[ActiveMining] The Official Active Mining Discussion Thread

[ffssixtynine]

I see the second someone says anything kind of negative it's immediately derided as FUD but super pumping circle jerking is given a free pass.  They're both manipulative and/or just opinions.  Like assholes, everyone's got an opinion. Here's mine:

The main things Ken needs to clear up that haven't been were the why of the new ask walls and how many shares are outstanding . I think I'm starting to get an idea as to why, which was all the shares needed to be released before the end of the month for both old AMC and new Active Mining.  I see that there was the mention of prototype machines, engineering costs, etc etc. But most all investors were under the impression once NREs funding was met there would be no more walls. So thats two reasons: x million shares that need to be all out so the transition from old AMC to ActM could transfer smoothly and unexpected costs coupled with a decreased BTC/USD exchange rate. So even if there still were X Million shares that needed to be issued to the market by the end of the month there should have been a logical next step plan for how those were going to be issued. Perhaps not deciding to issue them in a snap decision that would completely jilt the market.

I think even if there is no board formed right now that Ken should seriously consider running his bright ideas (like weekend ask walls or afternoon post NRE funding ask walls) by a group of trusted tight lipped forum members ( like streets2.0, ffsixtynine, lewicki, etc. ) or even friends IRL before just blurting them out to an incredibly jumpy untrusting market. Now, granted, that might create some insider trading type accusations but I'd rather a few guys with the ability to trade a few shares ahead of the curve be able to sharpen Ken's strategy and PR before bungles of this magnitude happen in the future. "Hey Streets 2.0, I think I'm running a little short on capital and I really want to push this NRE deal through with eASIC. I was thinking I would announce another ask wall of 500,000 shares. Sound good?" "Oooh, man, that would be a bad idea. See, here's a way you could do it...."

I mean we had an ask wall crushed with a million shares eaten overnight and then a full NRE funding announcement and shares are still trading flat to where they were 24 hours ago. In this market with the amount of early adopter bitcoins sloshing around that's a spectacular bungle. I mean lets look at the market we're sitting in: Frickin' Cognitive announces another little Avalon coming on board and sees a 20% intraday gain. Hell, Sandstorm wants to speculate with 100 bitcoins and saw a post IPO 20 fold gain in share price. And here we have a company with a million cash from share sales and $500k in pre- order money with deals on the books with chip manufacturers that make this potentially the next ASICminer and we're trading flat??? .

Sorry for the big quote but I agree completely.

I brought up the subject of requiring a board, and now not in the future. I've also suggested in PM discussions with Ken that someone (who knows what they are doing in this regard, suggestions?) needs to be given the task of setting this up asap. It's a multi million dollar company run by a well meaning guy who clearly doesn't understand ipo's, shareholders, market needs (in particular), and can't do pr/communication.

That's a really precarious position even if the engineering side of the plan is sound.

In the mean time, he needs to discuss and imho get agreement from a select few people on how to deal with remaining shares. We also need a clear post as to the entire share situation. It's clear as mud. Fud. Mud. Hah!

How he arrived at the decision to sell 500k more at 0.0025 at some random time at the weekend I cannot fathom. That finished the market completely and may make them hard to sell as well.

Ken genuinely does not realise he has screwed up the market for his own shares. He has actually damaged his own ipo as a result.

His next shares are worth 10-20% less and will be in less demand than they would have been if he had just made one simple, proper post and planned the price/offering properly. That's a hell of a serious error of judgement.

[sayaz]

So a tentative list of candidates might be:

lewicki
streets 2.0
lolstate - has a habit of pissing off some folks. As for whether or not he is too juvenile isn't a call for me to make
Vbs
ffssixtynine

I also want to add
ArcticWolf
Icebreaker - long time everything both bitcoin and amc
chefborjan - has been around for ages with amc and has good input imo

[ArcticWolf]

So a tentative list of candidates might be:

lewicki
streets 2.0
lolstate - has a habit of pissing off some folks. As for whether or not he is too juvenile isn't a call for me to make
Vbs
ffssixtynine

I want to add ArcticWolf to that as well. Also icebreaker if he still holds an interest in Active Mining.

A stand out choice in my mind would be Vbs.


I don't recognise ffssixtynine all that well, my apologies if you are a regular / long term guy with AM.

Im honoured to get a mention, but Id definitely choose Vbs or streets2.0, especially considering the estimate spreadsheets and the amount of time Vbs has spent on his calculations and on quashing rumours and so forth, and the time streets has spent on his articles and the speculation thread.

[sayaz]

Haha well are we still talking ~7 people here or less?

I agree streets and vbs are highly 'deserving'

[Ashitank]

Should not the board comprise of top share holders?

What if top share holders are speculators ??

[ChefBorjan]

So a tentative list of candidates might be:

lewicki
streets 2.0
lolstate - has a habit of pissing off some folks. As for whether or not he is too juvenile isn't a call for me to make
Vbs
ffssixtynine

I also want to add
ArcticWolf
Icebreaker - long time everything both bitcoin and amc
chefborjan - has been around for ages with amc and has good input imo

I appreciate the mention, I didn't realise anyone was even really taking much notice of me!

I think we need to make sure there is a balance of people on the board if their role is just advisory. I guess in theory its about leaving the technical side of things to Ken, but we ideally need:

• Someone who is used to account balancing
• Someone with experience in IPOs, shares etc
• Someone with experience with the nuances of bitcoin
• someone who is used to communicating with the public

Maybe also a 'lay member' of the community so that the 'experts' on the board don't lose sight of the fact that decisions may be obvious to them but confusing to others.
.
I don't know if I have enough experience for anything other than the communication or lay member role. I think I will bring a decent amount of level headedness and critical thinking to the table, but its important to try and pick board members based on their merits as well rather than just how long they have been on an internet forum. Problem is... how do you tell if anyone is lying about their experiences?

[ffssixtynine]

So a tentative list of candidates might be:

lewicki
streets 2.0
lolstate - has a habit of pissing off some folks. As for whether or not he is too juvenile isn't a call for me to make
Vbs
ffssixtynine

I want to add ArcticWolf to that as well. Also icebreaker if he still holds an interest in Active Mining.

A stand out choice in my mind would be Vbs.

I don't recognise ffssixtynine all that well, my apologies if you are a regular / long term guy with AM.

There's another guy who said he was deeply invested if you scroll back far enough.

I got somewhat burned on the amc offering so ActiveMiner is something I've only been convinced about recently. This is why I'm frustrated at the misstep yesterday. I like things done properly and they haven't been. I'm also not anonymous so can check my background out easily.

Re: lolstate - all I can say is that part of the point of the board is to instill confidence. Juvenile behaviour and taking flame bait is absolutely against this. So lolstate would have to not post the stuff he posted yesterday for example, as supportive as he clearly is. Being a board member is a serious job and comes with significant responsibilities. It is not something you do because you like ActiveMiner, and you can still be helpful and supportive without being on a board, yet without the responsibility.

In the end this is all a moot point. It's completely up to ken and he may well already have a board in mind. I don't really care as long as they do their job properly.

Task 1 is still for ken to agree the core terms with someone he trusts to do the necessary to set this up properly, even if it starts informal (it would need formalising in the near future).

Right now, it's quite clear that a board of 7 people comprising of e.g. those suggested here, who would advise and to on e.g. Share offerings, would likely avoid the problems we are seeing. Ken could still overrule them but to do so would look bad.

My suggestion: Request Street is given this responsibility if he wants it. He puts together a board of eg 7 people, including at least two higher value shareholders.

In the very short term this will be unofficial while plans to make it a firm proposition are worked out.

The board would have regular scheduled meetings, and the chairman of the board (voted for by the board) would speak to Ken on a daily basis.

No share offerings could take place without the boards agreement.

Communication and pr would be handled entirely by the board on Ken's behalf.

All significant expenditure must be discussed with the board, I.e. as part of the long term business plan.

The board will represent both large and small shareholders, and shall act in their interest at all times.

Full bookkeeping by a party other than ken will be required and evaluated by the board on a regular basis, and the board would be responsible for ensuring financials are published in a professional manner.

Confidentiality would be utmost and all board members would be party to a legally binding non-disclosure agreement.

Edit to add: Board members should not be anonymous (at the very least to each other)

The board would be advisory only; Ken could overrule it at any time (at his own risk).

These are just off the cuff starting points. Input from someone who has done this before or who knows a lot more about e.g. Asicminer's board reporting would be eminently sensible here, and of much more value than my thoughts.

[lolstate]

Re: lolstate - all I can say is that part of the point of the board is to instill confidence. Juvenile behaviour and taking flame bait is absolutely against this. So lolstate would have to not post the stuff he posted yesterday for example, as supportive as he clearly is. Being a board member is a serious job and comes with significant responsibilities. It is not something you do because you like ActiveMiner, and you can still be helpful and supportive without being on a board, yet without the responsibility.

I don't think the lolstate persona would be suitable for the board. I second all the others, however.

[bobboooiie]

So a tentative list of candidates might be:

lewicki
streets 2.0
lolstate - has a habit of pissing off some folks. As for whether or not he is too juvenile isn't a call for me to make
Vbs
ffssixtynine

I also want to add
ArcticWolf
Icebreaker - long time everything both bitcoin and amc
chefborjan - has been around for ages with amc and has good input imo

That would be great board meetings, basically everybody jerking each other off. If you want board there isnt any other way than topx (x = what ever number of members CEO wants to have on board) holders of shares

[somestranger]

That would be great board meetings, basically everybody jerking each other off. If you want board there isnt any other way than topx (x = what ever number of members CEO wants to have on board) holders of shares

Any option other than this is simply wrong.

x3

[hf]

Should not the board comprise of top share holders?

What if top share holders are speculators ??

I'm not.

[ChefBorjan]

I think it will be important to incorporate both a few top shareholders as well as some who are not blindingly faithful to AM in the interests of fairness and balance. The 2 or so top shareholders would obviously look out for the interests of the share price, and the more critical members would be able to scrutinise the decision making properly.

But what would be the point of it all if just top shareholders were on board if they had no idea about accounting or other such matters? Sure more heads are better than one, but it still would be possible for slip ups to occur due to a lack of experience. (Genuine question, as I said I'm new to this so just thinking aloud.)

EDIT: Of course, it would be great if the top shareholders did actually fit the bill of 'experienced' persons... problem solved then!

[Ashitank]

Should not the board comprise of top share holders?

What if top share holders are speculators ??

What if they're not???

IF & buts aside , how do you know for sure a top share holder is not a speculator , until unless you have fool proof way of determining this , Top share holder being one of eligibility criteria to pick board member is no good  

[ffssixtynine]

A board comprising of top shareholders would have been an option (the best one) had the share issue been done differently and board seats being a part of that. It's barely practical now, and it would be yet another unplanned thing to do (now go find the high value investors, work out who gets a seat, deal with all that stuff, etc).

However, absolutely the board should include some of those deeply vested in nominal terms. And everyone is speculating, it's just a matter of over how long of a term. Besides, one or two members of a board can't swing it, and it's advisory only. There would also be a formal way to remove a board member if they were disruptive.

This would be a board that has to be hands on and needs to be able to persuade Ken to do some things differently, whilst freeing him up to focus engineering. It also needs to oversee the project, particularly the financials. It is not just to 'report to'.

Edit: John, a board seat is not something to fight over here, it would not be just a case of sitting in and listening. If it's not entirely based on shareholding then even high value investors need to bring something to the table to make them be more appropriate than another high value investor.

Bobboo - if you think that about me then you clearly haven't been reading my posts. Meanwhile, vbs and street have done a great deal sorting the wheat from the chaff.

It's still down to ken, but if he doesn't get something arranged then people here can still organise 'something unofficial' to try and improve the situation and protect shareholders.

[ArcticWolf]

I am not liking what I just noticed @ BTCT

I bought 1791 shares @ 0.002589 as the lowest ask available at that moment right after I purchased the shares , magically 465 shares @ 0.002588  have appeared , As per history tab no body sold their shares , all the orders placed are buy order , WTF is going on , this is not the right way to treat us   

The number of shares outstanding hasnt risen, so those shares werent issued by Ken, they are being sold by another investor.

[ArcticWolf]

But there is no sell order placed ,check history tab of AMC-PT on BTCT  

Anyone with shares can place an ask at any level above bids, not just the issuer. Someone placed an ask at lower than you bought, you just got unlucky with the timing I think.

Unless Im missing something?

[stereotype]

But there is no sell order placed ,check history tab of AMC-PT on BTCT  

Ive checked and double checked, and all i can make out is that people are competing at that price, and the order was added while you refreshed.

[EskimoBob]

To assemble a board of directors you need voting by shareholders. As you all know, public only holds 40% (or is it more, if additional 500K shares are released?) What this means, its that current management (who are they and how much shares each holds?), who owns majority of shares, can vote how ever they want and rest of us can only hold our dicks and hope that current management is sane enough not to rob us all blind and run for the hills.

But, there is still hope, because management answers to board of directors (BOD). BOD is the highest authority in the management and they must answer directly to the shareholders (actually, to the shareholders meeting).

Ya'll need to understand, that this is not kslaughter Co any more. He sold it to his shareholders. Unless he hold 50%+1 or more shares, he is just a self appointed CEO at the moment unless ActiveMining majority shareholders have voted him to run this operation. This is nothing complicated for them because they hold 60%... unless one or more of them decide not to go with the flow. (btw, it's nice if you can publish the meeting memo and voting results) I know, I know, this is not a real world but still, this is the correct way to do it.

On top of that, BOD, CEO and rest of the management must have a contracts with ActiveMining that outlines their areas of responsibility.
You want to be a big-wig board member? You better be sure you can perform and know wtf you are doing. There is enough circle jerking going on around here... LOL

[lolstate]

Final Report - Trip to Springfield

Thanks babefoot!

[matuszed]

Final Report - Trip to Springfield


Introduction - I apologize for the delay.  I have been quite busy this week.  I wrote and rewrote this little report.  Most of it was actually just anecdotes, but I took them out.  Although they don't necessarily have anything to do with ActiveMining, I think they are important in establishing Ken's character.  I didn't realize how inferior a written report is compared to the new style of podcast type interviews until I tried writing one.  I think it would be better overall to hear Ken's voice yourself. Also it's probably impossible to be perfectly objective when analyzing a situation for others.  I do my best, but you should all be capable of making your own decision based on hearing an actual conversation.   On my next visit I will attempt to do something like a podcast.  So let me know what you think.  I'll try to answer any questions as soon as possible.


ActiveMining - The #1 goal of ActiveMining at this time is to obtain the ~$1M for the NRE.  This may come at the cost of some of the initial avalon clone dividends.  As Ken stated he will obtain the funds for the NRE through all of the following:

Our Plans For Shares and the NRE:

When we reach our goal of funding for the NRE from any of the following sources (shares sales, machine sales, chip sales, private funding, mining, loans etc) with a bit of leeway for other expenses, I will make a post here in the thread and then take down the wall immediately.

So you guys need to be aware of the possibility that not all of the initial 6+TH will be mining for dividends. 

Ken also stated he took down the wall before our meeting.  He feels it is more appropriate to "spoon feed" the shares to the market in order to obtain funding due to competition from speculators.

Springfield Underground is up for sale and they also have some undeveloped areas they may expand to.  These developments are both upwards of $15M though, so they are not priorities at this time.  Currently Ken said he has several racks ready to be rented out in their data center.  They are working out the details of powering the racks with respect to the engineering of the avalon clones and fast hash series machines.

If the NRE is successful, Ken said the low volume chips may encounter an initial loss, but time is of the essence in the bitcoin world.  Once full production begins, the prices per chip will decrease significantly.


Kenneth Slaughter - I genuinely enjoyed meeting Ken.  Ken told me he has sold just about everything.  He mentioned selling insurance, cars, suits, and he told me the story of his ISP business.  He had some interesting stories to tell, and he revealed some personal information about himself which he did not have to.  This earned some trust from me as I felt I was actually getting to know him as a person.  Ken shared his admiration for a few of the business men he has looked up to in his life.  He told me of their business philosophies and what they meant to him.  He told me about the lessons they taught him and what he hoped to do with his future businesses.  Two things I liked to hear were bonus vacation pay and employee profit sharing. 

Ken did not seem like to type of man interested in a lavish lifestyle.  He seemed quite conservative and content with what he has.  I was pleased to hear Ken talk about how good his gas mileage is in his Volt.  It's nice to see someone interested in efficiency and maximizing value. 

Ken also mentioned he took some advice from some of the forum members and often seeks council from a few people on specific PR situations that need addressing.  I think it shows good character for someone to accept constructive criticism in an effort to better themselves.  It shows Ken does care about the success of this business.


Future Developments - Ken shared a few interesting plans with me.  He did send off a block eruptor to his engineers to tinker with.  He also told me about an idea for a new type of mining machine for "the masses" as some would put it.  The idea is quite interesting.  And to coincide with the new mining machine, a tv commercial may be in the mix down the road. 

ActiveMining has a lot of potential.  I'm excited to help out with providing information to everyone, and thank you again for the donations.  I very much appreciate it. 

Also I plan to probably visit Springfield again in a few months when there are some new developments.  Ken said he would like to be able to get Springfield Underground access for me, but it may not be possible.  Thanks again everyone.  I had a great trip.

-babefoot

Thanks you so much for doing this BTW.  Just for everyone subsequently reading the NRE funds have been met already.