Butterfly Labs Forced "On Hold For Refund" for all my Single SC orders

[nottm28]

Nah, I win either way.

No, you don't win either way because you are not in the BFL queue - (I'll buy BFL through my 'friends' yeah right) -

Who said anything about "my friends"?

You folks really should get a handle on your own minds. I said "third party".

they wouldn't accept your order and you know it - your motives are clear - you're happy to be a minority asic miner - you can't deny that.

?

Honestly (in all seriousness) you puzzle me when you say things like this. I did answer your question honestly.

As for Minority ASIC Minor....that just made my eyebrows go all haywire....

What do you mean by "Minority"? Avalon Batch 1 customer are the vast majority as of today. I am probably on 1 of 70 people who actually have one. Some ordered more than 1 unit.

As Batch 2 comes out from Avalon the exclusivity will be less and less. That is okay with me. I have multiple plans with each scenario.

-----------------

If you are going to say something, at least cross check with your own rational mind, that it actually makes sense to write it down.

warning - please don't try and get yourself an asic because I will no longer be in the minority...

[PuertoLibre]

Please, lay down the marijuana when posting...

[nottm28]

Please, lay down the marijuana when posting...

Did I touch a nerve? Sorry Puerto - just getting a bit sick of your 'I have a 60 GH/s asic and you dont' kinda posts...

[nottm28]

But I'd have thought you've had enough of BFL by now

Please don't assume. I'm merely poking a hole in your logic. Believe me. I'm not ever ordering another product from BFL. I can't. Won't even via proxy on principle.

Now, if BFL wants to make this right and turn me into a believer, well, shit... I should just wake up from that dream, huh ?

You know you are out of it now with BFL - move on

[PuertoLibre]

Please, lay down the marijuana when posting...

Did I touch a nerve? Sorry Puerto - just getting a bit sick of your 'I have a 60 GH/s asic and you dont' kinda posts...

You do realize I rarely mention it right?

[nottm28]

Please, lay down the marijuana when posting...

Did I touch a nerve? Sorry Puerto - just getting a bit sick of your 'I have a 60 GH/s asic and you dont' kinda posts...

You do realize I rarely mention it right?

Please don't ask me to post your quotes on how many times you have said 'I am an ASIC miner'...

[PuertoLibre]

Please, lay down the marijuana when posting...

Did I touch a nerve? Sorry Puerto - just getting a bit sick of your 'I have a 60 GH/s asic and you dont' kinda posts...

You do realize I rarely mention it right?

Please don't ask me to post your quotes on how many times you have said 'I am an ASIC miner'...

Go right ahead, you'll see it isn't the case.

The only recent times I have mentioned it is elsewhere on the forum. That was for looking for help with different pools. Beyond that, almost nothing.

By the way, go ahead and employ "page turning" techniques. As soon as your done, I'll go ahead and post the relevant stuff right at the top of the next page.

[Xian01]

... I'm moving on with investments in other ASIC operations and by continuing to shine the light on BFL's business practices.

 Additionally, welcome to my ignore list.

But I'd have thought you've had enough of BFL by now

Please don't assume. I'm merely poking a hole in your logic. Believe me. I'm not ever ordering another product from BFL. I can't. Won't even via proxy on principle.

Now, if BFL wants to make this right and turn me into a believer, well, shit... I should just wake up from that dream, huh ?

You know you are out of it now with BFL - move on

[Mabsark]

Please, lay down the marijuana when posting...

Did I touch a nerve? Sorry Puerto - just getting a bit sick of your 'I have a 60 GH/s asic and you dont' kinda posts...

You do realize I rarely mention it right?

Please don't ask me to post your quotes on how many times you have said 'I am an ASIC miner'...

Puerto's ramblings reminds me of this Eddie Murphy shit.

[nottm28]

Please, lay down the marijuana when posting...

Did I touch a nerve? Sorry Puerto - just getting a bit sick of your 'I have a 60 GH/s asic and you dont' kinda posts...

You do realize I rarely mention it right?

Please don't ask me to post your quotes on how many times you have said 'I am an ASIC miner'...

Go right ahead, you'll see it isn't the case.

The only recent times I have mentioned it is elsewhere on the forum. That was for looking for help with different pools. Beyond that, almost nothing.

By the way, go ahead and employ "page turning" techniques. As soon as your done, I'll go ahead and post the relevant stuff right at the top of the next page.

Having read your rants I would be amazed if you didn't reply to posters like me who are fed up with your 'I am asic miner' posts.

All I had to do was google 'I am asic miner' - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1976.msg1983200#msg1983200

There's loads more...

[nottm28]

Puerto's ramblings reminds me of this Eddie Murphy shit.

At least Eddie Murphy was funny sometimes

[PuertoLibre]

Please, lay down the marijuana when posting...

Did I touch a nerve? Sorry Puerto - just getting a bit sick of your 'I have a 60 GH/s asic and you dont' kinda posts...

You do realize I rarely mention it right?

Please don't ask me to post your quotes on how many times you have said 'I am an ASIC miner'...

Puerto's ramblings reminds me of this Eddie Murphy shit.

Thats some impressive logic right there. You could be an Olympic Gold medalist with the mental Gymnastic you just performed there.

Having read your rants I would be amazed if you didn't reply to posters like me who are fed up with your 'I am asic miner' posts.

All I had to do was google 'I am asic miner' - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1976.msg1983200#msg1983200

There's loads more...

No kidding genius, that is what I mentioned earlier. Exactly as described.

Tell me, what does it feel like to be "stupid"? Is it painless? Does it hurt at all (especially around the head area)?

[nottm28]

Tell me, what does it feel like to be "stupid"? Is it painless? Does it hurt at all (especially around the head area)?

2 nil - you are cooking man - warning - others will have an asic soon

[Syke]

Which is why I didn't put all my eggs in one basket. I've got Avalon chips on order as well. My guess is that the Avalon chips show up before the BFL.

You can count on the Avalon chips arriving months ahead of the BFL unit. Smart move. The Avalon chips will make up for your losses from ordering a BFL.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

I was speaking hypothetically in the realm of "if BFL was able to ship right now in volume"

This would rely on the assumption of two things: that they could fill their existing orders of $125/$275 quickly, and that every new order placed could be priced at roughly 14-15x the current price - and people would pay it (following that people paid that much per mh/s on the USB miners)

It's very simple to logically believe that IF BFL could ship right now, they would, because they would have a monopoly on ASIC sales given their hash rates... and they could charge a LOT more for each unit.  

The money they could make in BTC a day would be nothing compared to the $ they could be bringing in and then just converting to BTC

Sure, assuming they could price their product 15x and ship in bulk right now, then they would be better off shipping product. However, I don't believe they can do either.

The ASICMiner product is not really competitive. Even so, it and the Avalon chip sails have already sucked up a lot of capital that would have otherwise gone to BFL. Also, both products are being sold at inflated prices. If BFL actually enters the market, Avalon and ASICMiner could revise their prices down to compete.

But they're not capable of or willing to ship in quantity either. A couple hundred units from Avalon? So what? They aren't capable or or interested in shipping in quantity.

1 Avalon unit is 66GH/s, more than 10x the performance of 1 BFL Jalapeno (the only BFL unit that has left their facility). Each Avalon unit has 3x88 chips in it (IIRC) so that is (300 batch 1 units + 300 batch 2 units ) x (3 x 88) = 158,400 chips. That is volume. Also, they have sold another 400,000+ chips to the DIY and group buy crowd. That is shipping ASICs in volume. BFL by contrast has moved maybe 3 dozen ASIC chips.

And neither is ASIC Miner. They've said several times that the only reason they're actually selling at all, is that they can't bring more equipment online until there's mor hashing power out there, to prevent 51% of network share. So they're only selling in the mean time. Once BFL comes online, full-force, Avalon is toast, because they can't produce at speed or quantity, and ASIC Miner are gonners too, because they don't even want to be in the retail game in the first place.

BFL miners compete with both ASICMiner retail and ASICMiner mining operation. So the ROI on BFL units does not distinguish between ASICMiner chips.

If BFL starts shipping in quantity, difficulty is going to SKYROCKET, and that will create even MORE demand for their product. Anybody who spends more than a few cursory seconds on this realizes that there's WAY MORE money in selling the 'shovels' than there is in mining.

Guaranteed, there's nobody who wants BFL up and producing (and shipping) at maximum capacity more than BFL does.

The facts do not bear out your statement. $2700 per day per 500GH/s for mining in the short term vs $5000 to $10000 profit per 500GH/s selling. It makes more sense to mine first, then ship. Only after the difficulty rises or the price of USD/BTC falls will the tide shift. Don't forget, BFL can mine and ship, they do not have to choose one or the other.

Per chip "quantity" isn't relevant to tapping the market, because the majority of the market doesn't need or want an $8000 mining machine that consumes 5 times as much power and costs 2-4 times as much to purchase. ROI on BFL units does not distringuish between ASICMiner chips? What does that even mean? ASICMINER will NOT be selling units, as soon as they've got some competition. Meaning the ONLY "ROI" that will be factored will be the buyers of BFL (and a few Avalon) units.

What do you mean it makes more sense to mine first and then ship? Mine with how much, for how long? If they're mining, where is the hashing power hiding out? Where's your evidence that they are (or even intend to) mine with their customers' products before shipping them?  

Shy of having direct proof that such is or will occur, there now is a way for BFL to mine with their units prior to shipping undetected. How? Since a myriad of other ASIC-base miners are in the wild, they can easily connect to other reputable pools not their own anonymously, get paid bitcoins from various sources. There would be no way to track them short of the pool owner(s) disclosing private information like an IP address, etc.

They could easily add 500GH/s and nobody would notice if they used multiple pools.

EDIT: I just read the above quote.

Xian, how BFL found out your order details? I mean dude, what do you thinking when writing post in such tone if you knew they know your info and that they could easilly do this?

 I made the mistake of thinking they wouldn't stoop to that level. It's non-trivial for BFL to link this username to their customer database. Another mistake of mine for using this moniker.

 It's telling that they decided to punish me for calling their COO out on admitting these forums were not important to their business, along with other vitriolic nonsense. I guess that was another lie as apparently these forums are important enough to cancel disgruntled former customers' order, for expressing their displeasure.

 It's almost like they have something to hide, and I just can't get the image of Josh Zerlan as "The Soup Nazi" out of my mind.

 *shrugs*

If you happened to bug the shit out of BFL via emails, then I could possibly see a slight reason for their actions. But if you're telling me that you only once or trice complained via email, but they reversed engineered your user account ID on this forum (and/or possibly their's) because of your critical posts toward them, then BFL has severe mental issues.

That tells me that they took the time and energy that could have been used elsewhere to punish you by refunding your money, and now they don't have to worry about the trade in you were planning on sending them (gleaned from your post history).

Please enlighten me as to which is the case: too many emails to them or they purposely hunted you down. Please be as straight up as possible with your answer, bud.

Also, aren't there several others hyper-critical of BFL who have orders on the books? Aren't they, too, now is danger of having their order(s) canceled simple due to their post history?

[Xian01]

I've never complained via email. The only email correspondance I have had with them was strictly business; for the refund of my Single SC's, an FPGA single order back in ~Mar 2011, and an email for repair of a bad fan in the FPGA. Probably ~5-8 emails in total over my business relationship with them over the last couple years.

The only places I have complained were here on these forums, and trolling Josh about the 1000 BTC charity bet on the BFL shoutbox before he silenced me.

My email address starts with "xian" so it's not a far stretch to match that to their customer database after speaking to the fact that I had early orders.

I was purposely hunted down to be punished and silenced. There is no other rational explanation I can think of.

If you happened to bug the shit out of BFL via emails, then I could possibly see a slight reason for their actions. But if you're telling me that you only once or trice complained via email, but they reversed engineered your user account ID on this forum (and/or possibly their's) because of your critical posts toward them, then BFL has severe mental issues.

That tells me that they took the time and energy that could have been used elsewhere to punish you by refunding your money, and now they don't have to worry about the trade in you were planning on sending them (gleaned from your post history).

Please enlighten me as to which is the case: too many emails to them or they purposely hunted you down. Please be as straight up as possible with your answer, bud.

[Unacceptable]

http://imgur.com/aaYi5A1


https://twitter.com/tspyz/status/335609327979216897/photo/1

[Phinnaeus Gage]

I've never complained via email. The only email correspondance I have had with them was strictly business; for the refund of my Single SC's, an FPGA single order back in ~Mar 2011, and an email for repair of a bad fan in the FPGA. Probably ~5-8 emails in total over my business relationship with them over the last couple years.

The only places I have complained were here on these forums, and trolling Josh about the 1000 BTC charity bet on the BFL shoutbox before he silenced me.

My email address starts with "xian" so it's not a far stretch to match that to their customer database after speaking to the fact that I had early orders.

I was purposely hunted down to be punished and silenced. There is not other rational explanation I can think of.

If you happened to bug the shit out of BFL via emails, then I could possibly see a slight reason for their actions. But if you're telling me that you only once or trice complained via email, but they reversed engineered your user account ID on this forum (and/or possibly their's) because of your critical posts toward them, then BFL has severe mental issues.

That tells me that they took the time and energy that could have been used elsewhere to punish you by refunding your money, and now they don't have to worry about the trade in you were planning on sending them (gleaned from your post history).

Please enlighten me as to which is the case: too many emails to them or they purposely hunted you down. Please be as straight up as possible with your answer, bud.

I will accept your answer as gospel, Xian.

THEYMOS, WE HAVE A PROBLEM!!!

This stinks on so many levels, I don't know where to begin. One thing is for sure, anybody who has invested early with BFL and has shown discontent is in danger of having their order canceled at any time, especially if you have a trade in, for obviously it's to their best interest to not get it back--even if they had room in their warehouse.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

http://imgur.com/aaYi5A1

https://twitter.com/tspyz/status/335609327979216897/photo/1

<second image>

Reminds me of Matthew's eLete (or was it Ellet or Eleet?).

[PuertoLibre]

http://imgur.com/aaYi5A1

https://twitter.com/tspyz/status/335609327979216897/photo/1

<second image>

Reminds me of Matthew's eLete (or was it Ellet or Eleet?).

Blue cable = USB 3.0? (30watts when powered)

Too bad Avalon hasn't thought of making a thunderbolt powered ASIC Miner. (a really small and efficient one)