[PRE-ANN] Stone - DAG Data-Structured Private Cryptocurrency

[fputod]

I  really like the way this project is going. I hope the currently raised funds will make the team grow.
I'll stay tuned and watch with interest.

[BitDragon910]

I'm interested in this project. Waiting to see distribution method. If XRB isnt going to implement privacy then stone will have that corner of the market. Going to need a couple more developers and at least a year to pull something like this off though.

[Churtle]

Sign me onto the list of new accounts excited by this project. I've been following the thread for about and really like the sound of where it's heading. Some of you will be pleased to know that I don't claim to know anything about DAG (or certainly didn't before I stumbled into here).

[dimitriaustralia]

What does the community think about the brand www.iopay.org

[chukaday]

I'm interested in this project. Waiting to see distribution method. If XRB isnt going to implement privacy then stone will have that corner of the market. Going to need a couple more developers and at least a year to pull something like this off though.

Timeline isn't an issue it is whether they can pull it off or not and slowly get it done. If they can then this will be one of the biggest projects in 2018 and it will been built from the ground up from nothing which is sweeter!

[Aluman23]

Does topic starter provide any information about him/his skills?

[zaycc]

Excited for this. I was an early adopter of raiblocks (sub 50 cents) and believe this could be groundbreaking for the privacy coin sector as well.

[Malek17]

guys read this post : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2675475.new#new
to me this sounds the same language used for announcing stone,this guy trying to do a nice project pretend to be innocent he doesn't want an ICO but he wouldn't mind small donations to complete the project sure some gullible people will believe,this guy probably inspired by the donation given to the yet if ever to happen stone project so he's taking his chances sure he will get some donations,completing the project or not that's' another story, sure more guys will pop up here and there with similar stories about nice project pretend to be a nice and innocent they wouldn't want an ICO but wouldn't mind small donations but only small donations they wouldn't want big donations because they are nice and innocent guys who want to complete nice project for the community.
This quote from the guy's post on the other thread:
 (This is not an ask for donations, or an announcement for an ICO. This is purely to state my intentions to complete this project. If there is significant interest, I will allow limited donations. If you donate understand that this is not a promise for returns at a later time, but a donation to further develop and create this project.)

[dimitriaustralia]

http://www.iopay.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/iopay-favicon.png
www.iopay.org

[Watsuji]

In Raiblocks, when there is a fork,  balance-weighted vote is used to determine the outcome through use of representatives.

How would balance-weighted vote work in Stone? cos certain amount of balances will be shielded if zsnarks are used

Requoting as I would definitely donate if you can answer this question.

[ttookk]

If the main discussion is about how to best distribute the tokens, this project has a huge problem.

There is no golden way of solving it, just make a choice and go with it. You can't make everybody happy.

Regarding the snapshot idea: If you make it a fixed number of tokens per address, not based on it's containing value (but with a minimum threshold), this will somewhat mitigate the rich getting richer problem. True, people with a lot of wealth can spilt it up in many different accounts (as can others), but this requires dedication and time being put into it and, if you take BTC, transaction fees make for a nice barrier as well. I don't necessarily have a problem with rich people getting a bigger share of the pie, as long as those people are committed to the project and its success.

[aliceswhiterabbit]

What does the community think about the brand www.iopay.org

I did a little research and couldn't find anything else about them besides the website. Their website comes off a little scammy, tried calling the number on the website; nothing. They claim over 25,000 members of their community but if they had such traction you'd think they have something else put together.

Pulled this from their website too. "You look at ripple surging to number 2 will eventually be number 1 in market cap. Who the fuck is putting money into it 700M the other day? Centralised as fuck also.
Good move by the guy to set up steller but not enough.
Cardano centralised as fuck too. Will surge and become a big player."

Pretty unprofessional and talking like that wouldn't attract anyone. Seems like garbage to me.

[moneroguru]

In Raiblocks, when there is a fork,  balance-weighted vote is used to determine the outcome through use of representatives.

How would balance-weighted vote work in Stone? cos certain amount of balances will be shielded if zsnarks are used

Requoting as I would definitely donate if you can answer this question.

Same.

[dream3]

Oh wow, great project. I legitimately wonder why so many people on the outside are saying bad things about this.

You've raised a lot of money now, I think it would be wise to start showing more stuff.

ps: It is kinda easy if you think about it, to write a post with a few tech words and a good promise, easy untraceable 100k.  

[felixando]

In Raiblocks, when there is a fork,  balance-weighted vote is used to determine the outcome through use of representatives.

How would balance-weighted vote work in Stone? cos certain amount of balances will be shielded if zsnarks are used

Requoting as I would definitely donate if you can answer this question.

From my findings with drafts between the balanced-weighted vote & sk-SNARKs, unfortunately the implementation will not transact in-line in the manner i originally set out to achieve, therefor i have played with the idea of off-chain addresses, t-addresses (Stone) for standard transactions & z-addresses (zStone), with an exact exchange between paired wallets for a private untraceable transaction. My idea further extends to to have Stodes (Nodes), which act as a direct atomic swap 1:1 with Stone & zStone, anyone would be able to see the the swap 1:1 between the two, but no one would be able to see where you have received the zStone as it was transacted off-chain.

                           OFF-CHAIN
        Bob                    ->           Alice
(zStone) Transactions    ->    (zStone)  Received


                              SWAP
         Alice                    ->            Ted (Node)      ->          Alice
(zStone) Swap 1:1        ->            Receive/Send       ->    (Stone) Received

Alice receives a private transaction from Bob via zStone, Alice now has 100 zStone, Alice now wants standard Stone, she swaps the 100 zStone for Stone 1:1 via a Stone node. The end result is Alice successfully has completed a private transaction with Bob, and swapped back into the base currency, all within the wallet, this method allows the DAG protocol to still function with its representative method.

Apologies in advance for the rough draft schematics, this is not anywhere near complete and is subject to change.

zStone would not be a separate currency and not tradable on an exchange, its simply the channel to achieve completely private transactions, with a swap 1:1 with Stone, they would not be worth anymore or any less.



felixando

[cutecoincollector]

https://i.imgur.com/MWXAmrP.png



Introduction


Stone will be the first DAG (direct acylic graph) data-structured digital currency with private transactions, allowing instant, fee-less anonymous transaction with high scaling (up to 7,000txs per second) Stone will be forked from the RaiBlocks codebase, whilst the chain is not near completion as it currently stands and it just myself who will be working on the project, i do not offer high quality illustrations & impressive marketing, what i do offer, however is highly scalable, private, instant a fee-less transactions, all on a decentralized network once the project is complete



Work Ethics


What i can promise you

• Dedication
• Constant updates
• a finished product
• a quality product delivered in a timely manner

What i cannot promise you

• Exchange listings
• Price increases
• Advertising
• False hype
• An unfinished product, i always complete a project.

This pre-announcement is merely just the beginning of a long path, the stepping stone for a great advance in an already amazing pre-existing technology. I cannot express enough respect Colin and his innovative idea which has solved the blockchain debacle, a incredible amount of work and dedication has gone it to his project and Stone will never discredit his efforts.


Methodology


I've been experimenting with the idea of using zkSNARKs, similar to the tech used in the ZCash cryptocurrency, this will prove to be a challenge since we are no longer using a blockchain, we are using a DAG.


a very short summary, zkSNARKs have 4 main ingredients:


A) Encoding as a polynomial problem


The program that is to be checked is compiled into a quadratic equation of polynomials: t(x) h(x) = w(x) v(x), where the equality holds if and only if the program is computed correctly. The prover wants to convince the verifier that this equality holds.


B) Succinctness by random sampling


The verifier chooses a secret evaluation point s to reduce the problem from multiplying polynomials and verifying polynomial function equality to simple multiplication and equality check on numbers: t(s)h(s) = w(s)v(s)


This reduces both the proof size and the verification time tremendously.


C) Homomorphic encoding / encryption


An encoding/encryption function E is used that has some homomorphic properties (but is not fully homomorphic, something that is not yet practical). This allows the prover to compute E(t(s)), E(h(s)), E(w(s)), E(v(s)) without knowing s, she only knows E(s) and some other helpful encrypted values.


D) Zero Knowledge


The prover permutes the values E(t(s)), E(h(s)), E(w(s)), E(v(s)) by multiplying with a number so that the verifier can still check their correct structure without knowing the actual encoded values.


The very rough idea is that checking t(s)h(s) = w(s)v(s) is identical to checking t(s)h(s) k = w(s)v(s) k for a random secret number k (which is not zero), with the difference that if you are sent only the numbers (t(s)h(s) k) and (w(s)v(s) k), it is impossible to derive t(s)h(s) or w(s)v(s).

(Christian Reitwiessner 2016)



Distribution

One big question which is still left unanswered, and may be for some time, is distribution, I am unsure of how the coin will be distributed at these early stages, but when the time comes i’m positive the community will assist with an efficient, fair solution.



Whilst i do not wish to run a crowdsale, donations are welcome and will go towards my efforts in development. Donators will be noted in a database & published alongside Stone's main announcement, your assistance will not go unnoticed, depending on the distribution method selected as a community, donators may be included as a portion of distribution, we must first select method of distribution and work from there. For now donations should be treated as exactly that, donations.


Bitcoin:  17rta6cBBcacwbjFuWmrCpaPDN3m4jX6et

RaiBlocks: xrb_3my3e88nzaorkhcbho91seniswjz7ksiu1ddkuuu5ue3q8exiian9ikhja4g

Ethereum: 0x4Ce0650EC058449F8b936733b12E945E443EC1bD


If you wish to donate - please send a PM the amount right beforehand so i am able to keep track of transaction ownership in my speadsheet.

Code:

:: DONATORS :: a share will distributed to all donators, as a way of saying thankyou.

hoolio  |  https://etherscan.io/tx/0x8ef0ee17988bcc55f8263d54209a695de008427a2565da112b1247df0c37ad9c
Meatstick  |  https://blockchain.info/tx/fc6e3d5dfa3ad584d36c02f330a1e05adc3fab0e5f017f1b4144e9e270d2a8ae
fallengel  |  https://blockchain.info/tx/520c6cf01b0719380fdb5dc9881ace0474cfc5251206d28e8b57485c0797da2a
tedes  |  https://blockchain.info/tx/e83ea00dda5bc56b456f59475d146113125a262000e24a9dca8798c2c1996385
vsh  |  https://etherscan.io/tx/0x5f6b2da906c116c725e7341a0380ab9f51fac39c831570b8715b70b8c9fdfb3e
rusbus  |  https://etherscan.io/tx/0x30060b45cf09adeda02f9c42fd50479140c628380ee446f75377b86dd344974e
https://etherscan.io/tx/0xa751863c6fc4937fcb8d551ea01ad978005499f97d94abe2b9385a58bb27abec
emberedsword  |  https://raiblocks.net/block/index.php?h=827BE8F22956C11B56925A2AFA87D62140F2371A5482F14C88DF8E7D9FC3BFE6
Elated  |  https://raiblocks.net/block/index.php?h=B9049F25CDC58A8A1EB0A5BE16AB0935B2F42DC737F244597E55F9692A560916
deemcdee  |  https://etherscan.io/tx/0x2dfdbf8fbf3a2f17fdc2564b4f66af1a83e827c944acbd19b720c106bdba0534
Modifeed  |   https://blockchain.info/tx/b9220112713e1d150e54f5d1e5542d608255acaa8ca91ca2fb92787e89a4d770
mohunr  |  https://raiblocks.net/block/index.php?h=39FA5FBEA3E185263762F4962FFDB27595BB8871DA1068AC4F4EAC3FA7E8CF09
vvorobets  |  https://etherscan.io/tx/0xe6fd9be6c0f94e41faaf598227683a67572eba9bd4ca3269b2fb65f290f46dda
Greyfox127  |  https://etherscan.io/tx/0x86d0bb3746e2e627fe742a09eb5531b9676bac39641de088816e1da28a61b0ee
KasaiRyane  |  https://etherscan.io/tx/0x95af89dec1223b58a86d517ca40d12ba72f67b7b00802dc8758ba7d0ddae9faa
benben22  |  https://etherscan.io/tx/0xde86eac7f84bd4d0f69f2751c1e021342d2914c066a4224df1e545306ed2edf4
gringoed  |  https://etherscan.io/tx/0xde20f2eca360c92db1e394865ad99be0260d670f19d177120f9e2af5787e7996
PerfectCoinSeeker  |  https://raiblocks.net/block/index.php?h=BE98BEFE9ED9649313EF5A9D9BD79003651C38E6EC197FF0218471BE5B1EDE83
quad002  |  https://raiblocks.net/block/index.php?h=CFFA532C870C82CC364B8F2C912EF429A778E2A1768EC34B8AE0F4FFD85F13E2
greatk  |  https://etherscan.io/tx/0x2dfdbf8fbf3a2f17fdc2564b4f66af1a83e827c944acbd19b720c106bdba0534
kfe0824  |  https://etherscan.io/tx/0x9bd076280f50de54dfc9a3042f997736d46aae094eb5544bac7abfc4f7db4a9b
mrdaltro  |  https://raiblocks.net/block/index.php?h=820C9868CDFCA05BAF2E46CEDFADADC0C2E5D70A0CB42692AC1081AF6F67A5A9
n_xion  |  https://etherscan.io/tx/0x1e31c4574e4a75f6b2f523b948c0ba990a638ac2daa3944dd8f6925fae99f73c
irfan22in  |  https://blockchain.info/tx/0cb0b6b191940496032d74f10ff8218186b14457ef7ae61c2550bd95f9d5a317
riccardop  |  https://blockchain.info/tx/c0bb46de4e2075385b362c902f4977caba17eab8c9798b35f0ef984c07ddf5e0
geostation  |  https://raiblocks.net/block/index.php?h=A431B6940DE860F867644DAC7FDA3AC9218970A12C8651E8588EA5855D1A961A
LAMNOID  |  https://etherscan.io/tx/0x45d4adde9a53c802e2216492695ec3f807dcd8530f38661aa67909e25d729735
nonconformist  |  https://blockchain.info/tx/8bb58931c8183bf5277fca64233c769fd607a7e3e855c0209446ca5e5d43b5f9
gamblor80  |  https://raiblocks.net/block/index.php?h=820C9868CDFCA05BAF2E46CEDFADADC0C2E5D70A0CB42692AC1081AF6F67A5A9
cached  |  https://blockchain.info/tx/f4ea95f3d16e6e4036a952e42057081f806ebd12912c193636041bb5eca649b8
drkfvr  |  https://blockchain.info/tx/44d221f99ef294643c2389c8d65edbc58c09fee2bcba8dd049a1804053c32b01
prestosays  |  https://blockchain.info/tx/f77d5fbb9223bc2c4408afbbb8cb20077601e8d2aca2d85883151fd32e6ba516
cryptopathshala  |  https://etherscan.io/tx/0xcec075d160072d67751ec85d3308d24bf901dc855b82556bc4457554a153bf52
TheTenIsDog  |  https://etherscan.io/tx/0x2470cb583e51ef6cf7f1b0db3a68b69e33f7bf7a7bd04f4c6abe3e37cec01e68
tyz  |  https://raiblocks.net/block/index.php?h=908E2FDF744B1C79C92553F9674D08A4EB39227A3092579E4B146AEDBBE42A7A
ehrightness  |  https://etherscan.io/tx/0x45b7fcef53983264805b59b2a0f4d227757feb48e468932b25b48ecb1748d350
zenyfomax1  |  https://etherscan.io/tx/0xa7c8708834afb27d38d2e367c07d764c9e65c026ba8650f027d5f75be836bd29
canadapharmer   |  https://raiblocks.net/block/index.php?h=F0092D46F4A0134C9CF96F30B7AB60B5488AB354F3B968C063DD140A6D2580B9
iAmCiaran  |  https://etherscan.io/tx/0x234d876f6e0a5d21606f31f700a6494810fe51ad84fb47aa69d1e901e43e0ef9
snowboard789  |  https://etherscan.io/tx/0xd82d67de628e3932a35de9d0ad8346fdb777cfe44c634daeace6fcedc682bf89
CoinFreedom  |  https://blockchain.info/tx/ab3ce6e7c745eb7105d12e9b6073113956b8f86f3fa23bed3912d1e695c3daa5
talktopab  |  https://blockchain.info/tx/116eea60c70137993f776afe228b1b0c2f7739bca2c2b298d8cbcc994f6fd8f6
Mckonery  |  https://etherscan.io/tx/0xa4f4f9daad6f47a047b8831f52918cae80357beaf5ae0953f32b53fb8fce1842
xibeijan  |  https://blockchain.info/tx/c41114a8d6521e0d3ab0955317151cee6515b3886d5d2b3dd8dbfcabc46c0483
Dauma  |  https://etherscan.io/tx/0x89dd5da2f6185d7007fd544a900162c1fe2e90b8af7e262255d697a843ec4545
aliceswhiterabbit  |  https://etherscan.io/tx/0xf3367798a0b70c10d3380dbbb9d01fda14c3150ff3699cf9a1253138e640f86d
ahhteeth  |  https://etherscan.io/tx/0x8779c9b672c9651a41e42d52015de386035db2be493ca3ea1e5316a33bae42d9
senepa  |  https://etherscan.io/tx/0xbff35481c3e291ad69d4667ad7d69f36863b290cd23ca847c8efe309bdd42824
Everipedia  | https://etherscan.io/tx/0x02b60108339901eb03450b697e44a812b8011ca8dc8b3cf9f527a320ad474894
BrightPastAhead  |  https://etherscan.io/tx/0xbf2eb197aed40439cf94c3c392bb82b85d7b40805567497bf16fdf5c89b3348b
jen729w  |  https://raiblocks.net/block/index.php?h=C7F8A33D1DFAE883DA1A359F54644EE87C783D533D24F94D294B30FB03F1DD02
Roentgenate  |  https://etherscan.io/tx/0x43054271a53787e45f0f42f45d0ef877bba86748121fb358609553a8bcf56e47
gcasamiquela  |  https://raiblocks.net/block/index.php?h=CE96EC6C2D66D21E116D710771BB2A2469501E78EDB08DAF6C889B28BFD84BF8
Rio47  |  https://etherscan.io/tx/0x3861d74bd3b7c8ab84383de37eec8af33e0b34db043acbd808e944af6416f1ff
corncoin  |  https://blockchain.info/tx/1decb2b28e844da67a41adb26fa7ebfaeefdd7b93591582fbf282641c0b4608e
john_locke  |  https://raiblocks.net/block/index.php?h=CFF3F938C1A13F51A63055DE427CBE52ECBD090C6A5E2B6BD7B6E7B2AD80AC65
iwishicouldfly  |  https://blockchain.info/tx/3f52cbf52ddd39530641a148e4476ea9552c5ea7a4dc43bc054a11fd23b084e7
fedmahnkassad  |  https://etherscan.io/tx/0xd866b8f0a65f09a2693042daf4d65224c7bfe329bff791622ec090b4f36af310

Please note, this announcement thread is a pre-ann and is not complete, i will update as the project progresses.


Sources/Credits:
RaiBlocks Announcement: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1381323.0
RaiBlocks whitepaper: https://raiblocks.net/media/RaiBlocks_Whitepaper.pdf
zkSNARKs: https://blog.ethereum.org/2016/12/05/zksnarks-in-a-nutshell/
Bitcoin: https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf

How can I invest or get some of these coins myself?

[rmena123]

Hi felixando,

I had a few questions.

1. Id like to donate, but would like to know how many coins would be in return? How would that be tracked?

2. I know it is still early on, but when were you planning on releasing this?

Thanks!

[moneroguru]

felixando: Any way to make _every_ transaction private?

[snowdaysinged]

felixando: Any way to make _every_ transaction private?

Not felix but I think its impossible to make all transactions private, but potentially possible with optional private transactions.

[moneroguru]

felixando: Any way to make _every_ transaction private?

Not felix but I think its impossible to make all transactions private, but potentially possible with optional private transactions.

Why not?