Haasonline Simple Trade Bot For BTCe and Bitstamp[Main topic]

[krach]

"Can you explain how two indicators are combined to determine when a "Buy" and "Sell" are made?"
Hi,
There is only a buy or sell action when: ALL indicators that you have active say buy or sell & the price is enough above the last buy price or below the last sell price.

Bot bought at  1$ - now indicators say "BUY" but the price is only 1.001$ therefore you would make a loss on exchange fees, therefore there no action.


Having one indicator should cause more action and more indicators will have "stronger" signals, depending on how you set them up.

IMO you would have to organize the crossovers so they are "on beat" as if you where a dj. I have only tested this with 2x RSI but it works pertty good.
So if the crossover of indicator 1 is 10/20 then the next one would have to be the same, half, or double, then it is "on beat" otherwise you will have a lot less agreement and less signals. indicator one 10/20 and indicator two 20/40 ect. RSI works fine like that try default lenght 30 - 30/70 and then lenght 60 30/70 , then you will produce a singnal with wave forms that have shapes and not ones that "flange" if they flange then you wont have a clear signal. This is only one way to look at it, I suggest experimenting with really small ammounts of coin 0.01 btc or 0.1 ltc or 1 xpm ect ect.

[Stephan224]

I have collected the past days the comments about Cryptsy and i did found a problem with some new coins. Today i will make the needed changes and i will release a new version. If you do not have any problems with Cryptsy you do not have to update. This will be something like a quickfix.

@krach: Thanks for giving the answer.

@dldavis007: To most easy way it to look at the indicators as they are a sum. If they both agree on something a signal will be produced. (of course the safeties can stop this signal back for your safety)

[Stephan224]

Version 0.9.0.9 beta has just been released.

This release will affect the Cryptsy users the most. The following coins are added: Asc, Bet, Col, Doge, Dem, Xjo, Lk7, Pts, Tag, Tek, Tgc & Uno. Hopefully this will solve a lot of reported issues of Cryptsy. If not, please keep me posted about it.

I also fixed a bug inside the drop/raise safety within this release. If you normally disable this safety then there is no need to get this update.

Edit:
All existing users can uninstall the old version, download the new version at the My Account -page and install it again.

[dldavis007]

Krach,

"Can you explain how two indicators are combined to determine when a "Buy" and "Sell" are made?"
Hi,
There is only a buy or sell action when: ALL indicators that you have active say buy or sell & the price is enough above the last buy price or below the last sell price.

Bot bought at  1$ - now indicators say "BUY" but the price is only 1.001$ therefore you would make a loss on exchange fees, therefore there no action.


Having one indicator should cause more action and more indicators will have "stronger" signals, depending on how you set them up.

IMO you would have to organize the crossovers so they are "on beat" as if you where a dj. I have only tested this with 2x RSI but it works pertty good.
So if the crossover of indicator 1 is 10/20 then the next one would have to be the same, half, or double, then it is "on beat" otherwise you will have a lot less agreement and less signals. indicator one 10/20 and indicator two 20/40 ect. RSI works fine like that try default lenght 30 - 30/70 and then lenght 60 30/70 , then you will produce a singnal with wave forms that have shapes and not ones that "flange" if they flange then you wont have a clear signal. This is only one way to look at it, I suggest experimenting with really small ammounts of coin 0.01 btc or 0.1 ltc or 1 xpm ect ect.

Thanks for the suggestions, I will give them a try.

After trying out the PPO and Stochastic Indicators together, I finally realized that the PPO indicator doesn't just Sell on the crossing but at the crossing and after, so it makes more sense that the two indicators could work together.  In my tests, the combination of the two sometimes made the trades more profitable, but often caused the bot not to make a trade when it was obvious that it should have.

Overall, I'm not convinced that a PPO Indicator and a Stochastic Indicator will work well together.  The PPO Indicator usually signals a "Sell" just after a peak.  Since a Stochastic Indicator usually reacts faster than the PPO Indicator, I would expect that the Stochastic Indicator has already gotten out of the "Sell" condition and is probably headed for a "Buy" condition.   

It seems that the only way to satisfy both indicators would be a rally with a small dip followed by a continuation of the rally.  In this case the trade would probably be more profitable than using the PPO Indicator alone.

Darrell

[RickJamesBTC]

Is there anything else with the new software release if you don't trade on cryptsy?

[bx8389]

"Can you explain how two indicators are combined to determine when a "Buy" and "Sell" are made?"
Hi,
There is only a buy or sell action when: ALL indicators that you have active say buy or sell & the price is enough above the last buy price or below the last sell price.

Bot bought at  1$ - now indicators say "BUY" but the price is only 1.001$ therefore you would make a loss on exchange fees, therefore there no action.


Having one indicator should cause more action and more indicators will have "stronger" signals, depending on how you set them up.

IMO you would have to organize the crossovers so they are "on beat" as if you where a dj. I have only tested this with 2x RSI but it works pertty good.
So if the crossover of indicator 1 is 10/20 then the next one would have to be the same, half, or double, then it is "on beat" otherwise you will have a lot less agreement and less signals. indicator one 10/20 and indicator two 20/40 ect. RSI works fine like that try default lenght 30 - 30/70 and then lenght 60 30/70 , then you will produce a singnal with wave forms that have shapes and not ones that "flange" if they flange then you wont have a clear signal. This is only one way to look at it, I suggest experimenting with really small ammounts of coin 0.01 btc or 0.1 ltc or 1 xpm ect ect.

Stephen: I lost almost 2 last weeks triyng every combination and benchmarking but i am unable to get bot do what i want: I think this metod to combine indicators very limitative ( for instance example above w/ Stochastic not in sync ) and for me is impossible in only one combination of functions put differents strategies for  up and down trends.

Until now bot only gave me loses and even drop loss mechanism is not reliable ( at least w/ Bitstamp ).

I suported this bot because i want to avoid time to learn metatrader 4 but lost time on this bot seems, for me, enough put MT4 to work ( and it is free for BTC-e clients ).

Please: Have plans to make avaliable a interface so I can write my own functions-like mt4?
Also: Maybe all this is my fault but i have read almost all of this thread and haven't found someone posting a working configuration for this BOT, only "educational" examples. Is secret or someone can share a good working configuration?

I think this bot is really simple and have many good functions and potential but lack flexibility. One example: possibility to  Buy/sell be dependent from one function result OR other function result. Or something as bot buy at x ( x is last buy value ) do normal operation but if anytime current value is below 95% of x bot should sell all values imediatly.

Regards
 
  

[silverston]

Please: Have plans to make avaliable a interface so I can write my own functions-like mt4?
Also: Maybe all this is my fault but i have read almost all of this thread and haven't found someone posting a working configuration for this BOT, only "educational" examples. Is secret or someone can share a good working configuration?

I think this bot is really simple and have many good functions and potential but lack flexibility. One example: possibility to  Buy/sell be dependent from one function result OR other function result. Or something as bot buy at x ( x is last buy value ) do normal operation but if anytime current value is below 95% of x bot should sell all values imediatly.

Regards
 
  

same thing.

[subhead]

Please: Have plans to make avaliable a interface so I can write my own functions-like mt4?
Also: Maybe all this is my fault but i have read almost all of this thread and haven't found someone posting a working configuration for this BOT, only "educational" examples. Is secret or someone can share a good working configuration?

I think this bot is really simple and have many good functions and potential but lack flexibility. One example: possibility to  Buy/sell be dependent from one function result OR other function result. Or something as bot buy at x ( x is last buy value ) do normal operation but if anytime current value is below 95% of x bot should sell all values imediatly.

Regards
 
  

same thing.

i know this feeling. i got small success with the bot but over all i dont think (for me) buying this bot was worth the money. also i have a feeling that when u want to make some money with this bot you have to trade large amounts. It´s kind of strange when the bot only makes 2 trades a day and earns some cents. Also some buy and sell patters are more then wierd.

i really have hope in the advanced version of this bot. But i dont think that i buy the advanced version. It makes no sense for me because the simple bot didnt payed for itself.

The guides on haasonline are okay but in the end only  short introduction into the indicators. These explanations can be found all over the internet. Why not explain how to adapt these indicators for an proper configuration? When i need to read up all by myself where is the point in an bot?

[dldavis007]

I also seem to be losing money when using this bot.

I have notice though that the recent rallies on BTC-e are not significant enough for this bot to really be successful for rapid trading (completing trades in around 10-15 minutes).  For instance, two nights ago, I was able to make about $70 (I ended up losing about $30 of that though) by manually trading on BTC-e.  The peaks and valleys of the opens and closes were not really high enough to allow the bot to make money.  During my manual trading, I had to anticipate that the "Buys" and "Sells" would shoot up somewhat higher and lower than the opening and closing prices and put in the appropriate Buy and Sell orders on BTC-e.  There is no way the bot could have traded in this manner.  The main reason for this, is that the bot will never see the larger swings, they occur just too fast for the bot to see.  This really became evident when I ran the benchmark on the same historical data that I was able to manually make money on.  I don't remember the exact amount, but I think the bot said it would have made about $15.  I've also noticed that the Benchmark profit does not seem to have the Fee taken out, so the $15 was probably even less.

I also still have not found a combination of indicators that I am satisfied will make my trades more profitable.

I haven't given up hope yet though, I think this bot could make money over longer periods of time, such as when the price changes in the range of $20 or more.

Has anyone had any luck with "Price Change Indicator"?  I have tried several times to get it to work, but haven't figured it out yet.  I would like to use it to make sure that the trades exceed the Fees by a couple of dollars.  I suspect that a lot of the trades are too close to the price of the fee and I am constantly losing a little money on each transaction.  I know without a doubt that this has happened in the past when I was trading with 0.1 btc.  After a run of a couple of hours, the bot said I made a few dollars, but looking at the trade history on BTC-e I actually lost a few dollars.

Darrell

[subhead]

i also struggle hard with the price change indicator. Some explanation would be nice.

[dldavis007]

I played with the "Price Change Indicator" and it does seem to work.  It is actually quite simple and seems to work very well.

I am going to combine it with a PPO Indicator with the "Sell at price: (or higher)" set to around $6 and the "Buy at price: (or lower)" set to $0.  This should make sure that my trades are profitable (fee for 2btc trade is around $2.5 * 2 = $5).

I will let you know what happens.

Darrell

[dldavis007]

subhead,

If you are like me you are probably making it seem harder than it really is.


If you want your trades to always be greater than $5, set the "Sell at price: (or above)" to 5.000000.  This will ensure that the Sell price is always $5 or more greater than the Buy price.

The "Buy at price: (or below)" will force the bot to make the next buy at a price lower than the last sell (I'm not sure why you would want to always do this), so if you set it to -$5, the bot will make sure the price is $5 lower than the last sell when it makes the next Buy.  You can play around with this, but I would recommend setting it to $0.

I hope this helps.

Try it with the benchmark on some historical data (I can post a link to some if you haven't saved any).

Darrell

[dldavis007]

subhead,

After some thought, it might be wise to put a small amount in to the "Buy at price: (or below)",  I've often seen the bot "Sell" then almost immediately "Buy" because of a small dip in the rally.  Often this would leave the bot in a "Bought" position during the start of a down trend.  So, I guess there is a purpose for using the "Buy at price: (or below)".

Darrell

[dldavis007]

subhead,

I found that you must not check the "Reset last buy and sell price after sell command" in the Advanced Settings, if you want the "Buy at price: (or below)" to function properly. 

I also found that it is best to keep the "Buy at price: (or below)" about half or less then the value of the "Sell at price: (or above)" setting.

Darrell

[krach]

"anticipate "
Bots have 0 to do with antiipation and everything to do with "reaction" most apis can handle updates every 20 seconds so if the dip is faster than that it wont be able to react. The advantage of the bot is not speed, it is the lack of emotion and the lack of a crystal ball, trollbox, twitter or other influences. It only reacts to facts and that is it. You -can- be faster with manual trades.
" would like to use it to make sure that the trades exceed the Fees by a couple of dollars."
The bot automaticly trades above fees, so that you do not lose money by paying fees. If you want a bigger span then adjust the price difference to a couple of bucks and it will wait untill that threshold is reached.
We have to ask stefan if the trade log profit includes the fees or not.

[Soak]

Hello,

I just bought the bot. I don't want to make a lot of profit. Even if I make $10 or $20 per day with 1 BTC I would be happy.

I know the question has certainly been asked a lot of time but what settings do you recommand to put? I don't want to modify all the settings and I hoped the bot can works by itself but visibly I need to put some indicators.

So what's the point?

Thank you if anyone can take the time to answer me.

[Stephan224]

Looking to the responses, it beginning to look like i do have a secret.  

If you have tested a bunch of strategies and you are still unable to make some nice profits you should look at the setting you did not change. I know this sound stupid you have maybe tested them all, but i sure there is one you did not change. It the same setting all the users share if they report low profits amounts.

The answer/secret is the update timer.

At each advice i give i always recommend a update time of at least 60seconds. Why? Well at 20seconds the response would be to fast for most of the indicators. The effect is that trades will take place to soon. (aka almost no profit)

When you use at least 60seconds the ups and downs of a currency will become more clear. The indicators will benefit from this because it detect bigger changes and this way the outcome can be calculated better too. The bigger ups and downs will also result in much more profit.

I love the way krach explained this:

The advantage of the bot is not speed, it is the lack of emotion and the lack of a crystal ball, trollbox, twitter or other influences. It only reacts to facts and that is it.

He is totally right about this.

However. If you want to trade at 20seconds, it is possible to do with the high/low and the price change indicator. Both do not need time to calculate a respond signal.

BTW At the coming big update of January 2014 i can disclose the 20seconds will be gone!

@Soak:
http://www.haasonline.com/trading-strategies/

[subhead]

If you have tested a bunch of strategies and you are still unable to make some nice profits you should look at the setting you did not change. I know this sound stupid you have maybe tested them all, but i sure there is one you did not change. It the same setting all the users share if they report low profits amounts.

thats a perfect example of a "miracle" answer. maybe you could explain on your website all the options a bit better.

The answer/secret is the update timer.

At each advice i give i always recommend a update time of at least 60seconds. Why? Well at 20seconds the response would be to fast for most of the indicators. The effect is that trades will take place to soon. (aka almost no profit)

When you use at least 60seconds the ups and downs of a currency will become more clear. The indicators will benefit from this because it detect bigger changes and this way the outcome can be calculated better too. The bigger ups and downs will also result in much more profit

When we both talked in the past about my problem you told me that i should use an bigger interval. Since then i use an 180seconds interval with an PPO indicator. Is it okay to use such an big interval with and PPO indicator? Is 180 overall to much or should i decrease the interval? With 180 seconds interval length i have that feeling that the bot misses really often the opportunity for an profitable trade (at least this is my impression).

However. If you want to trade at 20seconds, it is possible to do with the high/low and the price change indicator. Both do not need time to calculate a respond signal.

BTW At the coming big update of January 2014 i can disclose the 20seconds will be gone!

When you read this thread carefully you see that a lot of people have problems settings up these high/low and price change indicators. Could you please provide an example of these indicators.

btw: merry christmas to all!

cheers,
subhead

[Stephan224]

I am happy to explain them. But i am unable to give some real examples, you need to look whats going on at that moment with the prices.

High/Low Indicator
The high/low indicator is easy... just look at a chart. Between which prices does the price goes up and down? (whats the highest and whats the lowest price?)

Lets say the average price (or the price now) is $100. When you look at the chart you see that the price was $120 (high) and $80 (low) earlier that day. Well at that moment you could add a high/low indicator with the settings at buy < $80 and sell > $120.

However, if i would set these values i would set $90 and $110. The reason is because it is not very likely the $80 and $120 will be reached the next day when the bot is active. Besides with $90 and $110 i would get more buy and sell signals making more trades and this is more profit.

Please note: If the prices goes higher or lower then the given prices the bot will stop responding.

Price change indicator
The price change indicator responds to movement of the market price and the last buy and sell prices of the trade-bot.

For example, lets say your trade-bot has bought for the last price of $100. And you have added the price indicator with $+10 and $-10. In this cause the indicator will wait for a market price of $110. (last buy price=$100, wanted change $+10= $110) Now lets say your trade-bot has sold its coins for the price of $110. Now the indicator will look for a market price of $100 again. (last sell price=$110, wanted change $-10= $100)

The given $+10 and $-10 did i get by looking at the chart. If the average price movement is about $12 or more then $10 will do fine.

Please note: Due market movement it is more likely this indicator will sell at little higher price (> $110) and buy at a little lower price (< $100).

Please note: Do NOT reset your last buy and sell prices if you use this indicator. This indicator uses the last buy and sell prices.

PPO indicator
The PPO indicator is very simulair to the MACD-MA (or MACD-Histogram) the only difference is that the PPO percentage based. So the outcome is a little different.

Setting up the PPO can be done the same way. You can use 2minutes updates, 3minutes updates and up.

@subhead:
I understand you think you miss momentum. It is true and it is not true, i will explain it; Just open any chart on the internet that shows you the prices and at least 2 moving averages. Now play with the time setting. Do you see what happens? The cross-over momentum changes. The same happens to the simple trade bot when you use a different time interval.

 

BTW Merry Christmas to everybody at the forum here too!

[afia]

TS can u post benchmark files for long period. i suppose u have them. plz
u have done really nice bot. don't forget to do it for x768 screen resolution. and i have another suggestion to add simple martin to it.

any suggestion on wine support?

Code:

PLATFORM VERSION INFO
	Windows 			: 6.1.7601.65536 (Win32NT)
	Common Language Runtime 	: 4.0.30319.17929
	System.Deployment.dll 		: 4.0.30319.17929 built by: FX45RTMREL
	clr.dll 			: 4.0.30319.17929 built by: FX45RTMREL
	dfdll.dll 			: 4.0.30319.17929 built by: FX45RTMREL
	dfshim.dll 			: 4.0.31106.0 (Main.031106-0000)

SOURCES
	Deployment url			: file:///Z:/SimpleTradeBot0909beta.zip%20Folder/SimpleTradeBot2.application

ERROR SUMMARY
	Below is a summary of the errors, details of these errors are listed later in the log.
	* Activation of Z:\SimpleTradeBot0909beta.zip Folder\SimpleTradeBot2.application resulted in exception. Following failure messages were detected:
		+ Exception has been thrown by the target of an invocation.
		+ External component has thrown an exception.

COMPONENT STORE TRANSACTION FAILURE SUMMARY
	No transaction error was detected.

WARNINGS
	There were no warnings during this operation.

OPERATION PROGRESS STATUS
	* [25.12.2013 6:16:13] : Activation of Z:\SimpleTradeBot0909beta.zip Folder\SimpleTradeBot2.application has started.

ERROR DETAILS
	Following errors were detected during this operation.
	* [25.12.2013 6:16:13] System.Reflection.TargetInvocationException
		- Exception has been thrown by the target of an invocation.
		- Source: mscorlib
		- Stack trace:
			at System.RuntimeMethodHandle.InvokeMethod(Object target, Object[] arguments, Signature sig, Boolean constructor)
			at System.Reflection.RuntimeConstructorInfo.Invoke(BindingFlags invokeAttr, Binder binder, Object[] parameters, CultureInfo culture)
			at System.Security.Cryptography.CryptoConfig.CreateFromName(String name, Object[] args)
			at System.Security.Cryptography.SignatureDescription.CreateDigest()
			at System.Security.Cryptography.Xml.SignedXml.CheckSignedInfo(AsymmetricAlgorithm key)
			at System.Security.Cryptography.Xml.SignedXml.CheckSignature(AsymmetricAlgorithm key)
			at System.Security.Cryptography.Xml.SignedXml.CheckSignatureReturningKey(AsymmetricAlgorithm& signingKey)
			at System.Deployment.Internal.CodeSigning.SignedCmiManifest.Verify(CmiManifestVerifyFlags verifyFlags)
			at System.Deployment.Application.Manifest.AssemblyManifest.ValidateSignature(Stream s)
			at System.Deployment.Application.ManifestReader.FromDocument(String localPath, ManifestType manifestType, Uri sourceUri)
			at System.Deployment.Application.DownloadManager.DownloadDeploymentManifestDirectBypass(SubscriptionStore subStore, Uri& sourceUri, TempFile& tempFile, SubscriptionState& subState, IDownloadNotification notification, DownloadOptions options, ServerInformation& serverInformation)
			at System.Deployment.Application.DownloadManager.DownloadDeploymentManifestBypass(SubscriptionStore subStore, Uri& sourceUri, TempFile& tempFile, SubscriptionState& subState, IDownloadNotification notification, DownloadOptions options)
			at System.Deployment.Application.ApplicationActivator.PerformDeploymentActivation(Uri activationUri, Boolean isShortcut, String textualSubId, String deploymentProviderUrlFromExtension, BrowserSettings browserSettings, String& errorPageUrl)
			at System.Deployment.Application.ApplicationActivator.ActivateDeploymentWorker(Object state)
		--- Inner Exception ---
		System.Runtime.InteropServices.SEHException
		- External component has thrown an exception.
		- Source: System.Core
		- Stack trace:
			at System.Security.Cryptography.BCryptNative.UnsafeNativeMethods.BCryptOpenAlgorithmProvider(SafeBCryptAlgorithmHandle& phAlgorithm, String pszAlgId, String pszImplementation, Int32 dwFlags)
			at System.Security.Cryptography.BCryptNative.OpenAlgorithm(String algorithm, String implementation)
			at System.Security.Cryptography.BCryptAlgorithmHandleCache.GetCachedAlgorithmHandle(String algorithm, String implementation)
			at System.Security.Cryptography.BCryptHashAlgorithm..ctor(CngAlgorithm algorithm, String implementation)
			at System.Security.Cryptography.SHA256Cng..ctor()

COMPONENT STORE TRANSACTION DETAILS
	No transaction information is available.