Evolution is a hoax

[Astargath]

This is as plausible as having a monkey sitting in front of a typewriter and ending up producing something useful.

Do you understand bitcoin blockchain technology sir?

Our entire commodity is based on our graphic cards hashing until they produce something useful...

How long do you want the string to be?  Even two or three "useful" short sentences could be created by the bitcoin network in under an hour.  It's all about math.

Produce trillions of generations, and you have Evolution.  

I'm married to Jennifer Lawrence.

I do understand blockchain technology, I am a software developer and I am about to start working on a blockchain technology project. I get your point, but keep in mind that the number of computations needed to compute a hash value that is "nice" enough to be considered canonical is incredibly large. Waiting for such a kind of brute force to pay off in nature would probably exceed the expected life span of the universe. And then there is not just one kind of animal out there but many, many of them. The whole thing looks a lot like someone hitting the lottery on a daily basis. Sure, this can happen but how likely is it?

Or even simpler: If nature was able to create an elephant out of dead matter via many steps of evolution, then why can't scientists reproduce these steps in a lab? A whole bunch of people with college degrees should be able to accomplish this, right?

If nature can create black holes why can't a bunch of scientists do it too? Do you realize how stupid your argument is right? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abiogenesis

It's not easy, that's why, not to mention that it took millions of years, why would you think science has advanced so far as to create living beings in just a few years?

[Astargath]

The theory of evolution is just a crazy attempt to explain what can hardly be explained. I am not religious at all, so I don't believe in a maker / creator or anything quite like that. But it is very hard to explain how all of the creatures on earth have happened to come about just by virtue of sun, rain, temperature, pressure or whatever else. Why has nobody ever witnessed the evolution at work? With that many creatures out there some of them should be turning into something else on a daily basis. The only aspect evolution explains nicely is the survival of the fittest. Everything else remains a big mystery to me. Even worse, nobody can explain how dead matter can be turned into something that is alive. I doubt anyone will ever succeed with this sort of experiment.

Talking out of your ass I see. If you truly know about the theory of evolution you would know that evolution takes a lot of time, hence why no one has observed evolution, although we have. The peppered moth and Live Birth in Three-toed Skinks are classic examples.

It is indeed hard to explain all of this, that's why evolution theory is still updating. There is abiogenesis which tries to explain non living matter to matter. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miller%E2%80%93Urey_experiment

Sure it is supposed to happen slowly, but this is easily offset by the very large number of different animals out there. I also checked out the "evidence". Doesn't convince me at all. I want to hear someone explain how an one-cell organism eventually turns into an elephant. This is as plausible as having a monkey sitting in front of a typewriter and ending up producing something useful.

That's a hard question just like non living matter to living matter. Science is still working on it, there are several proposed explanations for it but we can never know for sure what happened at every exact moment, obviously. I don't think you or badecker understand what evolution is about or what tries to do. It tries to explain the best it can how we got here and yes there are still gaps that need to be filled, we still don't know how many things happened exactly but we do have the proof to show that they happened.

You check the fossils of a horse and then you find other fossils like a horse but with something slightly different and you keep finding older fossils that are slightly different, now from one fossil to another the difference might not be huge but from 10 fossils the difference is huge. This obviously indicates that they evolved, what evolution theory tries to do is explain how they evolved.

And this is not the only evidence for evolution, not even close but if you want to know more, use google.

[mwinter]

This is as plausible as having a monkey sitting in front of a typewriter and ending up producing something useful.

Do you understand bitcoin blockchain technology sir?

Our entire commodity is based on our graphic cards hashing until they produce something useful...

How long do you want the string to be?  Even two or three "useful" short sentences could be created by the bitcoin network in under an hour.  It's all about math.

Produce trillions of generations, and you have Evolution.  

I'm married to Jennifer Lawrence.

I do understand blockchain technology, I am a software developer and I am about to start working on a blockchain technology project. I get your point, but keep in mind that the number of computations needed to compute a hash value that is "nice" enough to be considered canonical is incredibly large. Waiting for such a kind of brute force to pay off in nature would probably exceed the expected life span of the universe. And then there is not just one kind of animal out there but many, many of them. The whole thing looks a lot like someone hitting the lottery on a daily basis. Sure, this can happen but how likely is it?

Or even simpler: If nature was able to create an elephant out of dead matter via many steps of evolution, then why can't scientists reproduce these steps in a lab? A whole bunch of people with college degrees should be able to accomplish this, right?

If nature can create black holes why can't a bunch of scientists do it too? Do you realize how stupid your argument is right? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abiogenesis

It's not easy, that's why, not to mention that it took millions of years, why would you think science has advanced so far as to create living beings in just a few years?

But scientists sure know exactly how black holes come into existence. And this Abiogenesis stuff doesn't explain anything, if you ask me. It's pretty much like homeopathy, nothing but a whole bunch of unprovable nonsense. Evolution is basically the first attempt to explain why all that many creatures exist. It fails miserably, but at least Darwin tried. I got a feeling it might take a long time before someone comes up with a theory that can be taken seriously. It may take a major breakthrough, pretty much in the neighborhood of quantum physics. Right now we are stuck with about as lame an explanation as there could possibly be.

[Astargath]

This is as plausible as having a monkey sitting in front of a typewriter and ending up producing something useful.

Do you understand bitcoin blockchain technology sir?

Our entire commodity is based on our graphic cards hashing until they produce something useful...

How long do you want the string to be?  Even two or three "useful" short sentences could be created by the bitcoin network in under an hour.  It's all about math.

Produce trillions of generations, and you have Evolution.  

I'm married to Jennifer Lawrence.

I do understand blockchain technology, I am a software developer and I am about to start working on a blockchain technology project. I get your point, but keep in mind that the number of computations needed to compute a hash value that is "nice" enough to be considered canonical is incredibly large. Waiting for such a kind of brute force to pay off in nature would probably exceed the expected life span of the universe. And then there is not just one kind of animal out there but many, many of them. The whole thing looks a lot like someone hitting the lottery on a daily basis. Sure, this can happen but how likely is it?

Or even simpler: If nature was able to create an elephant out of dead matter via many steps of evolution, then why can't scientists reproduce these steps in a lab? A whole bunch of people with college degrees should be able to accomplish this, right?

If nature can create black holes why can't a bunch of scientists do it too? Do you realize how stupid your argument is right? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abiogenesis

It's not easy, that's why, not to mention that it took millions of years, why would you think science has advanced so far as to create living beings in just a few years?

But scientists sure know exactly how black holes come into existence. And this Abiogenesis stuff doesn't explain anything, if you ask me. It's pretty much like homeopathy, nothing but a whole bunch of unprovable nonsense. Evolution is basically the first attempt to explain why all that many creatures exist. It fails miserably, but at least Darwin tried. I got a feeling it might take a long time before someone comes up with a theory that can be taken seriously. It may take a major breakthrough, pretty much in the neighborhood of quantum physics. Right now we are stuck with about as lame an explanation as there could possibly be.

That's absolutely not true, scientists do not know exactly how black holes work, stop spreading bullshit. Why do you keep talking out of your ass? There are several ongoing experiments for abiogenesis, not ''unprovable nonsense'' https://newatlas.com/recreating-evolution-test-tube/48856/

And evolution is not about explaining how life started from non living matter but how it evolved and it doesn't fail whatsoever. Unless you have an argument for it.

[msuheb]

Why there are still monkeys around if they were part of our evolutionary beginnings ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cz0gFarCfBE

Completely agree... there are many such theories which we have studied in our school days but they are only a bubble... they have got no evidence to prove it...

[bernashka]

evolution is an extremely slow process. Millennia will pass before the evolutionary changes in slow-breeding and slow-growing animals, such as chimpanzees, become noticeable. But scientists have been watching the chimpanzee in nature for only a few decades. Even if these primates now really evolved, like our ancestors millennia ago, we simply would not be able to notice it.

[popcorn1]

The theory of evolution is just a crazy attempt to explain what can hardly be explained. I am not religious at all, so I don't believe in a maker / creator or anything quite like that. But it is very hard to explain how all of the creatures on earth have happened to come about just by virtue of sun, rain, temperature, pressure or whatever else. Why has nobody ever witnessed the evolution at work? With that many creatures out there some of them should be turning into something else on a daily basis. The only aspect evolution explains nicely is the survival of the fittest. Everything else remains a big mystery to me. Even worse, nobody can explain how dead matter can be turned into something that is alive. I doubt anyone will ever succeed with this sort of experiment.

Talking out of your ass I see. If you truly know about the theory of evolution you would know that evolution takes a lot of time, hence why no one has observed evolution, although we have. The peppered moth and Live Birth in Three-toed Skinks are classic examples.

It is indeed hard to explain all of this, that's why evolution theory is still updating. There is abiogenesis which tries to explain non living matter to matter. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miller%E2%80%93Urey_experiment

Sure it is supposed to happen slowly, but this is easily offset by the very large number of different animals out there. I also checked out the "evidence". Doesn't convince me at all. I want to hear someone explain how an one-cell organism eventually turns into an elephant. This is as plausible as having a monkey sitting in front of a typewriter and ending up producing something useful.

I want to hear someone explain how an one-cell organism eventually turns into an elephant..

one-cell organism eventually turns into an elephant ..It cannot turn into an elephant..

So now you know ..You might be a plant or a fungi to be with..

random events happen with cause and effect the fact the random event happened what caused it
and what is and was the effect..<<Randomness with cause and effect..

How do you know all the evidence could be at the bottom of the ocean..
Just got to wait for all the evidence off the scientist..

When you ask ?  the questions will always go on and on and on ..

BUT one day with DNA we will be able to trace right back to the start of any living thing we study..
DNA with super computers ..

[mwinter]

This is as plausible as having a monkey sitting in front of a typewriter and ending up producing something useful.

Do you understand bitcoin blockchain technology sir?

Our entire commodity is based on our graphic cards hashing until they produce something useful...

How long do you want the string to be?  Even two or three "useful" short sentences could be created by the bitcoin network in under an hour.  It's all about math.

Produce trillions of generations, and you have Evolution.  

I'm married to Jennifer Lawrence.

I do understand blockchain technology, I am a software developer and I am about to start working on a blockchain technology project. I get your point, but keep in mind that the number of computations needed to compute a hash value that is "nice" enough to be considered canonical is incredibly large. Waiting for such a kind of brute force to pay off in nature would probably exceed the expected life span of the universe. And then there is not just one kind of animal out there but many, many of them. The whole thing looks a lot like someone hitting the lottery on a daily basis. Sure, this can happen but how likely is it?

Or even simpler: If nature was able to create an elephant out of dead matter via many steps of evolution, then why can't scientists reproduce these steps in a lab? A whole bunch of people with college degrees should be able to accomplish this, right?

If nature can create black holes why can't a bunch of scientists do it too? Do you realize how stupid your argument is right? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abiogenesis

It's not easy, that's why, not to mention that it took millions of years, why would you think science has advanced so far as to create living beings in just a few years?

But scientists sure know exactly how black holes come into existence. And this Abiogenesis stuff doesn't explain anything, if you ask me. It's pretty much like homeopathy, nothing but a whole bunch of unprovable nonsense. Evolution is basically the first attempt to explain why all that many creatures exist. It fails miserably, but at least Darwin tried. I got a feeling it might take a long time before someone comes up with a theory that can be taken seriously. It may take a major breakthrough, pretty much in the neighborhood of quantum physics. Right now we are stuck with about as lame an explanation as there could possibly be.

That's absolutely not true, scientists do not know exactly how black holes work, stop spreading bullshit. Why do you keep talking out of your ass? There are several ongoing experiments for abiogenesis, not ''unprovable nonsense'' https://newatlas.com/recreating-evolution-test-tube/48856/

And evolution is not about explaining how life started from non living matter but how it evolved and it doesn't fail whatsoever. Unless you have an argument for it.

Man, you use some language, don't ya? Looks like evolution is your religion. I never claimed that evolution is about how life started out, I just said that this is an even greater mystery than how it evolved. As for black holes, there are not a lot of mysteries left. We even have computer simulations for these theories and if you run them, you end up with pretty much the same universe we can observe today. So these theories seem to work just fine, everything they predict can be verified, at least in a simulation. That's how it should work in science. Every so often something strange is observed and if the current theory can't explain this new observation, then it has to be updated or replaced. Quite easy.

The theory of evolution is currently the best we have, even though it is a very, very weak one. No experiment has ever been able to support it. If so, it would have been in the news big time. Sorry man if I have insulted your religion here, but this sort of theory simply doesn't cut it for me. I will accept this theory immediately if some scientists in a lab can do the following: Start out with a one-cell organism and turn it into something significantly more evolved, let's say an insect. Since evolution happens in nature, simply apply all forces of nature randomly to your life-form. You can choose from temperature changes, sunlight, pressure changes, magnetism, radiation and so forth. Maybe add some chemical substances as well. Do all of that randomly until you end up with an insect. For bonus points, turn it into a gorgeous elephant. If somebody manages to do this, then I immediately accept this theory as a reasonable one that explains the observable phenomena just fine. Up until then I will consider it to be a weak theory.

[Sturdy]

my opinion that evolution is a hoax, because my opinion of God created his creatures will not change shape like the theory of evolution, like chickens will still be a chicken.

[popcorn1]

DNA Test Can Trace Your Ancestral Origins Back 1,000 Years - D-brief
blogs.discovermagazine.com/.../dna-test-can-trace-your-ancestral-origins-back-1000-...
2 May 2014 - A new, highly accurate DNA test doesn't just pinpoint your country of origin, it can identify the village your ancestors lived in 1000 years ago. ... The new DNA test was over 80 percent successful in tracing people from around the world back to their ancestral origins. ... Able Lawrence • 3 years ago.

[popcorn1]

Parentage DNA tests, DNA profiles, genetic predispositions tests – you may have thought of these as being only applied to us humans. Advances in the field of genetic testing mean that todayanimal DNA testing is gaining popularity and is in high demand. On the whole, DNA between mammals is not too dissimilar especially in terms of structure and shape obviously the degree of similarity can be actually very close in related species.

As demands for the tests for our feline, equine, canine, and even bird friends increases, the number of tests available will also increase as more research is made into this new field. It is likely that in future, our reptile and arachnid friends will have DNA tests available to them..

In the future we will know many many more things OH BOY so much more..

Soon all the DNA from different species will be held on a super computer and the super computer
will work it out with all the information from all the DNA from plants to anything that's alive..

We will know one day how a human evolved from this earth..
BUT we evolved on this earth that's the FACT..<<EVOLUTION THEORIES ..

A human acts like a plant <<So a common effect what caused the plant what caused the human
same same ..

[BADecker]

I simply cannot believe this. This is again doubting and denying science. It is a proven fact that we're all related to each other.. Yes.. we're also related to a stupid tree.

all living organism on earth share the basic DNA. Thats a fact. So we did not come from heaven. But whatever, believe what you want if it helps you.

edit:

I'm not bullsh!tting on the bible or any religion. I don't believe in any religion - yes. But the bible, for instance, just describes the things as they knew it. Guys.. thats a long way from writing such books to nowadays understanding of life.

Simply Google "evolution is impossible" to see that there are lots of reasons why evolution is impossible.

All of foundational evolution theory is written like it was something you had to believe in to make it true. There are no concrete facts for evolution found by those who actually do the search for evolution. The evidence fits creation better. The few almost-facts for evolution, are things done in the lab, where scientists are the makers... not in nature where the whole thing comes about by natural means. No facts for evolution are found in nature.

On top of all that, cause and effect operates precisely according to the laws of physics. If there is anything that is pure randomness, we haven't found it for a fact. Yet evolution theory says that evolutionary changes are done by "random" mutations. This is exactly opposite of cause and effect which we see operating in millions or billions of things, or more.

Evolution is a cute idea that doesn't have any backing outside a lot of talk. In fact, it is the loads of talk that keeps evolution alive as a theory. There are no facts behind evolution. It is a story like any science fiction story, except that it is contributed to by multitudes of people. Evolution is a story that doesn't fit reality.

Because many of the proponents of evolution realize that they have no facts to back evolution up, and yet they keep on saying that evolution is true, evolution has become one of the greatest hoaxes around. Lay (non-scientific) people who believe these evolution proponents, are believers in a religion... the evolution religion.

Evolution is a hoax.

I already googled that and it didn't show anything:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1917510.msg27216030#msg27216030

''The evidence fits creation better.'' Literally all dating methods show that creation is false, you know, older than 6-10k thousand years old.
''If there is anything that is pure randomness, we haven't found it'' You claimed god is pure randomness, so you did find it.
Also pretty much all science dismisses the bible (creation) : https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Biblical_scientific_errors

You can google that as well since you like google so much, ''scientific errors in the bible'' There are plenty.

You fail to properly apply what I said regarding whatever it is that you Googled in that top link of yours.

There aren't any mistakes in the bible. There are only people (kinda like you) who twist the meanings of what is written in the Bible, to mean something that the Bible doesn't say.

The bible is 6k to 10k years old meaning that earth and the universe are just as old, however that has been proven wrong through dozens of different methods of dating, all showing that earth and the universe are far older.

The proof that the earth is older than the bible says - http://www.albatrus.org/english/theology/creation/biblical_age_earth.htm - is based on the same kinds of "ifs" that evolution is based on. The following example simply shows a form of guessing the age of the earth. It is not meant to show actual ways that ice layers are examined and extrapolated into the past.


We know that the layers of ice that have formed over the last 100 years, have formed because of this or that kind of snowfall... or whatever. We know it because we have been recording it for the last hundred years. This means that "if" snowfall existed the same way for the last million years, then the earth is so many million years old.


The thing is, we don't have a clue that the ice layers were always formed in this way. Yet the "if" has been converted into a factual thing by the scientists, or by the media that publishes what the scientists say.

On top of that, the Bible is eye witness reports throughout a very large portion of it. Some of the reasons why this is way stronger than the "ifs" of evolution and scientific ages of the earth are listed hare https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1917510.msg27424435#msg27424435.


Consider. When a car engine is made, they don't make something like a piston and a cylinder that gradually turns into a piston or a cylinder, and then gradually forms into a V-8 engine. Rather, they design the engine and build the engine complete. Then they place it into a car, and run the engine. If there is testing of several designs, they do it before they manufacture the car.

In the same way, if God did something like testing of the universe parts before he made the universe, the tests were separate from the universe. God didn't throw out a bunch of "stuff" and let it evolve into something that works. He threw out the universe in working order. But...

... We won't know it for a fact until we can build a real, working time viewer to take a look. we simply have to believe God (or not), that He did it like He said He did it. This means that although we can extrapolate backwards to some extent, it is incorrect extrapolation the further back we go, because God set the whole thing in place, in 6 days, with appearances that can be interpreted as billions of years, yet with the words of the Bible that tell us what He really did.

Why would God show us a nature that might trick us into believing something the wrong way? Probably several reasons, two of which  are:
1. He wants to find out who will trust what He says so that He knows who to get rid of;
2. He is giving us what we are asking for, independence from God in our thinking, all the while holding us dependent on Him through cause and effect.

Evolution is a complete hoax.

Just like we don't have a clue if cause and effect was always present, thanks for debunking your own argument

Why would we want a clue when we have proof? The proof is the fact that God caused it all through creation, and the fact that scientific proof says that, since we haven't found anything else (like pure random) in multitudes of cause and effect operations, nothing but cause and effect exists.

Yes we have, you said it yourself, it's god. You already debunked your own argument several times.

God uses random. The universe doesn't. When God uses random on the universe, it's a miracle. When He doesn't, it's cause and effect.

[Astargath]

I simply cannot believe this. This is again doubting and denying science. It is a proven fact that we're all related to each other.. Yes.. we're also related to a stupid tree.

all living organism on earth share the basic DNA. Thats a fact. So we did not come from heaven. But whatever, believe what you want if it helps you.

edit:

I'm not bullsh!tting on the bible or any religion. I don't believe in any religion - yes. But the bible, for instance, just describes the things as they knew it. Guys.. thats a long way from writing such books to nowadays understanding of life.

Simply Google "evolution is impossible" to see that there are lots of reasons why evolution is impossible.

All of foundational evolution theory is written like it was something you had to believe in to make it true. There are no concrete facts for evolution found by those who actually do the search for evolution. The evidence fits creation better. The few almost-facts for evolution, are things done in the lab, where scientists are the makers... not in nature where the whole thing comes about by natural means. No facts for evolution are found in nature.

On top of all that, cause and effect operates precisely according to the laws of physics. If there is anything that is pure randomness, we haven't found it for a fact. Yet evolution theory says that evolutionary changes are done by "random" mutations. This is exactly opposite of cause and effect which we see operating in millions or billions of things, or more.

Evolution is a cute idea that doesn't have any backing outside a lot of talk. In fact, it is the loads of talk that keeps evolution alive as a theory. There are no facts behind evolution. It is a story like any science fiction story, except that it is contributed to by multitudes of people. Evolution is a story that doesn't fit reality.

Because many of the proponents of evolution realize that they have no facts to back evolution up, and yet they keep on saying that evolution is true, evolution has become one of the greatest hoaxes around. Lay (non-scientific) people who believe these evolution proponents, are believers in a religion... the evolution religion.

Evolution is a hoax.

I already googled that and it didn't show anything:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1917510.msg27216030#msg27216030

''The evidence fits creation better.'' Literally all dating methods show that creation is false, you know, older than 6-10k thousand years old.
''If there is anything that is pure randomness, we haven't found it'' You claimed god is pure randomness, so you did find it.
Also pretty much all science dismisses the bible (creation) : https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Biblical_scientific_errors

You can google that as well since you like google so much, ''scientific errors in the bible'' There are plenty.

You fail to properly apply what I said regarding whatever it is that you Googled in that top link of yours.

There aren't any mistakes in the bible. There are only people (kinda like you) who twist the meanings of what is written in the Bible, to mean something that the Bible doesn't say.

The bible is 6k to 10k years old meaning that earth and the universe are just as old, however that has been proven wrong through dozens of different methods of dating, all showing that earth and the universe are far older.

The proof that the earth is older than the bible says - http://www.albatrus.org/english/theology/creation/biblical_age_earth.htm - is based on the same kinds of "ifs" that evolution is based on. The following example simply shows a form of guessing the age of the earth. It is not meant to show actual ways that ice layers are examined and extrapolated into the past.


We know that the layers of ice that have formed over the last 100 years, have formed because of this or that kind of snowfall... or whatever. We know it because we have been recording it for the last hundred years. This means that "if" snowfall existed the same way for the last million years, then the earth is so many million years old.


The thing is, we don't have a clue that the ice layers were always formed in this way. Yet the "if" has been converted into a factual thing by the scientists, or by the media that publishes what the scientists say.

On top of that, the Bible is eye witness reports throughout a very large portion of it. Some of the reasons why this is way stronger than the "ifs" of evolution and scientific ages of the earth are listed hare https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1917510.msg27424435#msg27424435.


Consider. When a car engine is made, they don't make something like a piston and a cylinder that gradually turns into a piston or a cylinder, and then gradually forms into a V-8 engine. Rather, they design the engine and build the engine complete. Then they place it into a car, and run the engine. If there is testing of several designs, they do it before they manufacture the car.

In the same way, if God did something like testing of the universe parts before he made the universe, the tests were separate from the universe. God didn't throw out a bunch of "stuff" and let it evolve into something that works. He threw out the universe in working order. But...

... We won't know it for a fact until we can build a real, working time viewer to take a look. we simply have to believe God (or not), that He did it like He said He did it. This means that although we can extrapolate backwards to some extent, it is incorrect extrapolation the further back we go, because God set the whole thing in place, in 6 days, with appearances that can be interpreted as billions of years, yet with the words of the Bible that tell us what He really did.

Why would God show us a nature that might trick us into believing something the wrong way? Probably several reasons, two of which  are:
1. He wants to find out who will trust what He says so that He knows who to get rid of;
2. He is giving us what we are asking for, independence from God in our thinking, all the while holding us dependent on Him through cause and effect.

Evolution is a complete hoax.

Just like we don't have a clue if cause and effect was always present, thanks for debunking your own argument

Why would we want a clue when we have proof? The proof is the fact that God caused it all through creation, and the fact that scientific proof says that, since we haven't found anything else (like pure random) in multitudes of cause and effect operations, nothing but cause and effect exists.

Yes we have, you said it yourself, it's god. You already debunked your own argument several times.

God uses random. The universe doesn't. When God uses random on the universe, it's a miracle. When He doesn't, it's cause and effect.

So then you admit that he is random, therefore evolution is real since he is the cause of everything and he doesn't have a cause, ultimately everything is indeed random. Well that was easy, thanks for admitting it badecker.

[BADecker]

I simply cannot believe this. This is again doubting and denying science. It is a proven fact that we're all related to each other.. Yes.. we're also related to a stupid tree.

all living organism on earth share the basic DNA. Thats a fact. So we did not come from heaven. But whatever, believe what you want if it helps you.

edit:

I'm not bullsh!tting on the bible or any religion. I don't believe in any religion - yes. But the bible, for instance, just describes the things as they knew it. Guys.. thats a long way from writing such books to nowadays understanding of life.

Simply Google "evolution is impossible" to see that there are lots of reasons why evolution is impossible.

All of foundational evolution theory is written like it was something you had to believe in to make it true. There are no concrete facts for evolution found by those who actually do the search for evolution. The evidence fits creation better. The few almost-facts for evolution, are things done in the lab, where scientists are the makers... not in nature where the whole thing comes about by natural means. No facts for evolution are found in nature.

On top of all that, cause and effect operates precisely according to the laws of physics. If there is anything that is pure randomness, we haven't found it for a fact. Yet evolution theory says that evolutionary changes are done by "random" mutations. This is exactly opposite of cause and effect which we see operating in millions or billions of things, or more.

Evolution is a cute idea that doesn't have any backing outside a lot of talk. In fact, it is the loads of talk that keeps evolution alive as a theory. There are no facts behind evolution. It is a story like any science fiction story, except that it is contributed to by multitudes of people. Evolution is a story that doesn't fit reality.

Because many of the proponents of evolution realize that they have no facts to back evolution up, and yet they keep on saying that evolution is true, evolution has become one of the greatest hoaxes around. Lay (non-scientific) people who believe these evolution proponents, are believers in a religion... the evolution religion.

Evolution is a hoax.

I already googled that and it didn't show anything:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1917510.msg27216030#msg27216030

''The evidence fits creation better.'' Literally all dating methods show that creation is false, you know, older than 6-10k thousand years old.
''If there is anything that is pure randomness, we haven't found it'' You claimed god is pure randomness, so you did find it.
Also pretty much all science dismisses the bible (creation) : https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Biblical_scientific_errors

You can google that as well since you like google so much, ''scientific errors in the bible'' There are plenty.

You fail to properly apply what I said regarding whatever it is that you Googled in that top link of yours.

There aren't any mistakes in the bible. There are only people (kinda like you) who twist the meanings of what is written in the Bible, to mean something that the Bible doesn't say.

The bible is 6k to 10k years old meaning that earth and the universe are just as old, however that has been proven wrong through dozens of different methods of dating, all showing that earth and the universe are far older.

The proof that the earth is older than the bible says - http://www.albatrus.org/english/theology/creation/biblical_age_earth.htm - is based on the same kinds of "ifs" that evolution is based on. The following example simply shows a form of guessing the age of the earth. It is not meant to show actual ways that ice layers are examined and extrapolated into the past.


We know that the layers of ice that have formed over the last 100 years, have formed because of this or that kind of snowfall... or whatever. We know it because we have been recording it for the last hundred years. This means that "if" snowfall existed the same way for the last million years, then the earth is so many million years old.


The thing is, we don't have a clue that the ice layers were always formed in this way. Yet the "if" has been converted into a factual thing by the scientists, or by the media that publishes what the scientists say.

On top of that, the Bible is eye witness reports throughout a very large portion of it. Some of the reasons why this is way stronger than the "ifs" of evolution and scientific ages of the earth are listed hare https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1917510.msg27424435#msg27424435.


Consider. When a car engine is made, they don't make something like a piston and a cylinder that gradually turns into a piston or a cylinder, and then gradually forms into a V-8 engine. Rather, they design the engine and build the engine complete. Then they place it into a car, and run the engine. If there is testing of several designs, they do it before they manufacture the car.

In the same way, if God did something like testing of the universe parts before he made the universe, the tests were separate from the universe. God didn't throw out a bunch of "stuff" and let it evolve into something that works. He threw out the universe in working order. But...

... We won't know it for a fact until we can build a real, working time viewer to take a look. we simply have to believe God (or not), that He did it like He said He did it. This means that although we can extrapolate backwards to some extent, it is incorrect extrapolation the further back we go, because God set the whole thing in place, in 6 days, with appearances that can be interpreted as billions of years, yet with the words of the Bible that tell us what He really did.

Why would God show us a nature that might trick us into believing something the wrong way? Probably several reasons, two of which  are:
1. He wants to find out who will trust what He says so that He knows who to get rid of;
2. He is giving us what we are asking for, independence from God in our thinking, all the while holding us dependent on Him through cause and effect.

Evolution is a complete hoax.

Just like we don't have a clue if cause and effect was always present, thanks for debunking your own argument

Why would we want a clue when we have proof? The proof is the fact that God caused it all through creation, and the fact that scientific proof says that, since we haven't found anything else (like pure random) in multitudes of cause and effect operations, nothing but cause and effect exists.

Yes we have, you said it yourself, it's god. You already debunked your own argument several times.

God uses random. The universe doesn't. When God uses random on the universe, it's a miracle. When He doesn't, it's cause and effect.

So then you admit that he is random, therefore evolution is real since he is the cause of everything and he doesn't have a cause, ultimately everything is indeed random. Well that was easy, thanks for admitting it badecker.

I already told you, and it is common sense, that something that is outside of this universe is so extremely different than anything within, that we can't understand it at all. If it was the same as something within the universe, it would be part of the universe.

If God is something like the randomness that we are thinking of/talking about, there is no way to know. Yet God uses random, because He uses anything that He wants... at least as far as our puny intellects are concerned. Or do you have a less puny intellect because you understand multitudes of mysteries of the universe that are hidden from everybody else?

If you want to call the First Cause random, and thus evolution exists because there is that random, evolution theory still is wrong, because the theory considers randomness at multitudes of points in the universe timeline. There is no evidence whatsoever for that randomness, and certainly no proof.

Get off it. Evolution is a big fat hoax, and you know it. Wake up and be honest for once in your life. Or are you Satan, himself?

[popcorn1]

I simply cannot believe this. This is again doubting and denying science. It is a proven fact that we're all related to each other.. Yes.. we're also related to a stupid tree.

all living organism on earth share the basic DNA. Thats a fact. So we did not come from heaven. But whatever, believe what you want if it helps you.

edit:

I'm not bullsh!tting on the bible or any religion. I don't believe in any religion - yes. But the bible, for instance, just describes the things as they knew it. Guys.. thats a long way from writing such books to nowadays understanding of life.

Simply Google "evolution is impossible" to see that there are lots of reasons why evolution is impossible.

All of foundational evolution theory is written like it was something you had to believe in to make it true. There are no concrete facts for evolution found by those who actually do the search for evolution. The evidence fits creation better. The few almost-facts for evolution, are things done in the lab, where scientists are the makers... not in nature where the whole thing comes about by natural means. No facts for evolution are found in nature.

On top of all that, cause and effect operates precisely according to the laws of physics. If there is anything that is pure randomness, we haven't found it for a fact. Yet evolution theory says that evolutionary changes are done by "random" mutations. This is exactly opposite of cause and effect which we see operating in millions or billions of things, or more.

Evolution is a cute idea that doesn't have any backing outside a lot of talk. In fact, it is the loads of talk that keeps evolution alive as a theory. There are no facts behind evolution. It is a story like any science fiction story, except that it is contributed to by multitudes of people. Evolution is a story that doesn't fit reality.

Because many of the proponents of evolution realize that they have no facts to back evolution up, and yet they keep on saying that evolution is true, evolution has become one of the greatest hoaxes around. Lay (non-scientific) people who believe these evolution proponents, are believers in a religion... the evolution religion.

Evolution is a hoax.

I already googled that and it didn't show anything:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1917510.msg27216030#msg27216030

''The evidence fits creation better.'' Literally all dating methods show that creation is false, you know, older than 6-10k thousand years old.
''If there is anything that is pure randomness, we haven't found it'' You claimed god is pure randomness, so you did find it.
Also pretty much all science dismisses the bible (creation) : https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Biblical_scientific_errors

You can google that as well since you like google so much, ''scientific errors in the bible'' There are plenty.

You fail to properly apply what I said regarding whatever it is that you Googled in that top link of yours.

There aren't any mistakes in the bible. There are only people (kinda like you) who twist the meanings of what is written in the Bible, to mean something that the Bible doesn't say.

The bible is 6k to 10k years old meaning that earth and the universe are just as old, however that has been proven wrong through dozens of different methods of dating, all showing that earth and the universe are far older.

The proof that the earth is older than the bible says - http://www.albatrus.org/english/theology/creation/biblical_age_earth.htm - is based on the same kinds of "ifs" that evolution is based on. The following example simply shows a form of guessing the age of the earth. It is not meant to show actual ways that ice layers are examined and extrapolated into the past.


We know that the layers of ice that have formed over the last 100 years, have formed because of this or that kind of snowfall... or whatever. We know it because we have been recording it for the last hundred years. This means that "if" snowfall existed the same way for the last million years, then the earth is so many million years old.


The thing is, we don't have a clue that the ice layers were always formed in this way. Yet the "if" has been converted into a factual thing by the scientists, or by the media that publishes what the scientists say.

On top of that, the Bible is eye witness reports throughout a very large portion of it. Some of the reasons why this is way stronger than the "ifs" of evolution and scientific ages of the earth are listed hare https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1917510.msg27424435#msg27424435.


Consider. When a car engine is made, they don't make something like a piston and a cylinder that gradually turns into a piston or a cylinder, and then gradually forms into a V-8 engine. Rather, they design the engine and build the engine complete. Then they place it into a car, and run the engine. If there is testing of several designs, they do it before they manufacture the car.

In the same way, if God did something like testing of the universe parts before he made the universe, the tests were separate from the universe. God didn't throw out a bunch of "stuff" and let it evolve into something that works. He threw out the universe in working order. But...

... We won't know it for a fact until we can build a real, working time viewer to take a look. we simply have to believe God (or not), that He did it like He said He did it. This means that although we can extrapolate backwards to some extent, it is incorrect extrapolation the further back we go, because God set the whole thing in place, in 6 days, with appearances that can be interpreted as billions of years, yet with the words of the Bible that tell us what He really did.

Why would God show us a nature that might trick us into believing something the wrong way? Probably several reasons, two of which  are:
1. He wants to find out who will trust what He says so that He knows who to get rid of;
2. He is giving us what we are asking for, independence from God in our thinking, all the while holding us dependent on Him through cause and effect.

Evolution is a complete hoax.

Just like we don't have a clue if cause and effect was always present, thanks for debunking your own argument

Why would we want a clue when we have proof? The proof is the fact that God caused it all through creation, and the fact that scientific proof says that, since we haven't found anything else (like pure random) in multitudes of cause and effect operations, nothing but cause and effect exists.

Yes we have, you said it yourself, it's god. You already debunked your own argument several times.

God uses random. The universe doesn't. When God uses random on the universe, it's a miracle. When He doesn't, it's cause and effect.

So then you admit that he is random, therefore evolution is real since he is the cause of everything and he doesn't have a cause, ultimately everything is indeed random. Well that was easy, thanks for admitting it badecker.

I already told you, and it is common sense, that something that is outside of this universe is so extremely different than anything within, that we can't understand it at all. If it was the same as something within the universe, it would be part of the universe.

If God is something like the randomness that we are thinking of/talking about, there is no way to know. Yet God uses random, because He uses anything that He wants... at least as far as our puny intellects are concerned. Or do you have a less puny intellect because you understand multitudes of mysteries of the universe that are hidden from everybody else?

If you want to call the First Cause random, and thus evolution exists because there is that random, evolution theory still is wrong, because the theory considers randomness at multitudes of points in the universe timeline. There is no evidence whatsoever for that randomness, and certainly no proof.

Get off it. Evolution is a big fat hoax, and you know it. Wake up and be honest for once in your life. Or are you Satan, himself?

Outside of the universe < HOW? ..UNI   VERSE <<The whole thing ..

You mean we might be in a boxverse? bubbleverse?    A verse <one of many..

The word UNI says it all ..

BUT who does your god live with outside of the universe..

[popcorn1]

Some peoples ask why can we not replicate animals that walk the earth today ..
1 cell into a elephant ..

You do realise that different environment today than the past..
So how can an elephant be an elephant without the specific weather or earth changes it had in the past
for it to be an elephant ..

Was it raining in the past for the change ..
was it because the earth split away and moved to a sunny bit of the world..
was it colder ..
was it warmer..
Did a landslide happen..

So many different earth events that happen that will of made species change over time..

In today's world how do you replicate geological event for things to evolve into all the life we see today?.

Drive down the motorway and you drive into rain look back and it's not raining ..
20 miles away can have different weather as you know when you drive down the motorway..

That's why so many different creatures and the fact each creature wants to eat each other..

So your god come down made bad weather earthquakes then made life eat each other ..
And you want to go to heaven ..

Imagine Badecker at the gates of heaven..

Hay god why is that man eating the leg off another man  WELL that's love my son ..
Now get in here  ..

[Astargath]

I simply cannot believe this. This is again doubting and denying science. It is a proven fact that we're all related to each other.. Yes.. we're also related to a stupid tree.

all living organism on earth share the basic DNA. Thats a fact. So we did not come from heaven. But whatever, believe what you want if it helps you.

edit:

I'm not bullsh!tting on the bible or any religion. I don't believe in any religion - yes. But the bible, for instance, just describes the things as they knew it. Guys.. thats a long way from writing such books to nowadays understanding of life.

Simply Google "evolution is impossible" to see that there are lots of reasons why evolution is impossible.

All of foundational evolution theory is written like it was something you had to believe in to make it true. There are no concrete facts for evolution found by those who actually do the search for evolution. The evidence fits creation better. The few almost-facts for evolution, are things done in the lab, where scientists are the makers... not in nature where the whole thing comes about by natural means. No facts for evolution are found in nature.

On top of all that, cause and effect operates precisely according to the laws of physics. If there is anything that is pure randomness, we haven't found it for a fact. Yet evolution theory says that evolutionary changes are done by "random" mutations. This is exactly opposite of cause and effect which we see operating in millions or billions of things, or more.

Evolution is a cute idea that doesn't have any backing outside a lot of talk. In fact, it is the loads of talk that keeps evolution alive as a theory. There are no facts behind evolution. It is a story like any science fiction story, except that it is contributed to by multitudes of people. Evolution is a story that doesn't fit reality.

Because many of the proponents of evolution realize that they have no facts to back evolution up, and yet they keep on saying that evolution is true, evolution has become one of the greatest hoaxes around. Lay (non-scientific) people who believe these evolution proponents, are believers in a religion... the evolution religion.

Evolution is a hoax.

I already googled that and it didn't show anything:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1917510.msg27216030#msg27216030

''The evidence fits creation better.'' Literally all dating methods show that creation is false, you know, older than 6-10k thousand years old.
''If there is anything that is pure randomness, we haven't found it'' You claimed god is pure randomness, so you did find it.
Also pretty much all science dismisses the bible (creation) : https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Biblical_scientific_errors

You can google that as well since you like google so much, ''scientific errors in the bible'' There are plenty.

You fail to properly apply what I said regarding whatever it is that you Googled in that top link of yours.

There aren't any mistakes in the bible. There are only people (kinda like you) who twist the meanings of what is written in the Bible, to mean something that the Bible doesn't say.

The bible is 6k to 10k years old meaning that earth and the universe are just as old, however that has been proven wrong through dozens of different methods of dating, all showing that earth and the universe are far older.

The proof that the earth is older than the bible says - http://www.albatrus.org/english/theology/creation/biblical_age_earth.htm - is based on the same kinds of "ifs" that evolution is based on. The following example simply shows a form of guessing the age of the earth. It is not meant to show actual ways that ice layers are examined and extrapolated into the past.


We know that the layers of ice that have formed over the last 100 years, have formed because of this or that kind of snowfall... or whatever. We know it because we have been recording it for the last hundred years. This means that "if" snowfall existed the same way for the last million years, then the earth is so many million years old.


The thing is, we don't have a clue that the ice layers were always formed in this way. Yet the "if" has been converted into a factual thing by the scientists, or by the media that publishes what the scientists say.

On top of that, the Bible is eye witness reports throughout a very large portion of it. Some of the reasons why this is way stronger than the "ifs" of evolution and scientific ages of the earth are listed hare https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1917510.msg27424435#msg27424435.


Consider. When a car engine is made, they don't make something like a piston and a cylinder that gradually turns into a piston or a cylinder, and then gradually forms into a V-8 engine. Rather, they design the engine and build the engine complete. Then they place it into a car, and run the engine. If there is testing of several designs, they do it before they manufacture the car.

In the same way, if God did something like testing of the universe parts before he made the universe, the tests were separate from the universe. God didn't throw out a bunch of "stuff" and let it evolve into something that works. He threw out the universe in working order. But...

... We won't know it for a fact until we can build a real, working time viewer to take a look. we simply have to believe God (or not), that He did it like He said He did it. This means that although we can extrapolate backwards to some extent, it is incorrect extrapolation the further back we go, because God set the whole thing in place, in 6 days, with appearances that can be interpreted as billions of years, yet with the words of the Bible that tell us what He really did.

Why would God show us a nature that might trick us into believing something the wrong way? Probably several reasons, two of which  are:
1. He wants to find out who will trust what He says so that He knows who to get rid of;
2. He is giving us what we are asking for, independence from God in our thinking, all the while holding us dependent on Him through cause and effect.

Evolution is a complete hoax.

Just like we don't have a clue if cause and effect was always present, thanks for debunking your own argument

Why would we want a clue when we have proof? The proof is the fact that God caused it all through creation, and the fact that scientific proof says that, since we haven't found anything else (like pure random) in multitudes of cause and effect operations, nothing but cause and effect exists.

Yes we have, you said it yourself, it's god. You already debunked your own argument several times.

God uses random. The universe doesn't. When God uses random on the universe, it's a miracle. When He doesn't, it's cause and effect.

So then you admit that he is random, therefore evolution is real since he is the cause of everything and he doesn't have a cause, ultimately everything is indeed random. Well that was easy, thanks for admitting it badecker.

I already told you, and it is common sense, that something that is outside of this universe is so extremely different than anything within, that we can't understand it at all. If it was the same as something within the universe, it would be part of the universe.

If God is something like the randomness that we are thinking of/talking about, there is no way to know. Yet God uses random, because He uses anything that He wants... at least as far as our puny intellects are concerned. Or do you have a less puny intellect because you understand multitudes of mysteries of the universe that are hidden from everybody else?

If you want to call the First Cause random, and thus evolution exists because there is that random, evolution theory still is wrong, because the theory considers randomness at multitudes of points in the universe timeline. There is no evidence whatsoever for that randomness, and certainly no proof.

Get off it. Evolution is a big fat hoax, and you know it. Wake up and be honest for once in your life. Or are you Satan, himself?

Well, you see if the first cause of a chain of causes is random, essentially all the causes within the chain are random.

Imagine a random dice that can jump on its own, unpredictable and every time a random number appears. Imagine the dice randomly jumps again but this time falls onto a flower and breaks it. You would consider the cause of the broke plant, the dice however the dice itself has no cause, its random so basically the real cause for the broken plant is random.

The same thing happens with your example. If god ultimately created everything, then all the chain of causes go back to a single point, god, which is a random being, everything he did, he did without a cause.

Evolution is true and you proved it.

[BADecker]

I simply cannot believe this. This is again doubting and denying science. It is a proven fact that we're all related to each other.. Yes.. we're also related to a stupid tree.

all living organism on earth share the basic DNA. Thats a fact. So we did not come from heaven. But whatever, believe what you want if it helps you.

edit:

I'm not bullsh!tting on the bible or any religion. I don't believe in any religion - yes. But the bible, for instance, just describes the things as they knew it. Guys.. thats a long way from writing such books to nowadays understanding of life.

Simply Google "evolution is impossible" to see that there are lots of reasons why evolution is impossible.

All of foundational evolution theory is written like it was something you had to believe in to make it true. There are no concrete facts for evolution found by those who actually do the search for evolution. The evidence fits creation better. The few almost-facts for evolution, are things done in the lab, where scientists are the makers... not in nature where the whole thing comes about by natural means. No facts for evolution are found in nature.

On top of all that, cause and effect operates precisely according to the laws of physics. If there is anything that is pure randomness, we haven't found it for a fact. Yet evolution theory says that evolutionary changes are done by "random" mutations. This is exactly opposite of cause and effect which we see operating in millions or billions of things, or more.

Evolution is a cute idea that doesn't have any backing outside a lot of talk. In fact, it is the loads of talk that keeps evolution alive as a theory. There are no facts behind evolution. It is a story like any science fiction story, except that it is contributed to by multitudes of people. Evolution is a story that doesn't fit reality.

Because many of the proponents of evolution realize that they have no facts to back evolution up, and yet they keep on saying that evolution is true, evolution has become one of the greatest hoaxes around. Lay (non-scientific) people who believe these evolution proponents, are believers in a religion... the evolution religion.

Evolution is a hoax.

I already googled that and it didn't show anything:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1917510.msg27216030#msg27216030

''The evidence fits creation better.'' Literally all dating methods show that creation is false, you know, older than 6-10k thousand years old.
''If there is anything that is pure randomness, we haven't found it'' You claimed god is pure randomness, so you did find it.
Also pretty much all science dismisses the bible (creation) : https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Biblical_scientific_errors

You can google that as well since you like google so much, ''scientific errors in the bible'' There are plenty.

You fail to properly apply what I said regarding whatever it is that you Googled in that top link of yours.

There aren't any mistakes in the bible. There are only people (kinda like you) who twist the meanings of what is written in the Bible, to mean something that the Bible doesn't say.

The bible is 6k to 10k years old meaning that earth and the universe are just as old, however that has been proven wrong through dozens of different methods of dating, all showing that earth and the universe are far older.

The proof that the earth is older than the bible says - http://www.albatrus.org/english/theology/creation/biblical_age_earth.htm - is based on the same kinds of "ifs" that evolution is based on. The following example simply shows a form of guessing the age of the earth. It is not meant to show actual ways that ice layers are examined and extrapolated into the past.


We know that the layers of ice that have formed over the last 100 years, have formed because of this or that kind of snowfall... or whatever. We know it because we have been recording it for the last hundred years. This means that "if" snowfall existed the same way for the last million years, then the earth is so many million years old.


The thing is, we don't have a clue that the ice layers were always formed in this way. Yet the "if" has been converted into a factual thing by the scientists, or by the media that publishes what the scientists say.

On top of that, the Bible is eye witness reports throughout a very large portion of it. Some of the reasons why this is way stronger than the "ifs" of evolution and scientific ages of the earth are listed hare https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1917510.msg27424435#msg27424435.


Consider. When a car engine is made, they don't make something like a piston and a cylinder that gradually turns into a piston or a cylinder, and then gradually forms into a V-8 engine. Rather, they design the engine and build the engine complete. Then they place it into a car, and run the engine. If there is testing of several designs, they do it before they manufacture the car.

In the same way, if God did something like testing of the universe parts before he made the universe, the tests were separate from the universe. God didn't throw out a bunch of "stuff" and let it evolve into something that works. He threw out the universe in working order. But...

... We won't know it for a fact until we can build a real, working time viewer to take a look. we simply have to believe God (or not), that He did it like He said He did it. This means that although we can extrapolate backwards to some extent, it is incorrect extrapolation the further back we go, because God set the whole thing in place, in 6 days, with appearances that can be interpreted as billions of years, yet with the words of the Bible that tell us what He really did.

Why would God show us a nature that might trick us into believing something the wrong way? Probably several reasons, two of which  are:
1. He wants to find out who will trust what He says so that He knows who to get rid of;
2. He is giving us what we are asking for, independence from God in our thinking, all the while holding us dependent on Him through cause and effect.

Evolution is a complete hoax.

Just like we don't have a clue if cause and effect was always present, thanks for debunking your own argument

Why would we want a clue when we have proof? The proof is the fact that God caused it all through creation, and the fact that scientific proof says that, since we haven't found anything else (like pure random) in multitudes of cause and effect operations, nothing but cause and effect exists.

Yes we have, you said it yourself, it's god. You already debunked your own argument several times.

God uses random. The universe doesn't. When God uses random on the universe, it's a miracle. When He doesn't, it's cause and effect.

So then you admit that he is random, therefore evolution is real since he is the cause of everything and he doesn't have a cause, ultimately everything is indeed random. Well that was easy, thanks for admitting it badecker.

I already told you, and it is common sense, that something that is outside of this universe is so extremely different than anything within, that we can't understand it at all. If it was the same as something within the universe, it would be part of the universe.

If God is something like the randomness that we are thinking of/talking about, there is no way to know. Yet God uses random, because He uses anything that He wants... at least as far as our puny intellects are concerned. Or do you have a less puny intellect because you understand multitudes of mysteries of the universe that are hidden from everybody else?

If you want to call the First Cause random, and thus evolution exists because there is that random, evolution theory still is wrong, because the theory considers randomness at multitudes of points in the universe timeline. There is no evidence whatsoever for that randomness, and certainly no proof.

Get off it. Evolution is a big fat hoax, and you know it. Wake up and be honest for once in your life. Or are you Satan, himself?

Well, you see if the first cause of a chain of causes is random, essentially all the causes within the chain are random.

Imagine a random dice that can jump on its own, unpredictable and every time a random number appears. Imagine the dice randomly jumps again but this time falls onto a flower and breaks it. You would consider the cause of the broke plant, the dice however the dice itself has no cause, its random so basically the real cause for the broken plant is random.

The same thing happens with your example. If god ultimately created everything, then all the chain of causes go back to a single point, god, which is a random being, everything he did, he did without a cause.

Evolution is true and you proved it.

Since the first cause in the chain of causes that is our universe, is something (or from something) outside of the universe, we don't really know what it is... random or something else.

"Imagine a random dice that can jump on its own..." This is precisely what evolution is. A big chunk of imagination about all kinds of things. Why? Because there is no proof, and no evidence for it, that doesn't fit creation better. IF evolution happened to be true, we don't know it is, or how it could be true... at least not scientifically speaking. Our evolution theory doesn't match reality.

How do you know anything about God? Do you believe what I have said about Him? Does science show you about Him? Do you just feel that He is the way you describe? LOL.

Evolution is a hoax, and you just proved you understand that it is a hoax.

[Astargath]

I simply cannot believe this. This is again doubting and denying science. It is a proven fact that we're all related to each other.. Yes.. we're also related to a stupid tree.

all living organism on earth share the basic DNA. Thats a fact. So we did not come from heaven. But whatever, believe what you want if it helps you.

edit:

I'm not bullsh!tting on the bible or any religion. I don't believe in any religion - yes. But the bible, for instance, just describes the things as they knew it. Guys.. thats a long way from writing such books to nowadays understanding of life.

Simply Google "evolution is impossible" to see that there are lots of reasons why evolution is impossible.

All of foundational evolution theory is written like it was something you had to believe in to make it true. There are no concrete facts for evolution found by those who actually do the search for evolution. The evidence fits creation better. The few almost-facts for evolution, are things done in the lab, where scientists are the makers... not in nature where the whole thing comes about by natural means. No facts for evolution are found in nature.

On top of all that, cause and effect operates precisely according to the laws of physics. If there is anything that is pure randomness, we haven't found it for a fact. Yet evolution theory says that evolutionary changes are done by "random" mutations. This is exactly opposite of cause and effect which we see operating in millions or billions of things, or more.

Evolution is a cute idea that doesn't have any backing outside a lot of talk. In fact, it is the loads of talk that keeps evolution alive as a theory. There are no facts behind evolution. It is a story like any science fiction story, except that it is contributed to by multitudes of people. Evolution is a story that doesn't fit reality.

Because many of the proponents of evolution realize that they have no facts to back evolution up, and yet they keep on saying that evolution is true, evolution has become one of the greatest hoaxes around. Lay (non-scientific) people who believe these evolution proponents, are believers in a religion... the evolution religion.

Evolution is a hoax.

I already googled that and it didn't show anything:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1917510.msg27216030#msg27216030

''The evidence fits creation better.'' Literally all dating methods show that creation is false, you know, older than 6-10k thousand years old.
''If there is anything that is pure randomness, we haven't found it'' You claimed god is pure randomness, so you did find it.
Also pretty much all science dismisses the bible (creation) : https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Biblical_scientific_errors

You can google that as well since you like google so much, ''scientific errors in the bible'' There are plenty.

You fail to properly apply what I said regarding whatever it is that you Googled in that top link of yours.

There aren't any mistakes in the bible. There are only people (kinda like you) who twist the meanings of what is written in the Bible, to mean something that the Bible doesn't say.

The bible is 6k to 10k years old meaning that earth and the universe are just as old, however that has been proven wrong through dozens of different methods of dating, all showing that earth and the universe are far older.

The proof that the earth is older than the bible says - http://www.albatrus.org/english/theology/creation/biblical_age_earth.htm - is based on the same kinds of "ifs" that evolution is based on. The following example simply shows a form of guessing the age of the earth. It is not meant to show actual ways that ice layers are examined and extrapolated into the past.


We know that the layers of ice that have formed over the last 100 years, have formed because of this or that kind of snowfall... or whatever. We know it because we have been recording it for the last hundred years. This means that "if" snowfall existed the same way for the last million years, then the earth is so many million years old.


The thing is, we don't have a clue that the ice layers were always formed in this way. Yet the "if" has been converted into a factual thing by the scientists, or by the media that publishes what the scientists say.

On top of that, the Bible is eye witness reports throughout a very large portion of it. Some of the reasons why this is way stronger than the "ifs" of evolution and scientific ages of the earth are listed hare https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1917510.msg27424435#msg27424435.


Consider. When a car engine is made, they don't make something like a piston and a cylinder that gradually turns into a piston or a cylinder, and then gradually forms into a V-8 engine. Rather, they design the engine and build the engine complete. Then they place it into a car, and run the engine. If there is testing of several designs, they do it before they manufacture the car.

In the same way, if God did something like testing of the universe parts before he made the universe, the tests were separate from the universe. God didn't throw out a bunch of "stuff" and let it evolve into something that works. He threw out the universe in working order. But...

... We won't know it for a fact until we can build a real, working time viewer to take a look. we simply have to believe God (or not), that He did it like He said He did it. This means that although we can extrapolate backwards to some extent, it is incorrect extrapolation the further back we go, because God set the whole thing in place, in 6 days, with appearances that can be interpreted as billions of years, yet with the words of the Bible that tell us what He really did.

Why would God show us a nature that might trick us into believing something the wrong way? Probably several reasons, two of which  are:
1. He wants to find out who will trust what He says so that He knows who to get rid of;
2. He is giving us what we are asking for, independence from God in our thinking, all the while holding us dependent on Him through cause and effect.

Evolution is a complete hoax.

Just like we don't have a clue if cause and effect was always present, thanks for debunking your own argument

Why would we want a clue when we have proof? The proof is the fact that God caused it all through creation, and the fact that scientific proof says that, since we haven't found anything else (like pure random) in multitudes of cause and effect operations, nothing but cause and effect exists.

Yes we have, you said it yourself, it's god. You already debunked your own argument several times.

God uses random. The universe doesn't. When God uses random on the universe, it's a miracle. When He doesn't, it's cause and effect.

So then you admit that he is random, therefore evolution is real since he is the cause of everything and he doesn't have a cause, ultimately everything is indeed random. Well that was easy, thanks for admitting it badecker.

I already told you, and it is common sense, that something that is outside of this universe is so extremely different than anything within, that we can't understand it at all. If it was the same as something within the universe, it would be part of the universe.

If God is something like the randomness that we are thinking of/talking about, there is no way to know. Yet God uses random, because He uses anything that He wants... at least as far as our puny intellects are concerned. Or do you have a less puny intellect because you understand multitudes of mysteries of the universe that are hidden from everybody else?

If you want to call the First Cause random, and thus evolution exists because there is that random, evolution theory still is wrong, because the theory considers randomness at multitudes of points in the universe timeline. There is no evidence whatsoever for that randomness, and certainly no proof.

Get off it. Evolution is a big fat hoax, and you know it. Wake up and be honest for once in your life. Or are you Satan, himself?

Well, you see if the first cause of a chain of causes is random, essentially all the causes within the chain are random.

Imagine a random dice that can jump on its own, unpredictable and every time a random number appears. Imagine the dice randomly jumps again but this time falls onto a flower and breaks it. You would consider the cause of the broke plant, the dice however the dice itself has no cause, its random so basically the real cause for the broken plant is random.

The same thing happens with your example. If god ultimately created everything, then all the chain of causes go back to a single point, god, which is a random being, everything he did, he did without a cause.

Evolution is true and you proved it.

Since the first cause in the chain of causes that is our universe, is something (or from something) outside of the universe, we don't really know what it is... random or something else.

"Imagine a random dice that can jump on its own..." This is precisely what evolution is. A big chunk of imagination about all kinds of things. Why? Because there is no proof, and no evidence for it, that doesn't fit creation better. IF evolution happened to be true, we don't know it is, or how it could be true... at least not scientifically speaking. Our evolution theory doesn't match reality.

How do you know anything about God? Do you believe what I have said about Him? Does science show you about Him? Do you just feel that He is the way you describe? LOL.

Evolution is a hoax, and you just proved you understand that it is a hoax.

I don't understand you. Why do you keep saying ''the way I described him'' You said that god has no cause so I used what you said against you, now you are claiming that I'm the one saying it LOL.
''outside of the universe, we don't really know what it is... random or something else.'' There aren't too many options badecker, either the cause of the universe has a cause or doesn't and you claimed it doesn't because you said it was god and that god itself has no cause, I can quote you on that if you want. Are you saying now that god has a cause?

[popcorn1]

How do you know anything about God? Do you believe what I have said about Him? ..NO ..

WHY?.. because how come YOU know so much about god living outside of the universe but we don't?...
Must only speak to you?..

Show your proof of god to the world and you will be a very very rich man ..
You have had all the proof of evolution and still you say god is the creator with no evidence what so ever
so now your just wasting peoples time for WHAT?..

Are you mental ?..