Religious beliefs on bitcoin

[$1LK]

What a joke... I'd rather cut my wrists than be exposed to any more of your "songs".

C'mon.  We all have a right to our own artistic expressions don't we?

I have heard many lyrics in my time that were more offensive.  Just saying.

You are entitled to your opinions of course.

Protip: Your art loses value significantly when you try to control its content.

[neurobox]

I thought it wasn't half bad. Sounds like it would go well to a Laura Storey tune.

[hl5460]

Sometimes it requires firm believer to hold on to BTC. In a sense, BTC could be a religion in a digital age.

[mprep]

Sometimes it requires firm believer to hold on to BTC. In a sense, BTC could be a religion in a digital age.

And that's how a new sect is born.

[semaforo]

    We do have the gift of contemplating our origins though, but to experience that it's like this near death experience- there is such a thing as spiritual perception, and its only by conditioning that we are trained to blind ourselves to that reality. Which is understandable, since all of the power structures of the elite of modern society are based on a denial of whatever cannot be perceived by the five senses and the technical apparati thereof (telescopes, microscopes, geiger meters, MRI's). It stands to reason that since scientific observers are continually discovering levels of reality that we didn't know existed before, that there is a lot more to discover.

Sure, there are still plenty of things we have yet to discover, which we try to discover using our senses and our tools. But if there is something out there that we can never perceive with our five senses or the tools we use, then why is any of it relevant? By definition it has absolutely no effect on us, our tools, or our perceived reality. Even if we anger some supreme deity by assuming that it doesn't exist, if it can't affect us, our senses, or our tools in any way, what consequence is there to us?

     Disbelief will not harm the Most High, it will only harm those who become attached to this world. There are those that would limit our perceptional toolset for the sake of propogating an ideology advantageous to them. Science is one system of belief- not the system of belief. How can light be both a particle and a wave? Any physicist, theist or not, will acknowledge this reality. It depends on the observer and the method of observation.

The question is simply this: Where does consciousness begin, and where does it end. Is a dog conscious? A bird, a plant? Algae, rocks, stars? You can draw a line somewhere, but my investigations simply led me to the conclusion that ultimately it is impossible to draw a conclusive line between the conscious and unconscious parts of the universe. Therefore, since I am conscious all that I can perceive must exist inside of me- it is likewise possible for all of my senses to be eliminated and for my consciousness to continue, see sensory deprivation chamber or the spirit molecule. The universe is living, and it will one day die. Far from solipsism, I speak only of unity.

    Some have suggested that the pineal gland may act as a sensory organ, or that our nervous systems have the capacity to relay information from various electromagnetic influences (solar radiation, the earths magnetic field, fields from electric currents, including those of other autonomous nervous systems, so on) and interpret and relay this information into decision making processes, aka, intuition. There are meta-perceptory mechanisms whereby blocks of super sensory information can be mined to further enhance survival chances, aka empathy. These mechanisms, while being studied by scientists, are far more difficult to map and graph than simple functions like gravitational fields, particle dynamics, resonance, and the like because they compound so many variables.

     There have been people who have achieved advanced understanding of these phenomena and they have also codified this knowledge to make it usable in the same basic tradition as the scientific method. They have been called saints, prophets, gurus, buddhas, enlightened, and so forth. Using principles of observation and study they have achieved profound insight into the nature of reality and passed the knowledge on for the benefit of all. Because science cannot yet comprehend this wisdom it is unfortunately ignored or even denied by proponents of a universal system of knowledge that excludes all other systems.

    The arrogance to think that western civilization has achieved perfect knowledge and that all of the wisdom of past centuries was foolish superstition by people who weren't smart enough to develop microscopes and x rays is kind of like a snotty 12 year old who tells his parents and grandparents the way thing really are. I say take the wisdom of the past and the wisdom of the present and consider both. Aint nobody disproved the existence of the Almighty.

    I fully understand the wish by some not to be associated with people who tell them they are going to burn for eternity because they don't believe that that white guy who is his own father got nailed to a post two thousand years ago. Atheism is not the answer- it's just a step on the way, and unfortunately an expression of the political debate in the US.

[Rassah]

What a joke... I'd rather cut my wrists than be exposed to any more of your "songs".

"If you can't say anything nice..." or at least informative...

[Rassah]

Sometimes it requires firm believer to hold on to BTC. In a sense, BTC could be a religion in a digital age.

It's fairly easy to hold on to BTC when some exchanges go offline and others get their USD withdrawals blocked 

[Adrian-x]

Sometimes it requires firm believer to hold on to BTC. In a sense, BTC could be a religion in a digital age.

It's fairly easy to hold on to BTC when some exchanges go offline and others get their USD withdrawals blocked 

Given that, some members of the highest order do a great job of alienating the Bitcoin skeptics in pursuit of that goal. 

Whenever things get bad and I turn to God, I read this; it has helped fill the void

[neurobox]

Sigmund's theories on God are no more enlightened than Mao's. The secular cannot find God, and in their ignorance invent rationalizations for every evidence they encounter, no matter how incoherent, justifying even the murder of hundreds of millions in the hopes of ushering in a progressive new era of likeminded humanism without any trace of God. For some reason, it's never failed to backfire. You can thank Sigmund, or you can thank God.

EDIT: The epitome of this dynamic is narrated in Revelations, wherein the ultimate purge occurs, followed by the ultimate blowback, and it's not going to be mistaken for anything Freudian.

Please note the parallel in the prophecy, which was recorded in metaphor, paraphrased here for your understanding: Those whose names are not written in the Lamb's Book of Life WILL worship the beast, a seemingly unstoppable global force/entity. The world powers ( whore of babylon, globalist aquarians by any other name) that "ride" and empower this beast will be "drunk with the blood of the saints." The beast and all who worship it (or receive its mark on their hand or forehead) will be destroyed (tormented even), see Revelations for details. The Kingdom of Heaven is at hand.

[$1LK]

What a joke... I'd rather cut my wrists than be exposed to any more of your "songs".

"If you can't say anything nice..." or at least informative...

So, I should only flatter people and tell all my secrets?

[Rassah]

    Disbelief will not harm the Most High, it will only harm those who become attached to this world.

Again, how? If this stuff doesn't affect our senses or our physical reality, then how can it harm us? Unless it can harm our senses or emotions, in which case this should be testable.

Science is one system of belief- not the system of belief. How can light be both a particle and a wave? Any physicist, theist or not, will acknowledge this reality. It depends on the observer and the method of observation.

Science isn't a system of belief, it's a system of doing verifications on ideas, and discarding those ideas we can't verify. As for the light being a particle and a wave, that's just another variation of "How can bumble bees fly?" Sure, those not familiar with this aspect of light might think this is a tough question that can't be answered, but it can and has been.

The question is simply this: Where does consciousness begin, and where does it end. Is a dog conscious? A bird, a plant? Algae, rocks, stars? You can draw a line somewhere, but my investigations simply led me to the conclusion that ultimately it is impossible to draw a conclusive line between the conscious and unconscious parts of the universe.

I would answer simply that consciousness begins where something is able to sense and is aware of its surroundings. We know algae is aware of it's surroundings, at least to a very limited point, since it shows us that it prefers to grow in some areas over others. Rocks and stars show absolutely no signs of consciousness. If you mean self-conscious, that's a tougher  line to distinguish, but one that's within the spectrum of consciousness, not within the spectrum of obvious consciousness and unconsciousness of dead inanimate things.

Therefore, since I am conscious all that I can perceive must exist inside of me- it is likewise possible for all of my senses to be eliminated and for my consciousness to continue, see sensory deprivation chamber or the spirit molecule.

I've never heard of the spirit molecule, but I am pretty sure that if you had been born without any senses, including sense of touch and pain, that you would have no consciousness at all. There would simply be no experience to guide the development of your brain. No learned behaviors, thoughts, ideas, of senses to react to from instinct. So I'd say your present consciousness is just a collection of your memories and experiences, all of which, despite feeling rather grandiose, can be mapped out, and even tampered with, from the physical network of neurons in your brain. We know that people who suffer brain damage often change personalities and become different people, which suggests that it's the physical brain that determines everything about who you are. So what do you believe "consciousness" to be, if it's outside of your thoughts, dreams, personality, etc?

   Some have suggested that the pineal gland may act as a sensory organ, or that our nervous systems have the capacity to relay information from various electromagnetic influences (solar radiation, the earths magnetic field, fields from electric currents, including those of other autonomous nervous systems, so on) and interpret and relay this information into decision making processes, aka, intuition.

Since we can easily generate radiation and magnetic pulses, this should be easy enough to test...

There are meta-perceptory mechanisms whereby blocks of super sensory information can be mined to further enhance survival chances, aka empathy. These mechanisms, while being studied by scientists, are far more difficult to map and graph than simple functions like gravitational fields, particle dynamics, resonance, and the like because they compound so many variables.

Can these variables be measured with a high enough statistical probability? I.e., even if we can't measure them directly, can we through pulses at a group of brains and test for any most frequent outcomes? If yes, we can prove this scientifically. If all the outcomes are random, then why are these mechanisms relevant, if they'll cause random, seemingly unrelated outcomes?

    There have been people who have achieved advanced understanding of these phenomena and they have also codified this knowledge to make it usable in the same basic tradition as the scientific method.

You mean tested, peer reviewed, and able to be duplicated by others with similar results???

They have been called saints, prophets, gurus, buddhas, enlightened, and so forth. Using principles of observation and study they have achieved profound insight into the nature of reality and passed the knowledge on for the benefit of all. Because science cannot yet comprehend this wisdom it is unfortunately ignored or even denied by proponents of a universal system of knowledge that excludes all other systems.

Science doesn't have to comprehend. It just has to test. If there are tests on this stuff, and the outcomes are statistically significant, then they can be believed to be true, and afterwards science will start working on explaining the process and why they are true. If tests show seemingly random and unrelated outcomes from this wisdom, then, again, the random outcomes would make it irrelevant.

   The arrogance to think that western civilization has achieved perfect knowledge and that all of the wisdom of past centuries was foolish superstition by people who weren't smart enough to develop microscopes and x rays is kind of like a snotty 12 year old who tells his parents and grandparents the way thing really are. I say take the wisdom of the past and the wisdom of the present and consider both. Aint nobody disproved the existence of the Almighty.

It really depends on your definition of wisdom though. I wouldn't call the centuries of wisdom surrounding our medicine, which believed that things like infections and illnesses were caused by demons, or bad blood, or bad airs, to be wisdom worthy of keeping in light of new discoveries about viruses and bacteria. And as we discover more things about our physical universe, that "wisdom" keeps getting pushed back and back towards things that are unprovable, which people believe despite any way of perceiving or testing the evidence for it. It's the "god of the gaps" concept, with the gaps being smaller and smaller. So, sure, no one has disproved the existence of the Almighty, but neither has anyone disproved the existence of dragons and unicorns. And don't dragons and unicorns have just about as much effect and influence on our lives, perceptions, and instruments as the Almighty? So shouldn't we consider them wisdom to believe in just as hard as belief in the Almighty?

[Rassah]

The secular cannot find God, and in their ignorance invent rationalizations for every evidence they encounter, no matter how incoherent

Hmm, which would you call more incoherent? We don't know, but based on the things we know, and this evidence, MAYBE that's what doing it? Or a fantastical tale of talking snakes, hydrogen and oxygen atoms of water turning into carbon atoms to make wine, virgin pregnancies, and all powerful beings sitting in a relative up direction from us in the sky, causing that thing to happen for reasons we can't understand?

justifying even the murder of hundreds of millions in the hopes of ushering in a progressive new era of likeminded humanism without any trace of God. For some reason, it's never failed to backfire. You can thank Sigmund, or you can thank God.

Blatant disregard for history aside, just look at the modern world. Of the many cultures that exist in our world today, which cultures are calling for the murder of hundreds of millions in the hopes of ushering in a new era? (Hint: it's the very religious one whose culture is about where Christianity was 600 years ago)

[neurobox]

Islam is socially perpetuated by paternity and mortal fear. It won't be the last cult system established in that pattern. It has only passing resemblances to Judaism, but is wicked to the core. Islam means submission, and the majority will follow their leaders. They commonly await the 5th Imam, expecting him to lead them to global dominance (the root meaning of mujahed, root word of jihad)

Again, looking at the modern world, have you ever wondered why the most affluential progressives seem to have a common affinity for Islam, only paying lip service to its enemies?

[herzmeister]

The world powers ( whore of babylon, globalist aquarians by any other name)

I thought Bitcoin fits very well the age of aquarius? 

(it's usually described as very individualistic, as opposed to the passing more authoritarian age of pisces).

[BitChick]

Islam is socially perpetuated by paternity and mortal fear. It won't be the last cult system established in that pattern. It has only passing resemblances to Judaism, but is wicked to the core. Islam means submission, and the majority will follow their leaders. They commonly await the 5th Imam, expecting him to lead them to global dominance (the root meaning of mujahed, root word of jihad)

Again, looking at the modern world, have you ever wondered why the most affluential progressives seem to have a common affinity for Islam, only paying lip service to its enemies?

What I cannot understand is why women, who are obviously forced into a submissive and often abusive role in Islam, do not leave, especially when they understand more or have the freedom to do so?  I guess there is the social stigmas and familial pressures that keep them there, but it is not a very "woman friendly" religion for sure.

When reading the Koran it is pretty obvious that it is not a tolerant religion but one that has violent roots and certainly a strong belief that all "infadels" which is everyone besides those that believe like they do, should be put to death.  It is not a "gospel" of love, grace, redemption or peace but instead a false gospel of hatred, violence and control.  There is certainly a belief in "good works" earning a person their way to heaven in the Koran.  However, their idea of "good works" could include killing people for their cause. (I was once told that the sign of a false religion is one in which salvation needs to be earned.  Interesting thought for sure.  Only Christianity teaches that salvation is not able to be earned by anything we do and is a gift freely given by God and can only be obtained by repentance and acceptance)

Of course, that is not to say that there are some very loving and kind people that are Muslim.  It is just that there are certainly some things within Islam that are dangerous if people take them to the extreme.

[semaforo]

    Disbelief will not harm the Most High, it will only harm those who become attached to this world.

Again, how? If this stuff doesn't affect our senses or our physical reality, then how can it harm us? Unless it can harm our senses or emotions, in which case this should be testable.

   For example- most religions, including Christianity, forbid the taking of interest on loans. While this might seem dogmatic, our current crisis would probably not be happening if the institution of interest were not so widespread. Right now interest rates are close to zero causing the economy to pick up again, which is bad news for people with huge piles of money who could normally just live off the interest. Again, people with experience of the unseen wrote this down at a time when literacy was very rare because they knew it was important for future generations to remember.

   How an institution like interest affects our physical reality is very difficult to test, because it is a social phenomenon. Your results are going to be affected by what you believe. If you are collecting 9% interest on 10 million bucks, or 90 grand a year, and living on it, the research you do about interest is probably going to ask different questions than the research that someone who needs to get a payday loan from the money tree to turn their water back on would do. Physical models of the universe correspond to philosophical and ethical ideals, so science is far from apolitical, and scientific inquiry, just like religious texts, get bent to serve the agendas of those using them.

   So if interest concentrates wealth in the hands of fewer and fewer people, and this rising inequality in wealth leads to jealousy which leads to increasing social tension and violence, which eventually leads to war and me losing family members and getting my hand blown off, well, my disobeying of a religious rule caused me some harm... in other words, disbelief caused me harm, because if I'd believed and not charged or given interest, it might have influenced the people around me, the whole society could have taken a different direction, and I could've still had my hand and family members.

  It's an exaggerated scenario- one person taking interest could not be so significant- but consider the butterfly effect, and consider that very small actions add up to a big cumulative effect. Trying to measure this kind of stuff is a statistical nightmare- you would need generations of observational data. Luckily, there are people who have studied this for generations, and the brightest minds among them have been preserved in writing- these are the texts of the major religions. Lots of religions have risen and fallen- the ones that work have survived- evolution.

[neurobox]

It has only passing resemblances to Judaism, but is wicked to the core.

Europe's extraction from darkness

"It is to Mussulman science , to Mussulman art , and to Mussulman literature that Europe has been in a great measure indebted for its extrication from the darkness of the Middle Ages"
Marqui of Dufferin and Ava 1890 *Mussulman = Muslim*

Social gospel

"While Christianity in recent years has moved towards a social gospel, Islam has been a social gospel from the start" Islam in the Modern World - Wilfred Cantwell Smith 1946

It's an odd quote, considering how early tribal muslims had no written language, it was Christian slaves (Dhimmis) that were tasked with compiling and writing down the quranic recitations, and had to invent the script known as Arabic in order to do so. Muslims, like some Roman Catholic sects, were reknown for burning whole libraries of books and art. They both owe the world a great debt, as I see it.

[Anon136]

They both owe the world a great debt, as I see it.

Europe's ever lasting debt to Islam

"But apart from all those weighty considerations, the attitude of Europe towards Islam should be one of eternal gratitude. Instead of base ingratitude and forgetfulness. Never to this day has Europe acknowledged in an honest and wholehearted manner the great and everlasting debt she owes to the Islamic culture and civilisation. Only on a lukewarm and perfunctory way has she recognised that when , during the Dark Ages , her people were sunk in feudalism and ignorance."

"Moslim civilisation under the Arabs reached a high standard of social and and scientific spledour that kept alive the flickering embers of European society from utter decadence."

"Let Europe - Christiandom rather - confess and acknowledge her fault. Let her proclaim aloud to her own ignorant masses, and to the world at large, the ingratitude she has displayed, and the eternal debt she owns to Islam she no longer despises. Open confession is good for the soul, and only a confession such as this can wipe of the black stain which has for so long besmirched her fair name. Let Christiandom once and for all recognise that the greatest of all faults it to be conscious of none - that acknowledging a fault is saying, only in other words, we are wiser today than we were yesterday. Only through magnanimity such as this can she claim redemption. For she must surely know that injustice founded on religious sources and national conceit cannot be perpetrated for ever."

Islam her Moral and Spiritual Value - 1927 - Arthur Glyn Leonard

this is stupid, neither group should be homogenized in this way. only individuals can owe debts and children can not be held liable for the actions of their forefathers.

[semaforo]

Islam is socially perpetuated by paternity and mortal fear. It won't be the last cult system established in that pattern. It has only passing resemblances to Judaism, but is wicked to the core. Islam means submission, and the majority will follow their leaders. They commonly await the 5th Imam, expecting him to lead them to global dominance (the root meaning of mujahed, root word of jihad)

Again, looking at the modern world, have you ever wondered why the most affluential progressives seem to have a common affinity for Islam, only paying lip service to its enemies?

What I cannot understand is why women, who are obviously forced into a submissive and often abusive role in Islam, do not leave, especially when they understand more or have the freedom to do so?  I guess there is the social stigmas and familial pressures that keep them there, but it is not a very "woman friendly" religion for sure.

When reading the Koran it is pretty obvious that it is not a tolerant religion but one that has violent roots and certainly a strong belief that all "infadels" which is everyone besides those that believe like they do, should be put to death.  It is not a "gospel" of love, grace, redemption or peace but instead a false gospel of hatred, violence and control.  There is certainly a belief in "good works" earning a person their way to heaven in the Koran.  However, their idea of "good works" could include killing people for their cause. (I was once told that the sign of a false religion is one in which salvation needs to be earned.  Interesting thought for sure.  Only Christianity teaches that salvation is not able to be earned by anything we do and is a gift freely given by God and can only be obtained by repentance and acceptance)

Of course, that is not to say that there are some very loving and kind people that are Muslim.  It is just that there are certainly some things within Islam that are dangerous if people take them to the extreme.

    Salvation is not earned in Islam. Salvation is given by the Most Kind and the Most Merciful, Ar-rahman-i-rahim, feminine nouns in Arabic that stem from the same word root as womb in Arabic and Hebrew. How woman friendly is a male God and His son, and a gender neutral spirit?

Abusive for me is cultural norms that force women to wear clothing that reveals their curves, causing men to oggle them in public. Abusive for me is that in some places women are expected to go to the salon at least once a month and pay what a lot of people in the world make in a month to get their hair done. Then they are tricked by the advertising industry into buying makeup, jewelry, padded bras, and other such nonsense to attract attention. Let's not even get started on the position of women in the Bible- at least in Islam there is no original sin. Education has also been obligatory for women in the Islamic nation for over a thousand years.

 The Quran states that Christians, Jews, and others who believe and do good works will have nothing to fear on judgment day (2:62).
Christians often interpret only those who accept Jesus, peace be with him, will enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Muslims accept Jesus as a Prophet and love and revere him, peace be with him.  

  The Muslims began by simply worshiping and were consistently attacked by polytheists. The first contact between the new Islamic state and Christian Roman empire was peaceful envoys sent by the Muslims who were then received by the Christians and immediately beheaded. Muslims accept the Bible as divine revelation with some adulteration- of which there is ample evidence given widespread destruction of texts, disputed versions of the Bible, translations with corrections and additions, and so on (see Nag Hammadi Library).

According to Islamic tradition, every person is marked from birth as a belonging to the party of the fire or the party of paradise. Salvation is not earned. Status is earned- there are degrees in paradise. Propaganda campaigns have been being run against Islam by Christians for a long time. This is understandable, since Islam does not have the same power structure as Christianity, which emphasizes the role of male priests. A lot of people have a lot to lose if their followers question the pope as being infallible- and a lot of people have a lot to lose if people start to question the infallibility of the Bible.

    Please be careful with your information on religions. There are a lot of interests at work here. There are good priests and bad priests, good imams and bad imams. You will know a tree by its fruit. The red pill is a hard one to swallow.

      
    

[semaforo]

It has only passing resemblances to Judaism, but is wicked to the core.

Europe's extraction from darkness

"It is to Mussulman science , to Mussulman art , and to Mussulman literature that Europe has been in a great measure indebted for its extrication from the darkness of the Middle Ages"
Marqui of Dufferin and Ava 1890 *Mussulman = Muslim*

Social gospel

"While Christianity in recent years has moved towards a social gospel, Islam has been a social gospel from the start" Islam in the Modern World - Wilfred Cantwell Smith 1946

It's an odd quote, considering how early tribal muslims had no written language, it was Christian slaves (Dhimmis) that were tasked with compiling and writing down the quranic recitations, and had to invent the script known as Arabic in order to do so. Muslims, like some Roman Catholic sects, were reknown for burning whole libraries of books and art. They both owe the world a great debt, as I see it.

   I remember stumbling across the names of Salman the Perisan, Ali ibn Abu Talib, and Uthman ibn Affan as being among those who transcribed the recitations of the Quran, and none of them were Christian slaves, as far as I know. I just haven't read enough to know any of the other transcribers, perhaps you care to provide a source?

   Islam is sometimes translated as "the peace that comes from total submission to the Supreme." but it comes from the same root as Saad Lam Mim or SLM, the Hebrew and Arabic root for "peace." If you have faith that all things are under the power of the Greatest, the One, then you have nothing to fear except for that One. If harm is meant for you by the One, no one and nothing can prevent it, and if you are protected by the One, then nothing and no one can harm you. That is part of the meaning of Islam as I understand it. If you are a believer then even the harm does you good, because by showing patience you earn favor and are purified by the hardship. Anyone who falls upon this stone will be broken to pieces- anyone on whom it falls will be crushed.