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Author Topic: Religious beliefs on bitcoin  (Read 22247 times)
neurobox
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June 24, 2013, 06:13:24 PM
 #701

I have found that a lack of faith in God's character does more to deny one a richer more meaningful life than anything else.

Also, not to play grammar nazi, but for future reference,the correct third-person posessive is "their", not "there." Would hate to see something that unimportant unfairly tarnish your reputation for above average deductive reasoning Wink
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June 24, 2013, 06:45:09 PM
 #702

I have found that a lack of faith in God's character does more to deny one a richer more meaningful life than anything else.

I have found the opposite, that faith in god limits one to what they are willing to believe, think, and thus experience. I guess it all ready depends on the type of faith. I mean, being a fundamentalist muslim I'm sure severely limits your life, while being generally open about everything AND sharing it with an imaginary friend can feel really nice, I'm sure.

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June 24, 2013, 07:12:37 PM
 #703

I have found that a lack of faith in God's character does more to deny one a richer more meaningful life than anything else.

I have found the opposite, that faith in god limits one to what they are willing to believe, think, and thus experience. I guess it all ready depends on the type of faith. I mean, being a fundamentalist muslim I'm sure severely limits your life, while being generally open about everything AND sharing it with an imaginary friend can feel really nice, I'm sure.

LOL

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June 24, 2013, 07:22:22 PM
 #704

    I'd agree... the word god is probably one of the most abused. It originally comes from the proto-Germanic and may have been derived from the name Wodan or Godan, who was one God in the German pantheon. Any time someone wants me to believe something I ask why... for example, when I am telling people about bitcoin I am doing so because if the bitcoin economy grows then the value of bitcoin increases and my bitcoins will buy more.
   I agree, ideologies that deny other ideas are very limiting. I also prefer more inclusive systems.
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June 24, 2013, 08:10:55 PM
 #705

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I have found the opposite, that faith in god limits one to what they are willing to believe, think, and thus experience. I guess it all ready depends on the type of faith. I mean, being a fundamentalist muslim I'm sure severely limits your life, while being generally open about everything AND sharing it with an imaginary friend can feel really nice, I'm sure.

If I were in your shoes I'd probably agree with you. However, it turned out that my friend was not only not imaginary, but also faithful with matters well beyond my influence.

Suppose that you had a personal relationship with someone for years, and you learned that you could count on them to keep their promises. Can you imagine how ridiculous it sounds when someone tries to calmly explain to you that you're imagining them? It's rather insulting, actually, what kind of weak-minded fools atheists take us for, but we can't hold a grudge.

Atheists assume that someone is crazy if they honestly think God talks to them. How do they expect to hear from him? He has many ways to communicate, and honestly I've rarely heard a foreign voice in my head. He can speak in answered prayers, in prophecy, in extremely unlikely providences, in His Word, in Spirit, even in visions (which I would NOT assume were from him if they were not sealed and confirmed with prophetic events, which they have been).
In times passed, I've tried on enough world-views that I lost count. I started with the scientific principles of testing and evaluation, curiosity and open-mindedness. I found much more than the secular can possibly explain. I also found that deception is exceedingly common, and truth is rare, fragments of it being abused for the sake of control.

In the end, I wish I'd known that faith in the living Christ is key, leading to an experiential understanding that satisfies the rigorous demands that our mind places on the evaluation of what is real. I serve Christ alone. Nothing else satisfies, it's the blind leading the blind. Forgive me if I seem close-minded.
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June 24, 2013, 08:25:58 PM
 #706

If I were in your shoes I'd probably agree with you. However, it turned out that my friend was not only not imaginary, but also faithful with matters well beyond my influence.

Suppose that you had a personal relationship with someone for years, and you learned that you could count on them to keep their promises. Can you imagine how ridiculous it sounds when someone tries to calmly explain to you that you're imagining them?

As a matter of fact, yes, I can. I grew up non-religious (was just never taught anything about it, coming from USSR, which is why I believe babies are both atheist), then I was taught about religion, and was a catholic for many years growing up. I believed wholeheartedly, and got all those friend benefits and happy feelings from my personal relationship with god, thinking god was looking over me and such. So I know the feeling you describe. I just got over it, and now look back at it in much the same way you probably remember the glee and excitement you've felt as a child, when you were expecting Santa to come with gifts.

And thing is, many, if not almost all, atheists from USA were religious at one point, too, feeling the same way you do. We all live in a very religious country, and it's almost impossible to grow up without someone trying to convince you of christianity (at least it was a few decades ago). So it's not that atheists "don't get it" because they "don't understand the feeling and relationship you get from god." They do, because they've had it too. So it's not that atheists think you guys are crazy. They just think you are still diluded and confused. Which is perfectly fine, as long as you keep your fantasies to yourselves. In part because we feel embarrassed for you, and in part because you guys try to convince those in power to turn your fantasies into laws.

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June 24, 2013, 08:36:43 PM
 #707

I may have said it several times now. If you were in my shoes, you'd be a fool to write off your experiences as fantasy. It'd be like describing the Eiffel Tower as "a bit of metal" or like trying to do a doctoral thesis on quantum mechanics in the style of dr. suess, with a 100 word vocabulary. There's no mistaking the real thing.
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June 24, 2013, 09:13:42 PM
 #708

If I were in your shoes I'd probably agree with you. However, it turned out that my friend was not only not imaginary, but also faithful with matters well beyond my influence.

Suppose that you had a personal relationship with someone for years, and you learned that you could count on them to keep their promises. Can you imagine how ridiculous it sounds when someone tries to calmly explain to you that you're imagining them?

As a matter of fact, yes, I can. I grew up non-religious (was just never taught anything about it, coming from USSR, which is why I believe babies are both atheist), then I was taught about religion, and was a catholic for many years growing up. I believed wholeheartedly, and got all those friend benefits and happy feelings from my personal relationship with god, thinking god was looking over me and such. So I know the feeling you describe. I just got over it, and now look back at it in much the same way you probably remember the glee and excitement you've felt as a child, when you were expecting Santa to come with gifts.

And thing is, many, if not almost all, atheists from USA were religious at one point, too, feeling the same way you do. We all live in a very religious country, and it's almost impossible to grow up without someone trying to convince you of christianity (at least it was a few decades ago). So it's not that atheists "don't get it" because they "don't understand the feeling and relationship you get from god." They do, because they've had it too. So it's not that atheists think you guys are crazy. They just think you are still diluded and confused. Which is perfectly fine, as long as you keep your fantasies to yourselves. In part because we feel embarrassed for you, and in part because you guys try to convince those in power to turn your fantasies into laws.

It is interesting that many atheists do come from a religious background, one in which they do say that had a relationship with God.  It seems that somewhere along the way something causes them to "lose their faith" so to speak.  Perhaps God did not come through in a way they expected?

Our relationship with God/Jesus is a journey though.  One that takes some twists and turns and our response to the difficulties and trials we endure is what either sharpens us or can put out the flame in our hearts if we let them.

I have had many times I have had a few angry words with God, to put it nicely.  The amazing thing is when I "have it out" with Him, that is when He comes to me and helps me the most.  I am often a spoiled kid wanting my way though and  He has taught me that He never promised me an easy life but he promised to walk with me through it.

I wrote a song about this "journey" if you are interested in reading the lyrics:

I dreamed as a child what my life would be
That all my hopes and dreams would come so easily
Thinking if God really cared at all
Then Santa would bring me my favorite doll

I've grown up a little but not totally
I still want things to go my way, unfortunately
Denying what salvation truly means
Embracing Your cross and Your suffering

You never said life would be easy
Never said I wouldn't cry
Never said I would not grow weary or the road was open wide
But you said You would never leave me
Then You wipe my tears dry
As Your Spirit brings me comfort
You're always by my side

I can picture the blood pouring down from Your face
To think of what You suffered for Your gift of grace
Living Your life in humility
Then choosing to die out of love for me
I can picture You now looking into my face
And asking me to accept Your gift of grace
To live my life in humility
Embracing the cross that you have for me

You never said life would be easy
Never said I wouldn't cry
Never said I would not grow weary or the road was open wide
But you said You would never leave me
Then You wipe my tears dry
As Your Spirit brings me comfort
You're always by my side

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June 24, 2013, 09:35:54 PM
 #709

I may have said it several times now. If you were in my shoes, you'd be a fool to write off your experiences as fantasy. It'd be like describing the Eiffel Tower as "a bit of metal" or like trying to do a doctoral thesis on quantum mechanics in the style of dr. suess, with a 100 word vocabulary. There's no mistaking the real thing.

And I have said it several times, too. I did not "write off" the experience. It was an integral part of my life, and I've felt the same way you do. So the whole process was quite a gut-wrenching struggle, one I fought very hard against, clinging to my religion as hard as I could, and trying to continue to convince myself of why god and my faith were real. But, at some point, I just got to where I couldn't reconcile what I believed with what I knew. And now I realize that it was all in my head, and I feel so much more free and happy because of it.

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June 24, 2013, 09:42:39 PM
 #710

I have had many times I have had a few angry words with God, to put it nicely.  The amazing thing is when I "have it out" with Him, that is when He comes to me and helps me the most.  I am often a spoiled kid wanting my way though and  He has taught me that He never promised me an easy life but he promised to walk with me through it.

I remember those times, too. I would get angry with him about something in my life, but I would feel comforted, as if he understood me, and that he would stay by my side. Whatever hardships I personally had with god, despite making me a bit angry or frustrated with him at times, never made me question him. The point at which it started to unravel was when I expanded my world from just "me me me" and started being angry at god for others. I couldn't simply be angry at god, have my words with him, have him comfort me, and have that be over with. I would be angry with god about something outside of me, things I saw being done to others I loved or cared about, then I would have words with god, and after seeing nothing be done or changed, things would stay unresolved, and I would be left with nothing but more questions.

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June 24, 2013, 10:01:55 PM
 #711

I have had many times I have had a few angry words with God, to put it nicely.  The amazing thing is when I "have it out" with Him, that is when He comes to me and helps me the most.  I am often a spoiled kid wanting my way though and  He has taught me that He never promised me an easy life but he promised to walk with me through it.

I remember those times, too. I would get angry with him about something in my life, but I would feel comforted, as if he understood me, and that he would stay by my side. Whatever hardships I personally had with god, despite making me a bit angry or frustrated with him at times, never made me question him. The point at which it started to unravel was when I expanded my world from just "me me me" and started being angry at god for others. I couldn't simply be angry at god, have my words with him, have him comfort me, and have that be over with. I would be angry with god about something outside of me, things I saw being done to others I loved or cared about, then I would have words with god, and after seeing nothing be done or changed, things would stay unresolved, and I would be left with nothing but more questions.

Then why could you not just pray for others and realize that they are on their own journey as well?  Pray that God could help them make sense of the horrible things they had to endure?  Yes, I know a bit about your story.  Perhaps you have had to go through more than most do for sure, and your heart is so big and filled with so much compassion that it makes it even more difficult to stand by and see others suffer.  But have you considered that perhaps that "big heart" of yours was put there by God?  He is the one that puts love in our hearts.  He has an amazing way of turning the crap we have to go through into something amazing if we just let Him, or ask Him too.

And I think it is OK to question.  We should question.  I still question Him.  The difference is that I have come to realize that in my finite mind I will not be able to understand everything and I have learned to trust God regardless of that.  There are going to be things in this life that make absolutely no sense at all, and perhaps God is waiting until after life to make some of those things right?  I do believe that He has put fairness into our hearts and our sense of "justice" comes from Him.  So whatever does not seem right or fair or just, just let Him know.  He wants us to be direct and honest.  He certainly can handle it. Wink 

I guess what I often see if that people get so ticked off at God that they want to blame Him for not doing anything about the problems in the world.  I often feel like He does choose to stand by on the sidelines and just watch.  But then I have found the reason He is not involved in our lives is because we have not asked Him to be, or we don't want him to be involved.  Our own pride makes us want to do everything on our own without Him.  And He completely respects that and lets us have our own way, regardless of how much more difficult it is on us, and even on Him.  I think it does hurt Him when He sees us suffer so much.

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June 24, 2013, 10:41:17 PM
 #712

...There are going to be things in this life that make absolutely no sense at all, and perhaps God is waiting until after life to make some of those things right?...

This is my deepest and darkest fear, that one day some Imam, or Pope with help you understand the things in life that make absolutely no sense, and you will understand it as God.

For me life is the journey full of splendid wonder and awe, or some would define it as a spiritual quest or the path to enlightenment. There is nothing that is beyond human comprehension, IMO to give up and accept the there are things that make absolutely no sense at all is to turn your back on creation, and accept that we are lost.   

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June 24, 2013, 11:04:30 PM
 #713

...There are going to be things in this life that make absolutely no sense at all, and perhaps God is waiting until after life to make some of those things right?...

This is my deepest and darkest fear, that one day some Imam, or Pope with help you understand the things in life that make absolutely no sense, and you will understand it as God.

For me life is the journey full of splendid wonder and awe, or some would define it as a spiritual quest or the path to enlightenment. There is nothing that is beyond human comprehension, IMO to give up and accept the there are things that make absolutely no sense at all is to turn your back on creation, and accept that we are lost.   


But as humans we have finite brains.  There is a limit to what we can understand.  I have heard stories of people that have had near death experiences and they say that one thing they realized is that when they were "dead" or near death they understood more then they ever thought possible but when they were alive they realized that in their "human" state they could not understand as much. 

Many humans have the capability to understand more than others too!  For example, many people, myself included, will never be able to understand physics like Einstein, music like Mozart, art like Rembrandt etc. . .  We have different levels of giftedness, and a limit to what our individual brain is able to comprehend or accomplish.  We can strive to understand more and learn but there is a limit.

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June 25, 2013, 01:02:27 AM
 #714

But as humans we have finite brains.  There is a limit to what we can understand. 

Please don't call yourself dumb, and don't limit yourself in what you can achieve. That right there is the single worst thing about religion, where it convinces people that they will never understand, and makes them stop trying.

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June 25, 2013, 01:59:06 AM
 #715


But as humans we have finite brains..

It is possible to break the stigma within the context of the Bible.

We are made in God's own image. (Not a lesser image)

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June 25, 2013, 02:21:44 AM
Last edit: June 25, 2013, 02:36:45 AM by neurobox
 #716


But as humans we have finite brains..

It is possible to break the stigma within the context of the Bible.

We are made in God's own image. (Not a lesser image)


Huh? Chinese Rolexes are made in the image of legit ones (Not a lesser brand).

We have creative thought, but it is not infinite, not omniscient or even fully comprehensive of its own environment. AFHV proved that to the world.

EDIT: Where I'll concede is that we "were" made in his image, being Spirit (God) and Flesh (Son of Man). With sin our spirit is dead, we cannot have his spirit in us. If you are not born of the spirit, you cannot see God. The good news is exactly that, with faith in the atonement, his spirit is given us as a "seal" of our redemption, and it also works with us on a daily basis, sometimes in the most amazing and extravagant ways.

Quote
Please don't call yourself dumb, and don't limit yourself in what you can achieve. That right there is the single worst thing about religion, where it convinces people that they will never understand, and makes them stop trying.

On the flip side, if you think you are in fact limitless, a little humility might be a good thing. If you think society would do best in a condition of unrestrained pride and reckless striving, I assure you it would be quite unlivable. Even Scientology at it's highest ranks ends with people chanting to themselves that they are the I AM - the very blaspheming pride that brought about sin in the first place. Having talked to a number of people so full of pride that they sincerely believe that they ARE god, the checks and balances of humility are in fact crucial to avoid the snares of ego-feeding control artists (religious or otherwise).

We all understand that growth and learning occur, but overstating one's ability is as destructive as understating it.
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June 25, 2013, 03:27:41 AM
Last edit: June 25, 2013, 03:37:58 AM by ktttn
 #717

Is god in the seventh dimension?

  I stopped watching when he said "This is my video blog post for November fourteenth, two thousand seven." The man clearly has no grasp of the fourth dimension, how can he know about the tenth?
You didn't just skip forward? You're an ignorant twat. successful troll. Go rewatch goddammit.

http://tenthdimension.com/textonly.php
Quote from: Rob Bryanton
The Fourth Dimension –A Line Okay. The first three dimensions can be described with these words: “length, width, and depth”. What word can we assign to the fourth dimension? One answer would be, “duration”. If we think of ourselves as we were one minute ago, and then imagine ourselves as we are at this moment, the line we could draw from the “one-minute-ago version” to the “right now” version would be a line in the fourth dimension. If you were to see your body in the fourth dimension, you would be like a long undulating snake, with your embryonic self at one end and your deceased self at the other. But because we live from moment to moment in the third dimension, we are like our second dimensional Flatlanders. Just like that Flatlander who could only see two-dimensional cross-sections of objects from the dimension above, we as three-dimensional creatures can only see three-dimensional cross-sections of our fourth-dimensional self.

Wit all my solidarities,
-ktttn
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June 25, 2013, 03:32:32 AM
 #718

But as humans we have finite brains.  There is a limit to what we can understand. 

Please don't call yourself dumb, and don't limit yourself in what you can achieve. That right there is the single worst thing about religion, where it convinces people that they will never understand, and makes them stop trying.

    There are natural talents, and I think it's more relevant to try an recognize and value the innate talents in each person than to say that every kid can be gifted at culturally biased IQ tests...

     We were talking about this before... the brain is a temporally evolved organ with the purpose of helping us navigate environments that change with time. Memory helps us remember where certain roots grow, intuition helps us interpret huge quantities of data to calculate where a herd of animals might be at a certain time of year, critical thinking and problem solving helps us come up with novel solutions like more effective and easier to transport shelters and tools. There is no sense in the brain having a capacity to comprehend timelessness- it would occupy resources that can be better used for survival.

     We do have the gift of contemplating our origins though, but to experience that it's like this near death experience- there is such a thing as spiritual perception, and its only by conditioning that we are trained to blind ourselves to that reality. Which is understandable, since all of the power structures of the elite of modern society are based on a denial of whatever cannot be perceived by the five senses and the technical apparati thereof (telescopes, microscopes, geiger meters, MRI's). It stands to reason that since scientific observers are continually discovering levels of reality that we didn't know existed before, that there is a lot more to discover.

   If you are interested in seeing what it is like to perceive without using your five senses, pm me.
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June 25, 2013, 04:01:31 PM
 #719

On the flip side, if you think you are in fact limitless, a little humility might be a good thing. If you think society would do best in a condition of unrestrained pride and reckless striving, I assure you it would be quite unlivable.

But it's the religious that live in reckless pride, thinking that they "know" him, and through him all the answers can be found, or just thinking that they are better, because they don't have to know. They have smug pride in thinking that they are better than non-believers, because they know or understand something sciency non-believer types do not.


Unbelievers who are striving to know more through science and research get plenty of humility, just from the fact that they see how vast the universe is, and actually understand just how much there is out there that they don't yet understand. Unlike religion, that gives you the answer and convinces you that you already know, science exists with one giant understanding that we don't know yet, and need to test every assumption to find out more.

As for reckless striving, you can thank that for things like computers, cars, planes, etc, since the alternative used to be getting burned at the stake for being a witch.

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June 25, 2013, 04:09:18 PM
 #720

    We do have the gift of contemplating our origins though, but to experience that it's like this near death experience- there is such a thing as spiritual perception, and its only by conditioning that we are trained to blind ourselves to that reality. Which is understandable, since all of the power structures of the elite of modern society are based on a denial of whatever cannot be perceived by the five senses and the technical apparati thereof (telescopes, microscopes, geiger meters, MRI's). It stands to reason that since scientific observers are continually discovering levels of reality that we didn't know existed before, that there is a lot more to discover.

Sure, there are still plenty of things we have yet to discover, which we try to discover using our senses and our tools. But if there is something out there that we can never perceive with our five senses or the tools we use, then why is any of it relevant? By definition it has absolutely no effect on us, our tools, or our perceived reality. Even if we anger some supreme deity by assuming that it doesn't exist, if it can't affect us, our senses, or our tools in any way, what consequence is there to us?

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