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Author Topic: [1500 TH] p2pool: Decentralized, DoS-resistant, Hop-Proof pool  (Read 2031558 times)
cabin
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February 16, 2012, 11:33:42 AM
 #781

That makes sense, tweaks would be needed for sure so that say the later transaction in a double spend attempt couldn't be included if a first transaction with that same amount has already made it into the share chain. Right now I guess the only transaction that is required and verified is the generation payout for all the shares.. a miner could in theory drop all others I imagine. And these tweaks might be incompatible with other goals like keeping the share size small.

But I do think there will be lot of demand for instant confirm mobile transactions.. and it would be nice to have some security on them for the time between 0 confirms and 1 confirm.

ten blocks one every 10 seconds and one block once every 100 seconds gives you exactly the same amount of security if the overall hash rate is the same.

That might be true if the blocks were chained together, with each one depending on the previous one.  But in P2Pool the share chain doesn't require this.  The transactions appearing in one share may or may not appear in the following share in the sharechain and it just doesn't matter.

So it's possible you see your transaction in a share in the sharechain, and then see 10 more shares follow it, each of which not containing your transaction.

All that seeing your transaction in a share tells you is that a miner somewhere has accepted your transaction into his pool and is trying to mine it at the moment.  It absolutely doesn't tell you that it will ever be successfully mined.

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stevegee58
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February 16, 2012, 12:00:41 PM
 #782

cgminer 2.2.6 works well for me,less rejects than 2.2.5

I'm a bit disappointed after trying p2pool for 24 hours but maybe my expectations are wrong.

I'm running the latest cgminer 2.2.6 as well as the latest p2pool and bitcoin clients.  Everything is set up correctly and the various programs are reporting being happy.  However I've only been paid 4 times.  Cgminer reports "accepted" about 2.5-3 times per minute (I'm running a single 6770).
While using deepbit I was being paid about 0.13 BTC/day.  On p2pool I seem to be making about 0.02 BTC/day.

The weird thing is that yesterday I was paid twice while I sat there watching after restarting everything.  Then after running all night there was nothing.

You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
Tittiez
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February 16, 2012, 12:02:10 PM
 #783

cgminer 2.2.6 works well for me,less rejects than 2.2.5

I'm a bit disappointed after trying p2pool for 24 hours but maybe my expectations are wrong.

I'm running the latest cgminer 2.2.6 as well as the latest p2pool and bitcoin clients.  Everything is set up correctly and the various programs are reporting being happy.  However I've only been paid 4 times.  Cgminer reports "accepted" about 2.5-3 times per minute (I'm running a single 6770).
While using deepbit I was being paid about 0.13 BTC/day.  On p2pool I seem to be making about 0.02 BTC/day.

The weird thing is that yesterday I was paid twice while I sat there watching after restarting everything.  Then after running all night there was nothing.
Wait till tomorrow, sometimes payments are late. Suddenly you will see one/two large payments hit your wallet.
thirdlight
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February 16, 2012, 12:09:20 PM
 #784

sometimes payments are late.
Huh
Payments are instant! Generated's take 120 confirmations to be spendable - nearly a day. Could it be that?

The weird thing is that yesterday I was paid twice while I sat there watching after restarting everything.  Then after running all night there was nothing.
There were 2 blocks found in 6 minutes around 2012-02-16 02:37. Does that match?
stevegee58
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February 16, 2012, 12:23:32 PM
 #785

sometimes payments are late.
Huh
Payments are instant! Generated's take 120 confirmations to be spendable - nearly a day. Could it be that?

The weird thing is that yesterday I was paid twice while I sat there watching after restarting everything.  Then after running all night there was nothing.
There were 2 blocks found in 6 minutes around 2012-02-16 02:37. Does that match?

My bitcoin client did instantly receive the few payments I was sent.  I know it takes a day for them to mature.

The 2 back to back payments were about 10PM east coast US time last night so that could very well be it.

BTW, I also had a bitcoin gui client crash yesterday.  Turns out I needed to use bitcoind to avoid a known crashing problem.

It sounds like I won't be getting the regular payments I'd grown used to with deepbit but on average I'll be making about the same.

Thanks for the help, I'll give it another 24 hours.

You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
Gabi
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February 16, 2012, 01:14:32 PM
 #786

sometimes payments are late.
Huh
Payments are instant! Generated's take 120 confirmations to be spendable - nearly a day. Could it be that?

The weird thing is that yesterday I was paid twice while I sat there watching after restarting everything.  Then after running all night there was nothing.
There were 2 blocks found in 6 minutes around 2012-02-16 02:37. Does that match?

My bitcoin client did instantly receive the few payments I was sent.  I know it takes a day for them to mature.

The 2 back to back payments were about 10PM east coast US time last night so that could very well be it.

BTW, I also had a bitcoin gui client crash yesterday.  Turns out I needed to use bitcoind to avoid a known crashing problem.

It sounds like I won't be getting the regular payments I'd grown used to with deepbit but on average I'll be making about the same.

Thanks for the help, I'll give it another 24 hours.
If you want to go back to pay 10% of your reward to deepbit, go.

If you want to stay here, you are welcome. Blocks will be found, eventually. And payments will come. After all that's the beauty of p2pool, no one can scam you.
thirdlight
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February 16, 2012, 01:18:07 PM
 #787

It sounds like I won't be getting the regular payments I'd grown used to with deepbit but on average I'll be making about the same.
Yep, that's it!  Smiley

Except you'll make slightly more as you'll also get your share of the transaction fees. And you won't be paying any fees. Oh, and you'll be eligible for the subsidies.
stevegee58
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February 16, 2012, 01:21:27 PM
 #788

Thanks for the feedback.  I kind of figured p2pool was more like solo mining than traditional pool mining.

Heck, I'll give it a week instead of 24 hours.  I understand that the variance is greater with this approach; I  just didn't have any idea how much it would be.  Now that I know I'll be more patient.

For anyone interested, here's my cgminer command line:

cgminer -o http://127.0.0.1:9332 -u xxx -p xxx --auto-gpu --gpu-engine 750-960 --gpu-memclock 250 --temp-target 80 --gpu-vddc 1.1 -g 1

Even though I set a high temperature limit of 80C, I generally run around 70C with my PC's case opened.  My clock ends up always at the max of 960.

BTW, since I'm using proportional at deepbit instead of PPS.  Prop has a much lower fee (3%) than PPS (10%)
I realize I'm something of a piker at 200 MH/sec so 3% fee doesn't really matter that much.  But I find this interesting at least.

You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
DeathAndTaxes
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February 16, 2012, 02:40:26 PM
 #789

Wait till tomorrow, sometimes payments are late. Suddenly you will see one/two large payments hit your wallet.

Payments can't be late.  They are included in the coinbase transaction of the block.  When block is published you are paid (of course you need to still wait 120 blocks to spend the funds).

If someone hasn't gotten paid:
a) no blocks have been found (you only get paid when blocks are found)
b) something wrong with the wallet (check blockchain.info to see if transactions are there)
c) something wrong with p2pool setup (maybe it is paying to a different address ?)
gnar1ta$
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February 16, 2012, 04:02:28 PM
 #790

Don't forget payout is similar to PPLNS.  It will take 24 hrs to build your share percentage in the the share chain. When I add a miner my payout per block will slowly increase for a day and then stabalize. The second 24 or 48 hours are a more accurate comparison for payouts.

Losing hundreds of Bitcoins with the best scammers in the business - BFL, Avalon, KNC, HashFast.
Prattler
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February 16, 2012, 08:14:11 PM
 #791

BTW, since I'm using proportional at deepbit instead of PPS.  Prop has a much lower fee (3%) than PPS (10%)

If you are not pool hopping and mining on deepbit proportional, you are getting LESS THAN 97%.
stevegee58
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February 16, 2012, 08:21:09 PM
 #792

BTW, since I'm using proportional at deepbit instead of PPS.  Prop has a much lower fee (3%) than PPS (10%)

If you are not pool hopping and mining on deepbit proportional, you are getting LESS THAN 97%.

Clearly being honest (i.e. not hopping) doesn't pay since everyone cheats, huh?.  A lonely feeling.

You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
breel
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February 16, 2012, 10:08:00 PM
 #793

Actually how do I use the "--address" option with merged mining?
Do I use a "," to separate them?

Thanks!
You can't specify an address for the merged chain (yet).  The merged mining still needs some work.  The address is currently fetched automatically via the RPC

Ok, so I have put the same wallet(s) on all my mining machines, hence they all use the same addresse(s).
Is that an ok workaround?

Thank you!

Why don't you just point all your miners to one p2pool merged mining instance?  I have 3 miners but only run one p2pool, bitcoind, and namecoind.
I thought of that, but if the main miner goes down, they will all follow which is not the best...
DeathAndTaxes
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Gerald Davis


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February 16, 2012, 10:09:32 PM
 #794

Actually how do I use the "--address" option with merged mining?
Do I use a "," to separate them?

Thanks!
You can't specify an address for the merged chain (yet).  The merged mining still needs some work.  The address is currently fetched automatically via the RPC

Ok, so I have put the same wallet(s) on all my mining machines, hence they all use the same addresse(s).
Is that an ok workaround?

Thank you!

Why don't you just point all your miners to one p2pool merged mining instance?  I have 3 miners but only run one p2pool, bitcoind, and namecoind.
I thought of that, but if the main miner goes down, they will all follow which is not the best...

Which is why you setup a backup pool:
a) another machine running a p2pool instance (makes more sense for a large hashing farm)
b) a public p2pool address
c) a conventional pool
breel
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February 16, 2012, 10:10:05 PM
 #795

If they are paying fees now, wouldn't switching to a negative fee pool like p2pool be reward enough?

Maybe if you can get their attention. Offering a signup fee and bonus specifically aimed at that group would likely generate more interest than what they may perceive as "yet another 100+% pool". If they were paying attention, they wouldnt be mining at those pools, so the trick will be to reach them somehow.

Moreover, someone mining at deepbit may be turned down after 1 day of mining at p2pool after receiving nothing or only  a fraction of that they are used to. If you can convince them to mine a week or so, then they might actually see for themselves.

Good call :/
breel
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February 16, 2012, 10:13:00 PM
 #796

Actually how do I use the "--address" option with merged mining?
Do I use a "," to separate them?

Thanks!
You can't specify an address for the merged chain (yet).  The merged mining still needs some work.  The address is currently fetched automatically via the RPC

Ok, so I have put the same wallet(s) on all my mining machines, hence they all use the same addresse(s).
Is that an ok workaround?

Thank you!

Why don't you just point all your miners to one p2pool merged mining instance?  I have 3 miners but only run one p2pool, bitcoind, and namecoind.

I thought of that, but if the main miner goes down, they will all follow which is not the best...

Which is why you setup a backup pool:
a) another machine running a p2pool instance (makes more sense for a large hashing farm)
b) a public p2pool address
c) a conventional pool
Fair enough

Thanks!
stevegee58
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February 16, 2012, 11:25:40 PM
 #797

Another noob question.  If I stop my miner or p2pool for a few minutes and start back up again do I lose anything beyond the lost few minutes of mining?

You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
DeathAndTaxes
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February 16, 2012, 11:26:40 PM
 #798

Another noob question.  If I stop my miner or p2pool for a few minutes and start back up again do I lose anything beyond the lost few minutes of mining?

Nope.  You get paid for work you complete, same as any other pool (or solo mining).
stevegee58
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February 16, 2012, 11:50:00 PM
 #799

Another noob question.  If I stop my miner or p2pool for a few minutes and start back up again do I lose anything beyond the lost few minutes of mining?

Nope.  You get paid for work you complete, same as any other pool (or solo mining).

I was asking because in the p2pool output there's a "shares" field that was 3 when I stopped it and went to 0 when I restarted.
I wasn't sure if it was just for that session or what.

You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
kano
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February 16, 2012, 11:52:21 PM
 #800

Another noob question.  If I stop my miner or p2pool for a few minutes and start back up again do I lose anything beyond the lost few minutes of mining?

Nope.  You get paid for work you complete, same as any other pool (or solo mining).
Except that the work you complete is currently roughly 500x more coarse than a normal pool
(and roughly 2760 times finer than solo mining)

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