[ActiveMining] The Official Active Mining Discussion Thread [Self-Moderated]

[wasubii]

By the time ActM has miners, their chips will be about as good as AM's are now - pretty fucking useless.

QFMFT

[VinceSamios]

By the time ActM has miners, their chips will be about as good as AM's are now - pretty fucking useless.

QFMFT

Actually about $4-8billion needs to be spent on mining hardware at current BTC prices before 28nm chips will be obsolete....

[ffssixtynine]

@Ffss Thank you, so this intelihash has been sucking time away from our main goals since back when you guys were around?

It was being worked on back then but I can't say how much time it took. Can't say whether it delayed anything much but it would have required some software changes and it was all on Ken to do so. Once I sussed what it was he was doing, we tried to talk him out of it, or at least to wait until the next hardware iteration & hiring in specialists. It was valid R & D, to a point anyway, but the timing was off.

I wouldn't expect it to have resulted in the current delay but neither did I consider it a good spend of the CEO's time during that key period. I don't mind saying that Ken then told us we were backward thinking and weren't innovators. We felt it got a little unpleasant. I still stand by what we said about the tech. Happy to eat humble pie if we were wrong but there are implications which Ken never answered, even if it was economical.

Anyway, that didn't do a lot for morale, nor did changing key pricing (badly IMHO) without even a word to us or the endless web issues. Our position was untenable and we weren't going to be able to help any further since by then it was all down to production. I don't think the advisors ever disagreed over anything, but we did disagree a lot with Ken's approach and were disappointed by problems cropping up daily that we ended up trying to fix. It was a game of whack-a-mole.

Ken didn't and doesn't need an advisory board, he needs a management team with real power and full knowledge of the company.

In the end, the real problem is one man being responsible for so much and, in my opinion, not realising his limitations. You need a strong management team and VMC/ActM don't have one IMHO. Ken said he'd like to have more people but finding the right people was his problem. It's a fair point but then, having run a business myself, it's the job of the CEO to put the management team together.

I have always respected Ken for what he's trying to do but it's the end result that matters. We're in January now and too little has changed. I often found that shareholders were too fussy and asked for far too much and too quickly. At this stage, however, I feel a lot more openness is required. I don't see that there is a lot to lose.

[VolanicEruptor]

Cointerra hired on their website.  It's not hard to find people who know what they're doing.  There are ASIC experts out there, and a lot of them even visit bitcointalk.  If I was selling rocket ships and didn't know how to build one, I would start hiring.  I'm sure he knows how to screen through resumes, right?

[Vigil]

Cointerra hired on their website.  It's not hard to find people who know what they're doing.  There are ASIC experts out there, and a lot of them even visit bitcointalk.  If I was selling rocket ships and didn't know how to build one, I would start hiring.  I'm sure he knows how to screen through resumes, right?

Exactly, Ken knew whether or not he could develop an RTL. It is not that difficult once you raise funds to hire a small team to pull-off a workable RTL and board. This should have been a done deal.

[Minor Miner]

At the current progression of difficulty, mining hardware makes more in the first 2 months of operation than it will make in its remaining life.

So your just 2 months delay (more likely 6 months) cuts the value of the operation by about 75%.  Cash flow drops 50% a month.

My batch II avalons made about 40% profit in BTC terms.  Batch III, delivered one month later, will never break even.

It is not nice to bring math to this fantasy fest.  It is far more fun to dream that "Ken" will dream up a brilliant plan and everyone will get rich.   "Ken", a man with over 6 million dollars in pre-order money plus all the millions in investor funds that could not hire people over the last months to make an eASIC chip and get it on a board (a process with a total NRE of around $1.5M including board design)
"Ken".   Has anyone thoroughly researched who Ken is and where the money is?

[VolanicEruptor]

Cointerra hired on their website.  It's not hard to find people who know what they're doing.  There are ASIC experts out there, and a lot of them even visit bitcointalk.  If I was selling rocket ships and didn't know how to build one, I would start hiring.  I'm sure he knows how to screen through resumes, right?

Exactly, Ken knew whether or not he could develop an RTL. It is not that difficult once you raise funds to hire a small team to pull-off a workable RTL and board. This should have been a done deal.

+99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999

[minerpart]

At the current progression of difficulty, mining hardware makes more in the first 2 months of operation than it will make in its remaining life.
So your just 2 months delay (more likely 6 months) cuts the value of the operation by about 75%.  Cash flow drops 50% a month.

You are not getting the central point which I tagged as being 'the central point':

 'if the ACtM farm is able to grow month on month to either meet or exceed global hash increases in essence it does not matter if it opens Dec 2013 or March 2014. BTC could be being mined profitably by ACtM for the next 10 years. A 3 month delay represents a tiny percentage point of lost profit over that extended time.'

[chsados]

Comment From The CEO

How I see us going forward is we will get our chip and boards into production as soon as possible.  Active Mining is in one of the best positions to take advantage of the Bitcoin network.  Once we have our chips and boards in production this year we will be one of only two companies in the world which manufactures Bitcoin mining hardware and also mines.  With this combination we have unlimited availability to bitcoin mining hardware only limited by our resources.  What I see in the future is bitcoin's exchange rate for USD going to over $10,000 in the next year.  If this happens Active Mining with its own chip, our current resources which will be increasing with the exchange rate, and eASIC as our partner will put us in an excellent position to dominate our market.  Intellihash will just be an added boost should it turn out to be a game changer.

Kenneth E. Slaughter, CEO/CTO

LOL

[ldrgn]

Can anyone say bASIC 2.0.

I had originally marked this up as bASIC 2.0 but when I saw the contract with eASIC I upgraded them to BFL.  I have now learned my lesson - never doubt the incompetence of Bitcoiners.

BTW, am I 4 for 4 on my checklist?  The first point maybe not (sounds like he did some coding) but the large amount of engineering work he hasn't done makes the point more true than false.  IMO.

edit: also interesting to see all the names which no longer grace this thread...

[runam0k]

"this year"

I never thought that *not* being able to trade shares would be a silver lining.

[funkymunky]

Weekly Update: 1/8/13

Comment From The CEO

How I see us going forward is we will get our chip and boards into production as soon as possible.  Active Mining is in one of the best positions to take advantage of the Bitcoin network.  Once we have our chips and boards in production this year we will be one of only two companies in the world which manufactures Bitcoin mining hardware and also mines.  With this combination we have unlimited availability to bitcoin mining hardware only limited by our resources.  What I see in the future is bitcoin's exchange rate for USD going to over $10,000 in the next year.  If this happens Active Mining with its own chip, our current resources which will be increasing with the exchange rate, and eASIC as our partner will put us in an excellent position to dominate our market.  Intellihash will just be an added boost should it turn out to be a game changer.

Kenneth E. Slaughter, CEO/CTO

This update has cause quite a stir to put it mildly.
In this instance I strongly believe that we're entitled to a more in depth update - even a Q&A session on IRC would help.

There is a lot not making sense at the minute such as products ships, however the update indicates that this could not be possible.


I've also bolded a statement above specifically due to the words "should it turn".
We were previously told that the delays incurred are due to Intellihash and this would be a game changer otherwise there is no logically reason to delay things for such a possibility is there?


This is definitely not the update I wanted to hear...

[Vigil]

Mass hysteria.  Ken needs to come out and do a proper Q&A rather than a drive by.  I do think he is handling the shares appropriately though...waiting for Colored Coins is the right thing to do.  That being said I still have questions that need to be answered:

1)  What exactly was shipped out to customers a few weeks ago?  Why hasn't this been explained?  Sketchy.
2)  What is the current state of progress on chips?  You've got to at least have some sort of ballpark ETA.  How about a basic board design completion ETA?  Ballpark!
3)  Please refrain from talking about the price of bitcoin in relation to the company...that is pure speculation and not a strong basis for the company.  It would be great if BTC made it to $10,000 this year but we can't bank on that.
4)  Did we face delays because Intellihash is being incorporated or is it because the boards weren't designed properly to begin with?

Thank you.

Perhaps, if this colored coins thing works out, ActM shares will be able to be traded as collectors items as the first colored coin asset. Then we will all be rich.

But with the rest... that is just it. You know absolutely nothing because there is no way to arrange the pieces of the story which we have been given such that it makes sense.

eASIC had to have delivered chips... why can't we see a picture of those?

[VinceSamios]

Mass hysteria.  Ken needs to come out and do a proper Q&A rather than a drive by.  I do think he is handling the shares appropriately though...waiting for Colored Coins is the right thing to do.  That being said I still have questions that need to be answered:

1)  What exactly was shipped out to customers a few weeks ago?  Why hasn't this been explained?  Sketchy.
2)  What is the current state of progress on chips?  You've got to at least have some sort of ballpark ETA.  How about a basic board design completion ETA?  Ballpark!
3)  Please refrain from talking about the price of bitcoin in relation to the company...that is pure speculation and not a strong basis for the company.  It would be great if BTC made it to $10,000 this year but we can't bank on that.
4)  Did we face delays because Intellihash is being incorporated or is it because the boards weren't designed properly to begin with?

Thank you.

Again if you could please check if your questions are already on the list, and if not add them:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:VinceSamios#Questions_for_Ken

Please make sure to sign your questions, just add "~~~~" after your question.

[Minor Miner]

Mass hysteria.  Ken needs to come out and do a proper Q&A rather than a drive by.  I do think he is handling the shares appropriately though...waiting for Colored Coins is the right thing to do.  That being said I still have questions that need to be answered:
1)  What exactly was shipped out to customers a few weeks ago?  Why hasn't this been explained?  Sketchy.
2)  What is the current state of progress on chips?  You've got to at least have some sort of ballpark ETA.  How about a basic board design completion ETA?  Ballpark!
3)  Please refrain from talking about the price of bitcoin in relation to the company...that is pure speculation and not a strong basis for the company.  It would be great if BTC made it to $10,000 this year but we can't bank on that.
4)  Did we face delays because Intellihash is being incorporated or is it because the boards weren't designed properly to begin with?
Thank you.

1.   If something was shipped you would have people posting and starting threads for help debugging, overclocking etc.   I think that should answer your question.
2.   A large group of you guys needs to demand this answer from eASIC.  It was your money and you have the right to know.
3.  Good point, you all could have just held your coin yourself and avoid having to ask where it is every week.
4.  Intellihash?  Really?  No one would believe anyone would slow ANYTHING down for even a week in a market where difficulty moves 100% a month for a 20% gain.   Why does this keep coming up.

The time has come for you guys to start acting like men and find out how much money you can salvage from this.   Begging for answers when you are the BOSS and the financier is pathetic. 

[Vigil]

The time has come for you guys to start acting like men and find out how much money you can salvage from this.   Begging for answers when you are the BOSS and the financier is pathetic. 

yes. But there are the tidal wave of shills and half-shills who are going to come in here and on IRC and convince everyone that that route is useless or to wait it out.

[SoylentCreek]

I'm sorry, but at this point I have to assume that my investment is gone.  This update was riddled with so many contradictions, that I cannot help but think that Ken is just treading water at this point.

On the matter of when and where we can trade shares:

As soon as we get time to finish the verification interface; however, our core business comes first and working on Intellihash.

Interesting.  I remember being told weeks ago that this process would be done within a week.  Sounds to me like Ken is quickly becoming aware of the bloodbath it will be the moment trading goes live, and he is holding our shares hostage to delay the inevitable.

On where we are currently at from a development standpoint:

Our engineers are still designing our board. We had to change our engineering firm, and
learn a few lessons about hiring an engineer firm.  We don't have a date at this time.

So basically, we are at square one, yes?  If a new engineering firm was brought in because the original firm was a collosal fuck up, why are we just now hearing about it?  Secondly, as of 1/1/2014, you guys were "[assembling] our miners for quick delivery."  Err... How have you been assembling miners if there is litterally nothing readily avaiable to go into them.  Oh!  You managed to put a power supply in a case.  Wonderful!  I guess we are well on our way then.

On what he anticipates the hash rate to be by the end of Q1:

Due to our inexperience with design, we have had a few set backs; however, we have hired
the most competent RTL design team to make sure that when we spin up our chip it will work.  They are
very competent at Low-Power and getting the most speed from the chip.

Uhh... The question was not how awesome the RTL design team was, it was "What do you estimate the ActM hashrate be at the end of January, February and March?" So basically, no hashing can be expected until after March, yes?  

What I see in the future is Bitcoin's exchange rate for USD going to over $10,000 in the next year.

Oh, so you are willing to go on record and pull an arbitrary Bitcoin valuation out of your ass, but you cannot give us a goddamn estimate of when we will be in full production, or when we can begin trading OUR shares.

[Vigil]

What I see in the future is Bitcoin's exchange rate for USD going to over $10,000 in the next year.

Oh, so you are willing to go on record and pull an arbitrary Bitcoin valuation out of your ass, but you cannot give us a goddamn estimate of when we will be in full production, or when we can begin trading OUR shares.

What he is saying here is: "Unless bitcoin value goes to $10,000 we will not be in a very good position to make this work."

[stereotype]

What I see in the future is Bitcoin's exchange rate for USD going to over $10,000 in the next year.

Oh, so you are willing to go on record and pull an arbitrary Bitcoin valuation out of your ass, but you cannot give us a goddamn estimate of when we will be in full production, or when we can begin trading OUR shares.

What he is saying here is: "Unless bitcoin value goes to $10,000 we will not be in a very good position to make this work."

No he means, dont invest in mining companies. Just buy and hold BTC and save yourself the feeling of failure.

[stereotype]

So who thinks the shareholders would have been informed of a few fundamental 'issues', if Bargraphics wasn't visiting?

Breif visit, me thinks.