[ANN] Bitfury ASIC sales in EU and Europe

[fractal02]

1. I don't set the price so please stop calling me greedy. You guys don't seem to realize what I've gone through to deliver you machines on time that made you ROI a long time ago.

I spent 246.79 btc on an Aug rig. You're insane if you think I've mined that much since then.

Please...cry me a river...

You ROI'ed in flat like a crazy...

Buying hardware with BTC is a non-sense now...buy directly BTC.

1 BTC is still 1 BTC

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[Syke]

Please...cry me a river...

You ROI'ed in flat like a crazy...

If you think that's true, then I have an investment for you.

Send me 100 BTC. When the exchange rate doubles, I'll give you 75 BTC. You have a guaranteed 50% profit in fiat. Interested? No? Why not?

[greaterninja]

1. I don't set the price so please stop calling me greedy. You guys don't seem to realize what I've gone through to deliver you machines on time that made you ROI a long time ago. I've worked my ass off since july to make this happen. It makes me sad that it's all so quickly forgotten due to the exact thing you're now accusing me of.

2. Before you start calling people greedy, think what would you do in Tytus's place. He has hardware than makes shitloads of money for him. Would you sell your miner even to your friend who really-really wants to start mining at the price you paid in september? All of you have made ROI with our hardware. Now you want MOAR. And you want even faster ROI and MOARMOARMOAR. There's a name for this kind of mentality

3. The primary reason why we don't have hardware to sell is the shortage of chips. Not too long ago people were complaining 15€ per chip is too expensive and that our hardware is too expensive. This sends a signal to manufacturer that there's no market for the product. This is why we didn't do large volume production, but only produced enough for Tytus's mine which is based on the new H-card, so no chips were left for old H-cards.

1.  I call it how I see it.  You guys are setting prices so they will never ROI in Bitcoins or it will take a very, very long time.   Prices on h-cards have been pumped up by over 232% for relatively the same performance.  The only other people who have tried this scheme are Avalon and Asicminer and they are now failing in the consumer market.    You say ROI in hardware has been made, this is only true in the sense of cash value, however its a negative loss in Bitcoins at the time.

2.   I look at Tytus's place, the view of greed seems to have increased.  Not long ago people were complaining your hardware was expensive, and yes...it still is.  You want to talk about us wishing we have more hardware...well yeah...DUH...we want more hardware...why would I buy 5 starter kits?  I was hoping to populate at least 1 kit.  I am willing to pay a fair price.  Right now paying 1 bitcoin  or 850 euros or $1162 USD tells me that you guys are being more greedy than us and frankly the rest of the asic hardware market.

3.  Excuses are like assholes, everyone has them and they all stink.  This applies to 1, 2, and 3..   I've offered to setup chip packaging services with sales representatives at my company.  Right now we are the #2 Chip packager in the world.   Buzzdave seemed interested, however Tytus said no.  Ignore help, quicker delivery and cost savings at your own peril.


4.    If you guys stay on this trend.  More and more people will start to share my sentiment.  Confidence in bitfury products will decrease.

[Micky25]

^ sorry, but this calculation is just totally wrong. You paid an equivalent of 16,000 € if I'm right. And you mined an equivalent of how much since August? 20,000 €?

No, I paid in bitcoins for a device that mines bitcoins. I did not pay in Euros, Dollars, Tulips, or any other form of currency. My ROI, in bitcoins, is a massive loss.

And this is punin's fault? Or yours? What could he have made different? What could you?

[spiccioli]

1. I don't set the price so please stop calling me greedy. You guys don't seem to realize what I've gone through to deliver you machines on time that made you ROI a long time ago.

I spent 246.79 btc on an Aug rig. You're insane if you think I've mined that much since then.

Please...cry me a river...

You ROI'ed in flat like a crazy...

Buying hardware with BTC is a non-sense now...buy directly BTC.

1 BTC is still 1 BTC

Guys,

when you buy a stock or a bond, do you use your own currency or a different one?

You're buying a BTC producing unit (a bond plus its interest) using BTCs even if you paid it in USD or EUR, because the same USD or EUR amount you spent on the unit could have been spent buying BTCs directly as much as you invest USD dollars on a bond which should give you more USD dollars than you spent for it in the beginning.

The only one which should be concerned with BTC's value expressed in his own currency is the one which builds the boards and has to pay for them in a currency which is not BTC.

One month ago they were able to manufacture such a board and sell it with a positive margin for 250 EUR, now they're asking, for the same board, 850 EUR, this is due to the fact that they (and those like fractal02) see BTCs as a quick scheme to get USD or EUR and so they're saying, well a board will produce half a coin in its life (a number just for the sake of discussion) and since a BTC will have a value of 1000 EUR one year from now let's ask for a fair share of its possible future value (which is what was said before: offloading the risk to the buyer).

Instead they should realize that difficulty is growing and as such each board will produce less and less BTCs and so its value (expressed in BTC OR USD OR EUR) should decrease or at least remain constant.

If BTC grows I'll be able to buy more units from them, increasing their revenue in their own currency and leaving me with some hope to be able to recoup my investment.

spiccioli

[Syke]

And this is punin's fault? Or yours? What could he have made different? What could you?

I was correcting his claim that I made a ton of money off it. I didn't, I lost of ton of money.

[rammy2k2]

guys, lets not start arguing, we wont go nowhere ...we all apreciate what punin done in the past, he dont set the prices, ok ... but STILL .. the ones who set the prices are damn greedy ... they set a price .. just to say .. "hey, we sell .. if u cant afford ... " .

 the actual price is made so we NOT buy .. because ROI in fiat or BTC is impossible, unless BTC will be like 1500 EUR or something ...

i myself have a starter kit, and ill start looking for other companies, even if i like punin a lot ...

[spiccioli]

^ sorry, but this calculation is just totally wrong. You paid an equivalent of 16,000 € if I'm right. And you mined an equivalent of how much since August? 20,000 €?

No, I paid in bitcoins for a device that mines bitcoins. I did not pay in Euros, Dollars, Tulips, or any other form of currency. My ROI, in bitcoins, is a massive loss.

And this is punin's fault? Or yours? What could he have made different? What could you?

Totally our fault, we, well let's speak just for me, I was not able to see BTC price at one of its low and difficulty growing so fast!

At the same time, please, don't come here telling us you're sooo sorry to have to sell us at 850 EUR something you were soo sorry to sell us at 250 one month before!!

You had a good margin at 250, so price it at 300? 350 since BTC grew in value and you want some more? Ok, nice, but at 850 a board is a sure loss for your customer and for you as well, since your customer will start buying from some other (less greedy?) manufacturer.

Fool me once...

spiccioli

[Syke]

guys, lets not start arguing, we wont go nowhere ...we all apreciate what punin done in the past, he dont set the prices, ok

I fully support Punin and any other manufacturer setting their prices as high as they want for any reason. I'll continue to purchase the best miners, which right now are the AntMiners. My Bitfury kits will remain half full.

But I do take issue with false claims like "made you ROI a long time ago". He could not be more wrong. It's not his fault, but it is a fact. He shouldn't distort the facts.

[rammy2k2]

guys, lets not start arguing, we wont go nowhere ...we all apreciate what punin done in the past, he dont set the prices, ok

I fully support Punin and any other manufacturer setting their prices as high as they want for any reason. I'll continue to purchase the best miners, which right now are the AntMiners. My Bitfury kits will remain half full.

But I do take issue with false claims like "made you ROI a long time ago". He could not be more wrong. It's not his fault, but it is a fact. He shouldn't distort the facts.

same here

[punin]

If you understand this and realize that hardware will ROI only, when btc price rises, then you must accept that this hardware is just stupid to buy. This is why punin's statement, that everyone got ROI is not accurate.

Those who bought our september-october units for ~6500€ are still making over 200€ per day in BTC. Please explain your math.

[punin]

1. I don't set the price so please stop calling me greedy. You guys don't seem to realize what I've gone through to deliver you machines on time that made you ROI a long time ago.

I spent 246.79 btc on an Aug rig. You're insane if you think I've mined that much since then.

Your sig says "buy and hold". Did you type that before or after you paid 246.79 BTC for an august rig?

[Trupik]

punin: I quickly searched for past few pages, but the word "greed" is not on any of them. So, we don't consider you greedy, or at least nobody is calling you that. So relax. I for one thank you for your past efforts and wish you the best in your future endeavors. I think that people are just sad that the ship of instant profit has sailed and will not return anytime soon.

It is very sad that Tytus, Punin and Buzzdave have become so greedy that we cannot populate our starter kits without significantly more financial contribution.

I'm sorry, I really did miss that. 

[xstr8guy]

Quick calculations says each board will ROI in 60 days.  Quit whining.

[capitalaccent]

Those who bought our september-october units for ~6500€ are still making over 200€ per day in BTC. Please explain your math.

It is possible to buy something now or not? Thanks.

[Syke]

Your sig says "buy and hold". Did you type that before or after you paid 246.79 BTC for an august rig?

After. I learned a very hard, painful lesson.

Are you interested in taking me up on my guaranteed 50% fiat profit offer?

[greaterninja]

Quick calculations says each board will ROI in 60 days.  Quit whining.

Yep well I got another antminer coming today.   3 more next week.

my roi says 31 or so days

[spiccioli]

Quick calculations says each board will ROI in 60 days.  Quit whining.

A single board, at 30 GHs, let's hope you don't receive an EOL or underperforming one, will break-even in BTC in six months or more, even using a favorable difficulty growth.

Since BTC went from 1030 to around 920 right now, you'll need even more.

spiccioli

[xstr8guy]

A fun fact!  In September, I was ordering H Boards from MBP for ~4BTC each.  Now an H Board costs ~1BTC.

For those who think ROI matters only if it's bitcoin for bitcoin, the price has gone DOWN by 3BTC.

HA!

[punin]

1. I don't set the price so please stop calling me greedy. You guys don't seem to realize what I've gone through to deliver you machines on time that made you ROI a long time ago. I've worked my ass off since july to make this happen. It makes me sad that it's all so quickly forgotten due to the exact thing you're now accusing me of.

2. Before you start calling people greedy, think what would you do in Tytus's place. He has hardware than makes shitloads of money for him. Would you sell your miner even to your friend who really-really wants to start mining at the price you paid in september? All of you have made ROI with our hardware. Now you want MOAR. And you want even faster ROI and MOARMOARMOAR. There's a name for this kind of mentality

3. The primary reason why we don't have hardware to sell is the shortage of chips. Not too long ago people were complaining 15€ per chip is too expensive and that our hardware is too expensive. This sends a signal to manufacturer that there's no market for the product. This is why we didn't do large volume production, but only produced enough for Tytus's mine which is based on the new H-card, so no chips were left for old H-cards.

1.  I call it how I see it.  You guys are setting prices so they will never ROI in Bitcoins or it will take a very, very long time.   Prices on h-cards have been pumped up by over 232% for relatively the same performance.  The only other people who have tried this scheme are Avalon and Asicminer and they are now failing in the consumer market.    You say ROI in hardware has been made, this is only true in the sense of cash value, however its a negative loss in Bitcoins at the time.

And I corrected you. This is not my hardware. These are not my chips. I cannot sell them for less than what I need to pay for them. People are sending me 100 e-mails per day asking for hardware so I pressured Tytus to release some of the units we were going to be using in the mine. I asked him what the price was and this was the number I got.

2.   I look at Tytus's place, the view of greed seems to have increased.  Not long ago people were complaining your hardware was expensive, and yes...it still is.  You want to talk about us wishing we have more hardware...well yeah...DUH...we want more hardware...why would I buy 5 starter kits?  I was hoping to populate at least 1 kit.  I am willing to pay a fair price.  Right now paying 1 bitcoin  or 850 euros or $1162 USD tells me that you guys are being more greedy than us and frankly the rest of the asic hardware market.

Again, stop saying "you guys". I'm not the one who sets the price. You're insulting me when you accuse me of this. Tytus has increased picostocks 100TH mine to 500TH, what do you think of that?

3.  Excuses are like assholes, everyone has them and they all stink.  This applies to 1, 2, and 3..   I've offered to setup chip packaging services with sales representatives at my company.  Right now we are the #2 Chip packager in the world.   Buzzdave seemed interested, however Tytus said no.  Ignore help, quicker delivery and cost savings at your own peril.

PM me about packaging.

4.    If you guys stay on this trend.  More and more people will start to share my sentiment.  Confidence in bitfury products will decrease.

I share your concern. This is not the way I wanted it to go either, but I'm not the boss and do not set the rules. Hopefully in the future I will have the possibility to offer BTC ROI guarantee on my products.