[ActiveMining] The Official Active Mining Discussion Thread [Self-Moderated]

[minerpart]

Is that simple enough for you slaughter?

lol - I've never been to the US and don't intend visiting soon, so unless extraordinary rendition is still practised and the actors have very bad eyesight I think I'm quite safe.

[Minor Miner]

Could you share how you come up with a value TODAY of $40M?  Claiming future sales, or mining revenue that don't exist now, and may never exist doesn't cut it.  For today's valuation the only thing you could do is estimate the cost to replicate what Ken has that might turn into those sales or revenue.  And my calculations put that well under $1M.

I'd love to see some real numbers that you use to rationalize your valuation.  I understand that it is difficult because Ken has failed to produce any credible financial statements, but I am curious about the bull case.  

You don't understand the concept of share issues if you think future earnings are not priced in to security value. Future earnings might not cut it for you but for Wall Street they do. Maybe Wall Street are wrong?
Your calculation, apart from being based on a false premise, is a bit clear of the mark considering we have several million in liquid assests.
I could quote you some real numbers that valued Sony at zero in 2012. It was making an annual loss for four years. Did share price reflect that loss of earnings  - yes. Did share price drop to reflect a value of negative 457Billion Yen? errr no.

I spent 8 years on wall street, why don't you explain it to me?   I will try and keep up.
What specific cash are you talking about?   Since you are calling it a Liquid Asset you cannot be referring to pre-orders since those are actually on your balance sheet as liabilities (it is not your money), I assume you are referring to the IPO proceeds.   Whatever is left of them is an asset (one that is declining though) and would be valued as such.   If you have masks completed (doubtful at this point) that would be worth around $550,000 until they are worth zero.    If you do not, then you actually have far less cash then you can imagine.
Seriously, Slaughter you need help.   Start asking for it before you end up in prison.

[minerpart]

I spent 8 years on wall street,

What was your job title?

[MrTeal]

when you wake up and open your eyes you'll notice that in order to recover 106btc, 10600 must be sold at 0.01 Actm is trading for what.. 2 weeks and only 40 shares sold (probably to ken himself) since 14.01 nobody has bought a single share! where do you think this is going.. when do you think investors will be able to trade their shares..july..november..?.I would say never

Buying shares at 0.01 values this company at $100M US dollars. That is $100M for:

- 6 85 Gh/s Avalons - worth perhaps $3600 TOTAL
- a report of 55 nm mask purchased - market value ~$300k
- 28 nm easic design that obviously failed and had to be scrapped
- A CEO that intentionally deceived investors into believing functional miners were shipped in November
- No balance sheets, no cashflow statements, and no evidence of an ability to perform in the future

As I have said before buying shares at 0.00001 would be a plausible gamble.  But still one with a likely outcome of 100% losses.

Actually there are 25M shares, 10M is just the public share number. A 0.01 share price would value it closer to a quarter billion USD.

[Entropy-uc]

Could you share how you come up with a value TODAY of $40M?  Claiming future sales, or mining revenue that don't exist now, and may never exist doesn't cut it.  For today's valuation the only thing you could do is estimate the cost to replicate what Ken has that might turn into those sales or revenue.  And my calculations put that well under $1M.

I'd love to see some real numbers that you use to rationalize your valuation.  I understand that it is difficult because Ken has failed to produce any credible financial statements, but I am curious about the bull case.  

You don't understand the concept of share issues if you think future earnings are not priced in to security value. Future earnings might not cut it for you but for Wall Street they do. Maybe Wall Street are wrong?

Your calculation, apart from being based on a false premise, is a bit clear of the mark considering we have several million in liquid assests.

I could quote you some real numbers that valued Sony at zero in 2012. It was making an annual loss for four years. Did share price reflect that loss of earnings  - yes. Did share price drop to reflect a value of negative 457Billion Yen? errr no.

Of course not.  Sony had assets with real sale value in the market.  That is called book value and it usually acts as a floor for stock prices.  Shares do trade under 1.0x book value, especially in cases where a company has fallen behind their competition or management is not trusted.  Since Ken has failed to produce any books it's very hard to estimate book value for this mess.  But I took a reasonable stab at it, which gives you 0.00001 for your shares.

You seem to think the stock should trade today as if it is next year and Ken has succeeded in every aspect of your fantasy.  He has a working 28 nm miner which has no competition so it's selling like hotcakes.  Bitcoin is still extremely valuable, and Ken has built a 10 MW mining factory that has more than 1% of the network.

With all that, the stock might be worth 0.004.  But where is the profit for the poor bastards that buy it today at your fantasy price?  Where is their reward for taking the spectacular risk that any of those miraculous things don't occur and they lose money?

I was hoping for a rational discussion, but I see that it is still beyond the capacity of posters here.

[minerpart]

Actually there are 25M shares, 10M is just the public share number. A 0.01 share price would value it closer to a quarter billion USD.

If you are using Dividend Yield as the core valuer of recieving shares you can discount the 15Mill private shares as they are not recieving any dividend. And they will not recieve any dividend until 25-50Mill USD has been paid out to investors. The full 'market cap' figure is thus not reflective of investor value. Shareholders invest for capital gains and dividend payout so the 15Mill are irrelevant until the guaranteed 0.0025 BTC per public share is paid out. At that time there will be a revaluation by the market.

[mainline]

But the three benches are surely worth something?  If the benches could be sold at a profit, the outlook becomes much more promising.

[minerpart]

There are many shareholders who want to have sensible discussions on here about their investment. So why don't you people make space for that?

[mainline]

There are many shareholders who want to have sensible discussions on here about their investment. So why don't you people make space for that?

I have faith that abovementioned benches belong to Ken.  Everything else is pure conjecture and empty promises.

[Minor Miner]

Actually there are 25M shares, 10M is just the public share number. A 0.01 share price would value it closer to a quarter billion USD.

If you are using Dividend Yield as the core valuer of recieving shares you can discount the 15Mill private shares as they are not recieving any dividend. And they will not recieve any dividend until 25-50Mill USD has been paid out to investors. The full 'market cap' figure is thus not reflective of investor value. Shareholders invest for capital gains and dividend payout so the 15Mill are irrelevant until the guaranteed 0.0025 BTC per public share is paid out. At that time there will be a revaluation by the market.

Slaughter, this is incorrect.
You cannot use "dividend yield" to value anything unless you take into account the residual value of the company.   Surely you know that and are not just putting out false information to investors?   That pushes you closer to the Prison scenario as your future "exit" from this venture.
Although, no one will every see the first $25M in dividends (there is no credible model that gets revenue of this company to the point where they could have free cash of $25M - just think what the revenue needed to be to produce that), you would still need to use the residual share value to figure out the value of the stock.
When you have an underlying with a questionable future value and an event that cause massive dilution, you cannot compare it to a company that does not match its condition.

[zumzero]

I spent 8 years on wall street, why don't you explain it to me?   I will try and keep up.
What specific cash are you talking about?   Since you are calling it a Liquid Asset you cannot be referring to pre-orders since those are actually on your balance sheet as liabilities (it is not your money), I assume you are referring to the IPO proceeds.   Whatever is left of them is an asset (one that is declining though) and would be valued as such.   If you have masks completed (doubtful at this point) that would be worth around $550,000 until they are worth zero.    If you do not, then you actually have far less cash then you can imagine.
Seriously, Slaughter you need help.   Start asking for it before you end up in prison.

You spent eight years on the Yellow Brick Road if you think minerpart is a Slaughter.  minerpart is a British national you silly billy.

As for your FUD, it takes no skill whatsoever to bark out a couple of US Federal agencies but really you know as well as anyone that Ken is an honest man, working as hard as he can to realise his American Dream and make us shareholders successful.  You are nothing but a little man hiding behind a big voice.  You are the Wizard of Oz. God bless you.

[kleeck]

...
Seriously, Slaughter you need help.   Start asking for it before you end up in prison.

I'm sure you could help Ludvig Öberg (aka DeaDTerra) and his team figure out to what extent they're violating securities regulations in Sweden, China, USA and England simultaneously. I'm sure you're aware that they're using the exact same method for listing their operation, Icedrill (which you appear to be a shareholder of), as VMC is. The small difference is that instead of listing in Belize as Ken Slaughter did they are listed in the British Virgin Isles, even though the securities owners and operators are in Sweden (Mr. Öberg), USA (Mr. Skrodenis), China (Mr. Ng, and Mr. Shin), and England (Mr. Rooyen, and Mr. Vorster) - each violating Security Regulation Laws in their respective country. Oh, and as a bonus, the addition of Mr. Skrodenis, who is the VP of Marketing for Hashfast AND a part owner of DigiMex, the parent and listing company of Icedrill, introduces HashFast into the illegalities as well. What a debacle that is!

Yes, I much think your great financial and regulatory mind would be put to better use over in your home thread.

Cheers! 

[wonker]

Lots of fudsters are coming out of their holes now as its maybe only some days to start trading shares again...

[eiprol]

Could anyone please update me regarding the status of shares? Last I heard was that I should transfer them from Bitfunder to KEN, so I did... but Haven't done anything since then, and just wanted to know if I've missed some importante info

[kleeck]

Could anyone please update me regarding the status of shares? Last I heard was that I should transfer them from Bitfunder to KEN, so I did... but Haven't done anything since then, and just wanted to know if I've missed some importante info

Ken recently said it was his top priority to get shares trading. I expect it to happen this week.

Weekly Update 1/21/14

Edit: Getting trading up and running is now my number one mission.

[eiprol]

Could anyone please update me regarding the status of shares? Last I heard was that I should transfer them from Bitfunder to KEN, so I did... but Haven't done anything since then, and just wanted to know if I've missed some importante info

Ken recently said it was his top priority to get shares trading. I expect it to happen this week.

Thanks, I thought that I had read it already anywere (didn't remember), but anyway, should we register on any specific exchange, or nothing more is known by now?

[zumzero]

Our shares are not trading yet but soon will be.

An account will be created for you on the trading platform Crypto-trade, not to be confused with Cryptostocks.

This is expected to happen in only a matter of days but be sure to tune back in on Wednesday around 2345hrs GMT and look for Ken's 'Weekly Update' for more information.

You will need access to the email address you used in Bitfunder (expect to be contacted through that) as well as the public address from Bitfunder that you would have given to receive dividends.  To prove ownership of your shares you will need to be able to 'sign a message' from that public address when the time comes.

[minerpart]

Lots of fudsters are coming out of their holes now as its maybe only some days to start trading shares again...

This.

And their spreading of fear and doubt will work on many. And they will then get their cheap shares.

[eiprol]

Our shares are not trading yet but soon will be.

An account will be created for you on the trading platform Crypto-trade, not to be confused with Cryptostocks.

This is expected to happen in only a matter of days but be sure to tune back in on Wednesday around 2345hrs GMT and look for Ken's 'Weekly Update' for more information.

You will need access to the email address you used in Bitfunder (expect to be contacted through that) as well as the public address from Bitfunder that you would have given to receive dividends.  To prove ownership of your shares you will need to be able to 'sign a message' from that public address when the time comes.

Thanks for all that info

[coinfresh]

which one is ken?

some of you trolls are so lame. you can do better than that.