[Closed]Avalon Chips - 0.081 BTC (Global+Escrow)-BATCH2 SECURED

[chanberg]

wow cant believe i missed the refund date by 2 days!~

was that refund policy of August 26th always in place?? from Alphahpc.com??

[acidu]

I, acidu, sell 12 chips to Taugeran, this is my payment adress 1FvZzqPfopsaB3nBmReGCsGFmjrYEN8Uef , after the transfer is complete I will come back with transaction detailes.

thank you

104 chips left 0.075 if you buy more than 10 pcs

[Taugeran]

I, acidu, sell 12 chips to Taugeran, this is my payment adress 1FvZzqPfopsaB3nBmReGCsGFmjrYEN8Uef , after the transfer is complete I will come back with transaction detailes.

thank you

104 chips left 0.075 if you buy more than 10 pcs

Sending address: 1NoS89H3Mr6U5CmP4VwWzU2318JEMxHL1
TransactionID: 0b7a94cfa13cee0427c56a41b46a73cff8500dec43755dc2662892c55a884583

Signed message in green:


I, Taugeran, at 5:28pm EST have sent 0.91 as payment to Acidu, in exchage for 12 chips from his batch 2 order.


Signature in red:

IGpFZQN0GelKm3WEvoL0foJd0L4WKMkby41KWK4OvJp6ZhOtjAYkEpb12KI/7QGMR1EPdjHpIf7inohxeX6Degg=

[acidu]

I, acidu, give 12 chips from my 116chips from batch2 t13hydra order, in exchange of 0.91 BTC to user Taugeran

transaction : 0b7a94cfa13cee0427c56a41b46a73cff8500dec43755dc2662892c55a884583

t13hydra please confirm this

[alchimista]

Hi Steve and thank you again for your kindness,
i'm selling 160 chips at 0.075/ea
could you please confirm i own 160 shares and that you will process the transaction?
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=282402.0

Thank you

EDIT:: seems like BitSyncom is talking about refunds.
I would start to talk about this: ROI is not possible anymore for me (price of electricity here is really high), and if Avalon gives us a full refund for all the chips, we could start a poll to see.

 

brb making refund form, I'm done with this.

We should start approaching this possibility, like steamboat.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=192916.msg3033196#msg3033196

[Plazma]

If we can get refund for chips from avalon. Are we getting refund for pcb also?

[baloo_kiev]

Hi Steve and thank you again for your kindness,
i'm selling 160 chips at 0.075/ea
could you please confirm i own 160 shares and that you will process the transaction?
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=282402.0

Thank you

EDIT:: seems like BitSyncom is talking about refunds.
I would start to talk about this: ROI is not possible anymore for me (price of electricity here is really high), and if Avalon gives us a full refund for all the chips, we could start a poll to see.

 

brb making refund form, I'm done with this.

We should start approaching this possibility, like steamboat.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=192916.msg3033196#msg3033196

First you were insolent enough to take advantage of t13hydra's mistake and ask for full PCB refund, despite knowing that at least part of the funds were already spent, and t13hydra refunds you with his own coins. Now you dare offering your chips at the price which will never make ROI, obviously looking for some newbie who can't do his own math.

I posted in this thread about 2 weeks ago saying I would really be happy if I could just get back the amount I spent. I guess many people in this group buy felt the same but no one was such a dick like you, requesting full refund.

Please show some respect for t13hydra and the community. Delete your message and fuck off.

[DobZombie]

I need a LIKE button...

[alchimista]

seems like BitSyncom is talking about refunds.
I would start to talk about this: ROI is not possible anymore for me (price of electricity here is really high), and if Avalon gives us a full refund for all the chips, we could start a poll to see.

 

brb making refund form, I'm done with this.

We should start approaching this possibility, like steamboat.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=192916.msg3033196#msg3033196

First you were insolent enough to take advantage of t13hydra's mistake and ask for full PCB refund, despite knowing that at least part of the funds were already spent, and t13hydra refunds you with his own coins. Now you dare offering your chips at the price which will never make ROI, obviously looking for some newbie who can't do his own math.

I posted in this thread about 2 weeks ago saying I would really be happy if I could just get back the amount I spent. I guess many people in this group buy felt the same but no one was such a dick like you, requesting full refund.

Please show some respect for t13hydra and the community. Delete your message and fuck off.

1. i choose to order the PCBs after i read the Terms of Service: i wouldn't buy a preorder without the chance to get a refund. I'm not having a profit from someone else errors, it's not insolent, and he told me a part of the funds were spent only after he gave me a refund. I can give back the spent part of my PCBs preorder to Steve, it's not a problem, he just didn't ask for this: but guess what? I'm still here and i'm not escaping with the "stolen refund".
2. i'm selling at 0.075 and you would ask 0.081.I started from 0.081 since i got the refund. I also tried some higher prices before, looking at others ppl pricing. I'm going down day by day. You should acknowledge yourself before writing. You don't know how many times i explained all the risks involved and all the facts about Avalon chips problems and group buys to newbs that didn't accept at the end: so don't throw shit at me without a reason. I couldn't be more honest with buyers.
3. maybe prices of electricity are not the same here and where you live: if you were in my shoes you would be aware that ROI is not possible anymore. Maybe it's better for everyone if we get a refund from BitSyncom. Maybe it's good news to hear that BitSyncom will (maybe) give refunds.
4. seems like you are so angry with me because i've got a refund. I asked for a refund because i'm not alone, and my friends asked me to try. Steve had the opportunity to prove he deserves our trust. So if you feel so uncomfortable why can't you focus about the real reasons? Why should you blame me instead of yourself?
5. please show some respect and be mature. And please explain the difference between: "get back the amount spent" and "requesting pcb refund + selling chips for less then you bought".

EDIT: I would like to share zefirs last announcement with you:

Update: Endgame

With ASICMINER today announcing blades for as low as 3.5BTC, it appeared that Avalon chips that do not mine today are not going to break even any more. While those blades went already out of stock after some hours, the new price for mining rig is officially set. Essentially this means that if Avalon does not ship the remaining chips fully within the next two weeks, they become worth less than their shipping costs.

Driven by this event, today I was flooded with refund requests that built up a queue of ~2000 chips. I do not expect any takers for this and it is realistic to assume that there will be no further refunds.


I am sad to admit that I do not believe in a fast and complete delivery of the remaining batches. This stopped to be a game the moment this group-buy alone funneled $500k to Avalon. Although we have only a small set of 'no BS rules', we still have a written commitment to deliver in time as part of the ToS. With so many community members taking a loss directly or indirectly through Avalon failing to meet their schedule, we (together with other customers) need to consider taking serious actions to end this tragedy.

At this stage our options are as follows:

• A. sit and wait
  That was my tactics so far, assuming that civilized and respectful behavior will ensure to get our chips as fast as possible. This in fact might have been the reason why so far our group-buy got more chips than others, at the same time with a delivery of one batch per month our last will arrive mid 2014 - ready for re-direction to the Bitcoin museum
• B. demand full refund
  The majority would be fine with getting their invested coins back and let this chapter pass into oblivion. According to Avolon's ToS, there will be no refunds. But if they really care about Bitcoin and its community and realize how much harm they caused to so many of us, they might consider playing fair and send us the coins back. This implies that you do not want your chips any more.
• C. negotiate for compensation
  While refunding all orders might exceed Avalon's capabilities, they might prefer offering a compensation in form of free chips or free upgrades to next-gen ones. This implies you would like continue dealing with Avalon.
• D. legal action
  Leave the polite arena and sue them into ground; make an example of them and put an end to the pre-order madness in Bitcoinland. This implies you are willing to throw more good money after the bad - for a very limited expectation. Your money would feed some poor lawyers and Avalon if needed will declare bankruptcy (they said they do not control the collected funds any more).

I personally will approach Avalon with options B and C for now and consider combining forces with other group-buy organizers for D if we do not hear back within a reasonable time-frame. If you have a different opinion you'd like to share, please do so either here or via PM.

So now, i really think we should start acting togheter, in all the group-buyers interest and also Steve's. We should make a poll or something, our orders are all in queue after zefir's, and they are already talking about this. Why wait even more?

Personally, i would try to talk togheter about a possible, also partial refund from avalon: we should then detract t13hydras expenses and split the rest between buyers.

Also: why is every single avalon chips group buy discussing refunds except for this one? It seems really strange to me.

[chanberg]

Im curious to see how many people on this board cancelled their orders... It would speed up the orders very quick if thats the case

[likeBTC]

Is there an assembly or usage for these chips?

[acidu]

yes... indeed it is interesting that in this thread we don`t hear anything about refounds... t13hydra... can you help us out here?

[marto74]

i want my chips sent to my assembler
I do not want a refund

[baloo_kiev]

1. i choose to order the PCBs after i read the Terms of Service: i wouldn't buy a preorder without the chance to get a refund. I'm not having a profit from someone else errors, it's not insolent, and he told me a part of the funds were spent only after he gave me a refund. I can give back the spent part of my PCBs preorder to Steve, it's not a problem, he just didn't ask for this: but guess what? I'm still here and i'm not escaping with the "stolen refund".
2. i'm selling at 0.075 and you would ask 0.081.I started from 0.081 since i got the refund. I also tried some higher prices before, looking at others ppl pricing. I'm going down day by day. You should acknowledge yourself before writing. You don't know how many times i explained all the risks involved and all the facts about Avalon chips problems and group buys to newbs that didn't accept at the end: so don't throw shit at me without a reason. I couldn't be more honest with buyers.
3. maybe prices of electricity are not the same here and where you live: if you were in my shoes you would be aware that ROI is not possible anymore. Maybe it's better for everyone if we get a refund from BitSyncom. Maybe it's good news to hear that BitSyncom will (maybe) give refunds.
4. seems like you are so angry with me because i've got a refund. I asked for a refund because i'm not alone, and my friends asked me to try. Steve had the opportunity to prove he deserves our trust. So if you feel so uncomfortable why can't you focus about the real reasons? Why should you blame me instead of yourself?
5. please show some respect and be mature. And please explain the difference between: "get back the amount spent" and "requesting pcb refund + selling chips for less then you bought".

1. Apart from what the TOS say, you must understand that Steve put a lot of funds and time into this and he probably can't refund everyone without losing really much, more than anyone. Just look at burnin who refunds 50% and no more.
3. At this price chips won't be profitable even with free electricity.
4. So to deserve your trust, Steve had to refund you at his own costs?
5. The difference is instead of requesting refund I first asked Steve (posted ITT) if there were any unspent coins/fiat, so we can get back at least anything. Then I said I "would be happy to get back what I spent" meaning "that would be the most optimistic case" because someone implied that devices (with second batch chips) could still be profitable. I didn't request a refund, and if I did I would never mean FULL refund.

[alchimista]

1. i choose to order the PCBs after i read the Terms of Service: i wouldn't buy a preorder without the chance to get a refund. I'm not having a profit from someone else errors, it's not insolent, and he told me a part of the funds were spent only after he gave me a refund. I can give back the spent part of my PCBs preorder to Steve, it's not a problem, he just didn't ask for this: but guess what? I'm still here and i'm not escaping with the "stolen refund".
2. i'm selling at 0.075 and you would ask 0.081.I started from 0.081 since i got the refund. I also tried some higher prices before, looking at others ppl pricing. I'm going down day by day. You should acknowledge yourself before writing. You don't know how many times i explained all the risks involved and all the facts about Avalon chips problems and group buys to newbs that didn't accept at the end: so don't throw shit at me without a reason. I couldn't be more honest with buyers.
3. maybe prices of electricity are not the same here and where you live: if you were in my shoes you would be aware that ROI is not possible anymore. Maybe it's better for everyone if we get a refund from BitSyncom. Maybe it's good news to hear that BitSyncom will (maybe) give refunds.
4. seems like you are so angry with me because i've got a refund. I asked for a refund because i'm not alone, and my friends asked me to try. Steve had the opportunity to prove he deserves our trust. So if you feel so uncomfortable why can't you focus about the real reasons? Why should you blame me instead of yourself?
5. please show some respect and be mature. And please explain the difference between: "get back the amount spent" and "requesting pcb refund + selling chips for less then you bought".

1. Apart from what the TOS say, you must understand that Steve put a lot of funds and time into this and he probably can't refund everyone without losing really much, more than anyone. Just look at burnin who refunds 50% and no more.
3. At this price chips won't be profitable even with free electricity.
4. So to deserve your trust, Steve had to refund you at his own costs?
5. The difference is instead of requesting refund I first asked Steve (posted ITT) if there were any unspent coins/fiat, so we can get back at least anything. Then I said I "would be happy to get back what I spent" meaning "that would be the most optimistic case" because someone implied that devices (with second batch chips) could still be profitable. I didn't request a refund, and if I did I would never mean FULL refund.

I'm sorry, it's my mistake. Apart from website and some prototypes, i thought he didn't order any unit already, not even parts until there was a final release by Bkkcoins / tracking number from bitsyncom. So i didn't calculate the costs for t13hydra, and maybe posting tos was not too kind, but i'm pretty sure i would have accepted a partial refund.

I think we should now concentrate in evaluating the amount of loss from of a possible refund of chips and pcbs and then ask all the buyers. I will also give my part back.

[skrubalov]

I am with marto on this one:
I want my chips sent to my assembler.
I do not want a refund.

[acidu]

I am with marto on this one:
I want my chips sent to my assembler.
I do not want a refund.

can you explain why?

do you have a method and you will see ROI ?

do you know something that we do not know?

- or is more like curiosity... to see the PCB populated and up and running knowing that you will NEVER get your invested money back... and talking about profit is useless

[DobZombie]

I am with marto on this one:
I want my chips sent to my assembler.
I do not want a refund.

can you explain why?

do you have a method and you will see ROI ?

do you know something that we do not know?

- or is more like curiosity... to see the PCB populated and up and running knowing that you will NEVER get your invested money back... and talking about profit is useless

Like scrub a lot, I want the miners I paid for.  I don't give a shit about so called "ROI"

If I can wait 13 months for butterfly labs, I can wait 3 months for this project.

If I had been worried about ROI I wouldn't have made $20k when the BTC price jumped up.

And yeah, some of us hardened miners do know something you don't ...

O.o

[acidu]

I am with marto on this one:
I want my chips sent to my assembler.
I do not want a refund.

can you explain why?

do you have a method and you will see ROI ?

do you know something that we do not know?

- or is more like curiosity... to see the PCB populated and up and running knowing that you will NEVER get your invested money back... and talking about profit is useless

Like scrub a lot, I want the miners I paid for.  I don't give a shit about so called "ROI"

If I can wait 13 months for butterfly labs, I can wait 3 months for this project.

If I had been worried about ROI I wouldn't have made $20k when the BTC price jumped up.

And yeah, some of us hardened miners do know something you don't ...

O.o

interesting... so it is something more like a hobby now:))

Ok

[c-tek]

I am with marto on this one:
I want my chips sent to my assembler.
I do not want a refund.

can you explain why?

do you have a method and you will see ROI ?

do you know something that we do not know?

- or is more like curiosity... to see the PCB populated and up and running knowing that you will NEVER get your invested money back... and talking about profit is useless

Like scrub a lot, I want the miners I paid for.  I don't give a shit about so called "ROI"

If I can wait 13 months for butterfly labs, I can wait 3 months for this project.

If I had been worried about ROI I wouldn't have made $20k when the BTC price jumped up.

And yeah, some of us hardened miners do know something you don't ...

O.o

interesting... so it is something more like a hobby now:))

Ok

I don't think that we have to justify why we are doing this. If you decide to keep your placed orders it's up to you. Nobody should point fingers based on our reasons.