If you aren't using atomic trading how can you possibly claim decentralized exchange? Otherwise parties can just double spend. There was no mention of double spend or atomic trade in the whitepaper please explain. Users can double spend by simply mining their own transactions. If you use an escrow account then it is not decentralized either because that allows a 2 of 3 collusion attack. And 2 of 2 accounts require microtrading. What protocol is being proposed here?
Thank you for this interesting question, i hope the answer will satisfy your demand.
The validator will be hosted on a decentralized distributed storage platform (SafeNetwork) which will provide a lot of possibilities to solve issues related to live and offline trading. As an example, using multisignature addresses doesn't means centralizing the process as it will be done by a user and a decentralized process hosted into a decentralized ecosystem.
As i said, it is just one of the many possible sollutions, as they are ranging from soft, to extreme degree.
You can also check this link :
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Atomic_cross-chain_tradingThere is an interesting solution to the atomic trading issues you talked about.
Rest assured that the team will never release a trading pair if they are not sure about the security of the process.
"Apollo777": Correct.
1. How do you plan to distribute dividends on Bitcoin/Counterparty network ?
Think about it for a moment. Assume 10,000 investors, means that you will need to do 10k Bitcoin transactions (and pay $20,000; $2/tx) just to distribute the dividends.
...When each transactions costs $2.
Maybe it's smarter to find a way to do it without relying on over-crowded Bitcoin network ? (based on Ethereum or Ethereum classic, or some other network)
After all there is a good reason why StorJ coins migrated from Bitcoin/Counterparty to Ethereum.
2. Double-spend attacks that "dzimbeck" mentioned
Another way to double-spend Bitcoin is to use zero-confirmation RBF - Request-by-Fee (and send transaction to self with a higher fee).
Bitcoin miners will pick-up a tx with higher fee, even if arrived *later*.
How do you plan to deal with it ?
A safe BTC transaction requires 6 confirmations, but I don't see how-to achieve it in this case of decentralized exchange.
Thanks for the question.
There is a section in the whitepaper who explains how this part will be handled, when you withdraw from poloniexw, or other similar services, they don't broadcast a trasaction right away. Instead, they group them, and send a single transaction. This is how the distribution is going to be processed and it can be done as long as the TX size is lower then the block size. From there, you can create a single transaction with several outputs and pay a marginal fee.
This is one of the situations where the validator is handy, because he will ensure that you won't attempt to realise such operations, as he will check (several times) the informations sent by the users and process them in order to allow a trading, and the usage of multisignatures, smart contracts, LN channels would be also a part of the sollution.
As i already sead, NVO doesn't want to compete against other decentralized exchanges, or centralized exchanges, NVO aims at using the technologies provided by the multiple blockchains to create an as safe as possible environment for trading, and to provide a multi crypto wallet with as much "functions" as possible while giving the possibility to its users to choose what function they want to include into their wallet.
Is this project uncapped? So from my understanding, when the ICO closes, 15M tokens will be distributed based on the % of your contribution to the funding pool.
Yes the project is uncaped, and there is no price for the NVOTokens, at the end of the crowdsale, the contributions will be calculated and evaluated, every participant will receive a proportional amount of NVOT.
Actually your answer does not satisfy my demand. You are asking for money and yet you don't understand the protocol you will be using nor were you able to answer. I've been a crypto dev for 4 years and coded BitHalo and BitBay. Just linking me to wiki about AT when I already know how to do AT with checklocktimeverify is not a sufficient answer.
There is only ONE way to do decentralized exchange between blockchains and that is atomic trading. It cannot be done without checklocktimeverify because of malleability.
Also 2 of 3 escrow like BitSquare is not decentralized because of simple theft and collusion in escrow.
2 of 2 with microtrading works like in BitHalo but it's tedious and expensive and unpopular.
So the only way is AT and it must have a web front end in JavaScript and no blockchain download to become popular.
You can't just launch a project and be like "give me money and I will build a decentralized exchange"
Sure man that's what everyone is doing right now and I'm getting tired of it. Make a full fledged decentralized exchange and then.launch a token. But your marketing whitepaper and response shows me you didn't have a specific protocol in mind to stop double spend and malleability
Like I said there is one way and to my knowledge Blocknet is the only coin doing it (maybe also Komodo)
Atomic trading
OK maybe you can build LN in every coin but that would be insane engineering costing millions or years
By the way when peoples money is on the line there is no such thing as "safe as possible given the tools in the coin" there is completely secure and not secure. It works or it can be hacked period.
It is the first post who is really perturbating me, especially when it comes from a legendary who says he is a developer, i think you are more a project reader then a developer, and then you come and speculate on projects.
I don't agree with you when you say "give me money and I will build a decentralized exchange", we are not scaming people and i don't tolerate such a lack of respect, and please don't try to minify the project saying the team isn't capable to deliver it.
Now let me answer as a developer, the one who will make the validator (for free, not to bother the development funds), as Yani will work on the wallet, and manage the development team, there will be another developer who will work on coins implementation, and another one for the API clusters, i own't disclose any information regarding because they are still not recruited, they will be paid hourly.
Yani will manage the development team, after the beta2 yani and i will work on the plugin system as it is also into my interest to build it, we will even deliver a plugin for coinpayment integration, it is an insider information but i think that most of the people knew about it.
Now let me talk as a developer and explain to you how your informations are restricted, as you are talking about have been done, and what is going to be done.
- OP codes manipulation is an option, and it may not be used. Because this is related to bitcoin only, and it would restrict NVO and would deprecate the plugin system.
- 2 OF 3 multisig addresses isn't an option at all as the two other participants could cheat on the validator, then the validator won't receive fees, and it is not in the interests of NVO.
- 2 Of 2, you are seeing it as like as you open a direct streem between A and B, which is useless because in the end, what will do the validator here ? in your case the Validator is what you call an Escrow even if it is not his main purpose. In the case of NVO, the 2 OF 2, i will try to explain it in the most way so that you can understand it :
A and B want to trade, A will create a 2-OF-2 with the validator, B will create a 2-OF-2 with the validator. Once the validator verifies the order informations are good, and the transactions are valid, he will issue the required redeem scripts.
The validator will be hosted on safenetwork, i wish a good luck to any hacker who wants to hack into it, or even find it into the safenetwork. Actually with your closed logic, it will take you up to a life or two, unless someone gives you the sollution but it would too late as you won't be able to use it again.
Do not say that you are a developer as long as you can't innovate, developer = innovation not stagnation.
- NVO isn't a blockchain, it is a multi function wallet, with a DEX built on the safenetwork. You can still check their website, with the help of the plugin system, NVO can be a payment processor.
- Now talking about having enough, and fledged DEX, and about marketing, i asked not to give too much details about the validator on the whitepaper, because i wanted to explain it myself, and to explain the phenomenous amount of possibilities offered by the validator and the plugin system, as if i had to explain exactly in details the validator, we would have to create a lot more whitepapers, as he answer to Two big issues about decentralized trading, double spending and offline trading.
For marketing and community reasons, i prefered to let people's toughts open, so that future project developers can innovate using the NVO plugin system and its validator, which will enrich much more the NVO project.
- I don't want to say bad things about komodo but personally i don't really see how it can be usefull. I don't want to insult these projects, but most of them recreates blockchains, this a difference that most of the people have troubles to understand, NVO isn't a blockchain, it is a project who USES blockchains, it integrates them and complete their services.
- I never said that we will create LN for each coins, i said that it would be usable in order to let people know what is the actual stage of developer, in case someone decides to create an LN DEX, and it wouldn't cost millions, nor years. And actually a lot of coins are already implementing their LN, you can check them.
-You know, even Bitcoin can be hacked in the future, everything is hackable, the technology is moving vary fast it is not frozen in 2017, there is no such "secure" system, and there will never be, even matrix (the movie) have been hacked.
To conclude, you gathered all the shits from the other projects and you throwd them here without even understanding the project, i would have appreciated if you asked me questions about NVO first, instead of throwing unrelated projects problems, and then you insult me even more when you say that i ask for people's money.
No longer insult me without real arguments.
