-

[||bit]

So how do dividends work now? Based on 100 mh/s per bond and 3 times original bond quantity?

There were some posts about increased hashrate earlier in the week. Is it confirmed we have more gear on line? How is this going to be handled vis a vis bond quantities / hashrate per bond and "dividends"?

Given that we are expecting our distribution today, it might be a good time to give an update.... maybe.

Yeah. But LR needs to very soon take that 3:1 to something closer to 23+:1 with the new hardware coming online.

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[BKM]

So how do dividends work now? Based on 100 mh/s per bond and 3 times original bond quantity?

There were some posts about increased hashrate earlier in the week. Is it confirmed we have more gear on line? How is this going to be handled vis a vis bond quantities / hashrate per bond and "dividends"?

Given that we are expecting our distribution today, it might be a good time to give an update.... maybe.

For me it looks like:

0.07351809 BTC on 254 "bonds"

or 0.07351809 on 762 "new bonds"

Last week I got 0.06527283 BTC on the same number of bonds..

Which is a 12.63% increase this week.. not the 20% quoted by LR, but likely there was a difficulty increase or bad pool luck..

OK - payment received thanks.... and nice to see the slight increase.... any updates worth sharing?

[||bit]

Would be nice to see the breakdown like we used to... don't see and legal reasons that stopped... we should get this EVERY payment.

Maybe LR/grnbrg should make a nice post to historically breakdown the payout history like LR used to for all the past weeks we do not have one from them directly.

I was thinking earlier today that there is probably a case to legally force disclosure of certain values. LR even claimed he wanted to be transparent before, but his fee's & purchases are still invisible. This is why it would be a good idea for him to eliminate his fee's from the 25% and instead create new bonds for himself so that he is bound to dividends as compensation along with the other investors. His lawyer, as he said, already made the point that he should not mix in his hardware with company hardware for reasons of conflict of interest. Seems to me that keeping his fee hidden (mixed in with hardware purchases & operational costs) would be in the same category as a conflict of interest.

If he isn't careful to do right to investors that funded the company, someone could use the legal system and turn it into a train wreck. LRM might then cease to exist and LR could end up broke. Hopefully, he does what's right. A good start would be to disclose receipt of new hardware. And to proportionately multiply bonds or increase hashrate per bond/contract as has been the case.

[mufa23]

Looks like BTC0.00028944 per old bond

[grnbrg]

I am taking advice of many folks and stopping answering any questions.  I'll poke my head in at least once a day or two to say "Still here" and that is all.  The next time you receive anything of substance it will be a full report on the subject which will take time to produce.

What he specified I can share is that there will be an announcement that will provide some clarification followed by a contract to be presented.  More info will come when it is available and no sooner.  It is the intention of LRM to provide further than 300MH/s per contract and is apparent that the way this will be done is legal.

I've poked Lab_Rat a bit, but he's sticking to his guns about not answering questions. I'm getting a good vibe from what little communication I've had from him, though.

I don't have any specifics to pass on, though.



grnbrg.

[int03h]

Let me see if I can help you guys figure a few things out :

A BOND is THIS : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bond_(finance)

A SHARE is THIS : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dividend

For those unable to follow links and in the simplest terms possible so that even the most retarded among you can follow along  :

A bond is a loan which pulls interest. It is a PROMISE to pay.
A share is a division of a company and pulls a share of the PROFITS usually called a DIVIDEND.

PICK one.

[elitenoob]

Let me see if I can help you guys figure a few things out :

A BOND is THIS : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bond_(finance)

A SHARE is THIS : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dividend

For those unable to follow links and in the simplest terms possible so that even the most retarded among you can follow along  :

A bond is a loan which pull interest. It is a PROMISE to pay.
A share is a division of a company and pulls a share of the PROFITS usually called a DIVIDEND.

PICK one.

I've poked Lab_Rat a bit, but he's sticking to his guns about not answering questions. I'm getting a good vibe from what little communication I've had from him, though.

I don't have any specifics to pass on, though.



grnbrg.

chill

[int03h]

chill

lol he doesn't know me very well - or has forgotten.

I am like a pack of vultures flying over the carcass of this cluster fuck. The words "I TOLD YOU SO" are dripping off my blood stained beaks.

EDIT : Infact .. don't pick one. IF he called them bonds AND gave you dividends.. it means you are both bond holders and share holders by implication of the terms he has used and the money paid. ROFL .. omfg ..

[elitenoob]

Whatever labrat wants to call them, as long as the dividends fits with the purchased equipment of its investors it is fine for me

[int03h]

Vince has a strain of tomato plants that his girl friend is in psychic contact with. . . .they tell many things

People who aren't prats, make friends, and get info.

Endlessa is by no means a prat and one I would consider a true friend. You on the other hand Vince .. are both a prat and not a friend. So your point is neither valid  nor appropriate.

[int03h]

Whatever labrat wants to call them, as long as the dividends fits with the purchased equipment of its investors it is fine for me

If this discussion has become to complicated for you to follow .. please feel free to opt for silence.

[mufa23]

Any updates today, Labrat?

[daemonfox]

Let me see if I can help you guys figure a few things out :

A BOND is THIS : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bond_(finance)

A SHARE is THIS : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dividend

For those unable to follow links and in the simplest terms possible so that even the most retarded among you can follow along  :

A bond is a loan which pulls interest. It is a PROMISE to pay.
A share is a division of a company and pulls a share of the PROFITS usually called a DIVIDEND.

PICK one.

By those short definitions... what we have here does not comply to either.

BOND - we did not LOAN this money to LRM and what he is paying us is in no way, shape of form a payment of principle + interest.

SHARE - what we are receiving as DIVIDENDS are not actually SHARES of the profit of LRM... I would actually say in whole... LRM is probably still in the red and a profit share would not be paid until at least the first entire year was over. Even then, we would still probably be in the red but maybe not... regardless profits would probably be somewhere near what we have already been paid to date at that one year mark.

So that leaves us where...? Awaiting LR and LRM to redefine exactly what it is we hold because what we are receiving is actual WEEKLY EARNINGS of a Data Processing firm. What is the more likely, but I dare say LR would NEVER allow this to be, is that we are all PARTNERS to some extent and have been promised a weekly payout on earnings after cost deductions. What that means to everyone and LRMs lawyers is probably what is taking so long to define in the eyes of the law.

[int03h]

Let me see if I can help you guys figure a few things out :

A BOND is THIS : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bond_(finance)

A SHARE is THIS : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dividend

For those unable to follow links and in the simplest terms possible so that even the most retarded among you can follow along  :

A bond is a loan which pulls interest. It is a PROMISE to pay.
A share is a division of a company and pulls a share of the PROFITS usually called a DIVIDEND.

PICK one.

By those short definitions... what we have here does not comply to either.

BOND - we did not LOAN this money to LRM and what he is paying us is in no way, shape of form a payment of principle + interest.

SHARE - what we are receiving as DIVIDENDS are not actually SHARES of the profit of LRM... I would actually say in whole... LRM is probably still in the red and a profit share would not be paid until at least the first entire year was over. Even then, we would still probably be in the red but maybe not... regardless profits would probably be somewhere near what we have already been paid to date at that one year mark.

So that leaves us where...? Awaiting LR and LRM to redefine exactly what it is we hold because what we are receiving is actual WEEKLY EARNINGS of a Data Processing firm. What is the more likely, but I dare say LR would NEVER allow this to be, is that we are all PARTNERS to some extent and have been promised a weekly payout on earnings after cost deductions. What that means to everyone and LRMs lawyers is probably what is taking so long to define in the eyes of the law.

^^ see that's how you take this forward.

to answer your questions .. I don't know. Asking LR/M is the appropriate place to start. Your lawyers may be the next most appropriate.

I most certainly would not stand cock in hand waiting for him to find loop holes.

And .. note : I did not call for a witchhunt. ( despite my preference for this )  .. some basic information is all that is required.

A statement of accounts for one.

[Endlessa]

Let me see if I can help you guys figure a few things out :

A BOND is THIS : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bond_(finance)

A SHARE is THIS : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dividend

For those unable to follow links and in the simplest terms possible so that even the most retarded among you can follow along  :

A bond is a loan which pull interest. It is a PROMISE to pay.
A share is a division of a company and pulls a share of the PROFITS usually called a DIVIDEND.

PICK one.

I've poked Lab_Rat a bit, but he's sticking to his guns about not answering questions. I'm getting a good vibe from what little communication I've had from him, though.

I don't have any specifics to pass on, though.



grnbrg.

since the whole thing was called an "IPO" multiple times, it sounds a lot more like shares than bonds.  Lacking a palatable solution, I'll let people in charge of such things figure out wtf. 

I do have a hard time believing that a lawyer wrote any of this copy, though.

Vince has a strain of tomato plants that his girl friend is in psychic contact with. . . .they tell many things

People who aren't prats, make friends, and get info.

Endlessa is by no means a prat and one I would consider a true friend. You on the other hand Vince .. are both a prat and not a friend. So your point is neither valid  nor appropriate.

Vince is a full asshat, imo. I don't take anything from him serious or with any level of caring. I've accept that since he started talking about my panties and bathroom habits and discovered his big contribution to the internet was selling other peoples information as "leads" to companies. . . that's almost below a spammer as far as I'm concerned.  Anyhow, it's hard to take such people seriously either way.

......

been afk a couple days.  looks like still not information after 1 and a half months.  I'll be forming the documentation and a formal complaint (unless of something changes of course).  I imagine it will take a few days to pull together all the information, after that I'll just let people with actual power sort it out.

[bobfranklin]

someone has told me to sue labrat if labrat don't change his idea to nakedly rob shareholders' bitcoins in a week, I accept to donate to sue hime. Who can help us to sue, as I am not a American.
I believe we can win and put him in jail.

Considering if I was him I'd use LRM holdings to fight a lawsuit against LRM then I'd say you've definitely got nothing but contempt from me.

[runam0k]

So that leaves us where...?

Doesn't it leaves us with a contract for a percentage of BTC mined, with terms relating to costs, expenses, reinvestment and whatnot?

[daemonfox]

So that leaves us where...?

Doesn't it leaves us with a contract for a percentage of BTC mined, with terms relating to costs, expenses, reinvestment and whatnot?

EXACTLY! Glad someone else picked up on that, since I was purposefully going for the "not gonna spell it out for you" tense.

As LR already stated, these are contracts for a given amount of services from a Data Processing firm... and legally, I think that makes the mining portion of what we hold impossible to be a percentage and must be a fixed rate.

Now, what that means for our "contracts" is that we own TWO things... A PARTNER/OWNER CONTRACT (singular) that guarantees us the right to multiple MINING SUBCONTRACTS at the value of 100 MH/s and that as hardware is purchased with our investment funds in LRM, the moment those machines go online, each of our PARTNER/OWNER contracts is awarded an increasing number of subcontracts to match the hashrate to 100 MH/s contract ratio of those machines.

Getting that into legalese AND have the whole thing fit within coming laws and regulations is going to take time... getting your panties in a bunch (love you Endlessa so not aimed at you lol) and threatening to lawyer up is premature. Promising to get your ducks in a row, start documentation and setting certain actions and people in to motion on the other hand is completely warranted. Starting a lawsuit now is like asking LRM to empty the funds WE provided into a lawyers pocket for no good reason, while doing your due diligence to prepare should such action be needed is definitely something we should all do.

[maqifrnswa]

So that leaves us where...?

Doesn't it leaves us with a contract for a percentage of BTC mined, with terms relating to costs, expenses, reinvestment and whatnot?

Now, what that means for our "contracts" is that we own TWO things... A PARTNER/OWNER CONTRACT (singular) that guarantees us the right to multiple MINING SUBCONTRACTS at the value of 100 MH/s and that as hardware is purchased with our investment funds in LRM, the moment those machines go online, each of our PARTNER/OWNER contracts is awarded an increasing number of subcontracts to match the hashrate to 100 MH/s contract ratio of those machines.

I think this is where it is going. I'd personally like to see market forces control hashrate increase. If LR controls how many shares you get every time hardware arrives, then fees, expenses, and cost of purchase will still all be invisible to investors and make the contracts impossible to value accurately. If contracts are worth 100 MH/s, and LR is forced to sell new hashrate increases at market rates (i.e., reinvestment occurs in public, not behind the scenes), LRM is much more likely to survive long term and not burn through cash with inefficient purchases. I outlined a few pages back two ways it can be underwritten: one way LRM assumes all risk and reward, the other is sharing risk and reward (underwriting of hardware) amongst interested investors.

[||bit]

Let me see if I can help you guys figure a few things out :

A BOND is THIS : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bond_(finance)

A SHARE is THIS : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dividend

For those unable to follow links and in the simplest terms possible so that even the most retarded among you can follow along  :

A bond is a loan which pulls interest. It is a PROMISE to pay.
A share is a division of a company and pulls a share of the PROFITS usually called a DIVIDEND.

PICK one.

By those short definitions... what we have here does not comply to either.

BOND - we did not LOAN this money to LRM and what he is paying us is in no way, shape of form a payment of principle + interest.

SHARE - what we are receiving as DIVIDENDS are not actually SHARES of the profit of LRM... I would actually say in whole... LRM is probably still in the red and a profit share would not be paid until at least the first entire year was over. Even then, we would still probably be in the red but maybe not... regardless profits would probably be somewhere near what we have already been paid to date at that one year mark.

So that leaves us where...? Awaiting LR and LRM to redefine exactly what it is we hold because what we are receiving is actual WEEKLY EARNINGS of a Data Processing firm. What is the more likely, but I dare say LR would NEVER allow this to be, is that we are all PARTNERS to some extent and have been promised a weekly payout on earnings after cost deductions. What that means to everyone and LRMs lawyers is probably what is taking so long to define in the eyes of the law.

There was a comment made by LR early in all this where he compared it to a group purchase more than a bond or share. Sad thing it that we are even discussing this now - many disillusioned investors - but the ambiguity might end up working in favor of investors if it comes down to a legal case.