Butterfly Labs Forced "On Hold For Refund" for all my Single SC orders

[int03h]

Look at my account creation date.. you fucking idiot. Just because I decided to call you lot a bunch of names now doesn't mean I am any less worthy. I could easily scream persecution .. but I won't because I am not a fag like Xian.

That's not what it looks like to the rest of us.

So the burden of proof is on me ? 

[drlukacs]

There's nothing wrong with discontinuing a toxic business relationship. You have every right to talk all the shit you want. And they have a right to end the business relationship. It's not "censorship" to say, "If you trash our company, we won't do business with you anymore." You're still free to say whatever you want. Their response will be to simply put your money where your mouth is, on your behalf. Don't trust the company? Don't like the company? Think it's a scam? Thinking about suing if you don't get your order next week?

"Fine. Here's your money. Fuck off."

You are quite right, but one thing: A seller cannot cancel a contract of sale unilaterally. Such an action has very serious legal consequences, and if the reason for doing so is malicious (i.e., to retaliate for negative comments made on a forum), then I could easily see punitive damages being awarded in top of compensatory ones.

[int03h]

Wait a minute here... I am reprehensible for standing up for myself getting absolutely terrible treatment as an initial preorder customer over the last 11 months ? For enduring their COO acting completely unprofessionally on these forums and calling him on his behavior ?

I am sorry that you have such low self esteem and say "Why yes please, I would like some more un-lubed sodomy at the hands of Butterfly Labs for not being able to accurately state when my preorder will ship after waiting for 11 months of one broken promise after another."

 Some of us have less tolerance for prolonged bullshit and fight for ourselves when we feel wronged.

 I need to most strenuously disagree with your evaluation and you should feel ashamed that you are willing to be taken advantage of.

And here you are perpetuating the same behaviour that got you here and seeking validation ... keep on truckin big boy the hole only gets deeper.

For the record

"I do not accept BFL's treatment of there customers"

"I do not accept the continuous lies and fraudulent behavior by BFL"

"I do not accept trying to silence people who have been mistreated by BFL"

What do u stand for again because i am missing your actual point in all of these discussions ??

None of your statements are based on facts. All of them are opinions. That is all.

....yawn... i think these are all facts....

They had a prototype in June/July/August/Sept/Oct ..yeah this is true ...or they finally have a prototype in April 2013

The many documented of you/Josh/Inaba calling his customers cocksuckers/losers the list goes on..I would class that as mistreatment of his customers

Jody holding the I will cancel your orders over peoeples heads if they start to complain..

These are all facts and not opinions ..I understand when u lie so much that all reality starts to blur and this would be hard for u to deal with

See you don't answer the question directly.

If it was facts it would look like this

The Sky is Blue:
No it is Red

I like Cock:
No I prefer Ass

Your Mom is a Man:
No it is my Uncle

See thats how it goes. There is no room for speculation. It is just facts.. See if you can do it .. try ..

I think their treatment/behavior is all on record ...these are what are called facts

Sonnys conviction and time spent in prison for FRAUD is a fact...thats about all I have got for u in regards to this as If you want to continue to try and distort reality .....I cant help you... sorry

I THINK .. see here is the problem .. don't think .. be sure.

Oh josh..ur ability to try and divert from an issue is really getting played out ...why dont your deliver on your commitments or refund everybodys orders

Your days are numbered and also are the mistreatment of your customers or do u guys call  them "marks"  

I am flattered that you think I am Josh. Thank you.. I am printing this one out for posterity.

You do that ... while you are at the printer why dont you print out every oustanding order and just look at them for a while

I never said I have any orders. Again you assume and project..

[Xian01]

You are quite right, but one thing: A seller cannot cancel a contract of sale unilaterally. Such an action has very serious legal consequences, and if the reason for doing so is malicious (i.e., to retaliate for negative comments made on a forum), then I could easily see punitive damages being awarded in top of compensatory ones.

 Hopefully the FTC and Missouri AG see it that way as well.

[drlukacs]

You are quite right, but one thing: A seller cannot cancel a contract of sale unilaterally. Such an action has very serious legal consequences, and if the reason for doing so is malicious (i.e., to retaliate for negative comments made on a forum), then I could easily see punitive damages being awarded in top of compensatory ones.

 Hopefully the FTC and Missouri AG see it that way as well.

What about small claims court?

[Xian01]

You are quite right, but one thing: A seller cannot cancel a contract of sale unilaterally. Such an action has very serious legal consequences, and if the reason for doing so is malicious (i.e., to retaliate for negative comments made on a forum), then I could easily see punitive damages being awarded in top of compensatory ones.

Hopefully the FTC and Missouri AG see it that way as well.

What about small claims court?

Not sure it's worth the hassle. Just glad to be done with Butterfly Labs as a customer to be honest. Will support other companies in Bitcoinia instead.

[firefop]

You are quite right, but one thing: A seller cannot cancel a contract of sale unilaterally. Such an action has very serious legal consequences, and if the reason for doing so is malicious (i.e., to retaliate for negative comments made on a forum), then I could easily see punitive damages being awarded in top of compensatory ones.

 Hopefully the FTC and Missouri AG see it that way as well.

What about small claims court?

Exactly what damage would he be able to claim? Anyone is able to cancel a sales contract at will unless the contract actually has terms that prevent it. There simply isn't a case here. Only if the seller had kept the money and the product... then there would be damage to be claimed. With a forced refund there's literally no case.

[drlukacs]

What about small claims court?

Exactly what damage would he be able to claim? Anyone is able to cancel a sales contract at will unless the contract actually has terms that prevent it. There simply isn't a case here. Only if the seller had kept the money and the product... then there would be damage to be claimed. With a forced refund there's literally no case.

I am afraid you are incorrect. Contracts of sale cannot be unilaterally cancelled unless the contract explicitly allows for doing so.

Just imagine that we agree today that I would deliver you 10 bushels of wheat in 3 months for a given price. If 2 months later the price goes up, I cannot unilaterally cancel the contract and give you a refund.

As for damages, one can calculate the earning capabilities of the item that was ordered, and one can seek compensation for a reasonable period (few years) of use. It would be several thousand dollars at the very least.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

What type of person raised, and provided for, by a step-dad who earned an honest living and sends him to college upon leaving the nest, to only quit college to travel the world, eventually ending up at his real dad's Laissez Faire City pad, joining forces with him in amassing loot from the unexpected, then later in life returns to the nest, vowing that he's changed his ways, but shows all the signs that he hasn't?

Worse yet, what type of people would work for such a man given, or previously knowing his track record?

What type of people would order product, then refuse to cancel their pre-orders once the facts are presented?

What type of person defends their lack of action by stating that they've known the risk, and others shouldn't be telling others that investing in BFL is unwise.

I'm glad I'm not one of them people.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

I am afraid you are incorrect. Contracts of sale cannot be unilaterally cancelled unless the contract explicitly allows for doing so.

Actually, legally all people who've pre-ordered should have had all their moneys returned after X days, as proven by a many members on this forum.

[Bicknellski]

https://support.google.com/adsense/answer/180609?hl=en

https://support.google.com/adsense/answer/164657?hl=en&ref_topic=23390

Block their Ads... and report them for misleading information. This is how we as consumers can fight back.



https://support.google.com/adwords/contact/site_policy?utm_source=policyhc&utm_medium=contact_site_policy&utm_campaign=1050602

https://support.google.com/adwords/answer/176378?hl=en

User safety

What's the policy?

This comprehensive policy was developed to help protect users from ads, websites, and businesses that appear to be generally deceptive or misleading, and/or violate our AdWords Terms and Conditions.

Google AdWords requires that advertisers provide transparency into the business and product that's being promoted. Google also requires that advertisers set realistic expectations about what their products and services can do for their users.

Requirements

Don't make misleading claims

Promote products with realistic, credible, and reasonable claims. For example, don't promote "get rich quick" programs.
Provide users with accurate information about the risks associated with their product or service.
Include links to third-party verification and/or include relevant and easy to find disclaimers when testimonials and endorsements imply that results are typical.
Include links to third-party accreditation/endorsement where affiliation is implied – for example, if a website claims to be affiliated with a governmental agency, a link to verification of this affiliation should be included. Use of "gov" or "government" in display URLs and/or use of government emblems may imply affiliation with a government agency and should be verified.

Promote acceptable business models

Make it clear to users what your business does and how it works.
Provide a good user experience and maintain a strong online reputation.
Make sure that your sites display any relevant disclaimers or announcements that may be required by local law. For example, certain types of financial service providers may need to include specific text per governmental regulations.

Promote transparency and accuracy

As online advertising and local laws and regulations are constantly evolving, we can't provide an exhaustive list of the kinds of sites and ads that might be in violation of this policy. Please use the below list as guidance, keeping in mind that the principles behind the policy are the promotion of transparency, accuracy, and honesty in advertising.

[Bicknellski]

http://www.michele.me/blog/archives/2007/04/reporting-false-advertising-to-google/

[firefop]

What about small claims court?

Exactly what damage would he be able to claim? Anyone is able to cancel a sales contract at will unless the contract actually has terms that prevent it. There simply isn't a case here. Only if the seller had kept the money and the product... then there would be damage to be claimed. With a forced refund there's literally no case.

I am afraid you are incorrect. Contracts of sale cannot be unilaterally cancelled unless the contract explicitly allows for doing so.

Just imagine that we agree today that I would deliver you 10 bushels of wheat in 3 months for a given price. If 2 months later the price goes up, I cannot unilaterally cancel the contract and give you a refund.

As for damages, one can calculate the earning capabilities of the item that was ordered, and one can seek compensation for a reasonable period (few years) of use. It would be several thousand dollars at the very least.

What you've described is in fact a very specific type of sales contract usually called a "forward contract" - If the buyer could produce such a contact then there would be a legitimate case for damages incurred. However, never was any such contract offered by BFL... so I doubt the OP has such.

[Bicknellski]

https://support.google.com/adwords/contact/feedback

FEEDBACK!

Don't let these guys get away with misleading ads. REPORT THEM.

http://butterflylabs.com/landing/landing-ls.php

[drlukacs]

I am afraid you are incorrect. Contracts of sale cannot be unilaterally cancelled unless the contract explicitly allows for doing so.

Just imagine that we agree today that I would deliver you 10 bushels of wheat in 3 months for a given price. If 2 months later the price goes up, I cannot unilaterally cancel the contract and give you a refund.

As for damages, one can calculate the earning capabilities of the item that was ordered, and one can seek compensation for a reasonable period (few years) of use. It would be several thousand dollars at the very least.

What you've described is in fact a very specific type of sales contract usually called a "forward contract" - If the buyer could produce such a contact then there would be a legitimate case for damages incurred. However, never was any such contract offered by BFL... so I doubt the OP has such.

I respectfully disagree with what you say.  What is special about a "forward contract" is that the delivery may be well in the future, and in most cases so is the payment.

In the case of BFL, they accepted payment now, and promise to deliver. Failure to deliver on time (or within reasonable time) is a breach of contract.

For example, if I sell you my car, and you pay me the price, then I cannot unilaterally change my mind, and simply give you back your money. I will also have to pay you all damages that you incurred from my failure to honour the contract.

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contract#Remedies_for_breach_of_contract and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breach_of_contract

[int03h]

You are quite right, but one thing: A seller cannot cancel a contract of sale unilaterally. Such an action has very serious legal consequences, and if the reason for doing so is malicious (i.e., to retaliate for negative comments made on a forum), then I could easily see punitive damages being awarded in top of compensatory ones.

Hopefully the FTC and Missouri AG see it that way as well.

What about small claims court?

Not sure it's worth the hassle. Just glad to be done with Butterfly Labs as a customer to be honest. Will support other companies in Bitcoinia instead.

You should try Judge Judy .. she hears all sorts of bullshit based on half contrived cock and ass bullshit..

Did you fuck you car in the process of being a moron ?? SOLD .. Wed Afternoon at 2pm .. lets see how this pans out ..

[k9quaint]

I am afraid you are incorrect. Contracts of sale cannot be unilaterally cancelled unless the contract explicitly allows for doing so.

Just imagine that we agree today that I would deliver you 10 bushels of wheat in 3 months for a given price. If 2 months later the price goes up, I cannot unilaterally cancel the contract and give you a refund.

As for damages, one can calculate the earning capabilities of the item that was ordered, and one can seek compensation for a reasonable period (few years) of use. It would be several thousand dollars at the very least.

What you've described is in fact a very specific type of sales contract usually called a "forward contract" - If the buyer could produce such a contact then there would be a legitimate case for damages incurred. However, never was any such contract offered by BFL... so I doubt the OP has such.

I respectfully disagree with what you say.  What is special about a "forward contract" is that the delivery may be well in the future, and in most cases so is the payment.

In the case of BFL, they accepted payment now, and promise to deliver. Failure to deliver on time (or within reasonable time) is a breach of contract.

For example, if I sell you my car, and you pay me the price, then I cannot unilaterally change my mind, and simply give you back your money. I will also have to pay you all damages that you incurred from my failure to honour the contract.

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contract#Remedies_for_breach_of_contract and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breach_of_contract

I step away from the thread for some poker and it asplodes. So much fun.  

The sale of goods that do not yet exist is a future or forward contract. All future contracts have time value.
Earlier in the thread the claim was made by some BFL proponents that Xian's contract could have been sold for 5x what he paid for it. When BFL canceled it without recourse they caused $20,000 damages to Xian. He could take them to court on that basis alone.
Misrepresentations about the state of the product + damages + Consumer Protection laws = Judge hearing the case.

[int03h]

I am afraid you are incorrect. Contracts of sale cannot be unilaterally cancelled unless the contract explicitly allows for doing so.

Just imagine that we agree today that I would deliver you 10 bushels of wheat in 3 months for a given price. If 2 months later the price goes up, I cannot unilaterally cancel the contract and give you a refund.

As for damages, one can calculate the earning capabilities of the item that was ordered, and one can seek compensation for a reasonable period (few years) of use. It would be several thousand dollars at the very least.

What you've described is in fact a very specific type of sales contract usually called a "forward contract" - If the buyer could produce such a contact then there would be a legitimate case for damages incurred. However, never was any such contract offered by BFL... so I doubt the OP has such.

I respectfully disagree with what you say.  What is special about a "forward contract" is that the delivery may be well in the future, and in most cases so is the payment.

In the case of BFL, they accepted payment now, and promise to deliver. Failure to deliver on time (or within reasonable time) is a breach of contract.

For example, if I sell you my car, and you pay me the price, then I cannot unilaterally change my mind, and simply give you back your money. I will also have to pay you all damages that you incurred from my failure to honour the contract.

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contract#Remedies_for_breach_of_contract and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breach_of_contract

No .. you sign a sales contract which specifies the price and the contract which details the terms of the sale.. usually the contract is binding upon two conditions 1) the money being paid 2) the car being taken.  Both of which are considered binding separately and indivisibly . i.e. if you take the car you are required to pay the money or if you take the money you are going to take the car.

So .. if condition 1 is not met then condition 2 cannot be met either.. i.e. if you don't actually have the car in hand you can't be expected to hand over the money. To be even less blunt .. you can't demand possession of something just because you have the money in hand to pay for it.

Logic is funny mother fucker .. it works both ways .. somehow.. bastard

[k9quaint]

um dumb ass you said he had a case base on implied contract.

Implied warranty specifically. He does.

.. and then you said yeah that's not true in my next post.

No, then you started talking about Missouri state laws and I posted the relevant consumer protection act provisions which BFL is also clearly in violation of.

. .after you put me in the position to create the fact based argument for you..  .. not only were you wrong, but you were lazy (I'm apparently your personal wikipedia), so no you don't get to say your had it right all along. . .. .like I told you before.  .or at least the thread.. .. .look up "Duke Nukem'' receipt on google.. . . .and in true xian repetitive fashion.. .eat a bag of dicks

You didn't supply any facts, only some vague reference to the UCC.

Also, you still don't have an example of a major retailer who charges full price for pre-orders eh? The duke nukem pre-orders were deposits, not full charges (the CC companies would have charged them back after 30 days otherwise). So you default on all arguments. You fell apart rapidly when faced with facts and resorted to angry insults hurled at me.

More interesting however is this:
When you got really angry at me, you started separating phraselets with 2-5 dots. I checked his post history and int30h places 2-5 dots between his phraselets as well. Nobody else in this thread does that. In fact, it is not a punctuation form at all. More of a typing tic. Very unusual. Did you let something slip while you were angry?

Edit: And every single post by int30h that was not in the newbie forum is in this thread. All but 4 of Endlessa's posts that are not in the newbie forum are posts in this thead as well. And when I started making fun of int30h, Endlessa got furious with me and stopped his discussion and switched to insults. Obvious sockpuppet is obvious?

[Bicknellski]

um dumb ass you said he had a case base on implied contract.

Implied warranty specifically. He does.

.. and then you said yeah that's not true in my next post.

No, then you started talking about Missouri state laws and I posted the relevant consumer protection act provisions which BFL is also clearly in violation of.

. .after you put me in the position to create the fact based argument for you..  .. not only were you wrong, but you were lazy (I'm apparently your personal wikipedia), so no you don't get to say your had it right all along. . .. .like I told you before.  .or at least the thread.. .. .look up "Duke Nukem'' receipt on google.. . . .and in true xian repetitive fashion.. .eat a bag of dicks

You didn't supply any facts, only some vague reference to the UCC.

Also, you still don't have an example of a major retailer who charges full price for pre-orders eh? The duke nukem pre-orders were deposits, not full charges (the CC companies would have charged them back after 30 days otherwise). So you default on all arguments. You fell apart rapidly when faced with facts and resorted to angry insults hurled at me.

More interesting however is this:
When you got really angry at me, you started separating phraselets with 2-5 dots. I checked his post history and int30h places 2-5 dots between his phraselets as well. Nobody else in this thread does that. In fact, it is not a punctuation form at all. More of a typing tic. Very unusual. Did you let something slip while you were angry?

Edit: And every single post by int30h that was not in the newbie forum is in this thread. All but 4 of Endlessa's posts that are not in the newbie forum are posts in this thead as well. And when I started making fun of int30h, Endlessa got furious with me and stopped his discussion and switched to insults. Obvious sockpuppet is obvious?

Yup.... their new "campaign" to be better in customer relations seems to have hit another snag especially when they continually propagate accounts that are pretty transparent shills for BFL. Sad.