-

[sparky999]

I'm seriously having problems to understand those that claim WE're the problem in here.. can anyone explain me why WE are the ones causing all this? and oh poor Zach, don't alienate him... he has more than a million dollars in equipment bought by our payments for shares and 25% collected during months and 2 weeks of hardware and we're the ones causing this?

Haven't figured it out yet, have you?

I predicted this very thing.

There is much more going on than you know but I'm certain you will find out and my comments are not based on speculation.

My $.02.

You talk so much nonsense, your original post about fin cen IRS bullshit was wrong then and is wrong now. You were not ignored when you first wrote it. At least two or three people replied and pointed out why you were wrong. Stop spreading lies written as truth. You are not an investor in this company by your own admission and your opinion is not welcome or valued. You have made every one in this thread slightly dumber for having listened to your mindless rambling guessing, feel free to stop posting here.

Perhaps for your final post in this thread you can fully disclose your actual purpose for being here because for you to come across as having no ulterior motive here is disingenuous.  

[1715581671]

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[1715581671]

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[bobfranklin]

I'm seriously having problems to understand those that claim WE're the problem in here.. can anyone explain me why WE are the ones causing all this? and oh poor Zach, don't alienate him... he has more than a million dollars in equipment bought by our payments for shares and 25% collected during months and 2 weeks of hardware and we're the ones causing this?

Haven't figured it out yet, have you?

I predicted this very thing.

There is much more going on than you know but I'm certain you will find out and my comments are not based on speculation.

My $.02.

You talk so much nonsense, your original post about fin cen IRS bullshit was wrong then and is wrong now. You were not ignored when you first wrote it. At least two or three people replied and pointed out why you were wrong. Stop spreading lies written as truth. You are not an investor in this company by your own admission and your opinion is not welcome or valued. You have made every one in this thread slightly dumber for having listened to your mindless rambling guessing, feel free to stop posting here.

Perhaps for your final post in this thread you can fully disclose your actual purpose for being here because for you to come across as having no ulterior motive here is disingenuous.  

This caused a billy maddison flashback and made me chuckle - after a shitty day at work it was well received. Cheers!

[LostDutchman]

Wait and see.

My $.02.

[pontikis13]

Wait and see.

My $.02.

Are you by any chance here to promote your quickstopcoporationshop site? Following sparky999's comments I've also become curious as to why you are participating in this thread.

[runam0k]

My $.02.

^ Can you move this to your sig?  It must be a pain to type all the time, plus I have sigs turned off.

[Blazed]

My $.02.

^ Can you move this to your sig?  It must be a pain to type all the time, plus I have sigs turned off.

lol agreed...that is annoying

[LostDutchman]

Wait and see.

My $.02.

Are you by any chance here to promote your quickstopcoporationshop site? Following sparky999's comments I've also become curious as to why you are participating in this thread.

No, I was an early supporter of Lab_Rat and his program on the BFL site, this site and elsewhere and I wish to make it clear that I no longer suport his program and wish to warn current users and potential users of the pitfalls.

I have heavily involved in the Bitcoin and cryptocurrency world in general and have as much stake in the outcome of this debacle as a paid user.

Although I considered in vesting in Lab_Rat's operation I chose not to because I saw little point in investing through a third party in vapourware which would not show up and get to work mining in a reasonable period of time.  Instead I opted for atlcoin miners using readily avaiable mobos, PSUsand GPUs, which while occasionaly subject to out-of-stock delays could nevertheless be placed into service within a few weeks at most of my or a client's investment.

I was not so mean as to include a cluase in my agreement which said that if things go South, you can't sue me.  (By the way, I ran that clause past my attorney who is a retired District Court judge, who giggled a bit and told me that one would last right up the time it hit the first courtroom because it pretty much goes against public policy)  What I did do was include a clause which stated that if the law changed such that the public mining operation became to expensive to continue or impractical taht the "investor" or "mining partner" could keep the crypto mined and accept one of the two following options:

(1) Receive a full refund in whatever currency the original investment had been made.

or

(2) Have the equivalent amount in equipment sent to them provided they covered the shipping costs.

Needless to say, when I notified my mining partners in a timely manner of the changes without doing a dance like Lab_Rat, most opted for a straight refund.  Some of my people are disgruntled; Hell, I'm disgrunteld by the rulings and required steps to stay in compliance but you don't have people coming in here howling how I wouldn't return their money, do you?

I took care of business without doing a dance that no one could follow.

Why did I close my public mining operations?

Because the law changed and mining operations such as mine and as Lab_Rat's become Money Transmitters and Money Service Businesses under the March 18, 2013 FIN-Cen ruling and subsequent rulings, if you doulbt me, read these and weep:

http://fincen.gov/statutes_regs/guidance/html/FIN-2013-G001.html

http://www.fincen.gov/news_room/rp/rulings/pdf/FIN-2014-R002.pdf

"For purposes of the guidance, FinCEN refers to the participants in generic virtual currency arrangements, using the terms “exchanger,” “administrator,” and “user.” An exchanger
is a person engaged as a business in the exchange of virtual currency for real currency, funds, or other virtual currency.

 An administrator is a person engaged as a business in issuing (putting into circulation) a virtual currency, and who has the authority to redeem (to withdraw from circulation) such virtual currency. A user is a person that obtains virtual currency to purchase goods or services on the user’s own behalf.

The guidance makes clear that an administrator or exchanger of convertible virtualcurrencies that (1) accepts and transmits a convertible virtual currency or (2) buys or sells convertible virtual currency in exchange for currency of legal tender or another convertible virtual currency for any reason (including when intermediating between a user and a seller of goods or services the user is purchasing on the user’s behalf) is a money transmitter underFinCEN's regulations, unless a limitation to or exemption from the definition applies to theperson. 8

The guidance also makes clear that “a user who obtains convertible virtual currency and uses it to purchase real or virtual goods or services is not an MSB under FinCEN's regulations."

The ruling makes it clear that both my operations as well as thouse of Lab_Rat would be considered to be Money Transmitters, requiring FIN-Cen registration as well as licencing as a money transmitter in each and every state that has money transmitter laws in which we would do business.

Such licencing is a very expensive proposition involving millions of dollars in bonds and expensive licences.  

I have moven my mining operation into a private corporation which mines for only for itself, which does not distribute the mined crypto to others except in the case of payment for goods or services, thus exempting the operation for m the requirements of the recent rulings.

I think Lab_Rat's problems also extend to having put out a ton of $ for equipment that will not be delivered in a timely manner, thus delaying its effective use.

Lab_Rat's problems will snowball, I think and the results will not be pleasant and a detriment to the crypto community as a whole.

He should come clean right now and get these issues resolved before the whole thing goes down in flames like the Hindenburg!

My $.02.

[LostDutchman]

My $.02.

^ Can you move this to your sig?  It must be a pain to type all the time, plus I have sigs turned off.

Let me think about that for a moment.

(Intermission music.)

OK, I thought about it.

No but thanks for asking!

My $.02.

[daemonfox]

Wait and see.

My $.02.

Are you by any chance here to promote your quickstopcoporationshop site? Following sparky999's comments I've also become curious as to why you are participating in this thread.

No, I was an early supporter of Lab_Rat and his program on the BFL site, this site and elsewhere and I wish to make it clear that I no longer suport his program and wish to warn current users and potential users of the pitfalls.

I have heavily involved in the Bitcoin and cryptocurrency world in general and have as much stake in the outcome of this debacle as a paid user.

Although I considered in vesting in Lab_Rat's operation I chose not to because I saw little point in investing through a third party in vapourware which would not show up and get to work mining in a reasonable period of time.  Instead I opted for atlcoin miners using readily avaiable mobos, PSUsand GPUs, which while occasionaly subject to out-of-stock delays could nevertheless be placed into service within a few weeks at most of my or a client's investment.

I was not so mean as to include a cluase in my agreement which said that if things go South, you can't sue me.  (By the way, I ran that clause past my attorney who is a retired District Court judge, who giggled a bit and told me that one would last right up the time it hit the first courtroom because it pretty much goes against public policy)  What I did do was include a clause which stated that if the law changed such that the public mining operation became to expensive to continue or impractical taht the "investor" or "mining partner" could keep the crypto mined and accept one of the two following options:

(1) Receive a full refund in whatever currency the original investment had been made.

or

(2) Have the equivalent amount in equipment sent to them provided they covered the shipping costs.

Needless to say, when I notified my mining partners in a timely manner of the changes without doing a dance like Lab_Rat, most opted for a straight refund.  Some of my people are disgruntled; Hell, I'm disgrunteld by the rulings and required steps to stay in compliance but you don't have people coming in here howling how I wouldn't return their money, do you?

I took care of business without doing a dance that no one could follow.

Why did I close my public mining operations?

Because the law changed and mining operations such as mine and as Lab_Rat's become Money Transmitters and Money Service Businesses under the March 18, 2013 FIN-Cen ruling and subsequent rulings, if you doulbt me, read these and weep:

http://fincen.gov/statutes_regs/guidance/html/FIN-2013-G001.html

http://www.fincen.gov/news_room/rp/rulings/pdf/FIN-2014-R002.pdf

"For purposes of the guidance, FinCEN refers to the participants in generic virtual currency arrangements, using the terms “exchanger,” “administrator,” and “user.” An exchanger
is a person engaged as a business in the exchange of virtual currency for real currency, funds, or other virtual currency.

 An administrator is a person engaged as a business in issuing (putting into circulation) a virtual currency, and who has the authority to redeem (to withdraw from circulation) such virtual currency. A user is a person that obtains virtual currency to purchase goods or services on the user’s own behalf.

The guidance makes clear that an administrator or exchanger of convertible virtualcurrencies that (1) accepts and transmits a convertible virtual currency or (2) buys or sells convertible virtual currency in exchange for currency of legal tender or another convertible virtual currency for any reason (including when intermediating between a user and a seller of goods or services the user is purchasing on the user’s behalf) is a money transmitter underFinCEN's regulations, unless a limitation to or exemption from the definition applies to theperson. 8

The guidance also makes clear that “a user who obtains convertible virtual currency and uses it to purchase real or virtual goods or services is not an MSB under FinCEN's regulations."

The ruling makes it clear that both my operations as well as thouse of Lab_Rat would be considered to be Money Transmitters, requiring FIN-Cen registration as well as licencing as a money transmitter in each and every state that has money transmitter laws in which we would do business.

Such licencing is a very expensive proposition involving millions of dollars in bonds and expensive licences.  

I have moven my mining operation into a private corporation which mines for only for itself, which does not distribute the mined crypto to others except in the case of payment for goods or services, thus exempting the operation for m the requirements of the recent rulings.

I think Lab_Rat's problems also extend to having put out a ton of $ for equipment that will not be delivered in a timely manner, thus delaying its effective use.

Lab_Rat's problems will snowball, I think and the results will not be pleasant and a detriment to the crypto community as a whole.

He should come clean right now and get these issues resolved before the whole thing goes down in flames like the Hindenburg!

My $.02.

Now I am certain! Knew that was you RR! LOL!

[LostDutchman]

Wait and see.

My $.02.

Are you by any chance here to promote your quickstopcoporationshop site? Following sparky999's comments I've also become curious as to why you are participating in this thread.

No, I was an early supporter of Lab_Rat and his program on the BFL site, this site and elsewhere and I wish to make it clear that I no longer suport his program and wish to warn current users and potential users of the pitfalls.

I have heavily involved in the Bitcoin and cryptocurrency world in general and have as much stake in the outcome of this debacle as a paid user.

Although I considered in vesting in Lab_Rat's operation I chose not to because I saw little point in investing through a third party in vapourware which would not show up and get to work mining in a reasonable period of time.  Instead I opted for atlcoin miners using readily avaiable mobos, PSUsand GPUs, which while occasionaly subject to out-of-stock delays could nevertheless be placed into service within a few weeks at most of my or a client's investment.

I was not so mean as to include a cluase in my agreement which said that if things go South, you can't sue me.  (By the way, I ran that clause past my attorney who is a retired District Court judge, who giggled a bit and told me that one would last right up the time it hit the first courtroom because it pretty much goes against public policy)  What I did do was include a clause which stated that if the law changed such that the public mining operation became to expensive to continue or impractical taht the "investor" or "mining partner" could keep the crypto mined and accept one of the two following options:

(1) Receive a full refund in whatever currency the original investment had been made.

or

(2) Have the equivalent amount in equipment sent to them provided they covered the shipping costs.

Needless to say, when I notified my mining partners in a timely manner of the changes without doing a dance like Lab_Rat, most opted for a straight refund.  Some of my people are disgruntled; Hell, I'm disgrunteld by the rulings and required steps to stay in compliance but you don't have people coming in here howling how I wouldn't return their money, do you?

I took care of business without doing a dance that no one could follow.

Why did I close my public mining operations?

Because the law changed and mining operations such as mine and as Lab_Rat's become Money Transmitters and Money Service Businesses under the March 18, 2013 FIN-Cen ruling and subsequent rulings, if you doulbt me, read these and weep:

http://fincen.gov/statutes_regs/guidance/html/FIN-2013-G001.html

http://www.fincen.gov/news_room/rp/rulings/pdf/FIN-2014-R002.pdf

"For purposes of the guidance, FinCEN refers to the participants in generic virtual currency arrangements, using the terms “exchanger,” “administrator,” and “user.” An exchanger
is a person engaged as a business in the exchange of virtual currency for real currency, funds, or other virtual currency.

 An administrator is a person engaged as a business in issuing (putting into circulation) a virtual currency, and who has the authority to redeem (to withdraw from circulation) such virtual currency. A user is a person that obtains virtual currency to purchase goods or services on the user’s own behalf.

The guidance makes clear that an administrator or exchanger of convertible virtualcurrencies that (1) accepts and transmits a convertible virtual currency or (2) buys or sells convertible virtual currency in exchange for currency of legal tender or another convertible virtual currency for any reason (including when intermediating between a user and a seller of goods or services the user is purchasing on the user’s behalf) is a money transmitter underFinCEN's regulations, unless a limitation to or exemption from the definition applies to theperson. 8

The guidance also makes clear that “a user who obtains convertible virtual currency and uses it to purchase real or virtual goods or services is not an MSB under FinCEN's regulations."

The ruling makes it clear that both my operations as well as thouse of Lab_Rat would be considered to be Money Transmitters, requiring FIN-Cen registration as well as licencing as a money transmitter in each and every state that has money transmitter laws in which we would do business.

Such licencing is a very expensive proposition involving millions of dollars in bonds and expensive licences.  

I have moven my mining operation into a private corporation which mines for only for itself, which does not distribute the mined crypto to others except in the case of payment for goods or services, thus exempting the operation for m the requirements of the recent rulings.

I think Lab_Rat's problems also extend to having put out a ton of $ for equipment that will not be delivered in a timely manner, thus delaying its effective use.

Lab_Rat's problems will snowball, I think and the results will not be pleasant and a detriment to the crypto community as a whole.

He should come clean right now and get these issues resolved before the whole thing goes down in flames like the Hindenburg!

My $.02.

Now I am certain! Knew that was you RR! LOL!

Guess we have to add Lab_Rat to RR's sh*list, eh?:



My $.02.

[zero10]

I'm having a bit of a hard time following this thread with all the noise in it.  Is there a post somewhere that dictates how we can get our shares converted to the new contract?  I have never provided an email address to grnbrg or to labrat so I definitely have not been contacted about this.

[grnbrg]

I'm having a bit of a hard time following this thread with all the noise in it.  Is there a post somewhere that dictates how we can get our shares converted to the new contract?  I have never provided an email address to grnbrg or to labrat so I definitely have not been contacted about this.

Yeah, the information I have indicates you are verified, but don't have an email address associated.  I'd email labrat@labratmining.com (or PM me) with a message stating your intention to convert, signed with your LRM Bitcoin address.



grnbrg.

[bobfranklin]

Although I considered in vesting in Lab_Rat's operation I chose not to

At that point I'd be hitting Mute normally on peoples opinions (not all that interested in people on the outside telling me what I can/should do on the inside).

[LostDutchman]

Although I considered in vesting in Lab_Rat's operation I chose not to

At that point I'd be hitting Mute normally on peoples opinions (not all that interested in people on the outside telling me what I can/should do on the inside).

Often the opinion of one who is not financially vested in a thing can be much more valuable and on point than the emotional opinions of those who are.

My $.02.

[elitenoob]

My $.02.

Hope you donate this many cents to greenpeace or something...

[LostDutchman]

My $.02.

Hope you donate this many cents to greenpeace or something...

I prefer to donate to animal rescue organisations, thank you.

My $.02.

[BKM]

ITs only common sense to put everything on the table..

1. What is the total hashrate?
2. What is the estimated future hashrate?
3. What will this bonus be?
4. BE TRANSPARENT!

I don't mind signing a new deal if the deal makes sense. I wouldnt buy a car and have the salesman say "if you buy the car today, on may 14th we will give you a bonus on the interest". Who in their right mind would agree to that? The interest could be more or less or nothing. In the business world, EVERYTHING needs to be written in stone. Nothing can be left to guess work or that interpretation will be left to a judge.

We need to know the fine print. You cant just say "bonus". I may be mistaken, but it sounds like we are being forced to sign this agreement or we will miss out on this "bonus". That is coercion. Correct me if im wrong. There is so much to read and its hard to decipher whats being said and by whom. There are a lot of newbies that are chiming in.

I wont make any judgements until I see the final agreement.

This and dozens of cogently written, sincere, pragmatic, intelligent, concerned, well meaning posts in the pages since the AMA... Sure there are a few trollish posts but far less than one might expect. Take off the troll glasses Zach and focus on the underlying message being delivered here.... Particularly by Bigasic, Ashitank Endlessea and other serious people. If you continue down the path outlined in the AMA all the work you have done is dead. If you listen and modify your path (it is still not too late) then perhaps this can work without all of us wasting hours and thousands of dollars enriching lawyers.

I have emailed you and you know my answer: no to the unilateral 3:1 conversion and no to the most recent proposal. I get that things need to change to stay on side of the regs but without full disclosure and a trust less process we are done. Not too late.... Let's get it done right and keep making money together

[bichitotu]

I'm having a bit of a hard time following this thread with all the noise in it.  Is there a post somewhere that dictates how we can get our shares converted to the new contract?  I have never provided an email address to grnbrg or to labrat so I definitely have not been contacted about this.

I am having the same problem, i think a post in the labrat web it would help to everyone here.

[Flashman]

I get that things need to change to stay on side of the regs but without full disclosure and a trust less process we are done. Not too late.... Let's get it done right and keep making money together

Yup, Zach's trust bank is way into the overdraft with all the shadiness and lack of info of the last couple of months, went a whole lot more into the red by only dumping the contract seconds before the AMA after promising it earlier in the week.... and the gist of that is "You officially get nothing, but trust me" ... nope, not how it's gonna work.

Things we understand...
Running costs compared to profit margin are getting high.
ASIC manufacturers are douches, preorders suck and getting hash today means you probably had to overpay for it 6 months ago.

People we've heard "Just trust me" from or, words to that effect, in the past.
Karpeles
Ukyo
Danny Brewster
TradeFortress
...
...

[LostDutchman]

I get that things need to change to stay on side of the regs but without full disclosure and a trust less process we are done. Not too late.... Let's get it done right and keep making money together

Yup, Zach's trust bank is way into the overdraft with all the shadiness and lack of info of the last couple of months, went a whole lot more into the red by only dumping the contract seconds before the AMA after promising it earlier in the week.... and the gist of that is "You officially get nothing, but trust me" ... nope, not how it's gonna work.

Things we understand...
Running costs compared to profit margin are getting high.
ASIC manufacturers are douches, preorders suck and getting hash today means you probably had to overpay for it 6 months ago.

People we've heard "Just trust me" from or, words to that effect, in the past.
Karpeles
Ukyo
Danny Brewster
TradeFortress
...
...

Not to mention Butterfly Labs, for which Lab_Rat was once a BFL forum moderator, Terrahash, Cloudhashing  and let's see; just who else?

I forget.

My $.02.