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Author Topic: [XPM] [ANN] Primecoin Release - First Scientific Computing Cryptocurrency  (Read 686991 times)
ivanlabrie
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November 05, 2013, 12:55:41 AM
 #3281

mikaelh, I'm having trouble with the wallet...it stopped syncinc despite me trying the fixes you guys suggested.
Not sure what's up with that, I got stuck with a transaction with 0 of 6 confirmations.

Well, you can try looking at the debug.log file to see if there's a cause there. The file is in the %APPDATA%\Primecoin folder since you're on Windows. If all else fails, you can try deleting the database files in that folder. Make sure to preserve wallet.dat though.

Done that, didn't work...I don't get it. How can I tell if the time is incorrectly set? I have a few coins stuck there. Sad
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mikaelh
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November 05, 2013, 10:16:57 AM
 #3282

mikaelh, I'm having trouble with the wallet...it stopped syncinc despite me trying the fixes you guys suggested.
Not sure what's up with that, I got stuck with a transaction with 0 of 6 confirmations.

Well, you can try looking at the debug.log file to see if there's a cause there. The file is in the %APPDATA%\Primecoin folder since you're on Windows. If all else fails, you can try deleting the database files in that folder. Make sure to preserve wallet.dat though.

Done that, didn't work...I don't get it. How can I tell if the time is incorrectly set? I have a few coins stuck there. Sad

Check the date (including year), the time and the timezone. Which block are you getting stuck on? You can compare that to the block count here:
http://primecoin.21stcenturymoneytalk.org/
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November 05, 2013, 10:53:10 AM
 #3283

What is best miner for solo mining XPM?  Huh

Easy, the High Performance HP11 (or whatever version's the latest at any given time).
Search for it here, it's made by mikaelh, one of the developers.

Are you sure? I solomine with  rdebourbon miner and get pretty good results.

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November 06, 2013, 02:22:29 PM
 #3284

Ok, rolled back to the primecoin client found at primecoin.org (not the high perf one) and erased all blocks and stuff but not my dat.
Got a new payment in, but the aforementioned stuck deposit is still stuck at 0 confirmations.
Here's the txid: 368f08fc87b8712432be07549201de515122345f26583ba4409bc42f6e78d618-000

Any clues?
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November 06, 2013, 07:13:13 PM
 #3285

Ok, rolled back to the primecoin client found at primecoin.org (not the high perf one) and erased all blocks and stuff but not my dat.
Got a new payment in, but the aforementioned stuck deposit is still stuck at 0 confirmations.
Here's the txid: 368f08fc87b8712432be07549201de515122345f26583ba4409bc42f6e78d618-000

Any clues?

Looks like that transaction never made it to the network. Unsent transactions are stored in the wallet.dat file. If you keep the wallet running, it should eventually resend that transaction. Did you check whether the date and time were correct?

If you want to get rid of the unconfirmed transaction, you can use -salvagewallet which will extract only the private keys from your wallet and ignores the transactions. As always, it's best to make a copy of your wallet.dat before doing this.
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November 06, 2013, 07:31:30 PM
 #3286

I actually just did getrawtransaction to get the signed tx and then broadcasted via sendrawtransaction from another node.
ivanlabrie
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November 06, 2013, 09:08:48 PM
 #3287

Ok, rolled back to the primecoin client found at primecoin.org (not the high perf one) and erased all blocks and stuff but not my dat.
Got a new payment in, but the aforementioned stuck deposit is still stuck at 0 confirmations.
Here's the txid: 368f08fc87b8712432be07549201de515122345f26583ba4409bc42f6e78d618-000

Any clues?

Looks like that transaction never made it to the network. Unsent transactions are stored in the wallet.dat file. If you keep the wallet running, it should eventually resend that transaction. Did you check whether the date and time were correct?

If you want to get rid of the unconfirmed transaction, you can use -salvagewallet which will extract only the private keys from your wallet and ignores the transactions. As always, it's best to make a copy of your wallet.dat before doing this.

I didn't send any $$ from my wallet...I think it's an inbound transaction, a pool payment (probably).
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November 06, 2013, 11:14:34 PM
 #3288

Sunny King
Primecoin Mining Research
http://www.peercointalk.org/index.php?topic=813


I am not sure if the Primecoin forum is very active, therefore I am posting my response to the posting above here also.

@Sunny
I am new to Primecoin but by no means new to Number Theory. I briefly looked at the source code of the latest version of mikaelh2's enhancements and I did not see much room for improvement. Using GMP for the modular exponentiation seems to be the biggest improvement. You can use the mod 60 wheel (sieve of Atkin) for the sieving step but I do not see that improving the overall run-time by any significant amount. The bottle neck is with the modular exponentiation of large numbers and Montgomery multiplication can be used to reduce multiplication time. But off course, Montgomery multiplication has its drawbacks, you are working with many different residue classes.

So now, there are two possible directions for the research of finding longer chains faster. The first direction is to continue making incremental improvements to the sieving and modular exponentiation arithmetic (brute force). And the second direction (which I prefer) is to analyze all of the data collected so far and come up with better arithmetic for finding longer chains. I assume that this was the reason that made Primecoin unique, otherwise it is no different from Bitcoin mining.

Unfortunately, carrying out the research to analyze collected data will require funding. I have been running "Primecoin version v0.1.2.0xpm-hp11-unk-beta" for 4 days now on a 32/64 core/thread server and I have only mined a block (primemeter  43807850 prime/h 663367364 test/h  180 7-chains/h 8.075400 chain/d). I just cannot see how anyone, other that people who have access to botnets, can be profitable at mining Primecoin.

Also, I am currently working on a GPU (Nvidia CUDA/PTX) off-load engine for the modular exponentiation (Montgomery) for the Primecoin miner. A GTX 580 should have the same throughput as all 32 cores/64 threads combined when performing Montgomery modular exponentiation. The sieve (of Atkin) will remain on the CPU to maximize performance.

@All
You can donate to the address below if you will like to see this research progress.
ALAxNNtF2hBPUpXFdN8Xexp1HbKwh4JeEK (Primecoin)
1MCqoWLA3eyqovRXKCydoDSfNN8C28y3k2 (Bitcoin)

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satriani
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November 06, 2013, 11:46:39 PM
 #3289

Supercomputing: can you tell us if GPU could mine 10x faster then CPU in the nearest future ? Is it possible? Or other FGPA/ASIC stuff could be used to mine PrimeCoin?
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November 07, 2013, 12:10:33 AM
 #3290

Supercomputing: can you tell us if GPU could mine 10x faster then CPU in the nearest future ? Is it possible? Or other FGPA/ASIC stuff could be used to mine PrimeCoin?

Montgomery multiplication - Coarsely integrated operand scanning (CIOS) @ 256-bit
An Nvidia GTX 580 (reference design ) is about 7x faster than an AMD Phenom II X6 1100T using all six cores

Montgomery multiplication for GPU - must use hand optimized PTX (unrolled)
Montgomery multiplication for CPU - must use hand optimized x64 assembly (unrolled)

I would put the GPU at about 7x that of the CPU since modular multiplication is the bottle neck and not sieving.


FPGA's will only be useful for primorial searching, they are not cost effective for modular multiplication.

Electrical Engineering & Computer Science
http://www.eecs.mit.edu/
Trillium
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November 07, 2013, 03:27:05 AM
 #3291

Quote
Unfortunately, carrying out the research to analyze collected data will require funding. I have been running "Primecoin version v0.1.2.0xpm-hp11-unk-beta" for 4 days now on a 32/64 core/thread server and I have only mined a block (primemeter  43807850 prime/h 663367364 test/h  180 7-chains/h 8.075400 chain/d). I just cannot see how anyone, other that people who have access to botnets, can be profitable at mining Primecoin.

8.0754 * 0.8 * 0.04 = 0.26 blocks per day (no variance) = those results are completely as expected = deal with it!

Edit: Apparently this old method of estimating blocks/day is outdated: ref: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=255782.msg3487226#msg3487226

BTC:1AaaAAAAaAAE2L1PXM1x9VDNqvcrfa9He6
satriani
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November 07, 2013, 10:41:48 PM
 #3292

Supercomputing: can you tell us if GPU could mine 10x faster then CPU in the nearest future ? Is it possible? Or other FGPA/ASIC stuff could be used to mine PrimeCoin?

Montgomery multiplication - Coarsely integrated operand scanning (CIOS) @ 256-bit
An Nvidia GTX 580 (reference design ) is about 7x faster than an AMD Phenom II X6 1100T using all six cores

Montgomery multiplication for GPU - must use hand optimized PTX (unrolled)
Montgomery multiplication for CPU - must use hand optimized x64 assembly (unrolled)

I would put the GPU at about 7x that of the CPU since modular multiplication is the bottle neck and not sieving.


FPGA's will only be useful for primorial searching, they are not cost effective for modular multiplication.

you are saying that you (or someone else) can create GPU miner which is 7x faster then CPU (for the same price) ? how long could it take?
Stinky_Pete
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November 08, 2013, 01:00:48 AM
Last edit: November 08, 2013, 01:13:36 AM by Stinky_Pete
 #3293

Supercomputing: can you tell us if GPU could mine 10x faster then CPU in the nearest future ? Is it possible? Or other FGPA/ASIC stuff could be used to mine PrimeCoin?

Montgomery multiplication - Coarsely integrated operand scanning (CIOS) @ 256-bit
An Nvidia GTX 580 (reference design ) is about 7x faster than an AMD Phenom II X6 1100T using all six cores

Montgomery multiplication for GPU - must use hand optimized PTX (unrolled)
Montgomery multiplication for CPU - must use hand optimized x64 assembly (unrolled)

I would put the GPU at about 7x that of the CPU since modular multiplication is the bottle neck and not sieving.


FPGA's will only be useful for primorial searching, they are not cost effective for modular multiplication.

you are saying that you (or someone else) can create GPU miner which is 7x faster then CPU (for the same price) ? how long could it take?
No, he is saying that the current bottleneck can be made 7x faster. This is only one part of a more complicated pathway, so one might expect a fresh bottleneck to become apparent. For example
The sieve (of Atkin) will remain on the CPU to maximize performance.
If you have a slow CPU this may become the next bottleneck. If you have a powerful, many cored processor, the next bottleneck may be in another part of the calculation. How would we tell, since collecting all the required data on miners' hardware and software environments is next to impossible?

So now, there are two possible directions for the research of finding longer chains faster. The first direction is to continue making incremental improvements to the sieving and modular exponentiation arithmetic (brute force). And the second direction (which I prefer) is to analyze all of the data collected so far and come up with better arithmetic for finding longer chains. I assume that this was the reason that made Primecoin unique, otherwise it is no different from Bitcoin mining.

Unfortunately, carrying out the research to analyze collected data will require funding.

ivanlabrie
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November 08, 2013, 01:07:12 AM
 #3294

Really interesting...Primecoin is doing alright, all things considered.
I'm in for the long haul.
Supercomputing
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November 08, 2013, 07:25:00 AM
 #3295

Quote
Unfortunately, carrying out the research to analyze collected data will require funding. I have been running "Primecoin version v0.1.2.0xpm-hp11-unk-beta" for 4 days now on a 32/64 core/thread server and I have only mined a block (primemeter  43807850 prime/h 663367364 test/h  180 7-chains/h 8.075400 chain/d). I just cannot see how anyone, other that people who have access to botnets, can be profitable at mining Primecoin.

8.0754 * 0.8 * 0.04 = 0.26 blocks per day (no variance) = those results are completely as expected = deal with it!

Edit: Apparently this old method of estimating blocks/day is outdated: ref: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=255782.msg3487226#msg3487226

My GTX 580 disagrees with that mathematical formula and it did not even enroll in any engineering classes at MIT. You need to actually count the number of 9-chains at a fixed precision for a given amount of time before you can estimate your probability of finding a chain that meets the requirement.

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Supercomputing
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November 08, 2013, 08:12:14 AM
 #3296

Supercomputing: can you tell us if GPU could mine 10x faster then CPU in the nearest future ? Is it possible? Or other FGPA/ASIC stuff could be used to mine PrimeCoin?

Montgomery multiplication - Coarsely integrated operand scanning (CIOS) @ 256-bit
An Nvidia GTX 580 (reference design ) is about 7x faster than an AMD Phenom II X6 1100T using all six cores

Montgomery multiplication for GPU - must use hand optimized PTX (unrolled)
Montgomery multiplication for CPU - must use hand optimized x64 assembly (unrolled)

I would put the GPU at about 7x that of the CPU since modular multiplication is the bottle neck and not sieving.


FPGA's will only be useful for primorial searching, they are not cost effective for modular multiplication.

you are saying that you (or someone else) can create GPU miner which is 7x faster then CPU (for the same price) ? how long could it take?

Yes, that is correct when using the GPU and CPU below for the baseline.

For most desktop CPUs, it will be more than 7x faster. Also, the AMD Bulldozer and the Nvidia GTX 6xx series took a step backwards when it comes to integer arithmetic throughput (for multiplication). Intel's Sandy Bridge, Ivy Bridge, and Haswell processors are also very good. However, AMD's K10 series is still king for the CPUs, and the GTX Titan is still king for the GPUs.

For me, I am still at the proof of concept stage and it is looking very good. I found 5 blocks (9-chain) in the last 4 hours while off-loading the Fermat tests to the GPU (single GTX 580). There is still a lot of work left to do before reaching the point where a single GTX 580 can aid in finding 3 blocks (10-chains) within 24 hours. The primorial search needs to be off-loaded to a second GPU, it is just as important as sieving for aiding in the search for 10-chains faster at 320-bit. I would estimate somewhere between 15-20 hours of work, but finding the free time for me at this time of the year is more difficult than doing the actual work. Early next year I will have time and the botnets can enjoy Primcoin mining for a couple of months longer before the knockout punch comes to them.

Baseline GPU: Nvidia GTX 580  (utilizing all 16 processors 512 ALUs)
Baseline CPU: AMD Phenom II X6 1100T (utilizing all 6 cores SIMD)


Primecoin Miner off-load GPU (must follow these rules for multiprecision arithmetic implementation):
Minimize thread divergence.
Global memory access must be coalesced.
Use shared memory for data exchange.
Precision must be fixed at compile time: e.g. 320-bit.
Use Montgomery Reduction (CIOS).
Must use unrolled PTX coding for Montgomery Reduction (madc, mad.cc, addc, add.cc, etc).
Compile and bechmark with different values for maxrregcount.
Compile and bechmark with different grids, blocks, and threads organization.
Compile to .cubin format and profile the code.
Optimize the code using the profiling data.

If the above guideline is not followed, an x64 CPU will most likely outperform the GPU.

Electrical Engineering & Computer Science
http://www.eecs.mit.edu/
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November 08, 2013, 08:44:27 AM
 #3297

im sure that if you invent something that really work you could be a millionaire. Invent GPU miner could couse drop reward very quickly and make the price higher. this is the race - so move on. you can find some funds - just try to find a investor on your area.

if you really don't have time/energy to do this - maybe you can give some tips to another devs on public forum
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November 08, 2013, 08:49:09 AM
 #3298

Hey fellas. Just downloaded 1.2-beta win32 client from sourceforge and trying to get it up and running but seemingly not finding any peers. Anybody else having this problem? Is the preferred scenario setting up a linux box and compiling from source?

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November 08, 2013, 04:03:25 PM
 #3299

Hey fellas. Just downloaded 1.2-beta win32 client from sourceforge and trying to get it up and running but seemingly not finding any peers. Anybody else having this problem? Is the preferred scenario setting up a linux box and compiling from source?
Same problem here. The advice from page 172 helped me; I did the following steps, and after a few minutes was synchronizing blocks with the network:

  • closed primecoin-qt
  • deleted peers.dat from %AppData%\Primecoin
  • created primecoin.conf in that folder, and put this line in it: seednode=primeseed.muuttuja.org
  • loaded primecoin-qt, and after a few moments the Help->Debug Window showed an increasing block count and date

HTH
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November 08, 2013, 08:41:32 PM
 #3300

Hey fellas. Just downloaded 1.2-beta win32 client from sourceforge and trying to get it up and running but seemingly not finding any peers. Anybody else having this problem? Is the preferred scenario setting up a linux box and compiling from source?
Same problem here. The advice from page 172 helped me; I did the following steps, and after a few minutes was synchronizing blocks with the network:

  • closed primecoin-qt
  • deleted peers.dat from %AppData%\Primecoin
  • created primecoin.conf in that folder, and put this line in it: seednode=primeseed.muuttuja.org
  • loaded primecoin-qt, and after a few moments the Help->Debug Window showed an increasing block count and date

HTH


It appears as though it just took it several hours to find a peer. Looks like i've got it now. Next step, try to make a coin or two Smiley

Thanks for the reply

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