[OPEN] Confirmed*PAID* USA NO VAT KnC Neptune#3 - .25 BTC = 17 Shares = ~60 Gh/s

[dbasql]

If there is any validity or hope of refund these units to need to be refunded with KNC like today. Once the units ship, I think the chance of us getting a refund is basically gone. And I don't trust ragin to tie his shoe if he tells us so, let alone run a group buy.

This 'too depressed to spend a minute to post anything' concept is fucking bullshit. Give me break. You know what would make me depressed? I gave a bunch of money to someone and he fucked off with it. That'd be depressing. Ragin is either incompetent or this was a scam from the get-go. I wonder if bilking us out over 50k will magically help Ragin's depression somehow.

I appreciate the work prodigits is doing, and hope it works out, he's the best bet going right now. But even besides that it is imperative that we get ragin's info released, as per terms of the agreement, so all of us have some sort of leverage, and the units cancelled from KNC, because again, if the units don't get cancelled, we aren't getting our money back, ragin will have all of our machines, and no desire to pay us back or ability to pay us back.

This^^^^

[danieldaniel]

I think refund must be made before the miners' delivery, after the delivery, it does make sense that he mine with our investment and refund us with the BTC he mined. However, If he does so, it will take him 30-60 days to mine the amount of each share.

Option 1:
I would propose if he cannot get us refunded before the units deliver, given the 2 THs of those miners in total, we can go IPO and sell the shares to whoever want to buy.

Option 2:
He pay us the refund with the miners with a 30% mining equipment rental fee per share until he pays off the refund. After that, the miners are his. It's good for all of us, we get our money back with 30% gain and he get the miners for free.

But... that makes no sense.  We paid to have a share of the miners... we didn't rent them.  He should pay us until they break, if he mines.

Why should he get free miners?

[chenchunyu88]

OK. You are right, I was think just give him some sweet stuff so that we can get our money back sooner.

I am afraid that he get the miners and just disappears.

I think refund must be made before the miners' delivery, after the delivery, it does make sense that he mine with our investment and refund us with the BTC he mined. However, If he does so, it will take him 30-60 days to mine the amount of each share.

Option 1:
I would propose if he cannot get us refunded before the units deliver, given the 2 THs of those miners in total, we can go IPO and sell the shares to whoever want to buy.

Option 2:
He pay us the refund with the miners with a 30% mining equipment rental fee per share until he pays off the refund. After that, the miners are his. It's good for all of us, we get our money back with 30% gain and he get the miners for free.

But... that makes no sense.  We paid to have a share of the miners... we didn't rent them.  He should pay us until they break, if he mines.

Why should he get free miners?

[Kushedout]

Priority should be changing the shipping address before its too late.

[chenchunyu88]

Can we vote to trust someone to host the miner for us?

The total requested amount for refund is 132.6BTC which is around 4.4 Saturn. How can we split the 0.4.

Priority should be changing the shipping address before its too late.

[Kushedout]

Can we vote to trust someone to host the miner for us?

My Vote goes for tyrion70 and Blastbob.

Tyrion70 has already offered his service to assist with this GB https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=233624.msg3044913#msg3044913

They have been very professional with every aspect of the KnC group buy(s) they run.
They are very prompt to post updates when new information is available and have already taken necessary steps to secure the locations, power supplies, etc.. ready to mine day 1.

We need to make a decision on this quick and submit the new address information to KnC.
I have a feeling once its out the door, we can kiss our BTC goodbye.

[dbasql]

Can we vote to trust someone to host the miner for us?

My Vote goes for tyrion70 and Blastbob.

Tyrion70 has already offered his service to assist with this GB https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=233624.msg3044913#msg3044913

They have been very professional with every aspect of the KnC group buy(s) they run.
They are very prompt to post updates when new information is available and have already taken necessary steps to secure the locations, power supplies, etc.. ready to mine day 1.

We need to make a decision on this quick and submit the new address information to KnC.
I have a feeling once its out the door, we can kiss our BTC goodbye.

These guys are great but this is wishful thinking IMO.
This dildo has allowed this entire thing to crumble around him do you think he is going to change the address even if he can? If the refunds are not an option we are all going to lose BTC.

[bobsag3]

I would be more than willing to help yall out with hosting if you can change the address, but from having read all this I think you would still be better off pursuing an expedient refund.

[OgNasty]

I was with the second Saturn Group Buy. If it shipped to me, I'd be willing to refund everyone else in the group buy.

[floatyfish]

I was with the second Saturn Group Buy. If it shipped to me, I'd be willing to refund everyone else in the group buy.

Unless somebody else in this group buy steps up to the plate, I think your option is the best one here. You have the name recognition and the required trust levels to refund everybody, and your mining operation would grow. This is a win-win situation.

[physalis]

Ya floaty, finally got through to JohnK today. We are now working with KnCMiner for the refunds. They said they can only refund the PayPal payments back to the original PayPal account, because PayPal is still in posession of the funds cause no delivery of product has been made yet.This is the worst case scenario for us cause Ragin's account is totally FUCKED and beyond frozen. So that'll lock up the funds indefinitely, leaving everybody on those machines with no refunds and no machines. I'm trying to explain to them the extenuating circumstances we are currently in and just trying to convince them to send the refunds to JohnK instead.

As for the machines paid for via BitPay payments, those can't be refunded back in BTC according to KnCMiner policy. So I'm now trying to convince them to reconsider their policy and to make an exception for this unique situation we are all stuck in right now.

I just wrote a long email to KnC, asking them to verify this story. Really interested in their answer.

- They can't refund to another paypal account "because Paypal is still in the possession of the funds"? What? That payment has been made, they got the payment already. That's how this whole preorder thing works. They couldn't have made ANY product if they wouldn't have the money already.

- They can't refund the BitPay payments, because of .... what exactly?? You say "those can't be refunded back in BTC according to KnCMiner policy". Yes, of course they can't be refunded IN BITCOIN, because BitPay is a service that takes bitcoin in one end and gives out dollars on the other! They never got a bitcoin payment! And they are not supposed to refund IN BITCOIN, they are supposed to refund IN DOLLARS! Just not to the paypal account that you say is locked. Where the hell would be the problem with that, huh?

[OgNasty]

Getting ahold of KNC seems like a great idea. Everyone's BTC could be recouped easily if these were resold on the secondary market. I'd be happy to handle this for more than just my GB if someone trustworthy was needed. Can we get KNC to respond here? Seems like there is enough orders at stake here to warrant an official response.

[counter]

I also think it's time all share holders contact KNC and let them know that there is a extreme probability this is a  scam and  if they send the order to the original address alot of people will have there miners/ funds robbed.

I think if enough people take the time to contact them before they ship and point there attention here in this thread they will have all the proof needed and reason to change the address of the order to whoever the group decides is best. My first vote goes to John K or another trusted member willing to step up.
 
Maybe we should ask that they hold the order until there is some clarification from the OP.  Prodigits is trying but I don't get the feeling he's getting anywhere with dealing with the OP, which tell me that this is a scam and we need to act if anything is going to be done.

The whole point of this group buy was transparency initially.  OP stated we all could come and check out the facility and ask all the questions in person we wanted.  Now looking back it's extremly hard to believe this is anything but a scam and I don't want to see people get taken for a ride due to someone being selfish, greedy or depressed.  I'm not that far from Conn and I'm getting to the point where I want make a house call and I can only have a share imagine how others must feel.

[peterlex]

I vote for someone else to assume de GB and get the fair comission.

I am in Jupiter2, I would also like a refund for $500.

[m_yaw]

I am all for getting a refund from KnC directly.
Maybe we could set up a letter/e-mail that many people would send to them? I am not qualified enough to do that, but I am sure there is someone who is...

[danieldaniel]

I am all for getting a refund from KnC directly.
Maybe we could set up a letter/e-mail that many people would send to them? I am not qualified enough to do that, but I am sure there is someone who is...

Spamming KNC is not a good idea...

[bowen151]

What else can they do though to try and get KNCs attention to this problem.

Any news on this fucking joke today.

Ragin where is our money, at least login and hand over the reigns over! You really couldnt be this useless, depressed is one thing but now your just fucking with us. We want our money back..... failing that we want you to relenquish control of this GB

I WANT MY MONEY BACK

[bowen151]

I want my refund.

You have stolen my money!!!

The majority of people in the KNC groupbuy want a refund or for you to step back from this shitheap you have created ragin! ... do the right thing and don't be a thief!!!

How can we expect you to relay dividends if you cant even keep the thread updated, can you tell me this?

You are not fit for this work, and I want a refund! Today!

[physalis]

Getting ahold of KNC seems like a great idea. Everyone's BTC could be recouped easily if these were resold on the secondary market. I'd be happy to handle this for more than just my GB if someone trustworthy was needed. Can we get KNC to respond here? Seems like there is enough orders at stake here to warrant an official response.

I would be very glad if we could handle it this way, I have no problem with you reselling the miners if you refund everybody.

Prodigits, that would by far be the easiest way. Just tell KnC to change the shipping address to OgNasty's.

Btw, it can't hurt if others try mailing KnC too. The more they hear from us, the sooner they'll answer.

Ask them about their refund policy and include in your email:

A) Link to this thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=233624.0
B) JohnK's screenshot of the orders (maybe they can match them on the date, even without order number): https://i.imgur.com/LE4BLIy.png
C) Link to prodigit's post with his claims on what they said about their refund policy: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=233624.msg3127215#msg3127215

By the way, I found this, where someone easily got a refund for their BitPay payment.

I payed for hosting in btc without having ordered a miner first. When I realized it I asked for a refund and they will pay back with USD (Bitpay).
I will inform when I see the money in my account. They are very professional and legit, I don't think there will be issues if asked for refund!

Yes I posted in the other thread, they refunded me 100%!

[physalis]

OK, got KnC reply:

Dear xxxx
 
Our refund policy is as follows:
 
·         Until we start shipping a customer may get a refund.
·         PayPal refunds can only be made to the PayPal account that paid the order (to avoid money laundry, PayPal policy)
·         BitPay refunds are made in USD.
 
We can?t disclose customer information.
 

Thanks,
Carl

So far, this (kind of) checks out with what prodigits said.
But BitPay refunds are very possible, just in USD, which is what I said from the start.
Just get the BitPay refund in USD to some other account (because those were not paid via any Paypal account), then buy BTC back on an exchange.
This is the only way this can be done, they will not send you BTC back because they never got any BTC.

But again, I think what we should do is just change the shipping address to OgNasty, like he proposed.
Then he will refund everybody with his BTC, and can make some nice profit on reselling the miners (then at least someone wins in this GB). Easiest and fastest solution.