[ActiveMining] The Official Active Mining Discussion Thread [Self-Moderated]

[minerpart]

Mabsark, people have explained to you why your dates are so off.  The thought that you are correct because Ken didn't instantly set you straight is as ludicrous as your belief that the introduction of Intellihash means the entire process must start again from scratch.

[dolor]

...
Mabs, can you at least try to understand what's going on before posting? The Intellihash update is software (RTL/HDL) level code changing¹. Software level changes are a far cry from a complete chip redesign. So your estimated time frame is not realistic at all.
...

Ken stated the chips were late.  He attributed this to needing to redesign the chips, making them "up to 20% more efficient" (cue 20% Cooler FIM FTW!).  Delayed chip production can not be attributed to software, learn to SHA256 ASIC.  If the mysterious Intellihash is indeed software capable of being run on top of any chips, Ken's explanation of delayed chips is clearly a lie.  Delayed chips is hardware, not software.  Learn to difference.
There's simply too much fail in this thread.

Intellihash is our new trademark for our new Bitcoin mining software which gives up to a 20% increase in hashing speed and has the possibility to increase the speed of our mining machines as the difficulty goes up.  We have had to modify the software in our chips to make it work with our new software.  The chips are going to be late; however, our new Intellihash software could be a game changer for the company.

Changing the RTL code will result in a delay, albeit much less then a full redesign.

It would behoove you to do some research into how KnC got their speed boost. (Hint: it wasn't a chip redesign!)

tl;dr Software.

We have had to modify the software in our chips to make it work with our new software.

The above quote is nonsensical to anyone familiar with SHA256 ASIC design.  Such ASICS have no more software than your CPU, which is none.
Any changes to the RTL code, no matter how minor, require a new mask set & a new foundry run.  Fact.

TL;DR:  Stop repeating nonsense.

I take it you didn't look into KnC?

You are right, there is delays in the process, but it is less than a full redesign - which is all that I stated. If you are just going to ignore test cases like KnC, who DID receive a significant speed boost via software optimization, (some at the hardware level) then we have nothing more to discuss.

KNC's software optimisation did not require silicon redesign.  Ken claims that his Intellihash, while making his chips 20% Cooler^{(tm) Hasbro}, required silicon redesign & was responsible for the delays.  This is nonsense -- either he botched the RTL code or he didn't.  Discovering that the chips could have been 20% Cooler^{(tm) Hasbro} after tapeout is a sure sign of incompetence.  So is delaying the product by months to achieve 20% higher hashrate -- during which time the difficulty climbed over 100%.

None of this makes any sense.  Time to wake up.

[dolor]

Mabsark, people have explained to you why your dates are so off.  The thought that you are correct because Ken didn't instantly set you straight is as ludicrous as your belief that the introduction of Intellihash means the entire process must start again from scratch.

The reason his dates are off is simple -- Ken never gives you any dates.
Ken has learned that his being oblique and engaging in childish wordplay allows his "investors" to spin elaborate fantasies and justifications for verifiable facts -- no product.  Some here imagined that hashrate spikes in November resulted from Ken's testing of 24TH megaminers.  Lulz.

Keep doing what you're doing, and you will be rewarded accordingly.

[VinceSamios]

I'll take his silence on the subject as confirmation that I'm right though.

Woot - by this logic everyone is right about everything. We have magical hashing unicorns. deny it! DENY IT!

[Mabsark]

Mabsark, people have explained to you why your dates are so off.  The thought that you are correct because Ken didn't instantly set you straight is as ludicrous as your belief that the introduction of Intellihash means the entire process must start again from scratch.

The announcement of the 30th of November suggests that sample chips arrived in November. I said sample chips would arrive mid to late November. How are my dates off? They're only off if you can't do basic maths. So, why don't you show us your maths showing my dates to be off? That should be good for a laugh.

Also, I don't believe that the introduction of IntelliHash means the entire process must start from scratch. Until Ken says otherwise though, it's only logical to assume the worst case scenario, which is 9 weeks for new sample chips.

[kleeck]

...
Mabs, can you at least try to understand what's going on before posting? The Intellihash update is software (RTL/HDL) level code changing¹. Software level changes are a far cry from a complete chip redesign. So your estimated time frame is not realistic at all.
...

Ken stated the chips were late.  He attributed this to needing to redesign the chips, making them "up to 20% more efficient" (cue 20% Cooler FIM FTW!).  Delayed chip production can not be attributed to software, learn to SHA256 ASIC.  If the mysterious Intellihash is indeed software capable of being run on top of any chips, Ken's explanation of delayed chips is clearly a lie.  Delayed chips is hardware, not software.  Learn to difference.
There's simply too much fail in this thread.

Intellihash is our new trademark for our new Bitcoin mining software which gives up to a 20% increase in hashing speed and has the possibility to increase the speed of our mining machines as the difficulty goes up.  We have had to modify the software in our chips to make it work with our new software.  The chips are going to be late; however, our new Intellihash software could be a game changer for the company.

Changing the RTL code will result in a delay, albeit much less then a full redesign.

It would behoove you to do some research into how KnC got their speed boost. (Hint: it wasn't a chip redesign!)

tl;dr Software.

We have had to modify the software in our chips to make it work with our new software.

The above quote is nonsensical to anyone familiar with SHA256 ASIC design.  Such ASICS have no more software than your CPU, which is none.
Any changes to the RTL code, no matter how minor, require a new mask set & a new foundry run.  Fact.

TL;DR:  Stop repeating nonsense.

I take it you didn't look into KnC?

You are right, there is delays in the process, but it is less than a full redesign - which is all that I stated. If you are just going to ignore test cases like KnC, who DID receive a significant speed boost via software optimization, (some at the hardware level) then we have nothing more to discuss.

This will probably be my last time engaging you. While you started out reasonable you've ventured into la-la land. I have offered you a case study, and Ken's official description of Intellihash and now you respond with this?

KNC's software optimisation did not require silicon redesign.  

Ken claims that his Intellihash, while making his chips 20% Cooler^{(tm) Hasbro}, required silicon redesign & was responsible for the delays.

I don't believe he did say this. Source?

This is nonsense -- either he botched the RTL code or he didn't.

Part of the prereqs for working with eASIC is getting the RTL code verified by their engineer team. Your follow up questions infer some pretty outlandish critiques of the eASIC engineering team.

Discovering that the chips could have been 20% Cooler^{(tm) Hasbro} after tapeout is a sure sign of incompetence.

Again with the cooling? Do you have a source for this? Also, your argument of incompetence implicates eASIC - again. I don't think eASIC screwed up here. I think Ken saw an opportunity to have better tech and jumped on it. Whether it will be worth it or not remains to be seen.

None of this makes any sense.

You have constructed a complete nonsense scenario, so of course it makes no sense.

Your whole argument here is devoid of any sourcing or facts. You assume that Intellihash is cooling (if this has been stated then I apologize, I don't believe it has, though). You have constructed a textbook argument ad absurdum, which is usually the start of full-on, factless trolling.

[VinceSamios]

• 26th July [source] - Ken estimates two weeks for NRE to be paid (during visit to eASIC)
• 3rd August [source] - Ken returns from his trip to eASIC and the Engineering firm
• 4th August [source] - Ken posts to say he is busy working on eASIC deal
• (sometime before August 28th) [used for guesstimates below] - NRE Funds paid
• 28th August [source] - Ken confirms NRE funds were converted 'some time ago'
• 4th September [source] - eASIC issue press release
• 12th September [source] - Avalon refund confirmed as having been received
• 1st November [original guesstimate] - Chip samples delivered in 9 weeks;
• 30th October [source] - Ken announces gradual hashrate increase including 'other resources' [source]
• 25th November [original guesstimate] - Low-volume chip production starting in 12 weeks, using an e-beam process;
• 30th November [source] - Ken announces delays due to further R&D and unveils Intellihash(tm) technology
• 12th December [source] - Weekly announcement states "we are continuing to bring in all the parts for mass production of our miners"
• 18th December [source] - Weekly announcement states "working with eASIC and our engineers to get our chip and boards in full production"
• 24th December - 9th January [original guesstimate] - Normal volume chip production starting in 16-18 weeks.

* Note: As of 30th November, probable delays have been introduced into the timeline.

It's worth pointing out three things about this list of events. The first is we're guestimating based on the most pessimistic NRE paid date. In truth on the 28th August NRE had been paid "some time ago"

Secondly we are using the maximum estimates generally

Thirdly when it says "normal production in 16-18 weeks" - those weeks are counted from the date of the announcement, which is why they are estimated to occur at their respective intervals.


I'm not going to try to read into it any more - just re-quoting this list with a few clarifications, and I hope we can continue to build on this list.

[minerpart]

If Mabsark is able to look at a picture with six workbenches and sees only two it makes perfect sense that he sees mass production starting in April/May.

[Mabsark]

• 26th July [source] - Ken estimates two weeks for NRE to be paid (during visit to eASIC)
• 3rd August [source] - Ken returns from his trip to eASIC and the Engineering firm
• 4th August [source] - Ken posts to say he is busy working on eASIC deal
• (sometime before August 28th) [used for guesstimates below] - NRE Funds paid
• 28th August [source] - Ken confirms NRE funds were converted 'some time ago'
• 4th September [source] - eASIC issue press release
• 12th September [source] - Avalon refund confirmed as having been received
• 1st November [original guesstimate] - Chip samples delivered in 9 weeks;
• 30th October [source] - Ken announces gradual hashrate increase including 'other resources' [source]
• 25th November [original guesstimate] - Low-volume chip production starting in 12 weeks, using an e-beam process;
• 30th November [source] - Ken announces delays due to further R&D and unveils Intellihash(tm) technology
• 12th December [source] - Weekly announcement states "we are continuing to bring in all the parts for mass production of our miners"
• 18th December [source] - Weekly announcement states "working with eASIC and our engineers to get our chip and boards in full production"
• 24th December - 9th January [original guesstimate] - Normal volume chip production starting in 16-18 weeks.

* Note: As of 30th November, probable delays have been introduced into the timeline.

It's worth pointing out three things about this list of events. The first is we're guestimating based on the most pessimistic NRE paid date. In truth on the 28th August NRE had been paid "some time ago"

Secondly we are using the maximum estimates generally

Thirdly when it says "normal production in 16-18 weeks" - those weeks are counted from the date of the announcement, which is why they are estimated to occur at their respective intervals.


I'm not going to try to read into it any more - just re-quoting this list with a few clarifications, and I hope we can continue to build on this list.

It also needs to be pointed out that those time frames are only for chip production. They still have to be shipped, assembled onto boards, and installed in cases with other components (which are apparently ready and waiting). With Ken's "assembly line" being worse than BFL's, how long do you think that's going to take?

[VinceSamios]

• 26th July [source] - Ken estimates two weeks for NRE to be paid (during visit to eASIC)
• 3rd August [source] - Ken returns from his trip to eASIC and the Engineering firm
• 4th August [source] - Ken posts to say he is busy working on eASIC deal
• (sometime before August 28th) [used for guesstimates below] - NRE Funds paid
• 28th August [source] - Ken confirms NRE funds were converted 'some time ago'
• 4th September [source] - eASIC issue press release
• 12th September [source] - Avalon refund confirmed as having been received
• 1st November [original guesstimate] - Chip samples delivered in 9 weeks;
• 30th October [source] - Ken announces gradual hashrate increase including 'other resources' [source]
• 25th November [original guesstimate] - Low-volume chip production starting in 12 weeks, using an e-beam process;
• 30th November [source] - Ken announces delays due to further R&D and unveils Intellihash(tm) technology
• 12th December [source] - Weekly announcement states "we are continuing to bring in all the parts for mass production of our miners"
• 18th December [source] - Weekly announcement states "working with eASIC and our engineers to get our chip and boards in full production"
• 24th December - 9th January [original guesstimate] - Normal volume chip production starting in 16-18 weeks.

* Note: As of 30th November, probable delays have been introduced into the timeline.

It's worth pointing out three things about this list of events. The first is we're guestimating based on the most pessimistic NRE paid date. In truth on the 28th August NRE had been paid "some time ago"

Secondly we are using the maximum estimates generally

Thirdly when it says "normal production in 16-18 weeks" - those weeks are counted from the date of the announcement, which is why they are estimated to occur at their respective intervals.


I'm not going to try to read into it any more - just re-quoting this list with a few clarifications, and I hope we can continue to build on this list.

It also needs to be pointed out that those time frames are only for chip production. They still have to be shipped, assembled onto boards, and installed in cases with other components (which are apparently ready and waiting). With Ken's "assembly line" being worse than BFL's, how long do you think that's going to take?

I think donkeys with screwdrivers are about the only assembly line which could be considered worse than BFL's...

[Entropy-uc]

Interesting factoid for the day. 200nm is exactly 1 billions of a meter

Sorry, but this is too classic to not be preserved.  It shows exactly how bad you have to be at math to invest in this disaster.

Nano is a SI scalar for units of measure.  It is 10^-9 or 1 billionth.

That is,  1 nm equals exactly 1 billionth of a meter.

[JoTheKhan]

Interesting factoid for the day. 200nm is exactly 1 billions of a meter

Sorry, but this is too classic to not be preserved.  It shows exactly how bad you have to be at math to invest in this disaster.

Nano is a SI scalar for units of measure.  It is 10^-9 or 1 billionth.

That is,  1 nm equals exactly 1 billionth of a meter.

God damn your so smart. I should take all my investing advice from you.

So guys, do we think we will get an update from Ken about shares before or after the New Year Starts?

[Mabsark]

• 26th July [source] - Ken estimates two weeks for NRE to be paid (during visit to eASIC)
• 3rd August [source] - Ken returns from his trip to eASIC and the Engineering firm
• 4th August [source] - Ken posts to say he is busy working on eASIC deal
• (sometime before August 28th) [used for guesstimates below] - NRE Funds paid
• 28th August [source] - Ken confirms NRE funds were converted 'some time ago'
• 4th September [source] - eASIC issue press release
• 12th September [source] - Avalon refund confirmed as having been received
• 1st November [original guesstimate] - Chip samples delivered in 9 weeks;
• 30th October [source] - Ken announces gradual hashrate increase including 'other resources' [source]
• 25th November [original guesstimate] - Low-volume chip production starting in 12 weeks, using an e-beam process;
• 30th November [source] - Ken announces delays due to further R&D and unveils Intellihash(tm) technology
• 12th December [source] - Weekly announcement states "we are continuing to bring in all the parts for mass production of our miners"
• 18th December [source] - Weekly announcement states "working with eASIC and our engineers to get our chip and boards in full production"
• 24th December - 9th January [original guesstimate] - Normal volume chip production starting in 16-18 weeks.

* Note: As of 30th November, probable delays have been introduced into the timeline.

It's worth pointing out three things about this list of events. The first is we're guestimating based on the most pessimistic NRE paid date. In truth on the 28th August NRE had been paid "some time ago"

Secondly we are using the maximum estimates generally

Thirdly when it says "normal production in 16-18 weeks" - those weeks are counted from the date of the announcement, which is why they are estimated to occur at their respective intervals.


I'm not going to try to read into it any more - just re-quoting this list with a few clarifications, and I hope we can continue to build on this list.

It also needs to be pointed out that those time frames are only for chip production. They still have to be shipped, assembled onto boards, and installed in cases with other components (which are apparently ready and waiting). With Ken's "assembly line" being worse than BFL's, how long do you think that's going to take?

I think donkeys with screwdrivers are about the only assembly line which could be considered worse than BFL's...

You also thought that "200 nm equals exactly 1 billionth of a meter." You were wrong on both counts.

[Bargraphics]

Interesting factoid for the day. 200nm is exactly 1 billions of a meter

Sorry, but this is too classic to not be preserved.  It shows exactly how bad you have to be at math to invest in this disaster.

Nano is a SI scalar for units of measure.  It is 10^-9 or 1 billionth.

That is,  1 nm equals exactly 1 billionth of a meter.

God damn your so smart. I should take all my investing advice from you.

So guys, do we think we will get an update from Ken about shares before or after the New Year Starts?

:-)

Well, I made a little over 1800 BTC on my investments this year, so you could do worse.

What do you have to prove to us? lol, by you simply bragging about something you likely don't even have at this moment you actually make yourself look like a fool.

Let's see the address and a signed message

[Bargraphics]

I really don't care if you believe me or not.

Great then we have an understanding,

No one cares about you or your advice so please move along.

[minerpart]

dolor - there is no way you are Eastern European with that level of written English.
Let's play a game. I'll start.

dolor = Mr LorenzoMoney
thepostman = VE
reloaded = crumbs
Mabsark = Mabsark

[kleeck]

...
Your whole argument here is devoid of any sourcing or facts. You assume that Intellihash is cooling (if this has been stated then I apologize, I don't believe it has, though). You have constructed a textbook argument ad absurdum, which is usually the start of full-on, factless trolling.

Since sarcasm and pop culture references don't go over well here, let me explain:

"20% Cooler" is a catchphrase of Rainbow Dash, a Hasbro product.  Hence the  "(TM) Hasbro."
To put things in context ("...and this is why it's funny, let me explain how so's u can laugh"), a blue and rainbow-colored pony asks for a dress that's "20% cooler."  As you might suspect, this leaves the dressmaker rather perplexed -- knowing that better is expected, but???  What does the blue pony mean?

Ken has left you in a similar predicament with Intellihash.  It is supposed to make everything 20% better, but how?  Mystery.

So no need to apologize -- Ken has intentionally left you guessing exactly how this software, which he claims could run on any hashing ASIC, necessitated redesign of his silicon.  That makes no sense.
And how a change in software would delay the production of silicon -- another chunk of nonsense.

I apologize for trying to bring a bit of humor into this fiasco, but we Eastern Europeans tend to rely on gallows humor when dealing with cruel, insurmountable problems.  At this stage of the game, gallows humor seems appropriate.

Oh, excellent! So I'm confirmed in your complete and utter trolling. You have no real argument. Here I thought I had someone to actually discuss real things with.

I would say I'm disappointed, but I've been around too long at this point. If I don't response please understand that it's because you're ignored like so many others that thought they could merge discussing an investment with providing humor and inevitably ended up with not doing either.

"You are awarded no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."

[R_Lem]

dolor - there is no way you are Eastern European with that level of written English.
Let's play a game. I'll start.

dolor = Mr LorenzoMoney
thepostman = VE
reloaded = crumbs
Mabsark = Mabsark

I'm going with
dolor =  crumbs
thepostman = VE
reloaded = VE
Mabsark = Mabsark

[PurpleTentacle]

Hey dolor/crumbs, maybe you should spend your time on something like this: https://www.odesk.com/o/jobs/browse/c/design-multimedia/st/0/?q=photoshop

[stenkross]

dolor - there is no way you are Eastern European with that level of written English.
Let's play a game. I'll start.

dolor = Mr LorenzoMoney
thepostman = VE
reloaded = crumbs
Mabsark = Mabsark

I'm going with
dolor =  crumbs
thepostman = VE
reloaded = VE
Mabsark = Mabsark

Agreed on dolor =crumbs. The 'lulz' gave him away.