Religious beliefs on bitcoin

[BitChick]

Rassah,  just ignore crumbcake.  I am not sure how it degenerated to this?    I thought we were having a nice deep discussion here.  Sigh. Oh well. . .

[crumbcake]

For your "consciousness" to do anything, something must first cause it to do so.  In a causally-bound universe, there are no uncaused events, no free volition.  So your consciousness is as predetermined as everything else, just a slightly more intricate clockwork.  Try again?

Is it? Are you so certain? Call it god of the gaps, if you want, but sapience, consciousness, volition, seems to me to be the one "uncaused" thing in this universe. I can decide that I want to, or do not want to, reply to your next post, and that decision influences my brain state, which in turn changes my actions. It's not a probabilistic function, nor a determinative one. It is a volitional act.

So you believe that some things fall outside of causation?  Your conscience, for one, is not bound by the same rules that govern the rest of the universe?  What exactly made your councience so special ... oh, wait, i said "made," that causal trap again...

I've written chatbots (slightly more complex washing machines) which would have discussed Kant much better than 90% of the folks i know.  What's your point?

I'm sure you could.

  Not could -- did

But it wouldn't be that chat bot discussing Kant. It would be you, putting your thoughts on his philosophy into a text file, from which the bot would choose, based on the question asked it. It's just a sophisticated way for you to discuss Kant with many people all at once.

Wait, are you saying if i was a Christian, by talking to people i'd be conversing with ... God?

[Rassah]

Rassah,  just ignore crumbcake.  I am not sure how it degenerated to this?    I thought we were having a nice deep discussion here.  Sigh. Oh well. . .

If it's all the same to you, I feel as if our discussion has come to a really nice and amenable end, and I wouldn't want it to get mired in crap again, so I'd like to leave it where it is  

[myrkul]

Rassah,  just ignore crumbcake.  

This is good advice. If you wish to comment on anything I or Rassah have said, I'd be interested in hearing it.

[BitChick]

Rassah,  just ignore crumbcake.  

This is good advice. If you wish to comment on anything I or Rassah have said, I'd be interested in hearing it.

Myrkul- you are posts are beyond my mental capabilities so could not comment even if I wanted to unfortunately.

As for crumbcake:

Nutsacks and F'bombs.  Need I say more?  

But then I am not a guy.  Maybe it is a "male bonding thing" I just don't get.  

[myrkul]

Rassah,  just ignore crumbcake.  

This is good advice. If you wish to comment on anything I or Rassah have said, I'd be interested in hearing it.

Nutsacks and F'bombs.  Need I say more? 

But then I am not a guy.  Maybe it is a "male bonding thing" I just don't get.   

FWIW, that was all crumbcake. He's clearly not the most mature example of humanity.

[BitChick]

I edited my previous post.  I could not comment on your posts Myrkul.  I humbly realize when my mental capabilities are inferior.  At least I can acknowledge that.  Some women do not seem to be able to, so hopefully you can at least respect that.

[myrkul]

I edited my previous post.  I could not comment on your posts Myrkul.  I humbly realize when my mental capabilities are inferior.  At least I can acknowledge that.  Some women do not seem to be able to, so hopefully you can at least respect that.

Don't feel bad, we're straying beyond my ability to firmly grasp the concepts, and I suspect we left crumbcake in the dust some time ago. Suffice it to say that I consider the universe as a whole to be a chaotic (determinative, but difficult to predict, and impossible to predict accurately without omniscience) system, and that consciousness is a monkey wrench in causality. In other words, I believe in free will.

[BitChick]

My husband tries to discuss things like this with me.  He also tries to explain the code he is working at work.  I have learned to nod and smile and say, "That is very interesting."  It makes him feel good.

So, Myrkul, everything you have said is very interesting. 

If you love physics and the study of the universe though you might want to read a book called "Starlight and Time" by Dr. Russell Humphreys.  It was really fascinating.  My husband loved it, tried to dumb it down enough for me to understand.  I could sort of grasp some of the concepts, but I probably should not start another debate here. It is more about the age of the universe than anything else though, but for minds who really like to think there is some interesting things in there for sure.

[myrkul]

My husband tries to discuss things like this with me.  He also tries to explain the code he is working at work.  I have learned to nod and smile and say, "That is very interesting."  It makes him feel good.

So, Myrkul, everything you have said is very interesting. 

And this is just a side-pursuit for me. The greatest minds in Quantum Mechanics admit they don't fully understand what's going on. But that's what makes science so fun. The thrill of discovering what's over that next hill.

If you love physics and the study of the universe though you might want to read a book called "Starlight and Time" by Dr. Russell Humphreys.  It was really fascinating.  My husband loved it, tried to dumb it down enough for me to understand.  I could sort of grasp some of the concepts, but I probably should not start another debate here. It is more about the age of the universe than anything else though, but for minds who really like to think there is some interesting things in there for sure.

I'll have to look into it. Thanks.

[Rassah]

The greatest minds in Quantum Mechanics admit they don't fully understand what's going on.

Correction: They don't know what's going on

...

Until you ask them!

*rim shot* 

[Tonko]

Don't feel bad, we're straying beyond my ability to firmly grasp the concepts

Like it really takes a lot for you?

[myrkul]

Don't feel bad, we're straying beyond my ability to firmly grasp the concepts

Like it really takes a lot for you?

Unnecessary low blow signalling a jerk and a moron.

[The second coming]

Bitcoin will unite the world as The One True Currency.

Soon all will know of it's Glory

[oakpacific]

I tend to believe that people losing their faiths in religion not because of their misfortunes, but their fortune to be able to live in the modern era, and the availability of alternative explanations. Medieval people suffered a lot more than perhaps any of us, yet they are always feverishly religious, without finding out how much better life could possibly be, or having access to alternatives(they didn't know about Confucianism, and Greek/Latin literatures are off the limit for most people) , you will just choose to believe life is what it should be, because it's the same for everyone, or rather, your material well-being, and everything else is decided by you lineage, you have not seen an exception. Actually, the real revolution of thoughts only happened after the scholars(all of them clerics) started studying works of Antiquity, and learning things that none of them had conceived for the previous hundreds of years. Then slowly it started to transform every aspect of people's life, first the nobles, then the poors.

Also hundreds of years later we are perhaps much more confident with our own judgement, be it about morality or something else, seeing that people here pretty much question God because they are already assertive about certain things being right regardless of God, unimaginable for the Medieval folks.

[keelba]

I tend to believe that people losing their faiths in religion not because of their misfortunes, but their fortune to be able to live in the modern era, and the availability of alternative explanations. Medieval people suffered a lot more than perhaps any of us, yet they are always feverishly religious, without finding out how much better life could possibly be, or having access to alternatives(they didn't know about Confucianism, and Greek/Latin literatures are off the limit for most people) , you will just choose to believe life is what it should be, because it's the same for everyone, or rather, your material well-being, and everything else is decided by you lineage, you have not seen an exception. Actually, the real revolution of thoughts only happened after the scholars(all of them clerics) started studying works of Antiquity, and learning things that none of them had conceived for the previous hundreds of years. Then slowly it started to transform every aspect of people's life, first the nobles, then the poors.

Also hundreds of years later we are perhaps much more confident with our own judgement, be it about morality or something else, seeing that people here pretty much question God because they are already assertive about certain things being right regardless of God, unimaginable for the Medieval folks.

The main difference between today and Medieval Times is that back then heresy was a crime punishable by torture and death. It is very possible that people back then were tempted to lose their faith even more so than today but were too afraid to speak their minds. If they didn't speak up, you would have no way of knowing about it today would you?

One of the great gifts given to us (in America) by our founding fathers was the freedom of religion and freedom from religious persecution. Now we are free to use our own minds to question our faith and discuss it in, hopefully, rational conversations with others, and through the use of the Internet, all over the world.

[oakpacific]

I tend to believe that people losing their faiths in religion not because of their misfortunes, but their fortune to be able to live in the modern era, and the availability of alternative explanations. Medieval people suffered a lot more than perhaps any of us, yet they are always feverishly religious, without finding out how much better life could possibly be, or having access to alternatives(they didn't know about Confucianism, and Greek/Latin literatures are off the limit for most people) , you will just choose to believe life is what it should be, because it's the same for everyone, or rather, your material well-being, and everything else is decided by you lineage, you have not seen an exception. Actually, the real revolution of thoughts only happened after the scholars(all of them clerics) started studying works of Antiquity, and learning things that none of them had conceived for the previous hundreds of years. Then slowly it started to transform every aspect of people's life, first the nobles, then the poors.

Also hundreds of years later we are perhaps much more confident with our own judgement, be it about morality or something else, seeing that people here pretty much question God because they are already assertive about certain things being right regardless of God, unimaginable for the Medieval folks.

The main difference between today and Medieval Times is that back then heresy was a crime punishable by torture and death. It is very possible that people back then were tempted to lose their faith even more so than today but were too afraid to speak their minds. If they didn't speak up, you would have no way of knowing about it today would you?

One of the great gifts given to us (in America) by our founding fathers was the freedom of religion and freedom from religious persecution. Now we are free to use our own minds to question our faith and discuss it in, hopefully, rational conversations with others, and through the use of the Internet, all over the world.

Funny you brought up the torture and death, so I figure something should be said about the medieval justice system. For hundreds of years, trial by fire was the prevailing method of determining who is guilty, it stayed in use because, guess what, it somehow worked. People on trial really believed in things like divine intervention, and usually confessed immediately  after such a decision was made by the judge.

Now back to the question of whether there were people who are atheistic but were too afraid to speak up, it maybe true there are people who did not speak up due to the fear of torture and death, but I think it's also important to understand why people gradually started to speak up after a certain time point, the fact that theologists like Aquinas would feel the need to reconciliate Christian belief with Greek philosophy and logic, is quite telling.

About the freedom of/from religion, it's true that the American founding fathers were the first with the important foresight to establish it formally as one of the basic principle of the government, probably due to their ancestors' experience of being persecuted religiously, yet it still should be pointed out U.S was not the first nation to treat all religions equally before the law.

[semaforo]

   Freedom of religion was a right secured by the Constitution of Medina which founded the first Islamic state. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_Medina
    This was at least 1150 years prior to the revolutionary war in the british colonies. Just for the record. Christians, Jews, and people of other beliefs lived in Islamic countries, sometimes in peace, sometimes in conflict, to the present day. Muslims and Jews, on the other hand, were expelled from their homes in Italy and Spain, from the 12th to 15th centuries after Jesus (Peace and blessings be with him and with his mother).

[neurobox]

   Freedom of religion was a right secured by the Constitution of Medina which founded the first Islamic state. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_Medina
    This was at least 1150 years prior to the revolutionary war in the british colonies. Just for the record. Christians, Jews, and people of other beliefs lived in Islamic countries, sometimes in peace, sometimes in conflict, to the present day. Muslims and Jews, on the other hand, were expelled from their homes in Italy and Spain, from the 12th to 15th centuries after Jesus (Peace and blessings be with him and with his mother).

That's so humanitarian. How did Medina get a Muslim state? Anything to do with mass murder of Jews?

[crumbcake]

   Freedom of religion was a right secured by the Constitution of Medina which founded the first Islamic state. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_Medina
    This was at least 1150 years prior to the revolutionary war in the british colonies. Just for the record. Christians, Jews, and people of other beliefs lived in Islamic countries, sometimes in peace, sometimes in conflict, to the present day. Muslims and Jews, on the other hand, were expelled from their homes in Italy and Spain, from the 12th to 15th centuries after Jesus (Peace and blessings be with him and with his mother).

That's so humanitarian. How did Medina get a Muslim state? Anything to do with mass murder of Jews?

No more than US had to do with mass murder of pesky injuns (now that they're no threat & we got their land: Native Americans)