[ANN] [SUMO] SUMOKOIN - 🔏 Digital Cash For Highly-Confidential Transactions 🔏

[visdude]

These proposed "smart" implementations are nice and cool albeit geek stuff. However, it's pointless to have them if the primary use case (i.e. functioning as cash) is not allowed to gain a foothold first and foremost. Transacting with (fiat) cash is easily accomplished P2P (person-to-person) and "on the go" by simply handing over physical notes to someone in exchange for goods/services or in conducting other forms of trading. Unfortunately, we can't do the same with cryptos. The closest thing would be to utilize a device that most (if not all) people already carry with them all the time -- mobile phones. In fact, we already transact with fiat currencies through these devices nowadays.

I hope the devs will not lose focus and deploy first and foremost the tools/apps that matter at this stage which are:

1. a simple, reliable, secure and private mobile wallet that connects to a trusted and secure node by default (for user friendliness out of the box) with an option to connect to a private node running at home or other locations that the user has control over (for advanced/paranoid users)

2. GUI cold wallet/offline signing implementation so that users don't start losing their stash while in the process of accumulating tokens.

Smart features could then follow thereafter...when Sumo will have achieved a relative degree of mass adoption. Otherwise, it will just be another speculative blockchain-based token like everything else before it (hopefully the devs have learned this lesson). Believe it or not, BTC's value/market cap is still largely fueled by speculation after eight years running and not by its touted primary use case which is as cash or cash-like. Which businesses/sevices/goods can you pay with BTC on a day to day basis to date?

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[billaue]

These proposed "smart" implementations are nice and cool albeit geek stuff. However, it's pointless to have them if the primary use case (i.e. functioning as cash) is not allowed to gain a foothold first and foremost. Transacting with (fiat) cash is easily accomplished P2P (person-to-person) and "on the go" by simply handing over physical notes to someone in exchange for goods/services or in conducting other forms of trading. Unfortunately, we can't do the same with cryptos. The closest thing would be to utilize a device that most (if not all) people already carry with them all the time -- mobile phones. In fact, we already transact with fiat currencies through these devices nowadays.

I hope the devs will not lose focus and deploy first and foremost the tools/apps that matter at this stage which are:

1. a simple, reliable, secure and private mobile wallet that connects to a trusted and secure node by default (for user friendliness out of the box) with an option to connect to a private node running at home or other locations that the user has control over (for advanced/paranoid users)

2. GUI cold wallet/offline signing implementation so that users don't start losing their stash while in the process of accumulating tokens.

Smart features could then follow thereafter...when Sumo will have achieved a relative degree of mass adoption. Otherwise, it will just be another speculative blockchain-based token like everything else before it (hopefully the devs have learned this lesson). Believe it or not, BTC's value/market cap is still largely fueled by speculation after eight years running and not by its touted primary use case which is as cash or cash-like. Which businesses/sevices/goods can you pay with BTC on a day to day basis to date?

1. Lite/mobile wallets are our priority at next stage.

2. GUI cold wallet signed/transfer will be implemented very soon.

Thanks for input.

However, I think a "view only" password can be a good feature that you can enter to view balance, txs and keep master password safe, how do you think?

We may have an option to create and run view-only wallet along with true wallet though it may make thing a bit complicated for management. We'll have to discuss this.

[syncmaster913n]

Hi Sumoshi, thanks for replying.

Here are some arguments just cross to my mind, pls debate:

1. Emergency Withdrawal: I'm not sure what context for someone to use the "fake" password? In a raid? And in this case when it become a standard feature, true password and second wallet will be revealed one way or another, right?

This is generally called "plausible deniability". It's something found in cryptographic software such as the old TrueCrypt and I think also VeraCrypt, where you can create a hidden partition on your drive and have a special way for accessing it, while also having a "fake" partition to which you give the password in case of interrogation. It's a very popular concept among people who value their privacy and are afraid of government or other type of prosecution. The concept of plausible deniability is as follows:

1) You are asked by government representatives to divulge your password.
2) If you say "no I won't", you are prosecuted for not co-operating.
3) But if you give them a "fake" password, and the money is automatically transferred out of the wallet when the fake password is used (perhaps leaving behind a few SUMO to make it look more real, but transferring out like 99.9% of the balance - up to debate), you have officially complied with the law.
4) Since the "Fake password" feature would be completely optional, no one can prove that you had it enabled. You have officially complied with the law (ie. no one can say that you did not co-operate), but your funds are safe. This is "plausible deniability": you have complied with the law (because no one will believe you if you just say "I forgot the password"), but at the same time you have not compromised your SUMO.

It also cannot prevent keylogger if you use the true password every time to access your wallet. However, I think a "view only" password can be a good feature that you can enter to view balance, txs and keep master password safe, how do you think?

You are right, the fake password would not help against keyloggers; the fake password can only help in the scenario described above. What can potentially help against keyloggers (I'm not a developer, so correct me if any of my logic here is incorrect) is the other part I mentioned, which is the "puzzle" that needs solving. Essentially it would be like two-factor authentication for your wallet, with emergency withdrawal built-in. So basically:

1) You can (optionally, or by default - up for debate) enable two-factor authentication for your wallet.
2) With 2FA enabled, you would not only need to enter your regular pass phrase to access the wallet, but also an additional 3 or 4 digit PIN that you have to enter before logging in. The PIN does not give you access to the wallet and it has no way of decrypting the wallet. The PIN is only an extra check.
3) You enter the PIN with your mouse, and the PIN numbers are shuffled, so in case a keylogger registers on-screen click locations, it won't know which PIN digits you clicked (I'm sure this can be by-passed, but the idea is to make it much harder, not impossible).
4) After entering the PIN with your mouse, you enter your regular wallet pass-phrase, which decrypts your wallet. At this point, a check is performed to see if the PIN entered before is correct.
5) If the PIN is correct, you have regular access to your wallet. If the PIN was incorrect, emergency withdrawal to a secondary wallet is initiated automatically.

I hope this makes it clear. Again, I don't know if this can be done on the blockchain, so please let me know.

Also, the idea for a "view only" password is very cool, too.

2. Escrow Contract: If I got it correctly, it should be a kind of smartcontract (any third-party involved is out of our scope). I don't think we can tackle to such topic anytime soon.

I understand, thanks. This feature can be disregarded then.

3. Risk Management Feature: First, pls note that sending coins to other wallets means merchants have to pay fees. Second, I'm not sure if merchants really wants the feature without actual use cases and proper surveys.

Good point about the fees. This feature is probably the least useful, so I think it can be discarded as well. One point I'd like to make though is that surveys are not always a good idea (sometimes they are horrible). People often don't have a clue what they want to use. If you had surveyed people in 2008 whether they wanted something like Bitcoin to exist and whether they would buy it, probably every single one would say "no" except for a few geeks. Surveys are good in some situations when for example you want to change something that already exists and which people are using. But when introducing completely new features/technology, I think surveys can often be counter-productive. Plus, people sometimes naturally find new uses for features, other than the original use the feature was intended for, making surveys even more tricky. This is just a general observation, not relating to the Risk Management Feature (I agree this feature probably has no real use cases.)

[billaue]

1. I don't think any fake password is workable in such cases and we don't intend to design a wallet for that specifically.

2. 2FA, in the contrast, is completely feasible and we have plan to incorporate it to the GUI wallet in some future release. We'll study other wallets for proper implementation.

Thanks for all suggestions @syncmaster913n

[syncmaster913n]

These proposed "smart" implementations are nice and cool albeit geek stuff. However, it's pointless to have them if the primary use case (i.e. functioning as cash) is not allowed to gain a foothold first and foremost.

Yes, the idea was never for these suggested features to supersede nor be prioritized over the more fundamental features that you referred to in your post. The goal is to get some brainstorming going for additional features that can be added once the current dev roadmap goals are achieved.

Smart features could then follow thereafter...when Sumo will have achieved a relative degree of mass adoption.

I disagree, however, that smart features need to wait until a relative degree of mass adoption is achieved. I think cryptocurrencies are at a point where mass adoption will be easier to achieve if we can first convince the merchants to accept them, rather than try to convince users to buy with them. The latter of course would be preferrable, but it would take a long, long time. Mobile wallets and the other features you referred to, and which the dev's are working on right now, are extremely important for making use easier. But even if everyone wanted to pay using SUMO, it won't matter if the merchants don't trust that their coins will be safe in their wallet; they just won't accept any payments that way or, in a best case scenarion, they will accept payments but with a substantial additional fee applied on top of what they would regularly charge when using other, safer payment methods.

Ease-of-use features and safety features must go hand in hand in my opinion. We can convince thousands of people to use SUMO for payment, but it won't matter if no merchants feel confident enough to accept it. Convince 10 merchants to use sumo, on the other hand, and you automatically raise awareness of the coin and expose it to thousands or tens of thousands of potential buyers - at which point ease-of-use features would become critical if the users are to use the coin, so they must be ready.

[syncmaster913n]

1. I don't think any fake password is workable in such cases and we don't intend to design a wallet for that specifically.

2. 2FA, in the contrast, is completely feasible and we have plan to incorporate it to the GUI wallet in some future release. We'll study other wallets for proper implementation.

Thanks for all suggestions @syncmaster913n

Great, thanks! So we have two potential features:

1) Two-factor authentication for the wallet
2) A "view only" password that allows you to view your balance without being able to make any transactions (as suggested by Sumoshi).

Sounds good.

[syncmaster913n]

For anyone interested, designers are currently working on a more professional version of the SUMO logo in the Telegram. If you'd like to share your comments and ideas on what the logo should look like, or if you'd like to vote on the proposed designs, feel free to join.

[Madinvestor]

Every opinion would be gladly appreciated so feel free to join telegram right here https://t.me/joinchat/F8RH2kPmFCnA-igHBKSCAA

[Neurolicious]

Anyone mining Sumokoin? Is it profitable?

[Germining]

Anyone mining Sumokoin? Is it profitable?

Sure it is. But since the diff is high already, I would mine and buy some on cryptopia. That is what I did/do.

[CTTE]

So, I have an issue running the GUI wallet. It starts up, starts to sync and then the transparent window stating it may take a long time to sync NEVER closes even though the screens behind that one shows the sync is complete.

Any help would be appreciated.

[Madinvestor]

So, I have an issue running the GUI wallet. It starts up, starts to sync and then the transparent window stating it may take a long time to sync NEVER closes even though the screens behind that one shows the sync is complete.

Any help would be appreciated.

Join Telegram, Bill Aue will help you as soon as he sees your message. Are you on Mac ? Maybe I could help, I never had a issue yet

[Germining]

So, I have an issue running the GUI wallet. It starts up, starts to sync and then the transparent window stating it may take a long time to sync NEVER closes even though the screens behind that one shows the sync is complete.

Any help would be appreciated.

Come to the telegram-chat and ask Bill. If you hope for help here, tell us your OS etc....

[CTTE]

So, I have an issue running the GUI wallet. It starts up, starts to sync and then the transparent window stating it may take a long time to sync NEVER closes even though the screens behind that one shows the sync is complete.

Any help would be appreciated.

Come to the telegram-chat and ask Bill. If you hope for help here, tell us your OS etc....

I initially loaded it onto an older server I have with Win2008R2 SP1 64bit...  but I've had the same issue on a Win7 64bit box.

[visdude]

These proposed "smart" implementations are nice and cool albeit geek stuff. However, it's pointless to have them if the primary use case (i.e. functioning as cash) is not allowed to gain a foothold first and foremost.

Yes, the idea was never for these suggested features to supersede nor be prioritized over the more fundamental features that you referred to in your post. The goal is to get some brainstorming going for additional features that can be added once the current dev roadmap goals are achieved.

Smart features could then follow thereafter...when Sumo will have achieved a relative degree of mass adoption.

I disagree, however, that smart features need to wait until a relative degree of mass adoption is achieved. I think cryptocurrencies are at a point where mass adoption will be easier to achieve if we can first convince the merchants to accept them, rather than try to convince users to buy with them. The latter of course would be preferrable, but it would take a long, long time. Mobile wallets and the other features you referred to, and which the dev's are working on right now, are extremely important for making use easier. But even if everyone wanted to pay using SUMO, it won't matter if the merchants don't trust that their coins will be safe in their wallet; they just won't accept any payments that way or, in a best case scenarion, they will accept payments but with a substantial additional fee applied on top of what they would regularly charge when using other, safer payment methods.

Ease-of-use features and safety features must go hand in hand in my opinion. We can convince thousands of people to use SUMO for payment, but it won't matter if no merchants feel confident enough to accept it. Convince 10 merchants to use sumo, on the other hand, and you automatically raise awareness of the coin and expose it to thousands or tens of thousands of potential buyers - at which point ease-of-use features would become critical if the users are to use the coin, so they must be ready.

Seriously? "Fake wallet/password"? What kind of cockamamie, spaced-out/space cadet concept is that? Have the top cryptos implemented such absurdity? Implementing an absurd feature that sounds cool for the sake of being cool and different does not really make it cool nor practical. If anything, I think you personally like to implement such a feature (if you can even call it that) in order to be able to skirt the law/buck the system ("plausible deniability"...) based on your argument above in favor of it.

[sumogr]

These proposed "smart" implementations are nice and cool albeit geek stuff. However, it's pointless to have them if the primary use case (i.e. functioning as cash) is not allowed to gain a foothold first and foremost.

Yes, the idea was never for these suggested features to supersede nor be prioritized over the more fundamental features that you referred to in your post. The goal is to get some brainstorming going for additional features that can be added once the current dev roadmap goals are achieved.

Smart features could then follow thereafter...when Sumo will have achieved a relative degree of mass adoption.

I disagree, however, that smart features need to wait until a relative degree of mass adoption is achieved. I think cryptocurrencies are at a point where mass adoption will be easier to achieve if we can first convince the merchants to accept them, rather than try to convince users to buy with them. The latter of course would be preferrable, but it would take a long, long time. Mobile wallets and the other features you referred to, and which the dev's are working on right now, are extremely important for making use easier. But even if everyone wanted to pay using SUMO, it won't matter if the merchants don't trust that their coins will be safe in their wallet; they just won't accept any payments that way or, in a best case scenarion, they will accept payments but with a substantial additional fee applied on top of what they would regularly charge when using other, safer payment methods.

Ease-of-use features and safety features must go hand in hand in my opinion. We can convince thousands of people to use SUMO for payment, but it won't matter if no merchants feel confident enough to accept it. Convince 10 merchants to use sumo, on the other hand, and you automatically raise awareness of the coin and expose it to thousands or tens of thousands of potential buyers - at which point ease-of-use features would become critical if the users are to use the coin, so they must be ready.

Seriously? "Fake wallet/password"? What kind of cockamamie, spaced-out/space cadet concept is that? Have the top cryptos implemented such absurdity? Implementing an absurd feature that sounds cool for the sake of being cool and different does not really make it cool nor practical. If anything, I think you personally like to implement such a feature (if you can even call it that) in order to be able to skirt the law/buck the system ("plausible deniability"...) based on your argument above in favor of it.

  Chill out dude. He was just throwing ideas. No need to be aggressive

[Germining]

These proposed "smart" implementations are nice and cool albeit geek stuff. However, it's pointless to have them if the primary use case (i.e. functioning as cash) is not allowed to gain a foothold first and foremost.

Yes, the idea was never for these suggested features to supersede nor be prioritized over the more fundamental features that you referred to in your post. The goal is to get some brainstorming going for additional features that can be added once the current dev roadmap goals are achieved.

Smart features could then follow thereafter...when Sumo will have achieved a relative degree of mass adoption.

I disagree, however, that smart features need to wait until a relative degree of mass adoption is achieved. I think cryptocurrencies are at a point where mass adoption will be easier to achieve if we can first convince the merchants to accept them, rather than try to convince users to buy with them. The latter of course would be preferrable, but it would take a long, long time. Mobile wallets and the other features you referred to, and which the dev's are working on right now, are extremely important for making use easier. But even if everyone wanted to pay using SUMO, it won't matter if the merchants don't trust that their coins will be safe in their wallet; they just won't accept any payments that way or, in a best case scenarion, they will accept payments but with a substantial additional fee applied on top of what they would regularly charge when using other, safer payment methods.

Ease-of-use features and safety features must go hand in hand in my opinion. We can convince thousands of people to use SUMO for payment, but it won't matter if no merchants feel confident enough to accept it. Convince 10 merchants to use sumo, on the other hand, and you automatically raise awareness of the coin and expose it to thousands or tens of thousands of potential buyers - at which point ease-of-use features would become critical if the users are to use the coin, so they must be ready.

Seriously? "Fake wallet/password"? What kind of cockamamie, spaced-out/space cadet concept is that? Have the top cryptos implemented such absurdity? Implementing an absurd feature that sounds cool for the sake of being cool and different does not really make it cool nor practical. If anything, I think you personally like to implement such a feature (if you can even call it that) in order to be able to skirt the law/buck the system ("plausible deniability"...) based on your argument above in favor of it.

  Chill out dude. He was just throwing ideas. No need to be aggressive

Still laughing about "cockamamie"  First time I saw someone use that word outside a tv-show

But back to topic: it is always good to be creativ! Let the people brainstorm ...

[Jaime Staples]

Hi, wanted to ask a question. Is there any advantages of ur currency other than privacy?

[visdude]

These proposed "smart" implementations are nice and cool albeit geek stuff. However, it's pointless to have them if the primary use case (i.e. functioning as cash) is not allowed to gain a foothold first and foremost.

Yes, the idea was never for these suggested features to supersede nor be prioritized over the more fundamental features that you referred to in your post. The goal is to get some brainstorming going for additional features that can be added once the current dev roadmap goals are achieved.

Smart features could then follow thereafter...when Sumo will have achieved a relative degree of mass adoption.

I disagree, however, that smart features need to wait until a relative degree of mass adoption is achieved. I think cryptocurrencies are at a point where mass adoption will be easier to achieve if we can first convince the merchants to accept them, rather than try to convince users to buy with them. The latter of course would be preferrable, but it would take a long, long time. Mobile wallets and the other features you referred to, and which the dev's are working on right now, are extremely important for making use easier. But even if everyone wanted to pay using SUMO, it won't matter if the merchants don't trust that their coins will be safe in their wallet; they just won't accept any payments that way or, in a best case scenarion, they will accept payments but with a substantial additional fee applied on top of what they would regularly charge when using other, safer payment methods.

Ease-of-use features and safety features must go hand in hand in my opinion. We can convince thousands of people to use SUMO for payment, but it won't matter if no merchants feel confident enough to accept it. Convince 10 merchants to use sumo, on the other hand, and you automatically raise awareness of the coin and expose it to thousands or tens of thousands of potential buyers - at which point ease-of-use features would become critical if the users are to use the coin, so they must be ready.

Seriously? "Fake wallet/password"? What kind of cockamamie, spaced-out/space cadet concept is that? Have the top cryptos implemented such absurdity? Implementing an absurd feature that sounds cool for the sake of being cool and different does not really make it cool nor practical. If anything, I think you personally like to implement such a feature (if you can even call it that) in order to be able to skirt the law/buck the system ("plausible deniability"...) based on your argument above in favor of it.

  Chill out dude. He was just throwing ideas. No need to be aggressive

My statement is a matter of fact and stating the obvious though in a rhetorical manner. Why is that aggressive? Or are you just getting defensive because I called out such absurdity? And why are you speaking for him? Are you his lawyer?

Absurd/silly ideas need to get shut down right off the bat (before it gets a foothold and drag on) to make room for sound and worthy ones. That said, please continue brainstorming. However, always keep in mind to not put the cart before the horse while in the process.

[ttookk]

These proposed "smart" implementations are nice and cool albeit geek stuff. However, it's pointless to have them if the primary use case (i.e. functioning as cash) is not allowed to gain a foothold first and foremost.

Yes, the idea was never for these suggested features to supersede nor be prioritized over the more fundamental features that you referred to in your post. The goal is to get some brainstorming going for additional features that can be added once the current dev roadmap goals are achieved.

Smart features could then follow thereafter...when Sumo will have achieved a relative degree of mass adoption.

I disagree, however, that smart features need to wait until a relative degree of mass adoption is achieved. I think cryptocurrencies are at a point where mass adoption will be easier to achieve if we can first convince the merchants to accept them, rather than try to convince users to buy with them. The latter of course would be preferrable, but it would take a long, long time. Mobile wallets and the other features you referred to, and which the dev's are working on right now, are extremely important for making use easier. But even if everyone wanted to pay using SUMO, it won't matter if the merchants don't trust that their coins will be safe in their wallet; they just won't accept any payments that way or, in a best case scenarion, they will accept payments but with a substantial additional fee applied on top of what they would regularly charge when using other, safer payment methods.

Ease-of-use features and safety features must go hand in hand in my opinion. We can convince thousands of people to use SUMO for payment, but it won't matter if no merchants feel confident enough to accept it. Convince 10 merchants to use sumo, on the other hand, and you automatically raise awareness of the coin and expose it to thousands or tens of thousands of potential buyers - at which point ease-of-use features would become critical if the users are to use the coin, so they must be ready.

Seriously? "Fake wallet/password"? What kind of cockamamie, spaced-out/space cadet concept is that? Have the top cryptos implemented such absurdity? Implementing an absurd feature that sounds cool for the sake of being cool and different does not really make it cool nor practical. If anything, I think you personally like to implement such a feature (if you can even call it that) in order to be able to skirt the law/buck the system ("plausible deniability"...) based on your argument above in favor of it.

  Chill out dude. He was just throwing ideas. No need to be aggressive

My statement is a matter of fact and stating the obvious though in a rhetorical manner. Why is that aggressive? Or are you just getting defensive because I called out such absurdity? And why are you speaking for him? Are you his lawyer?

Absurd/silly ideas need to get shut down right off the bat (before it gets a foothold and drag on) to make room for sound and worthy ones. That said, please continue brainstorming. However, always keep in mind to not put the cart before the horse while in the process.