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Author Topic: [1500 TH] p2pool: Decentralized, DoS-resistant, Hop-Proof pool  (Read 2570179 times)
windpath
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July 20, 2017, 07:45:04 PM
 #15561

BIP91 clients will blacklist certain blocks, and the current version of p2pool will ignore and violate that blacklisting

Since we are forking anyway would it not be cleaner for p2pool to do a simple version check on blocks it receives from other p2pool nodes, or would further validation be required?
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TierNolan
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July 20, 2017, 07:59:09 PM
 #15562

The point I was trying to make is that btc1 and other BIP91 clients will blacklist certain blocks, and the current version of p2pool will ignore and violate that blacklisting. This needs to be fixed. P2pool should not assume that blocks that it hears about over the network and not via bitcoind are valid when chainsplits are occurring.

I guess it is an inherent part of p2pool that you trust the other miners aren't throwing their hashing power away.

Quote
Basically, the tip that p2pool sees will often be the wrong tip. P2pool needs to trust its bitcoind for the next month.

Well if bitcoind is core, then it is "wrong" since it is not checking the new soft-forking rule.

No matter what side someone is on the debate, miners need to update to the latest locked-in soft fork or they can lose money.

Assuming that 20% of the mining power is not segwit2x compatible, then for about 1 in 5 blocks, non-btc1 clients will be on an invalid tip.

If only 50% of p2pool miners are updated, then that represents a pool efficiency drop of around 10%.

What will likely happen is that most miners will quickly become compatible, if 95% of miners are compatible, then only 1 in 20 blocks will have a problem.  That means that the efficiency cost (assuming 50% updated) is only a 2.5% and is probably not worth the hassle.

I think producing empty blocks if the node is trying to build on a non-BIP91 chain is reasonable and would virtually eliminate the efficiency cost (but mean no transactions).

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July 20, 2017, 08:52:18 PM
 #15563

A lot of this discussion may be a non-event now. Since the BIP91 support is overwhelming now, the chance of the network being partitioned is getting smaller by the minute. Very shortly even those pools that haven't been supporting BIP91 will reluctantly convert to the code to avoid having their blocks being orphaned. In which case there really will only be segwit compatible blocks generated once BIP91 being activated except for some very small minority miners that may not have updated. If p2pool runs BIP141 segwit compatible that will likely be enough to avoid building on a dead end chain because it looks like there won't be any dead end chain...

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July 20, 2017, 11:36:52 PM
 #15564

Since we are forking anyway would it not be cleaner for p2pool to do a simple version check on blocks it receives from other p2pool nodes, or would further validation be required?
It's not a simple version check for p2pool, unfortunately, because the duration of the version check is very specific, and it requires a copy of the blockchain (which p2pool does not have) in order to know what that duration is.

-ck, the question is whether p2pool should allow BIP91-incompatible shares, not blocks. I'm fine with people mining BIP91-incompatible blocks if they want to, but it's not clear that they should get rewarded by other p2poolers for their folly.

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TierNolan
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July 21, 2017, 11:36:19 AM
 #15565

If p2pool runs BIP141 segwit compatible that will likely be enough to avoid building on a dead end chain because it looks like there won't be any dead end chain...

Ironically, the problem is that bitcoin-core doesn't reject blocks that don't flag segwit.  That means that p2pool miners who are using core will build on the wrong block whenever a non-segwit block is found.

If p2pool built empty blocks when bitcoind is building on a non-segwit block, then almost all the inefficiency goes away.

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July 21, 2017, 10:17:45 PM
 #15566

If p2pool runs BIP141 segwit compatible that will likely be enough to avoid building on a dead end chain because it looks like there won't be any dead end chain...

Ironically, the problem is that bitcoin-core doesn't reject blocks that don't flag segwit.  That means that p2pool miners who are using core will build on the wrong block whenever a non-segwit block is found.

If p2pool built empty blocks when bitcoind is building on a non-segwit block, then almost all the inefficiency goes away.
The thing is there is virtually no one left mining non-BIP91 (connectbtc and any solo miners out there who haven't changed as far as I can see) so you'd have to be ultra-unlucky to build on one block in 100 that isn't signalling segwit AND find a block. Possible, yes, but extremely unlikely. I think anyone left will probably change to signal segwit anyway before then.

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July 21, 2017, 10:31:08 PM
 #15567

The thing is there is virtually no one left mining non-BIP91

Xbt is showing SW + BIP91 = 99.3% so agreed the point is moot anyway.

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July 21, 2017, 11:37:27 PM
 #15568

The thing is there is virtually no one left mining non-BIP91

Xbt is showing SW + BIP91 = 99.3% so agreed the point is moot anyway.
Moot? No. It's not zero. Not likely, is not zero.

When you next find a block, if it's rejected because p2pool 'will' mine on invalid blocks, you know it's because no one fixed it.
Damn shame.

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July 22, 2017, 09:10:10 AM
Last edit: July 22, 2017, 02:52:56 PM by TierNolan
 #15569

When you next find a block, if it's rejected because p2pool 'will' mine on invalid blocks, you know it's because no one fixed it.
Damn shame.

Now that I think about it more, there are actually 3 percentages that matter.

1) Total miners who are signalling segwit (that is around 99.3%)
2) P2pool miners who are not signaling segwit
3) P2pool miners who are using non-BIP-91 compatible code

The cost of 3) depends on the 1).  If almost all blocks signal segwit then the fact that sometimes p2pool miners build on the wrong block doesn't have much effect.

2) is a direct cost.  If 80% of p2pool miners are flagging segwit, then 20% of the blocks that p2pool finds will be invalid.  In that case, mining on p2pool is like mining on a pool that has 20% fees (except that nobody actually gets the fees).

A rule that that marks shares that don't flag segwit as invalid would be justified.

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July 22, 2017, 10:26:18 AM
 #15570

why p2pool Miner dont set the segwit2x bit ?
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July 22, 2017, 12:09:35 PM
 #15571

BIP9 signaling (more than 95%) : http://bitcoin.sipa.be/versions.html





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July 23, 2017, 07:06:26 PM
 #15572

Hello,
I got a question regarding Bitcoin Core client. I would like to run full node, but I don't have disk space to hold whole blockchain. Right now my Bitcoin Core client is synchronizing, I enabled prune to 5120 MB. Will I be able to be full p2pool node with pruned client? Will I have incoming connections from other clients (I've opened port)? Will my node serve other nodes by providing them data of last 5GB of blocks data?
Thanks.

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July 23, 2017, 07:33:33 PM
 #15573

Hello,
I got a question regarding Bitcoin Core client. I would like to run full node, but I don't have disk space to hold whole blockchain. Right now my Bitcoin Core client is synchronizing, I enabled prune to 5120 MB. Will I be able to be full p2pool node with pruned client? Will I have incoming connections from other clients (I've opened port)? Will my node serve other nodes by providing them data of last 5GB of blocks data?
Thanks.

look it up
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1763613.0  Grin
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July 23, 2017, 08:57:17 PM
 #15574

Hello,
I got a question regarding Bitcoin Core client. I would like to run full node, but I don't have disk space to hold whole blockchain. Right now my Bitcoin Core client is synchronizing, I enabled prune to 5120 MB. Will I be able to be full p2pool node with pruned client? Will I have incoming connections from other clients (I've opened port)? Will my node serve other nodes by providing them data of last 5GB of blocks data?
Thanks.

look it up
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1763613.0  Grin

Thanks, I know about -datadir option already, I am always using it manually when running mode. And running node from external HDD is not an option.
Anyone knows about pruning does it affect node, can I run pruned node with p2pool and mining on it? Thanks.

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July 23, 2017, 09:20:00 PM
 #15575

Anyone knows about pruning does it affect node, can I run pruned node with p2pool and mining on it? Thanks.
You can run with a pruned blockchain https://github.com/p2pool/p2pool/issues/339
Do not pruned the blockchain less than 2 gigabytes.

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July 23, 2017, 10:23:01 PM
 #15576

Anyone knows about pruning does it affect node, can I run pruned node with p2pool and mining on it? Thanks.
You can run with a pruned blockchain https://github.com/p2pool/p2pool/issues/339
Do not pruned the blockchain less than 2 gigabytes.

Thanks! I am already downloading blockchain, will see how it goes:)

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July 25, 2017, 10:07:24 PM
 #15577

Leaving the ship.  Grin
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July 26, 2017, 12:03:48 AM
 #15578

Just a pass ...
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July 26, 2017, 01:14:38 AM
 #15579

How can I run p2pool in background? (linux version)
Have user interface?
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July 26, 2017, 01:28:33 AM
 #15580

How can I run p2pool in background? (linux version)
Have user interface?
screen

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