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[VinceSamios]

I am still confused on why ANYTHING was said at all... LR could have waited until the "lawyers" cleared his communications with the bond holders... Still seems very fishy... With only the information presented from LR, I can't/don't buy it at all.  

Sometimes you have to just kill all the rats and then patch up the holes later.

ie. If there is an immediate legal threat, remove it, then fix the resulting less critical problems as quickly as possible.

[1714491439]

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[VinceSamios]

I'm here to answer the questions I can so feel free to ask.

The issues at hand are both on a state and federal level regarding multiple topics.  The specifics of these statutes will be presented in a timely manner.

I have not done any work for CoinSeed in weeks and don't believe I will have a major if any further involvement in CoinSeed.  This is yet to be determined by Merlin Kauffman.

The newly issued contracts price will be changed.

something more than a 1 liner on that not so insignificant piece of news would be nice as well.

While you're at it, tell us all about your private life and family as well... because you know, we are shareholders, and we demand everything.

[Endlessa]

I'm here to answer the questions I can so feel free to ask.

The issues at hand are both on a state and federal level regarding multiple topics.  The specifics of these statutes will be presented in a timely manner.

I have not done any work for CoinSeed in weeks and don't believe I will have a major if any further involvement in CoinSeed.  This is yet to be determined by Merlin Kauffman.

The newly issued contracts price will be changed.

something more than a 1 liner on that not so insignificant piece of news would be nice as well.

While you're at it, tell us all about your private life and family as well... because you know, we are shareholders, and we demand everything.

yay! yet another complete lack of contributing worth while information.  You're on a roll man. 

These are reasonable questions considering the amount of money being held and loss of value.

P.S. I still have a pair of panties set aside for you, since you seem so interested in them, troll.

[bittymitty]

The consensus from bond holders is that Lab Rat is acting like a scammer.

This is no-ones fault other than Lab rats.

Please read http://www.coindesk.com/us-securities-regulator-finra-warns-bitcoins-investment-risks/

"The regulatory body ended the release by encouraging those who have been defrauded by a securities professional or firm to file a complaint with its representatives or to contact its support lines with tips and information."

Any further shenanigans from Lab Rat and I will be reporting him.

This is his final warning.

[tempestb]

I don't think anyone here should lawyer up, report anything or do anything legally until something at least happens that actually defrauds you.  Since the new hardware has not gone online yet, the most that has happened is everyone has gained an increase in hashing power from I believe 280mh to 300mh.

It's primarily about next steps beyond that, which we're all waiting to hear about.  In the short term, everyone needs to chill out and wait to hear what is going to happen.

[mmmerlin]

I don't think anyone here should lawyer up, report anything or do anything legally until something at least happens that actually defrauds you.  Since the new hardware has not gone online yet, the most that has happened is everyone has gained an increase in hashing power from I believe 280mh to 300mh.

It's primarily about next steps beyond that, which we're all waiting to hear about.  In the short term, everyone needs to chill out and wait to hear what is going to happen.

This is a valid and important point. As of yet, nothing has actually happened apart from some news worrying (and riling) people.

Since consensus is that nobody cares what happens with respect to the bond/contract terminology or splits etc, (so long as the spirit of the original agreement is honoured), it is all about how future hardware deployment is passed on to current bondholders. That is the issue at hand. Until action is taken in this regard, as opposed to words, people have no cause for grievance. Annoyance yes, but not actual grievance. Once action is taken, then we can re-examine how things stand - until then, let's all try to just relax and provide useful, constructive feedback to try to make the best of a bad situation.

[Endlessa]

I don't think anyone here should lawyer up, report anything or do anything legally until something at least happens that actually defrauds you.  Since the new hardware has not gone online yet, the most that has happened is everyone has gained an increase in hashing power from I believe 280mh to 300mh.

It's primarily about next steps beyond that, which we're all waiting to hear about.  In the short term, everyone needs to chill out and wait to hear what is going to happen.

This is a valid and important point. As of yet, nothing has actually happened apart from some news worrying (and riling) people.

Since consensus is that nobody cares what happens with respect to the bond/contract terminology or splits etc, (so long as the spirit of the original agreement is honoured), it is all about how future hardware deployment is passed on to current bondholders. That is the issue at hand. Until action is taken in this regard, as opposed to words, people have no cause for grievance. Annoyance yes, but not actual grievance. Once action is taken, then we can re-examine how things stand - until then, let's all try to just relax and provide useful, constructive feedback to try to make the best of a bad situation.

while I agree with this from one perspective.  By changing the asset from a future growth asset to a fixed asset, it has devalued the asset to the tune of a penny on the dollar.  None of us would have paid the price we did, if this asset had been fixed to the numbers we just received for all time.  We do know that "something else" is going to happen and it has been declared "very very good".  I don't mind losing value because the future growth under performed, but not through arbitrary price fixing (i.e. hashrate is fixed, now the asset is fixed value on a declining scale over time).

I can't agree that no value was removed and we're all where we were a couple weeks ago, so move along.  There has been harm done to this asset, if you don't agree, go take a look at the trading thread.

All that said, I am still waiting for answers, but will not idly sit by because I trust someone else has my best interests in mind.  There are time limits to everyone's patience.

My opinion only, but it will govern my actions.

[rangerbob21]

I am still confused on why ANYTHING was said at all... LR could have waited until the "lawyers" cleared his communications with the bond holders... Still seems very fishy... With only the information presented from LR, I can't/don't buy it at all.  

Sometimes you have to just kill all the rats and then patch up the holes later.

ie. If there is an immediate legal threat, remove it, then fix the resulting less critical problems as quickly as possible.

I like what you did here...

[mmmerlin]

I don't think anyone here should lawyer up, report anything or do anything legally until something at least happens that actually defrauds you.  Since the new hardware has not gone online yet, the most that has happened is everyone has gained an increase in hashing power from I believe 280mh to 300mh.

It's primarily about next steps beyond that, which we're all waiting to hear about.  In the short term, everyone needs to chill out and wait to hear what is going to happen.

This is a valid and important point. As of yet, nothing has actually happened apart from some news worrying (and riling) people.

Since consensus is that nobody cares what happens with respect to the bond/contract terminology or splits etc, (so long as the spirit of the original agreement is honoured), it is all about how future hardware deployment is passed on to current bondholders. That is the issue at hand. Until action is taken in this regard, as opposed to words, people have no cause for grievance. Annoyance yes, but not actual grievance. Once action is taken, then we can re-examine how things stand - until then, let's all try to just relax and provide useful, constructive feedback to try to make the best of a bad situation.

while I agree with this from one perspective.  By changing the asset from a future growth asset to a fixed asset, it has devalued the asset to the tune of a penny on the dollar.  None of us would have paid the price we did, if this asset had been fixed to the numbers we just received for all time.  We do know that "something else" is going to happen and it has been declared "very very good".  I don't mind losing value because the future growth under performed, but not through arbitrary price fixing (i.e. hashrate is fixed, now the asset is fixed value on a declining scale over time).

I can't agree that no value was removed and we're all where we were a couple weeks ago, so move along.  There has been harm done to this asset, if you don't agree, go take a look at the trading thread.

All that said, I am still waiting for answers, but will not idly sit by because I trust someone else has my best interests in mind.  There are time limits to everyone's patience.

My opinion only, but it will govern my actions.

Yes, that is exactly my point - see the part in bold. Of course a permanent fix of all bonds with no future splitting would be a disaster, nobody is questioning that. However, until we hear about how future hashrate increases will be passed on to bondholders, there has essentially been no news. People are shitting the bed, yes, but there has not been any actual news.

Regarding bond prices, yes, value has dropped. However, if the news comes that everything is just as it was, then the bond price should return to exactly what it was before. If it doesn't then there is a buying opportunity. As I (and many others) have said before, it all comes down to what happens with future hashrate (obviously).

[Endlessa]

I don't think anyone here should lawyer up, report anything or do anything legally until something at least happens that actually defrauds you.  Since the new hardware has not gone online yet, the most that has happened is everyone has gained an increase in hashing power from I believe 280mh to 300mh.

It's primarily about next steps beyond that, which we're all waiting to hear about.  In the short term, everyone needs to chill out and wait to hear what is going to happen.

This is a valid and important point. As of yet, nothing has actually happened apart from some news worrying (and riling) people.

Since consensus is that nobody cares what happens with respect to the bond/contract terminology or splits etc, (so long as the spirit of the original agreement is honoured), it is all about how future hardware deployment is passed on to current bondholders. That is the issue at hand. Until action is taken in this regard, as opposed to words, people have no cause for grievance. Annoyance yes, but not actual grievance. Once action is taken, then we can re-examine how things stand - until then, let's all try to just relax and provide useful, constructive feedback to try to make the best of a bad situation.

while I agree with this from one perspective.  By changing the asset from a future growth asset to a fixed asset, it has devalued the asset to the tune of a penny on the dollar.  None of us would have paid the price we did, if this asset had been fixed to the numbers we just received for all time.  We do know that "something else" is going to happen and it has been declared "very very good".  I don't mind losing value because the future growth under performed, but not through arbitrary price fixing (i.e. hashrate is fixed, now the asset is fixed value on a declining scale over time).

I can't agree that no value was removed and we're all where we were a couple weeks ago, so move along.  There has been harm done to this asset, if you don't agree, go take a look at the trading thread.

All that said, I am still waiting for answers, but will not idly sit by because I trust someone else has my best interests in mind.  There are time limits to everyone's patience.

My opinion only, but it will govern my actions.

Yes, that is exactly my point - see the part in bold. Of course a permanent fix of all bonds with no future splitting would be a disaster, nobody is questioning that. However, until we hear about how future hashrate increases will be passed on to bondholders, there has essentially been no news. People are shitting the bed, yes, but there has not been any actual news.

Regarding bond prices, yes, value has dropped. However, if the news comes that everything is just as it was, then the bond price should return to exactly what it was before. If it doesn't then there is a buying opportunity. As I (and many others) have said before, it all comes down to what happens with future hashrate (obviously).

Yep, not disagreeing at all with you.  Except that last part has a lot of assumption, until we know exactly what the solution is.  As it stands right now we have a solution that is unacceptable, and a vague statement that stuff will be happening soon.   My only point here is that there were a lot of half statements made, that left a lot of unanswered questions.  Labrat's acknowledgement that this has been known to him for 2-3 months and recent 1 month absence from meaningful dialog, puts me in a position that I'm not going to wait another month to find out what the real situation is.  Since he's playing this game with other people's money, it is at least reasonable to request some questions be answered.   Assuming that he's going do something responsible to my interests, after the month long absence and dropping a half ass, imo, solution on us, is not reasonable.  Especially, after the previous announcement, which was almost the antithesis of this one, left a lot of questions that were suppose to be answered and never were.  After the last two months, I'm unwilling to sit here for an indefinite amount of time and hope.  And, in fairness, Labrat should be aware of this, so as not to be blindsided when people start losing patience and taking action.

I've already expressed I'm willing to wait to the end of the week.  Other people have other thresholds.  They are being honest about it.  He should take it into account.  People should always do what makes them feel most comfortable in an investment situation. 

Again, this is my opinion, have yours. ty for the meaningful discussion.   *looking at you Vince*

[Endlessa]

I could get behind that, especially if  we could see the blockchain activity from mining.  we would know exactly what was happening.

Some questions that would be nice to have answered concerning Due Diligence LR performed on executing the old bonds/contracts/mining shares (whatever we want to call them now) and the change to new ones:

• What is the problem?
• Did this problem suddenly happen? (I assume no, since you said you've been working on this for 2-3 months)
• If not, why are we addressing it right now with partial solution?
• Why didn't we address this earlier?
• Why didn't we discuss the problem prior to taking action?
• Can we have a copy of what the lawyers had to say on the issue and the solution?
• What agency is exerting pressure on LRM, if any?
• Why tell us the purchase of new hardware was going to give us 2 gh/s per share, if you already knew there were problems with the shares being legal?
• Why sell more shares, if you already knew about this?

bump

[contactmike1]

I could get behind that, especially if  we could see the blockchain activity from mining.  we would know exactly what was happening.

Some questions that would be nice to have answered concerning Due Diligence LR performed on executing the old bonds/contracts/mining shares (whatever we want to call them now) and the change to new ones:

• What is the problem?
• Did this problem suddenly happen? (I assume no, since you said you've been working on this for 2-3 months)
• If not, why are we addressing it right now with partial solution?
• Why didn't we address this earlier?
• Why didn't we discuss the problem prior to taking action?
• Can we have a copy of what the lawyers had to say on the issue and the solution?
• What agency is exerting pressure on LRM, if any?
• Why tell us the purchase of new hardware was going to give us 2 gh/s per share, if you already knew there were problems with the shares being legal?
• Why sell more shares, if you already knew about this?

bump

While purely speculation, I'd say some state(s) sent labrat some nastygram(s) which required immediate restructuring of the offering to stay on the right side of the law.  I'd suspect labrat will be fairly quiet until the final resolution is done.  For example, how can he promise you anything if he doesn't know what the end result will be yet?  Same goes for the new hardware.  When this is all over, I wouldn't be surprised if we get a "Oh by the way, the new hardware arrived and has been mining for a month.  He's a back payment of 300 coins!"  The "fixed" thing is just to make the suits happy.  At the end of the day, labrat will figure out how to ensure we still get the same value while keeping all the suits happy.  

[Endlessa]

While purely speculation, I'd say some state(s) sent labrat some nastygram(s) which required immediately restructuring of the offering to stay on the right side of the law.  I'd suspect labrat will be fairly quiet until the final resolution is done.  For example, how can he promise you anything if he doesn't know what the end result will be yet?  Same goes for the new hardware.  When this is all over, I wouldn't be surprised if we get a "Oh by the way, the new hardware arrived and has been mining for a month.  He's a back payment of 300 coins!"  The "fixed" thing is just to make the suits happy.  At the end of the day, labrat will figure out how to ensure we still get the same value while keeping all the suits happy.  

And you could very well be somewhere close to reality.  I'd rather deal with what is known.  

On an aside, none of those questions  ask for him to promise anything.  They are meant to re-establish trust that LR is properly considering, and has reasonable awareness about, the situation and the decisions he's made on the solution he announced.  It's just due diligence within business, not some wild concept.

Edit: also the assertion that this happened suddenly doesn't align with his previous statements, though it is admittedly possible.  Another reason for clarification.

[bittymitty]

Lets be absolutely clear about this.

Lab Rats own actions will define if he goes to jail or not.

I have no interest recovering lost funds.  If he is a fraudster he will pay with his time and his sphincter.

If he is not a fraudster then he has nothing to worry about.

Lab Rats peers are sam noi from lab coin and Ken from active mining.  Both of these scams are being investigated and jail awaits them.

I like others had full faith in Lab Rat from the beginning.  Slowly over time that faith was eroded by bad communication and suspicious actions.

Only Lab rat can restore this faith and I eagerly await his next move. 

[bittymitty]

Just in case Lab Rat is unsure how bond holders feel about his actions to date.

Lets have a vote:

+1 if you believe Lab Rat is doing a good job
-1 if you believe Lab Rat has done a bad job

-1

[daemonfox]

Just in case Lab Rat is unsure how bond holders feel about his actions to date.

Lets have a vote:

+1 if you believe Lab Rat is doing a good job
-1 if you believe Lab Rat has done a bad job

-1

If only I could live in your Black & White world...

PI/4 is my response... Zach COULD BE doing a BETTER job... he will receive a -1 if the final answer on how incoming hashrate is handled is not satisfactory.

[elitenoob]

Just in case Lab Rat is unsure how bond holders feel about his actions to date.

Lets have a vote:

+1 if you believe Lab Rat is doing a good job
-1 if you believe Lab Rat has done a bad job

-1

+1 for no spam, thx

[xuyongpku]

Just in case Lab Rat is unsure how bond holders feel about his actions to date.

Lets have a vote:

+1 if you believe Lab Rat is doing a good job
-1 if you believe Lab Rat has done a bad job

-1

-1

[GuardMoony]

If you want to vote go create a poll pls....


As of this "unknown problem", Labrat is doing he's best since the early order at BFL. He has always tried to find the best solution in any problem. And that's why he's still got this running.
Many others would have closed down and did close down after the bond exchange setback. Yet Labrat found a way to keep it going. For me these are temporally setbacks and a solution will be provided in good time.

In Short:
From what i gathered over the years about Labrat, He got more to lose then most of us combined. So he will find a way.

For those with no faith. Just sell your bonds and take your loss. You should always know everything in BTC is a risk.

[Endlessa]

If you want to vote go create a poll pls....


As of this "unknown problem", Labrat is doing he's best since the early order at BFL. He has always tried to find the best solution in any problem. And that's why he's still got this running.
Many others would have closed down and did close down after the bond exchange setback. Yet Labrat found a way to keep it going. For me these are temporally setbacks and a solution will be provided in good time.

In Short:
From what i gathered over the years about Labrat, He got more to lose then most of us combined. So he will find a way.

For those with no faith. Just sell your bonds and take your loss. You should always know everything in BTC is a risk.

Agree on the poll, please don't spam the thread with voting.

"Many" did not close down because of the share exchange shuttering.  Keeping the doors open is the minimum requirement for business not a bragging point.  We've been told that a method to trade shares was in the works since the exchanged closed.  That has not happened.

Your extensive "multi-year" research project on the character Labrat and his business prowess is conjecture.  Many people go into business thinking they can manage a situation, only to find the situation has more business complexity than they realized.  I'm not saying this is the case.  I'm saying we need some due diligence here ascertain what's going on with the company.  With last months silence and the recent silence, it's impossible to say exactly what state the company is in, where we are headed, and why we are going there.

Business is not about "faith".  Business is fact.  Business is managed.  Business is accountable (in both senses of that word).  I do not need faith, I need some facts and a complete picture, which has been missing quite some time now.

Selling my bonds? lol, we can't they are utterly worthless right now.  have you been to the trading thread? I tell you what, since you have so much faith, why don't you put your money where your mouth is and supply the exit strategy?  buy bonds for .03 each (post x3 split), we will leave the forums happy, take the loss and you can know your faith has been rewarded.  I personally wouldn't be handing out investment advice on here, unless you're willing to back it.

Everyone with a stake in this has a right to an opinion, but I will refute and discuss it, as that's the nature of forums.