Haasonline Simple Trade Bot For BTCe and Bitstamp[Main topic]

[Stephan224]

Thanks r32godzilla.

Support for Cryptsy is coming this month, i am writing the library myself now and it is going very well.

If you like the software already, you are gonna love the update i am planning. I can not disclose to much (NDA) but i can tell there will be graphs inside and i can tell i have changed the entire interface. The change in the interface was required because of the new approach and because of the new features i am introducing. Sound good? Just wait until i unveil all the changes and screenshots....

By the way:
Wilco requested a while ago to post some results. I did a trade run on my speculation rig for 44 hours the past 2 days on Bitstamp and BTCe at BtcUsd. I ran the RSI-30 bot on it at its default settings (30/70) and a update interval of 60seconds. The drop and profit safeties where set to 0.1 Usd. I traded 1 BTC and i made about 5 USD per exchange. I know this is low, but this is just a demonstration of what is possible by default.

[drawingthesun]

Is anyone making profits with this? Seems like a good bot.

[seanrarey]

Is anyone making profits with this? Seems like a good bot.

I am a couple of days into playing with it, and I have to admit I am struggling with the logic of getting it set up right.  I am sure that it is me & not the bot (maybe I am just not smart enough), but I will definitely keep this board appraised of my progress.

[Stephan224]

The profit you can make depends on the currency (and exchange) you have selected and how it evolves in time. It also depends on how you setup the trade bot parameters. The software itself uses technical indicators and a drop/profit threshold to determine if it is allowed to trade. So the indicators are responsible for the momentum. The drop/profit is responsible for earning at least a X amount. The real buy and sell prices are not equal to the last prices and the drop/profit amount. It well be higher because of the momentum the technical indicators produce.

When you get this software you have to understand you need to learn what good bot settings are. I (as the developer) are not allowed to tell you which setting i use because of a agreement i have with the exchanges. (they required that every user must be unique) But at the most default settings the software itself gives already profit. If you change the settings you can get higher profits.

You also need to understand this software requires time. You can not start it and get rich in a instant. No, this is not done. You have to wait for the evolution of the currency. So keep in mind this kind of software has been build for 24/7, not for just a hour or so.

The update that i will introduce will assist you more in finding some good bot parameters, it will also help you to find a good moment the bot can be activated. Both are things are a issue right now, like seanrarey reports. But it is planned to be (a lot) better in the near future. (sorry, NDA)

To get a indication how much you can earn you can have a look at the currency. A currency changes in time and it goes from low to high and back. The difference between this low and high is the part the trade bot could get in and out. So this will be a indication for the possible profits. You can see it like this: If the currency evolves between 117 and 118 the trade bot could make a profit of 1. It will be lower because of the momentum, but this is a example. So each "wave" it goes from 117 to 118 and back you can get 1 per coin you trade. The more coins you put in, the bigger the profit will be. This is the concept behind it.

Like i posted today i have done a trade run at Bitstamp and BTCe on BtcUsd the last 2 days. (44hours to be exact) I have earned 5 Usd per exchange, so i made 10 Usd in total. But again, this is just a example on default settings. Higher is possible, i have seen it happening.

[seanrarey]

I am an experienced trader and own two other bots, but I must admit I am frustrated with this one.  As has been noted by others trying to use this bot, it _appears_ to want to try to trade "backwards".

I did follow the instructions carefully, and double, triple and quadruple-checked with the help files.  They are far from clear, so let me go over them "aloud" here, and maybe somebody can tell me what I am doing wrong.

>>> I have USD in the trade account, so I start the bot near the bottom of what I believe to be the trade swing, setting the "Last Buy" tab to "sold".   I start both RSI bots, using recommended settings;  20sec intervals, buy @ 30% sell @70%, minimum profit block * 6.  To the best of my understanding, this is basic "should work" settings as outlined in the help text.

After watching the bot at these and similar settings, it appears to want to trade backward.  As trade value falls, the RSI numbers go _UP_, indicating the bot wants to sell.  No sale occur because the bot is already in "sold" mode, but no buy occurs low as it should because the RSI is high & high = sell.

I am familiar with RSI, but the bot seems to be using it somehow and for some reason in reverse...?

Having missed the opportunity to buy low, the price will eventually start to rise... and the RSI #s will _drop_!  Low is a buy indicator, so as the price gets high enough, the bot will buy... high!  Having bought high, it will not then sell higher... because the RSI numbers continue to drop (it would keep buying if it could).  Eventually the price will drop, and as it passes where the bot purchased, the RSI will rise... and the bot tries to sell low.  Sensing loss, the "block trade" settings cut in and no trade occurs, but the bot keeps trying the lower it gets ("8:16:27 AM RSI-30 Bot: Profit is too low.
8:16:58 AM RSI-30 bot: Sell level reached 73 %
8:16:58 AM RSI-30 Bot: Calculated profit -0.19 Usd (without fee) (last buy value 123.6 Usd, current sell").

I have tested this with dozens of settings close to the suggested settings, on both BTCe and BitStamp.  I have racked up a lot of trade fees in testing and can tell you that over a period of two days the bot is like clock-work; trying to buy high and sell low.  The log fills up with low sell attempts  but it never tries to sell when it is high & could have made a profit.

Now Stephan, I completely accept that it is me; I am doing something wrong.  The problem is that I have spent hours reading every word in this forum and on you website trying to figure out what it is, and I am at a loss (literally lol).

Now that I have voiced my frustrations, let try to get off the ground with a very specific question:  The default setting in the bot for a sell threshold is RSI 70%.  This is sound RSI thinking.  Why then does the RSI number in the bot _fall_ as the price rises?  Low = buy, which is _exactly_ what the bot does... it buys high every time I let it.

[seanrarey]

Testing continues.

Because I cannot get the bot to do anything that remotely makes any sense to me (or make a profitable trade) I performed the following test in the last few hours:

Settings:
Interval = 30000ms
Trade amount = .1
Block trade if profit < .3
Block trade if drop  < .3
Buy @ 38
Sell @ 62

I gave the bot an account with both USD and BTC in it, so it could do what it wanted.  I placed the bot in the water @ $121.  Feeling this was a low point in the market, I selected the SOLD tabs, hoping the bot would use the USD to purchase BTC at the low prices.  With the price initially pretty calm @ 121, the bot's RSI score settled in around a sensible 50.

Over the next few hours I watched the price eb and flow.  When the price would rise, the bot's RSI numbers would drop... pushing it toward a buy (38).  When the price would fall, the RSI would rise, pushing it toward a sell (62).  Over the next 3 hours the price fell all the way to 118 (a damn good buy).  The bot's RSI stayed high ( >70) and would have _sold_ down there if not for the SOLD tab already being checked.

After an hour or so the price recovered and the RSI evened out to around 50 before a brief spike to 122... RSI dropped, and the bot made the purchase AT THE VERY HIGHEST POINT IF COULD in the 5 hour test.

Since that time, the bot has repeatedly tried to sell that purchase low, with the message "SELL LEVEL REACHED" followed by the stop-loss kicking in by saying "PROFIT IS TOO LOW" (duh).

FINDINGS:  Under normal market conditions and with the settings above, this bot tries to buy high and sell low; but is stopped by it's own safeguards (thankfully).

Can somebody _please_ tell me what I am doing wrong here? 

[Stephan224]

@seanrarey:
I can explain what is happening...

First lets look at the RSI itself. Like i wrote down at the help the RSI indicator is interval based. This means the RSI indicator is using interval based prices as a reference instead of the day based prices. This is the main cause why the RSI indicator responses so fast and why there are 2 indicators inside the st bot.

The RSI stand for Relative Strength Index and it means it gives you a indication to where the currency is going. If the currency is going up then the indicator should go up too. When the currency is dropping the indicator will do down. The interval based RSI uses the last known prices for each calculation. So the RSI-30 uses the last 30 interval prices and the RSI-60 uses 60 interval prices.

I have made some graphs to show you the signal of the RSI bot.


The first graph is the graph of the currency, in this case it is Bitstamp at BtcUsd. The green line is the buy price and the red line is the sell price. The second graph is a graph of the RSI-30 its response. The blue line is the RSI value. The red line (70 = 70%) indicates from where the bot begins to send the signal to sell*. In this case it is at 70 and up. The same applies to the green line, but then its 30% and less. The third graph is one of the RSI-60 bot. Notice the slower response to the currency of the RSI-60 compared to the one of RSI-30.

* ) The sell signal is visible in the logbook as: Sell level reached xx %

Once the RSI indicates the buy or sell signal the trade bot will look to your last prices and wanted drop or raise. The difference is called the "calculated drop" or "calculated raise". This part will also be visible in the logbook as:

RSI-30 Bot: Profit is too low.
Calculated profit -0.19 Usd (without fee) (last buy value 123.6 Usd, current sell price xxxxx Usd).

So this message only shows that if the coins are sold right now, as the RSI indicator wants, then you will be making losses on the trade. So the result is that the trade is blocked until the amount of profit is found too.

Only and only if both signals tell to sell or buy the trade bot will react on it.

BTW These graphs are produced by the software. So what you see here is exactly the response of the software and its calculations.

Your exact problem are your last buy and sell prices and possibly your drop** and profit**. Looking at your entice description i think the sell level is never found. The solution is to lower the last buy or sell prices or to set them to 0.

** ) The need to be multiplied by the trade amount.
I hope this clear up all the questions you have asked.

[seanrarey]

It is possible that I am dense or insane.  Because what you say makes perfect sense, and it is why I purchased the bot; but it is not what I am witnessing happen with my own eyes.  Let me break a few things down:

RSI.  Thank you for the very good description of how it works, but I am actually very familiar with RSI & have used it in trading (manually) for years.  So I know how it is _supposed_ to work.

____________snip________________
"The RSI stand for Relative Strength Index and it means it gives you a indication to where the currency is going. If the currency is going up then the indicator should go up too. When the currency is dropping the indicator will do down."
____________snip________________

Exactly.  I know.  And you know (because I am quoting you above).  But I have been sitting in front of my screen now for two days watching the bot work... and that is _not_ what the bot is doing.  For the RSI-30 and RSI-60 boxes, when the price goes up the indicator number goes _down_.  Really.  Seriously.  Without fail.  When the price goes down the number goes _up_.  Seriously!  Without fail!  It is just like I accidentally installed something upside-down in this machine.

The machine then acts the way it is supposed to based on the numbers, except in reverse.  I know other people are using this, so yes, it sounds crazy to me too, that is why I have studied it so hard for 2 days before coming to you.

_____________snip_____________
"Your exact problem are your last buy and sell prices and possibly your drop** and profit**. Looking at your entice description i think the sell level is never found. The solution is to lower the last buy or sell prices or to set them to 0."
_____________snip_____________

I _do_ keep resetting buy & sell to 0 to take that out of the equation, and my drop** & profit** are per spec (check the settings I posted).

Stephan, this is all coming back to one thing.  I understand what the bot is _supposed_ to do.  I understand RSI very well.  The problem I am having is the RSI-30 & RSI-60 boxes.  Those numbers are rising when they should fall, and falling when they should rise and it is truly causing the bot to work upside-down.

Is it possible I am using a version with a bug in it?

[Stephan224]

Which version are you using?
I could start your version (i have all versions here) and the latest version to see it there is a difference. (i will go to bed soon, so i will do this tomorrow)

But in advance... the graphs that i have posted are screenshots taken from the simple trade bot (modified to one image) of the coming update. So you can really reproduce anything that i have said. But you can do this by the end of September.

There will be no changes made to the existing calculations, they should be exactly the same.

[seanrarey]

I am using v0.8.6.0.  Is there a later version?

As I write this the bot is running on the other screen.  No joke, I am watching real-time as the RSI indicators go up when then should go down, and down when they should go up.

Maybe I should make a video for you so you can see I am not crazy?

[Stephan224]

Lol, i believe you are not crazy. And i am only try to help you. In 10 hours or so i will so a simple test where i will compare the RSI values of your version to mine here, if there is a bug it must become visible, and if so i will fix it directly.

[seanrarey]

I am not sure how to upload images here, or I would post a screen capture I just made.  It shows the red candles on BTC-e as the market is going down, and the RSI indicators in the bot rising.

Since my last posts I have un-installed the bot, deleted all files I could find & re-installed.  Same behavior.  I then installed a 2nd copy of the bot on another machine and gave it another account.  I now have 2 machines running the bot, one on BTC/USD, and a 2nd on BTC/LTC.

Both bots have run all day on suggested settings with identical behavior.  When the RSI on the bots is rising, I can be assured 100% that I will look at the market and it is declining.  RSI on the bots falling, corresponds 100% with a rising market.

100% of the time both bots will buy as high as the market will let them, then try for hours on end to sell low.  This behavior is completely understandable given the RSI signal is reversed.

Now, after 3 days of constant testing (very little sleep) I am quite confident when I report that this software is broken and does not work.  This is particularly troublesome because there are reports on here of people using the software & making money with it.  Not the software I got they are not!

Finally, I understand that this is beta-ware Stephan, but I paid you $75 for this because it was advertised as tested and working.  What I bought is badly broken, and all I have gotten so far for my money is spending 3 days & nights of frustration trying to trouble-shoot your software for you.

I hope you can make this right.

Sean

[Stephan224]

Hi Sean,

If you would be so kind to give me some time then i can give you the service and support you require. I need to reproduce the bug and i need to confirm you are right. If you are right i will solve the issue and send a update around. But please, give me some time to do so. And please do not make bold statements like the software does not work, because you and i both know this is not true. You even have confirmed the safeties are operational and i am sure that the high/low and the trade ratio bot are both still working as expected. In the worst-case the users will not lose coins because of this software.

I really do not understand why you complain and why you complain is this way. The software you have got works as expected, like i stated it have been tested by others (who i do not know in person) to confirm it too. If there is a bug, like in your case, i will assist you within 24-hours and if needed i will look deeper and solve the issue. This is the service i promised and this is the service you will be getting.

So please stop your complains, give me some time and everything will be alright. I have already proven this a lot of times before.

Stephan

[seanrarey]

Hi Sean,

If you would be so kind to give me some time then i can give you the service and support you require. I need to reproduce the bug and i need to confirm you are right. If you are right i will solve the issue and send a update around. But please, give me some time to do so. And please do not make bold statements like the software does not work, because you and i both know this is not true. You even have confirmed the safeties are operational and i am sure that the high/low and the trade ratio bot are both still working as expected. In the worst-case the users will not lose coins because of this software.

I really do not understand why you complain and why you complain is this way. The software you have got works as expected, like i stated it have been tested by others (who i do not know in person) to confirm it too. If there is a bug, like in your case, i will assist you within 24-hours and if needed i will look deeper and solve the issue. This is the service i promised and this is the service you will be getting.

So please stop your complains, give me some time and everything will be alright. I have already proven this a lot of times before.

Stephan

Yes Stephen, of course I will give you time to find/correct the issue.  I apologize for coming off cranky, it is the result of spending the better part of 72hrs trying to make something work with no success.

I have turned it off now, and await a solution.

[Stephan224]

I have to admit i have seen the same happening during my reproduction here. So you are right, the RSI value gives a wrong result. But the result is not always wrong, the result seems to be wrong in some rare cases. It all comes down to the method i use to calculate the RSI value. If a currency is stable for at least 30 intervals and a change is happening then this bug becomes visible. The same happens when a currency is only dropping or raising, then the RSI value did not respond as expected.

The reason why i did not see this bug, and i guess the alpha testers too, is because it is only visible in some situations. It is not visible all the time. The earnings i made last monday and tuesday prove it, because i used the calculation method of the simple trade bot.

But i have some good news too, because i know where the problem is located i have solved it too already. At this moment i am doing my tests to confirm everything still works as expected and once i am done (in a few hours or so) then i will send a mail around to all the users to download the update. I will skip the alpha test cycle because the change i made was not related to trading itself.

There is no danger for the current users, the software will not make losses now, the safeties will ensure it. The update of tonight will only solve an RSI calculation issue.

Thank you for bringing this to my attention!

Edit:
That few hours will be a bit longer then i thought. But i will be back, i just want to make sure each exchange works and i am reviewing the RSI calculations. Sorry for the delay.

[seanrarey]

That is great news Stephan.  I am so glad that you were able to reproduce it; I was racking my brain how to show you what I was seeing.

Wow, just my luck to load it up as an unfamiliar user under conditions that caused it to behave the way it did.  I again apologize for my frustration.  Once I was able to track down _why_ the software did not work (the RSI engine was reversing), I got suspicious.  Your quick support and solutions have eased my mind, and I look forward to seeing this thing work the way it was designed to.

Even tho the software to date has been mal-functioning for me, I can so far attest to the safety features in the software.  They stopped the bot from making losing trades even tho it tried all week to do so.

Sean

[Stephan224]

I have made a update and as usual i have send everybody a email with instructions.

This are the changes of version 0.8.6.1 beta:
- Exchanges Nmc/Usd and Nvc/Usd are added to BTC-e.
- Italian have been added to the languages.
- Improvement: More detailed error messages.
- Bugfix: A RSI calculation issue has been solved.
- Some minor improvements are implemented.

I hope this solves all recent issues.

[seanrarey]

The RSI "reversing" issue seems to have been fixed, have not seen this behavior since the update.  What I am seeing it the RSI dropping to 0 after running a while, and staying there.  I have to restart the bot to get it back.  Anybody else seeing this?

[greghawk]

Hello Stephan,

Hopefully I´m not bothering you with stupid questions,
i´m pretty new to all this. I bouhgt your bot a few days ago and went down your help-site and stuck at this point:

"...Now lets go first to the profit safety. This safety must be enabled of course. Set the value of the profit safety to 0. Now activate a RSI bot for a brief moment until the log shows a error. If the error is shown de-activate the RSI bot to prevent unwanted sales. The error in the log will show you a minimum profit value. ..."

I´m not getting the Error with the profit value. Probably i´m doing something wrong. What could it be?
I tried it on BTC-e and Bitstamp too. Same on both. When I start the Program the safetys are filled automaticly with some equal values, that´s normal, right?

thx in advance
Greg

[seanrarey]

The problem I am having after getting the bot going it the RSI going to 0.0, & the bot stops doing anything.  Can you advise what would cause this?