-

[countduckula]

According to his posts, last update, Feb 9,

Dividends Update:

Mined: BTC34.04630076
Payout: BTC25.53472557
Per Bond: BTC0.00043432


There were 3 individuals who paid back the overpay amount after their dividends were held.  The amount they were supposed to receive last week was rolled into this to ensure they were paid the proper amount.

Next week the dividends will be paid out on Monday 2/17.

As you can see, 75% paid, 25% fees.

[1714469038]

1714469038

[Endlessa]

According to his posts, last update, Feb 9,

Dividends Update:

Mined: BTC34.04630076
Payout: BTC25.53472557
Per Bond: BTC0.00043432


There were 3 individuals who paid back the overpay amount after their dividends were held.  The amount they were supposed to receive last week was rolled into this to ensure they were paid the proper amount.

Next week the dividends will be paid out on Monday 2/17.

As you can see, 75% paid, 25% fees.

I know he's taking 25% I meant I thought he was suppose to be taking 5%/5%, but I got that from

This idea states that (and my contract allows for) LRM to mine for 2 full weeks with new hardware without paying dividends from it.  What I would do if the public will generally agree to this is use this hardware to mine and scoop up a large sum of BTC.  ~5% would be necessary for power consumption and ~5% would be requested as a management fee for setting up hundreds and hundreds of h-cards and getting everything mining in a very speedy manner.  The other 90% would go straight into the hardware that Dave can give me a killer deal on.

that appears to have just been temporary for deploying the hardware he got from dave.

I actually don't see anywhere that he states what his cut is, so I suppose he can actually just take wtf ever he feels like

[VinceSamios]

According to his posts, last update, Feb 9,

Dividends Update:

Mined: BTC34.04630076
Payout: BTC25.53472557
Per Bond: BTC0.00043432


There were 3 individuals who paid back the overpay amount after their dividends were held.  The amount they were supposed to receive last week was rolled into this to ensure they were paid the proper amount.

Next week the dividends will be paid out on Monday 2/17.

As you can see, 75% paid, 25% fees.

I know he's taking 25% I meant I thought he was suppose to be taking 5%/5%, but I got that from

This idea states that (and my contract allows for) LRM to mine for 2 full weeks with new hardware without paying dividends from it.  What I would do if the public will generally agree to this is use this hardware to mine and scoop up a large sum of BTC.  ~5% would be necessary for power consumption and ~5% would be requested as a management fee for setting up hundreds and hundreds of h-cards and getting everything mining in a very speedy manner.  The other 90% would go straight into the hardware that Dave can give me a killer deal on.

that appears to have just been temporary for deploying the hardware he got from dave.

I actually don't see anywhere that he states what his cut is, so I suppose he can actually just take wtf ever he feels like

It was always 25% - briefly no dividends were paid to buy extra hardware.

[ksenter]

It was always 25% - briefly no dividends were paid to buy extra hardware.
[/quote]

Correct.  However I'm wondering if this might be part of the problem.  Maybe someone took a look at his books and said, "it looks like you're supposed to be paying out 75 percent according to your initial terms, but that doesn't seem to always be the case", labrat: "oh that, I kept some of it to buy more hardware.  Several of the bondholders said it was ok in an anonymous forum.  Is that alright?"

Ha ha. 

But seriously what a cluster this whole thing has turned out to be.  Weeks upon weeks of silence, followed by bombshells, followed by immediate silence on questions about the bombshell, and then repeat, until all of the bondholders have ulcers.

[pixl8tr]

But seriously what a cluster this whole thing has turned out to be.  Weeks upon weeks of silence, followed by bombshells, followed by immediate silence on questions about the bombshell, and then repeat, until all of the bondholders have ulcers.

Yeah, should of kept my BTC.   a 5.5BTC  paid on 50BTC  of bonds.  Looks like a losing deal now with this bombshell.   Something is wrong with this picture.

[DemocraticRepublicOfDave]

Hi All,

Well this certainly is a development.  Perhaps it is time so summarize what has happened and where we are :

January 2014

- Lab_Rat appointed CTO of CoinSeed - http://www.coindesk.com/coinseed-5m-investment-bitfury-mining/
- A share trading "platform" for LabRatMining is in the works.
- Jan 30th Predictions for hashrate :

...
58792 currently outstanding bonds. With an expected hashrate of:

25-30TH in the next week or so (318.915-382.703 MH/s per bond)
50-55TH in the next month (637.842-701.626 MH/s per bond)
205-215TH beginning of March (some of this could get sent a little early  ) (2.615-2.743 GH/s per bond)

These are estimates and are in no way binding if off by a small amount.  Certain factors could change these projections.
...

February 2014

...

These will see a slight increase this week despite the upcoming diff increase hopefully as I'm adding more hardware.

The coming weeks will be on the low side as is expected, but with an immenent ~180TH by the first or second week of March this will change rather abruptly.

...

8th March 2014

The announcement :

CHANGE IN PAYOUT RATE STRUCTURE

Cryptocurrencies, which includes Bitcoin, are relatively new to the world economic communities and its governments. Worldwide there continues to be almost daily announcements from governments regarding crypto currencies. Lab Rat Data Processing, a Limited Liability Company in the state of New Jersey, continues to monitor those announcements and the ever-changing laws and economic environments and how those laws impact cryptocurrencies, including Bitcoin, and in particular Lab Rat Data Processing. Most important to Lab Rat Data Processing are the ever-changing laws and/or announcements from the United States and its governmental agencies and the state of New Jersey and its governmental agencies.

Based upon recent developments in US and local laws, Lab Rat Data Processing, and their legal representatives, have determined a potential current or future problem with its current rate structure, which was originally intended as a variable rate payout. Therefore, Lab Rat Data Processing is amending its variable rate payout with a set rate payout of 100 MH/s per contract. This rate payout shall be for all current contract-holders and all future contract-holders.  Contemporaneous with the change from a varying rate payout to a set rate payout Lab_Rat will triple the amount of contracts held by all contract holders as of the date of March 8, 2014.  Therefore, for all current contract holders on their current contracts, the effective rate will be permanently set at 300 MH/s per contract.  All future contracts purchased will be at the new rate of 100MH/s.

Lab Rat Data Processing will continue to monitor developments for cryptocurrencies and Bitcoin in particular, seeking to maintain its current status as a leader in the Bitcoin community and to maintain compliance with US and New Jersey laws.

More information to come.

Also a recent post suggesting a fix is in the works :

...
They have been called mining contracts by me from the beginning or "Perpetual Mining Bonds" which are what the community called them which is why I called them "bonds" since the beginning and stated in the original contract these are not traditional bonds and are non-callable.

I was out today, but tomorrow is a full day I will be speaking with my lawyer, as well as the other legal advisers who had input on this matter.  None of which see anything LRM to be working with to be an SEC or FinCEN issue if the transition is made, which is why I made this choice.  How to handle the specifics of the payout moving forward is being worked on.

Also most interestingly, something I haven't seen discussed:

I'm here to answer the questions I can so feel free to ask.

The issues at hand are both on a state and federal level regarding multiple topics.  The specifics of these statutes will be presented in a timely manner.

I have not done any work for CoinSeed in weeks and don't believe I will have a major if any further involvement in CoinSeed.  This is yet to be determined by Merlin Kauffman.

The newly issued contracts price will be changed.

So where are we now (March 8th):

Legal:
- There is a US legal issue that is powerful enough to require a modification of the shareholder/bondholder/contract. 
- The legal issue is as yet unspecified - Lab Rat is continuing to talk with his legal people and will update once more information is available. 
- This issue is powerful enough to trump the contract which was originally setout and used when doing the initial "IPO".  For "powerful" = potential jailtime or $$$$$$ in fines (based upon my personal experience with dealing with the US).
- Our "contracts" are muliplied x3 = Old contract = 100Mhs per contract, new contracts = 300Mhs - LabRat is checking with lawyers but is confident this solves the immediate legal issue.
- LabRat is now working with lawyers to create a framework where additional Mhs can be added per contract/shareholder without violating US law.

Operational:
- Judging from the payouts no new hardware is in since a small increase (judging from payouts per share) mid February.
- BFL Monarchs are delayed, LabRat is currently considering the refund option, but no decision yet.
- LabRat's CoinSeed interest is now taking a back seat.
- A share trading "platform" is in the works and at alpha stage.

What we know:
- LabRat is behind schedule deploying (or using) new hardware as per January plan.
- LabRat is attempting to restructure the contract arrangements to comply with US law.
- LabRat is not good at keeping "contract" holders in the loop.

Top issues/questions (IMO) that need to be answered urgently:
- An Update on hardware deployment, schedule, etc
- Details of plan B (if legal issues cannot be resolved)? i.e. dissolving the company, disposing of assets, "contract" buyback, etc?
- Details of plan A - If legal issues can be resolved, how will additional hardware be added to a "contract"?
- Is LabRat still CTO at CoinSeed?
- Has there been a change of relationship between LabRat Mining and CoinSeed which will change hardware deployment?
- Specifics of the legal issues?

Did I miss anything?

Cheers

Dave

[Flashman]

Nice summary...

Maybe we can add "Attempting to sell off bonds while knowing for 2 months that there were issues that would negatively impact value" = insider trading.

[Endlessa]

Hi All,

Well this certainly is a development.  Perhaps it is time so summarize what has happened and where we are :

.....

Thanks for putting time into that dave all hail the republic.

 

[Frankthechicken]

Thanks for that summary.  Well done.

The lack of comment on the Coinseed comment perhaps comes from fear of what it could mean.  It is a disturbing little comment.

[Endlessa]

Nice summary...

Maybe we can add "Attempting to sell off bonds while knowing for 2 months that there were issues that would negatively impact value" = insider trading.

Yes this is what I find most disturbing. knowing that it was messed up for 2-3 months then pumping propaganda about the hash rate going to the moon and selling a few thousand more bonds. . . .

I'd also like to hear how the coinseed relationship has changed. Are we still getting hash?  Is this why you promised to talk to us and answer questions, and then ignored us for all this time.  Has the deal soured?

How does your "(2.615-2.743 GH/s per bond)" in the first couple weeks of march become 300 mh/s per bond?  This means when you finally deploy the hardware we paid for, you'll be getting 2.2-2.4 gh/s for yourself from every single bond.  Yeah, this doesn't sound even remotely sane.

LR, I expect answers.

Problem is every time you talk, you leave more questions and half stories on the table and fail to address the lingering questions you previously left out there.  It's starting to feel like a proper Goxxing.

I'll stop here, because I'm pretty fucking pissed at the current moment.  I'll come back later when I don't want to spew fire and stab unicorns.

[Flashman]

I don't even know why we're waiting for an answer, us bondholders are sitting on more ammunition than Rock Island Arsenal, we should just achieve consensus on the way forward and tell him what he is going to do or he gets his arse held to the fire.


Oh, interesting fact, 300Mh back to IPO date is worth around 0.26 BTC, so we can go that way too.

[VinceSamios]

I don't even know why we're waiting for an answer, us bondholders are sitting on more ammunition than Rock Island Arsenal, we should just achieve consensus on the way forward and tell him what he is going to do or he gets his arse held to the fire.


Oh, interesting fact, 300Mh back to IPO date is worth around 0.26 BTC, so we can go that way too.

You are waiting because by taking any other action at this juncture you would be shooting yourself and everyone else in the fucking face.

[Flashman]

I said "we" meaning all bondholders collectively in agreement, agreeing what we are going to do, I don't actively have my finger twitching on "the big red button" at the moment, but I flipped the cover off it.

[||bit]

I don't even know why we're waiting for an answer, us bondholders are sitting on more ammunition than Rock Island Arsenal, we should just achieve consensus on the way forward and tell him what he is going to do or he gets his arse held to the fire.


Oh, interesting fact, 300Mh back to IPO date is worth around 0.26 BTC, so we can go that way too.

Good point on the 300MH since first issue. If he doesn't do what's right with the dividends, that is an argument that can be made and enough to ensure he owes so much that he can't keep any hardware for himself.

On sitting idle, I've already been through something roughly similar with another company involving bitcoin. I helped kick off the communication with other victims to organize a legal response. The owner of the company figured out a way to pay off his debts to investors/customers. Legal actions were then not necessary.

In the process of that, I found a good contact in New York that may be helpful if needed. For those unfamiliar with US geography, New York borders New Jersey (where Zack operates). That may be helpful if needed. If my contact is available, he's someone that has legal experience, knows how to navigate the court system and LR victims can pay him to do the footwork to speak with lawyers on their behalf, and serve papers to Zack etc...

First, it seems to me that we still need to give Labrat room to answer the basic questions, such as those I asked in colored lettering a page or two of comments ago. If his responses are unacceptable, then a legal path can be pursued - maybe starting next week.

[DemocraticRepublicOfDave]

I said "we" meaning all bondholders collectively in agreement, agreeing what we are going to do, I don't actively have my finger twitching on "the big red button" at the moment, but I flipped the cover off it.

I think we are all at least very frustrated/angry with the way things have going.  As many have stated previously, LabRat has a basic inability to fully communicate what is going on, either by not updating us for weeks, or when he does communicate never fully addressing the basic points.

I must admit I have been close to selling my stake on the simple issue of him not even giving a basic weekly dividend report. To me that is simply disrespectful towards share/bond/contract holders.  On the positive side I do get the impression that he is working hard to deliver on hash-rate but with the current hashing arms race this is a really difficult ask.

Additionally, I suspect I am not the only one who feels "locked-in" since the disappearance of bitfunder.  Now don't get me wrong, grnbrg is doing an excellent job of facilitating trades and I have used his service on a couple of occasions - have no complaints - and would recommend it.  However the process is more time consuming as you have to contact the buyer/seller and they may not be available (for days in some cases) or have a trade underway.  Not as simple as pressing the buy/sell button, especially when the market is so illiquid.

I do think that LabRat is on his way to solving the legal issues.  Whether he can keep up with the hashrate, however, remains to be seen.

Cheers

Dave

[Endlessa]

Additionally, I suspect I am not the only one who feels "locked-in" since the disappearance of bitfunder.  Now don't get me wrong, grnbrg is doing an excellent job of facilitating trades and I have used his service on a couple of occasions - have no complaints - and would recommend it.  However the process is more time consuming as you have to contact the buyer/seller and they may not be available (for days in some cases) or have a trade underway.  Not as simple as pressing the buy/sell button, especially when the market is so illiquid.

If we weren't before, we are now.  Nobody rational would touch this for more than pennies, until this is resolved.

[Ashitank]

Zach I hope you don't become Zosh @ BFL incarnate revision 2 & do some sensible & responsible posting here to answer questions that matter most , You will only get respectful reply's when u show respect to your investors.

[||bit]

I said "we" meaning all bondholders collectively in agreement, agreeing what we are going to do, I don't actively have my finger twitching on "the big red button" at the moment, but I flipped the cover off it.

I think we are all at least very frustrated/angry with the way things have going.  As many have stated previously, LabRat has a basic inability to fully communicate what is going on, either by not updating us for weeks, or when he does communicate never fully addressing the basic points.

I must admit I have been close to selling my stake on the simple issue of him not even giving a basic weekly dividend report. To me that is simply disrespectful towards share/bond/contract holders.  On the positive side I do get the impression that he is working hard to deliver on hash-rate but with the current hashing arms race this is a really difficult ask.

Additionally, I suspect I am not the only one who feels "locked-in" since the disappearance of bitfunder.  Now don't get me wrong, grnbrg is doing an excellent job of facilitating trades and I have used his service on a couple of occasions - have no complaints - and would recommend it.  However the process is more time consuming as you have to contact the buyer/seller and they may not be available (for days in some cases) or have a trade underway.  Not as simple as pressing the buy/sell button, especially when the market is so illiquid.

I do think that LabRat is on his way to solving the legal issues.  Whether he can keep up with the hashrate, however, remains to be seen.

Cheers

Dave

I've been burned many times because I'm a high risk taker. And I know how deceptively nice people can be. Don't misunderstand me! I don't think anything mischievous is necessarily going on.  But people need to at least be prepared for the worse case and ready to deliver a fierce legal response.

In my day, I've been a victim of at least four fraudulent investment 'opportunities'. And all of these got shut down by either the FBI or state attorneys. In each, the owners were either imprisoned or successfully sued. And to the credit of the feds and states, in each case they returned what funds they recover back to victims - even if it takes a year to deliver the check.

Labrat Mining does have a couple of the hallmarks of such operations (I shouldn't have to explain what those are), but that doesn't mean it is such a fraudulent operation. Like I said, I'm a risk taker....

...well, if it is a fraud, then that'll be at least five frauds I've endured and seen torn down by feds. Yeah, another bullet for my belt.. might have enough for a bandoleer one day

[rangerbob21]

Are you fucking kidding me? The whole reason I purchased the original bonds, way back when, was the promise that the bond would be equal to a proportional hash rate based on the total LRM hash rate and increase when the total hash rate increased. Period. Now LR is saying that all original bonds are now capped at 300MH/s? Am I reading this correctly? My technical term for this would be "bait and switch" correct? I really hope I am incorrect here.

Thanks!

[Endlessa]

Are you fucking kidding me? The whole reason I purchased the original bonds, way back when, was the promise that the bond would be equal to a proportional hash rate based on the total LRM hash rate and increase when the total hash rate increased. Period. Now LR is saying that all original bonds are now capped at 300MH/s? Am I reading this correctly? My technical term for this would be "bait and switch" correct? I really hope I am incorrect here.

Thanks!

CHANGE IN PAYOUT RATE STRUCTURE

Cryptocurrencies, which includes Bitcoin, are relatively new to the world economic communities and its governments. Worldwide there continues to be almost daily announcements from governments regarding crypto currencies. Lab Rat Data Processing, a Limited Liability Company in the state of New Jersey, continues to monitor those announcements and the ever-changing laws and economic environments and how those laws impact cryptocurrencies, including Bitcoin, and in particular Lab Rat Data Processing. Most important to Lab Rat Data Processing are the ever-changing laws and/or announcements from the United States and its governmental agencies and the state of New Jersey and its governmental agencies.

Based upon recent developments in US and local laws, Lab Rat Data Processing, and their legal representatives, have determined a potential current or future problem with its current rate structure, which was originally intended as a variable rate payout. Therefore, Lab Rat Data Processing is amending its variable rate payout with a set rate payout of 100 MH/s per contract. This rate payout shall be for all current contract-holders and all future contract-holders.  Contemporaneous with the change from a varying rate payout to a set rate payout Lab_Rat will triple the amount of contracts held by all contract holders as of the date of March 8, 2014.  Therefore, for all current contract holders on their current contracts, the effective rate will be permanently set at 300 MH/s per contract.  All future contracts purchased will be at the new rate of 100MH/s.

Lab Rat Data Processing will continue to monitor developments for cryptocurrencies and Bitcoin in particular, seeking to maintain its current status as a leader in the Bitcoin community and to maintain compliance with US and New Jersey laws.

More information to come.

You are not incorrect according to what LR posted that started this shit fest.  In fact, as of right now that is all you own.  Consider your shares to be < 1 AM usb device.