[ANN][NIM] - Nimiq - The Browser Based Blockchain

[kosaet]

Does this official spreadsheet for Nimiq CPU hash rates??
just to be 100% sure

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1RjU6aQnRcXj6RQOGkG8DAscFjWyV1axdSECJbWy0c7c/edit#gid=0

[F2b]

Does this official spreadsheet for Nimiq CPU hash rates??
just to be 100% sure

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1RjU6aQnRcXj6RQOGkG8DAscFjWyV1axdSECJbWy0c7c/edit#gid=0

nope, it doesn't seem to be official

[Nimiq]

Does this official spreadsheet for Nimiq CPU hash rates??
just to be 100% sure

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1RjU6aQnRcXj6RQOGkG8DAscFjWyV1axdSECJbWy0c7c/edit#gid=0

nope, it doesn't seem to be official

You can check an official list made by the community at https://nimiq.community/benchmark

[polylogic]

im not a shareholder or something, i only hold NIM like all other people of the network. if you really would want to comply, then you need the data of all users because all NIM gets created and sold by you.

in case it wasnt clear what i was talking about:

Nimiq Foundation (you) create the ERC-20 token.
Nimiq Foundation (you) sells the ERC-20 token for promise of future NIM Coins on Nimiq Network (browser based blockchain, no cryptocurrency).
Nimiq Foundation (you) create the Nimiq Network.
Nimiq Foundation (you) set the parameter to issue NIM Coins to miners.
Nimiq Foundation (you) are the first to mine...

now there are two ways to look at the next step:
1. you BUY BACK OUR ERC-20 Token for your NIM coin at a fixxed rate, actually, your are my customer and i dont want kyc from you.
2. we call it exchange, i change my NET Token on Ethereum for NIM on Nimiq. (now i see both scenarios doesnt have to include kyc)
--you really should have collected kyc at the net sale. do it now makes no sense whatsoever. because:

Nimiq Network mainnet goes live.
Nimiq Network continues to create NIM Coin, issued to miners (anonymous users of the nimiq network)

now i dont know your numbers, lets say 20% of all users are KYC victims (very high risk of getting identity stolen). 80% anon users at mainnet.

whatever happens on the nimiq network is ultimately nimiq foundations creation.
each NIM created by the automated process of creating nim for work on the network is issued by the NIMIQ foundation.

now if you say you can only exchange NIM for NET if we provide KYC ultimately means that in future you,
HAVE TO get KYC from EACH and EVERY user of the NIMIQ Network because each address holds a share of the networks wealth.
it can only be used if people provide kyc. simple as that. imagen you are the new visa, visa work without documents? no.

but if you say "we buy back your NET for our NIM" then KYC is no issue.
dont forget, there is no law and we have to work on creating laws for crypto/blockchain/ico that work.
kyc in this case is only a "lets go the save route" for current laws that dont apply to the situation, which may destroy your reputation.

one of the biggest issue is that you want a 3rd party to controll the kyc data.
your security doesnt matter here. kyc data will be stolen or sold at one point in time.

What about hacks?

And here's some insight into what 'KYC' might include: 'it is now commonplace for an individual to have to submit a passport scan, bank statement, and various other documents and to answer a string of questions about their background and the origin of their cryptocurrency. Legolas, for example, requested that investors “Provide as much detail as possible about the origin of the BTC”.'

https://news.bitcoin.com/kyc-requirements-are-making-icos-riskier-not-safer/

great article with some really stupid comments.
really? na funds eu terror via ico? ok there is the money, what else they need, right, arsenal.
wait, i predict crypto warfare is the next big thing. need to stock up on cyber guns.
oh wait, already illegal unless issued by goverments. or are they?
pretty sure they are. however, why dont we only provide acceesss to the internets via passport.
aw crap, too late.

[AgentR]

Sounds scam, to take all your info and deny your coins if they deem you from 'the wrong country'. Sorry to see they are gonna keep your coins for themselves it seems. Anyone can send these yo-yos fake ID from online search anyways, how will they even know? Have fun looking at these ugly monkeys faces on ID @ nimiq hahahaha.

Surely they didn't have KYC requirements while selling their ICO. They never disclosed that some countries would be excluded from receiving their promised product, but just as well took your money. Sounds like they need 'cover' to steal your coins and still seem legitimate. Anyone else think this is fraud, or just me?

Here is ID, pls send NIM:

[Nimiq]

Sounds scam, to take all your info and deny your coins if they deem you from 'the wrong country'. Sorry to see they are gonna keep your coins for themselves it seems. Anyone can send these yo-yos fake ID from online search anyways, how will they even know? Have fun looking at these ugly monkeys faces on ID @ nimiq hahahaha.

Ensuring our project complies with regulations is the total opposite of Scam.

Surely they didn't have KYC requirements while selling their ICO. They never disclosed that some countries would be excluded from receiving their promised product, but just as well took your money. Sounds like they need 'cover' to steal your coins and still seem legitimate. Anyone else think this is fraud, or just me?

US was excluded from our Token Sale as well as in the NET-to-NIM replacement process, nothing changed there. Something tells me you didn't participate (or didn't checked the terms) in the Initial Token Generation of NET.

[Nimiq]

now there are two ways to look at the next step:
1. you BUY BACK OUR ERC-20 Token for your NIM coin at a fixxed rate, actually, your are my customer and i dont want kyc from you.

I don't understand why you think this is some kind of vendor/customer relationship.

2. we call it exchange, i change my NET Token on Ethereum for NIM on Nimiq. (now i see both scenarios doesnt have to include kyc)
--you really should have collected kyc at the net sale. do it now makes no sense whatsoever. because:
Nimiq Network mainnet goes live.
Nimiq Network continues to create NIM Coin, issued to miners (anonymous users of the nimiq network)

We couldn't have anticipated the current legal environment Blockchain projects are forced to deal with right now. But even though we didn't want to bother users with KYC last year during our Crowdsale, we still added this requirement in the terms you had to agree upon participating:

We may determine, for regulatory compliance purposes, that it is necessary to obtain certain information about you in order to comply with applicable laws or regulations in connection with accepting contributions to create and allocate NET to you or transfer NET to NIM. You agree to provide us such information promptly upon request.

now if you say you can only exchange NIM for NET if we provide KYC ultimately means that in future you,
HAVE TO get KYC from EACH and EVERY user of the NIMIQ Network because each address holds a share of the networks wealth.
it can only be used if people provide kyc. simple as that. imagen you are the new visa, visa work without documents? no.

No. We are only asking users to complete KYC in order to use NET-to-NIM replacement tool. That is all.

kyc in this case is only a "lets go the save route" for current laws that dont apply to the situation, which may destroy your reputation.

KYC is required at this point to ensure the project complies with regulations in several countries, this is obviously required for our project to be a success which is ultimately our main goal.

one of the biggest issue is that you want a 3rd party to controll the kyc data.

Using a 3rd party KYC provider is actually the safe a responsible way to go.

your security doesnt matter here. kyc data will be stolen or sold at one point in time.

Now this is just FUD and nonsense. We have carefully selected KYC providers than follow the most strict rules and security standards. This is a delicate part of the the process and of course we are taking it with all seriousness deserved by this matter.

And here's some insight into what 'KYC' might include: 'it is now commonplace for an individual to have to submit a passport scan, bank statement, and various other documents and to answer a string of questions about their background and the origin of their cryptocurrency. Legolas, for example, requested that investors “Provide as much detail as possible about the origin of the BTC”.'

https://news.bitcoin.com/kyc-requirements-are-making-icos-riskier-not-safer/

You are again just trying to create FUD. We will not require origin of BTC or any other Crypto. We won't ask any background information to the users, only basic personal information. As I have stated before:

In one end we are working with renowned KYC providers who follow the strictest security policies, and on the other, we have top cryptographers in our team, a security expert working with us as our internal auditor and a third-party auditor looking at our code. So is safe to say we care a lot about security. Regarding the information, we are still defining details with our KYC provider but for now I can comment that we are only going to ask personal information about the user. No weird questions or background information.

[IMZ]

The devs' responses to questions about the KYC destroyed our confidence in this project. We have sold our holdings.

IndiaMikeZulu, Australia

[poshat]

Fast and simple blockchain with small base - it's good idea. Respect!

[vortexz]

Which processor would be more effective, an Intel xeon server or Ryzen thread ripper

[Wekkel]

Ryzen I think. There is a table somewhere on the Internet with comparisons between CPUs.

[Nimiq]

We added Nimiq to the Cheddur app (https://www.cheddur.com)! This will allow new users to learn about Nimiq and join the community. Cheddur allows you to link wallets, exchanges, and other services that support NET so that new users can easily get started. You can also review the project and post your NET addresses on your profile to receive tips/payments/donations in NET from other users

Can others from the community please review the profile for quality and help add supported services? The more active the Nimiq profile is (via user reviews and addresses), the higher it ranks in search results and the more likely newcomers are to discover the Nimiq project!

Google Play Store: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.cheddur

iTunes: https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/cheddur/id1269377156?mt=8

Screenshots:

Cool. Thanks for the interest. Maybe you can tweet about it 

[Nimiq]

Ryzen I think. There is a table somewhere on the Internet with comparisons between CPUs.

There is a benchmark in nimiq.community/benchmark

[Nimiq]

The devs' responses to questions about the KYC destroyed our confidence in this project. We have sold our holdings.

IndiaMikeZulu, Australia

Considering :

• That users from Australia have no problem whatsoever in regards to KYC I don't see a reason why you would be concerned, let alone feel your confidence is destroyed.
• KYC process is required to ensure the project complies with regulations and increases chances to be successful in our goal of achieving crypto mainstream adoption.
• We will only require personal information, no background information or origin of crypto assets.
• The KYC process will be executed by third-party providers that follow the strictest rules regarding security and management of the information.

So given all the above, I can't seem to understand why you feel that way.

[Nimiq]

VLOG 46 Update: Nimiq Dev Team Grows Bigger

In this VLOG we Introduce some of our new team members that join our Dev Team.

For a developers reference of Nimiq check our new  Documentation.

[polylogic]

now there are two ways to look at the next step:
1. you BUY BACK OUR ERC-20 Token for your NIM coin at a fixxed rate, actually, your are my customer and i dont want kyc from you.

I don't understand why you think this is some kind of vendor/customer relationship.

what kind of relationship is this then?
digital goods got sold. a net Token in my wallet created by you for exchange in ether. it is nothing else than a presale of you token and you should look at this the same way.
you created NET and now you want to buy them back with NIM. i can also sell them for ether if i want to.

2. we call it exchange, i change my NET Token on Ethereum for NIM on Nimiq. (now i see both scenarios doesnt have to include kyc)
--you really should have collected kyc at the net sale. do it now makes no sense whatsoever. because:
Nimiq Network mainnet goes live.
Nimiq Network continues to create NIM Coin, issued to miners (anonymous users of the nimiq network)

We couldn't have anticipated the current legal environment Blockchain projects are forced to deal with right now. But even though we didn't want to bother users with KYC last year during our Crowdsale, we still added this requirement in the terms you had to agree upon participating:

We may determine, for regulatory compliance purposes, that it is necessary to obtain certain information about you in order to comply with applicable laws or regulations in connection with accepting contributions to create and allocate NET to you or transfer NET to NIM. You agree to provide us such information promptly upon request.

i understand that is difficult times. but it doesnt look like you have the interrest of your investor in mind and only the success of Nimiq which of course means positive for investors.
but like i said. we, the people that brought NET financed your way to Nimiq and now you say sorry some people cant be included in the success and yes nobody expected investor status by buying NET.
but now you ask something very important and special which should be handled with up most care. personal data. the link which i quote said it very clearly. you cannot simply change your user id once its out in the open.
you say its no problem with 3rd party providers? ..... but i get to this later.. lets stay on point...

if someone from the us invested in NET it should be his/her problem, not the problem on Nimiq.
he/she is supposed to know that he/she is not allowed to invest in oversea projects.
you cant be responsible for their action and for this dont have to put any borders on your crowdsale.

there is noone regulating the ico market and why should we let some rules from 2005 to fight terror and money laundering let dictate how this should be handled.
its like i said. to comply with KYC requirements you will have to ASK EVERY USER FOR THEIR DATA not just NET2NIM people. why do you want our data?
you maybe dont know it yet or you cant accept it, but google kyc, you will see.. once you go that route you cannot go back. im just trying to help.

now if you say you can only exchange NIM for NET if we provide KYC ultimately means that in future you,
HAVE TO get KYC from EACH and EVERY user of the NIMIQ Network because each address holds a share of the networks wealth.
it can only be used if people provide kyc. simple as that. imagen you are the new visa, visa work without documents? no.

No. We are only asking users to complete KYC in order to use NET-to-NIM replacement tool. That is all.

yes but why? i already told you why and you seem to ignore it.
NIM issued by Nimiq Foundation, to use/sell/buy NIM you need kyc or you do not comply with kyc anymore.
you ask some users but not others? how is this helping you or the users? it is not.

kyc in this case is only a "lets go the save route" for current laws that dont apply to the situation, which may destroy your reputation.

KYC is required at this point to ensure the project complies with regulations in several countries, this is obviously required for our project to be a success which is ultimately our main goal.

this is actually not true and you cannot point me to some law stating that you are required to do that.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Know_your_customer

here are some "guidelines" on german http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/DE/TXT/PDF/?uri=uriserv:OJ.L_.2005.309.01.0015.01.DEU
good luck finding them in english because this doesnt seem to have an official number xD
here is the AML/CFT file: https://www.legislation.gov.au/Details/F2016C01046 for US law..

i understand that you want the best for nimiq, but comply with kyc only for the Net2Nim doesnt make sense.
it does mean that each wallet "account" created on Nimiq does need to be kyc compliant.
why dont you do it like some other icos, put a limit for no kyc users. like max 5-10 ether or something.
i really dont see myself selling my id to you for a 3 ether investment which doesnt provide me future shares or something...

one of the biggest issue is that you want a 3rd party to controll the kyc data.

Using a 3rd party KYC provider is actually the safe a responsible way to go.

no its not, its lazy, cheap, irresponsible and intolerable
how can you guarantee for the safety of the data on a 3rd party server?
how can you guarantee that this 3rd party doesnt steal or sell the data?
how can you guarantee that the server of this 3rd party are not compromised?
do you have any control over the data or the 3rd party company?
i know everybody does this now.. but it doesnt make it right.
paypal has my data, why dont you sell your NET or NIM with paypal?

your security doesnt matter here. kyc data will be stolen or sold at one point in time.

Now this is just FUD and nonsense. We have carefully selected KYC providers than follow the most strict rules and security standards. This is a delicate part of the the process and of course we are taking it with all seriousness deserved by this matter.

http://www.informationisbeautiful.net/visualizations/worlds-biggest-data-breaches-hacks/
yes its a little fuddy, but better be safe than sorry, people shouldnt play with their id.
currently there are hacks which make every computer in this universe hackable and no patch will ever be able to fix it.
you cannot guarantee for the safty of our data. this 3rd party created in 2010 and maybe vanishes in 2020 with millions of data from icos.
its like i said, ask for kyc from all user or none... why presale only? please explain for people without knowlege about any of that.

And here's some insight into what 'KYC' might include: 'it is now commonplace for an individual to have to submit a passport scan, bank statement, and various other documents and to answer a string of questions about their background and the origin of their cryptocurrency. Legolas, for example, requested that investors “Provide as much detail as possible about the origin of the BTC”.'

https://news.bitcoin.com/kyc-requirements-are-making-icos-riskier-not-safer/

You are again just trying to create FUD. We will not require origin of BTC or any other Crypto. We won't ask any background information to the users, only basic personal information. As I have stated before:

there is a misunderstanding.. i believe origin of btc and other crypto are requirements of AML/CFT.
but this link has very important information for every user
and i quote:
It only takes one failure to expose an individual’s data once and for all time. Email and wallet addresses can be changed; passports and driving licenses are permanent

In one end we are working with renowned KYC providers who follow the strictest security policies, and on the other, we have top cryptographers in our team, a security expert working with us as our internal auditor and a third-party auditor looking at our code. So is safe to say we care a lot about security. Regarding the information, we are still defining details with our KYC provider but for now I can comment that we are only going to ask personal information about the user. No weird questions or background information.

[/quote]

well, only ask for information is fine.
ask for id is maybe too much.
ask for background of btc is way too much xD
i dont try to spread fud only want people to make the right decision.

[Nimiq]

i dont try to spread fud only want people to make the right decision.

Thanks for clearing that 

well, only ask for information is fine.
ask for id is maybe too much.
ask for background of btc is way too much xD

Yes, we are not going to ask for background information or the origin of BTC. But we do need your id. We don't like it either and we are working hard to make it as easy as possible for NET holders, but KYC process is something our legal advisers have strongly suggested for the sake of the future of the project.

one of the biggest issue is that you want a 3rd party to controll the kyc data.

Using a 3rd party KYC provider is actually the safe a responsible way to go.

no its not, its lazy, cheap, irresponsible and intolerable
how can you guarantee for the safety of the data on a 3rd party server?
how can you guarantee that this 3rd party doesnt steal or sell the data?
how can you guarantee that the server of this 3rd party are not compromised?
do you have any control over the data or the 3rd party company?

We strongly disagree, after studying every option carefully It is the safe and responsible way to do it, if you think different is your personal (uninformed) opinion. You're entitled to it, but if you think it is 'lazy, cheap and irresponsable' your are plain wrong, is exactly the opposite. How can we guarantee all that? The KYC provider follow strict legal regulations and using the data without our consent is punished by law as a crime.

kyc in this case is only a "lets go the save route" for current laws that dont apply to the situation, which may destroy your reputation.

KYC is required at this point to ensure the project complies with regulations in several countries, this is obviously required for our project to be a success which is ultimately our main goal.

this is actually not true and you cannot point me to some law stating that you are required to do that.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Know_your_customer

How can you know it is not true?. Again you are using your personal opinion as a fact. Our legal team has strongly adviced us to proceed with KYC. Nimiq is an open source payment protocol and our main goal is for it to be the native payment protocol of the web and we do trust our legal team is aligned with the same vision. If you want to enter into a debate based on your opinions about KYC and wikipedia links you are very welcome to do so, but it just has nothing to do with our project.

now there are two ways to look at the next step:
1. you BUY BACK OUR ERC-20 Token for your NIM coin at a fixxed rate, actually, your are my customer and i dont want kyc from you.

I don't understand why you think this is some kind of vendor/customer relationship.

what kind of relationship is this then?

Nimiq is an open source project and users who participated in our Crowdsale are supporters of the project. We do care a lot about our community and also have in our main interest the success of the project.

you maybe dont know it yet or you cant accept it, but google kyc, you will see.. once you go that route you cannot go back. im just trying to help.

if someone from the us invested in NET it should be his/her problem, not the problem on Nimiq.
he/she is supposed to know that he/she is not allowed to invest in oversea projects.
you cant be responsible for their action and for this dont have to put any borders on your crowdsale.

But we did.... I really feel like you are very much uninformed

First paragraph in 'NET (Token) Creation and Crowdsale Terms'... in bold with a bigger font size than the rest of the document

'IF YOU ARE A CITIZEN, RESIDENT, OR GREEN CARD HOLDER OF THE UNITED STATES OR IF YOU DO NOT AGREE TO THESE TERMS OF SALE, YOU CANNOT TAKE PART IN THE CROWDSALE, SO PLEASE DO NOT CONTRIBUTE IN THE CROWDSALE.'

We publicly commented from the beginning: US CITIZENS ARE NOT ALLOWED.

We blocked all IPs coming from the US to our website.

We included a paragraph about personal information:

'We may determine, for regulatory compliance purposes, that it is necessary to obtain certain information about you in order to comply with applicable laws or regulations in connection with accepting contributions to create and allocate NET to you or transfer NET to NIM. You agree to provide us such information promptly upon request.'

If you have any other questions please let me know, but I think you are mainly against KYC itself. We are not fans either but again, it is something we are required to do for the sake of the project. Thanks for your support 

[raoulsergia]

i dont try to spread fud only want people to make the right decision.

Thanks for clearing that  

well, only ask for information is fine.
ask for id is maybe too much.
ask for background of btc is way too much xD

Yes, we are not going to ask for background information or the origin of BTC. But we do need your id. We don't like it either and we are working hard to make it as easy as possible for NET holders, but KYC process is something our legal advisers have strongly suggested for the sake of the future of the project.

one of the biggest issue is that you want a 3rd party to controll the kyc data.

Using a 3rd party KYC provider is actually the safe a responsible way to go.

no its not, its lazy, cheap, irresponsible and intolerable
how can you guarantee for the safety of the data on a 3rd party server?
how can you guarantee that this 3rd party doesnt steal or sell the data?
how can you guarantee that the server of this 3rd party are not compromised?
do you have any control over the data or the 3rd party company?

We strongly disagree, after studying every option carefully It is the safe and responsible way to do it, if you think different is your personal (uninformed) opinion. You're entitled to it, but if you think it is 'lazy, cheap and irresponsable' your are plain wrong, is exactly the opposite. How can we guarantee all that? The KYC provider follow strict legal regulations and using the data without our consent is punished by law as a crime.

kyc in this case is only a "lets go the save route" for current laws that dont apply to the situation, which may destroy your reputation.

KYC is required at this point to ensure the project complies with regulations in several countries, this is obviously required for our project to be a success which is ultimately our main goal.

this is actually not true and you cannot point me to some law stating that you are required to do that.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Know_your_customer

How can you know it is not true?. Again you are using your personal opinion as a fact. Our legal team has strongly adviced us to proceed with KYC. Nimiq is an open source payment protocol and our main goal is for it to be the native payment protocol of the web and we do trust our legal team is aligned with the same vision. If you want to enter into a debate based on your opinions about KYC and wikipedia links you are very welcome to do so, but it just has nothing to do with our project.

now there are two ways to look at the next step:
1. you BUY BACK OUR ERC-20 Token for your NIM coin at a fixxed rate, actually, your are my customer and i dont want kyc from you.

I don't understand why you think this is some kind of vendor/customer relationship.

what kind of relationship is this then?

Nimiq is an open source project and users who participated in our Crowdsale are supporters of the project. We do care a lot about our community and also have in our main interest the success of the project.

you maybe dont know it yet or you cant accept it, but google kyc, you will see.. once you go that route you cannot go back. im just trying to help.

if someone from the us invested in NET it should be his/her problem, not the problem on Nimiq.
he/she is supposed to know that he/she is not allowed to invest in oversea projects.
you cant be responsible for their action and for this dont have to put any borders on your crowdsale.

But we did.... I really feel like you are very much uninformed

First paragraph in 'NET (Token) Creation and Crowdsale Terms'... in bold with a bigger font size than the rest of the document

'IF YOU ARE A CITIZEN, RESIDENT, OR GREEN CARD HOLDER OF THE UNITED STATES OR IF YOU DO NOT AGREE TO THESE TERMS OF SALE, YOU CANNOT TAKE PART IN THE CROWDSALE, SO PLEASE DO NOT CONTRIBUTE IN THE CROWDSALE.'

We publicly commented from the beginning: US CITIZENS ARE NOT ALLOWED.

We blocked all IPs coming from the US to our website.

We included a paragraph about personal information:

'We may determine, for regulatory compliance purposes, that it is necessary to obtain certain information about you in order to comply with applicable laws or regulations in connection with accepting contributions to create and allocate NET to you or transfer NET to NIM. You agree to provide us such information promptly upon request.'

If you have any other questions please let me know, but I think you are mainly against KYC itself. We are not fans either but again, it is something we are required to do for the sake of the project. Thanks for your support  

The KYC at the end makes it seem like a complete cash grab.
The reason for doing KYC is to know who the funds raised in the ICO come from.

A respectable project would do KYC before the ICO and not after it, not after close to 8 months of waiting to trade the real coins in...

Now when all those funds have been smoked for several months, this project wants to do KYC... based on legal advice.

This whole ICO has been a disaster when compared to other ICOs at that time.

Very close to be called a scam...

[polylogic]

We strongly disagree, after studying every option carefully It is the safe and responsible way to do it, if you think different is your personal (uninformed) opinion. You're entitled to it, but if you think it is 'lazy, cheap and irresponsable' your are plain wrong, is exactly the opposite. How can we guarantee all that? The KYC provider follow strict legal regulations and using the data without our consent is punished by law as a crime.

so you cannot guarantee that, exactly my point.
it is not your problem if the 3rd party gets legal trouble or might be punished by law.
and its not your problem if our data gets stolen, i understand that.
and i understand that i might sound paranoid, but i cannot stress this enough.
unless you have a continuing finanacial relationship with some website then you shouldnt send out your personal information
for example, in germany facebook just lost in court that people dont have to use their real names.

i know you try to make me mad by calling me uninformed but you see me throwing around facts and carefull selected questions you cant seem to able awnser.

thats exactly what we need now, people with opinions. thats the only way stuff gets regulated the right way.

but i know using a 3rd party provider saves you so much work and money that there is no way in these times that you could do this yourself. or could you?
and maybe save the data securely encrypted inside of your chain. but why bother, its just the legal status of nimiq, lets hand this over to a 3rd party. noone can blame us if we loose the data.

kyc in this case is only a "lets go the save route" for current laws that dont apply to the situation, which may destroy your reputation.

KYC is required at this point to ensure the project complies with regulations in several countries, this is obviously required for our project to be a success which is ultimately our main goal.

this is actually not true and you cannot point me to some law stating that you are required to do that.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Know_your_customer

How can you know it is not true?. Again you are using your personal opinion as a fact. Our legal team has strongly adviced us to proceed with KYC. Nimiq is an open source payment protocol and our main goal is for it to be the native payment protocol of the web and we do trust our legal team is aligned with the same vision. If you want to enter into a debate based on your opinions about KYC and wikipedia links you are very welcome to do so, but it just has nothing to do with our project.

because i know there is no court rule to enforce this. otherwise this would be all over the news and unless we dont have any laws and regulations everything we do creates the path into the future.
and thats exactly the time when people need to stand up and tell their opinion, tell that they are not ok with how some uninformed people want to run things.
i know you dont want to fight that fight and thats why you want to comply a little bit, but not all the way.
and there are no facts that proove you are right. and unless you cant proove that you "have to" then it simply is not true... the old rule... thats how i know its not based on my opinion.
seriously, why do you worry about kyc when ethereum didnt.
but yes, the opinion of your (i would like to think (because of what i said) "uninformed") legal team is better be save than sorry.  maybe they should think about their jobs and how much they could do once the legal trouble sets in because you didnt let some 3rd party grab all that data. i think yes, they want to go the save and easy route, who wants to fight for privacy right? ^^

now there are two ways to look at the next step:
1. you BUY BACK OUR ERC-20 Token for your NIM coin at a fixxed rate, actually, your are my customer and i dont want kyc from you.

I don't understand why you think this is some kind of vendor/customer relationship.

what kind of relationship is this then?

Nimiq is an open source project and users who participated in our Crowdsale are supporters of the project. We do care a lot about our community and also have in our main interest the success of the project.

you maybe dont know it yet or you cant accept it, but google kyc, you will see.. once you go that route you cannot go back. im just trying to help.

sorry, if you want to buy some NET with NIM you need to send me your ID and personal information, my legal advisor advised me to

if someone from the us invested in NET it should be his/her problem, not the problem on Nimiq.
he/she is supposed to know that he/she is not allowed to invest in oversea projects.
you cant be responsible for their action and for this dont have to put any borders on your crowdsale.

But we did.... I really feel like you are very much uninformed

First paragraph in 'NET (Token) Creation and Crowdsale Terms'... in bold with a bigger font size than the rest of the document

'IF YOU ARE A CITIZEN, RESIDENT, OR GREEN CARD HOLDER OF THE UNITED STATES OR IF YOU DO NOT AGREE TO THESE TERMS OF SALE, YOU CANNOT TAKE PART IN THE CROWDSALE, SO PLEASE DO NOT CONTRIBUTE IN THE CROWDSALE.'

We publicly commented from the beginning: US CITIZENS ARE NOT ALLOWED.

We blocked all IPs coming from the US to our website.

We included a paragraph about personal information:

'We may determine, for regulatory compliance purposes, that it is necessary to obtain certain information about you in order to comply with applicable laws or regulations in connection with accepting contributions to create and allocate NET to you or transfer NET to NIM. You agree to provide us such information promptly upon request.'

If you have any other questions please let me know, but I think you are mainly against KYC itself. We are not fans either but again, it is something we are required to do for the sake of the project. Thanks for your support  

yes sorry i didnt remember all the terms from your crowdsale a couple of months back, so much has happened...
but you had the rule already, thats great, noone from the us invested, awesome.. now... why kyc again? maybe that the right question: why did your legal team advise you to?
and yes your right i am against the kyc for some obvious reasons. centralized databases of personal ids with no oversight. oh boy, the history of the internet prooves nothing is safe unless offline.
however, its looks like this is the fist time kyc is something i have to think about, sadly you cant give me much reason why kyc is a good idea for your project and why not everybody has to do it.
but thanks for trying it was a pleasure

[Nimiq]

We strongly disagree, after studying every option carefully It is the safe and responsible way to do it, if you think different is your personal (uninformed) opinion. You're entitled to it, but if you think it is 'lazy, cheap and irresponsable' your are plain wrong, is exactly the opposite. How can we guarantee all that? The KYC provider follows strict legal regulations and using the data without our consent is punished by law as a crime.

so you cannot guarantee that, exactly my point.
it is not your problem if the 3rd party gets legal trouble or might be punished by law.
and its not your problem if our data gets stolen, i understand that.
and i understand that i might sound paranoid, but i cannot stress this enough.
unless you have a continuing finanacial relationship with some website then you shouldnt send out your personal information
for example, in germany facebook just lost in court that people dont have to use their real names.

We do guarantee that by using the best providers available with the safest and strictest regulations possible. Our KYC provider is currently used by businesses like Coinbase and Bittrex, where the data of the users is also very sensitive. We are paranoid about security too and we are trying everything in our hands to keep the information of users safe.

i know you try to make me mad by calling me uninformed but you see me throwing around facts and carefull selected questions you cant seem to able awnser.

thats exactly what we need now, people with opinions. thats the only way stuff gets regulated the right way.

but i know using a 3rd party provider saves you so much work and money that there is no way in these times that you could do this yourself. or could you?
and maybe save the data securely encrypted inside of your chain. but why bother, its just the legal status of nimiq, lets hand this over to a 3rd party. noone can blame us if we loose the data.

And again, this is plain, unaltered, out-of-the-box FUD  . You are saying we are giving information to a third party so we avoid responsibility in case of data loss? No, we most definitively are not.  As I stated before, using a third party KYC provider is the safe and responsible thing to do. It is madness to think a Blockchain Startup would dedicate time and effort building a one-time-only KYC infrastructure!. We would not be able to focus on what we do: Native Payment Protocol to the Web. It is, from all points of view, the wisest decision to use a provider who actually dedicates to the complex business of ID verification and anti-money laundering filtering. It is super delicate too, and these guys have been doing it for years with sensitive information like passports verification for flights and crypto platforms. If you analyze it objectively I think the decision makes a lot of sense.

kyc in this case is only a "lets go the save route" for current laws that dont apply to the situation, which may destroy your reputation.

KYC is required at this point to ensure the project complies with regulations in several countries, this is obviously required for our project to be a success which is ultimately our main goal.

this is actually not true and you cannot point me to some law stating that you are required to do that.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Know_your_customer

How can you know it is not true?. Again you are using your personal opinion as a fact. Our legal team has strongly adviced us to proceed with KYC. Nimiq is an open source payment protocol and our main goal is for it to be the native payment protocol of the web and we do trust our legal team is aligned with the same vision. If you want to enter into a debate based on your opinions about KYC and wikipedia links you are very welcome to do so, but it just has nothing to do with our project.

because i know there is no court rule to enforce this. otherwise this would be all over the news and unless we dont have any laws and regulations everything we do creates the path into the future.
and thats exactly the time when people need to stand up and tell their opinion, tell that they are not ok with how some uninformed people want to run things.
i know you dont want to fight that fight and thats why you want to comply a little bit, but not all the way.
and there are no facts that proove you are right. and unless you cant proove that you "have to" then it simply is not true... the old rule... thats how i know its not based on my opinion.
seriously, why do you worry about kyc when ethereum didnt.
but yes, the opinion of your (i would like to think (because of what i said) "uninformed") legal team is better be save than sorry.  maybe they should think about their jobs and how much they could do once the legal trouble sets in because you didnt let some 3rd party grab all that data. i think yes, they want to go the save and easy route, who wants to fight for privacy right? ^^

Blockchain is changing the world and there are a lot of good players and bad players in that game. We want to be the leading payment protocol for the Web, this is a totally different field than Ethereum, these are different times than the time when Ethereum launched, and more importantly, we are a whole different project. In the future we might need to partner with E-commerce sites, Web Platforms, International Community, and... who know what new technologies will emerge in the future. Our research has demonstrated we will have a higher opportunity to succeed in our main goal if we require KYC in these part of the process, that way we are safe and ready for regulation and rules any of these organizations, it is not only governmental regulations we have to be prepared for. Sorry if you don't understand this, but it is for the sake of the project.

if someone from the us invested in NET it should be his/her problem, not the problem on Nimiq.
he/she is supposed to know that he/she is not allowed to invest in oversea projects.
you cant be responsible for their action and for this dont have to put any borders on your crowdsale.

But we did.... I really feel like you are very much uninformed

First paragraph in 'NET (Token) Creation and Crowdsale Terms'... in bold with a bigger font size than the rest of the document

'IF YOU ARE A CITIZEN, RESIDENT, OR GREEN CARD HOLDER OF THE UNITED STATES OR IF YOU DO NOT AGREE TO THESE TERMS OF SALE, YOU CANNOT TAKE PART IN THE CROWDSALE, SO PLEASE DO NOT CONTRIBUTE IN THE CROWDSALE.'

We publicly commented from the beginning: US CITIZENS ARE NOT ALLOWED.

We blocked all IPs coming from the US to our website.

We included a paragraph about personal information:

'We may determine, for regulatory compliance purposes, that it is necessary to obtain certain information about you in order to comply with applicable laws or regulations in connection with accepting contributions to create and allocate NET to you or transfer NET to NIM. You agree to provide us such information promptly upon request.'

If you have any other questions please let me know, but I think you are mainly against KYC itself. We are not fans either but again, it is something we are required to do for the sake of the project. Thanks for your support 

yes sorry i didnt remember all the terms from your crowdsale a couple of months back, so much has happened...
but you had the rule already, thats great, noone from the us invested, awesome.. now... why kyc again? maybe that the right question: why did your legal team advise you to?
and yes your right i am against the kyc for some obvious reasons. centralized databases of personal ids with no oversight. oh boy, the history of the internet prooves nothing is safe unless offline.
however, its looks like this is the fist time kyc is something i have to think about, sadly you cant give me much reason why kyc is a good idea for your project and why not everybody has to do it.
but thanks for trying it was a pleasure

I'm also very romantic about decentralization and believe, I dream of a world where we can all fully benefit from it as a species. But I think that for that to happen we have to find a happy medium with the current regulations and continue moving forward to that dream. I'm really sorry if KYC is a true problem for you, I can tell you really support us and is not nice to ask a user to go through a process that they feel unhappy about. I really do hope you can understand our point of view and the reasons why we are doing this, and also continue supporting us.

I can conclude by telling you we honestly care a lot about the user's personal information, it will remain in the KYC provider only as long as strictly needed by us, and then they will delete it completely. And also that we wouldn't do this process if we didn't believe it will boost our potential for mainstream adoption. I hope you understand and I see around our community some time soon