[ActiveMining] The Official Active Mining Discussion Thread [Self-Moderated]

[kleeck]

No it's a brand new project - 55nm full custom.

Minerpart, I understand that you want to defend the company against really stupid statements, but mainline/crumbs can and will spout complete bullshit over and over ad nauseum. Even more so if you engage him. Let it go. The majority of us have him on ignore anyways and don't even know what ridiculous claims he is making unless he is quoted by someone else...

[mainline]

Discovered his limitations a bit late, huh?  About half a year too late, from the looks of it

No it's a brand new project - 55nm full custom.

no, metal - they are cyborgs.

You quoted the wrong part, let me help again:

...
Discovered his limitations a bit late, huh?  About half a year too late, from the looks of it

And ... Did you mean: "proved their mettle"?  Or "proved they're metal"
Just trying to figure out what you're trying to say, since the first would be proven when the chips hash, and the second brings us back to moar Wizard of Oz quotes.

[finlof]

re: friedcat 40nm


Thats not hard news - far from it. The opening disclaimer says specs and cost and delivery dates are subject to change. In other words this is a theorhetical chip. It hasn't been taped out and he has no funding to have is produced.

Keep bringing us the 'hard news'. lol Its far less substantial than Kens release from last week but lets ignore that shall we?

again I have to question your loyalty to this company and it's ever-changing product.  I understand you may be heavily invested and feel the need to cheer and attempt to drive the price up (what price of what shares available where?) so you can attempt to recover your investment, but why do you have to distort reality.  you have just said that friedcat's announcement is far less substantial then Ken's release.  again I have to ask what planet are you from?  did you read friedcat's post?  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=438359.0  His company's ability to make and deliver a product for a premium price is unmatched.  several of yall want to say that ActM most closely resembles ASICMiner because it will be a company that both sells mining equipment as well as mines for themselves.  If Ken is indeed going to finally get a chip out there (sometime in the 2nd qtr 2014?) he could do worse than trying to emulate friedcat's communication, organization, business model, etc.  you trying to make friedcat out to be either a liar or someone who uses a detailed post to describe his upcoming "theoretical" chip is nothing short of ironic.  i am starting to think those who say you are a sock or a Slaughter may be right...

Please.  Let's keep one foot in reality.  The guy can't open his eyes for a publicity shot, can't write above grade-school level, and you think he'll hit the theoretical process efficiency?
ROFL.

Reality is Ken Friedcat has taken on 2 in-house several engineers who have already proven their metal with a taped out 55nm 110nm with excellent specs that has been selling for that last year. So get back into your chair.

FIFY

[kleeck]

re: friedcat 40nm


Thats not hard news - far from it. The opening disclaimer says specs and cost and delivery dates are subject to change. In other words this is a theorhetical chip. It hasn't been taped out and he has no funding to have is produced.

Keep bringing us the 'hard news'. lol Its far less substantial than Kens release from last week but lets ignore that shall we?

...

Several of yall want to say that ActM most closely resembles ASICMiner because it will be a company that both sells mining equipment as well as mines for themselves.  If Ken is indeed going to finally get a chip out there (sometime in the 2nd qtr 2014?) he could do worse than trying to emulate friedcat's communication, organization, business model, etc.  you trying to make friedcat out to be either a liar or someone who uses a detailed post to describe his upcoming "theoretical" chip is nothing short of ironic.  i am starting to think those who say you are a sock or a Slaughter may be right...

Please.  Let's keep one foot in reality.  The guy can't open his eyes for a publicity shot, can't write above grade-school level, and you think he'll hit the theoretical process efficiency?
ROFL.

Reality is Ken Friedcat has taken on 2 in-house several engineers who have already proven their metal with a taped out 55nm 110nm with excellent specs that has been selling for that last year. So get back into your chair.

FIFY

If we're being honest, FC did a great job giving up the strongest position in ASIC mining BY FAR. I was moderately invested in AM, and made out well by noticing FC's major oversights before the market, en mass, did. There is no excuse for him being so far behind the market. But I digress.

FC's communication has been bad. He has long stints of saying nothing and good luck getting a PM back from him.

As for his business model. Well, that is exactly why the share value of AM dropped through the dirt. His model is erratic. He went from building miners to focusing on a really cool, but probably not very lucrative cooling solution. He had a massive lead on any competition and ended up throwing it all away. Don't get me wrong, I'd like to see FC enter the market again. He was a pioneer in this industry, so I'll give him props for that, but his business model went from "ZOMGAMAZINGCOMPANY" to "WTF IS HE THINKING!?!" and now back to "Maybe he can pull this off..."

[minerpart]

you have just said that friedcat's announcement is far less substantial then Ken's release.

For the product we are talking about - and we are talking about this 40nm chip not anything that FC has done before - this is indeed a far less substantial news release than one from Ken which mentions a chip that has been taped out. That is a fact. FC's chip is all on paper as far as we know. He does not mention any post-production stage. You are assuming a lot.

His company's ability to make and deliver a product for a premium price is unmatched.

You cannot - especially in this industry - measure someone's potential by what they have achieved in the past. This is a completely new project - new projects present new problems. As kleeck said, AM has had it's own setbacks along the way and a lot of people lost a lot of money in their slow and steady decline on BTC-TC. This 40nm chip is in it's very early stages, you might think FC is a better bet than ACtM but OK it's still a gamble. I like the odds right now on ACtM. You don't, and that's fine.

Edit - if FC has all the funds he needs I just wonder why he is looking for partners and customers months before the chip is ready? Why wouldn't he just get the chip fabbed and start selling when he has them? I think he knows how problematic this process can be and he knows there is a big risk of delays and wants to share that risk so that any losses are not just his own. This business is hard.

[mainline]

...
You cannot - especially in this industry - measure someone's potential by what they have achieved in the past.
...

It's slightly better than measuring someone's potential by what they have *not* achieved in the past.
Otherwise, Ken, having achieved exactly zilch*, would be the undisputed champ

*well, he did get ur monyz...

[finlof]

If we're being honest, FC did a great job giving up the strongest position in ASIC mining BY FAR. I was moderately invested in AM, and made out well by noticing FC's major oversights before the market, en mass, did. There is no excuse for him being so far behind the market. But I digress.

FC's communication has been bad. He has long stints of saying nothing and good luck getting a PM back from him.

As for his business model. Well, that is exactly why the share value of AM dropped through the dirt. His model is erratic. He went from building miners to focusing on a really cool, but probably not very lucrative cooling solution. He had a massive lead on any competition and ended up throwing it all away. Don't get me wrong, I'd like to see FC enter the market again. He was a pioneer in this industry, so I'll give him props for that, but his business model went from "ZOMGAMAZINGCOMPANY" to "WTF IS HE THINKING!?!" and now back to "Maybe he can pull this off..."

i will not argue friedcat seemingly made a lot of mistakes and that the company could/should be much further along than it is (but where would that leave the global hash rate at this time then - 20, 30, 40, 50PH?).  when I said Ken could do a lot worse than emulating friedcat i meant it.  and by worse, he really is doing/has been doing exactly that.  how some of these investors can act like Ken is the shit is mind boggling.  minerpart downplayed friedcat's ability to deliver his published specs and upplayed (i know it's not a word but it works) Ken's ability to deliver his published specs.  this is one of the reasons I would much rather read crumbs/ve/mainline/etc than those that seem to be able to bend space/time with just stating it is so.

[zumzero]

This is just getting ridiculous.  Next thing we know, people will be calling kleeck a sock puppet.  Just get over the fact that there are genuine investors here who believe in the company and are happy to challenge the fudsters and naysayers.  How many times do you need to be told that minerpart is resident in the United Kingdom?  Personally I welcome his contributions.  He uses logic and facts to support his arguments and goes to a great deal more effort than some of the more judgemental members of this forum.  Some of you need to ask yourself what you are actually contributing if your posts only comprise of disparaging remarks.

I totally agree that we should not be quoting the trolls especially if we, ourselves, have instructed people to do the same in the past.  So miner, try and bite your tongue there please.

In other news, who's as excited as me about today's update?  It might not be today but it is only a matter of time until we hear some amazing stuff, and with every weekly update we get, we edge that bitcoin closer to
D-Day!  

[mainline]

This is just getting ridiculous.  Next thing we know, people will be calling kleeck a sock puppet.  Just get over the fact that there are genuine investors here who believe in the company...

Accepting that would shatter my faith in humankind.  I refuse to believe that anything called "Homo Sapien Sapien" could be that stupid.

As far as socks go, here:

...
Kindly address myself as me and not 'you guys' and do not confuse me with anyone else on this thread...

ORLY?

...
Any chance the reCAPTCHA can be made accessible for humans? What a joke!

#ActiveMining

Don't do what I did though. My God, the reCAPTCHA is unbelievably hard if you are a human!  Good luck buddie.

*The word you were looking for is "captcha," "Completely Automated Public Turing test to tell Computers and Humans Apart"

Fail!

Of course, you're also a bunch of other accounts, but I'll start with the obvious.

BTW, do you prefer fannybaws, zumzero or???

[breadcrumbs]

Normally, we would not respond to a detractor. Haters just gotta hate, you know?

But, this is why my three questions are the most important post on here today, and will remain so until the CEO of Active Mining gives his weekly PR statement:

A) All the posts of theoretical size and speed and power and cost of ASIC chips that do not exist are really pointless speculation.

B) Once the CEO of Active Mining answers Questions #2 and #3, then all of your silly speculation will be truly pointless, because we will have an answer to something which has been the cause of silly speculation like yours.

1) What will be reveal today in the weekly PR posting?

2) Will the CEO of Active Mining say that trading will begin?

3) Will the CEO of Active Mining say that there are new delays for trading to begin?

Most pointless post I've seen in ages.

[zumzero]

Off topic I know, but for anyone who hasn't seen this yet, it's a must.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1wfty9/why_bitcoin_terrifies_big_banks_interview_with/

[Rival]

Edit - if FC has all the funds he needs I just wonder why he is looking for partners and customers months before the chip is ready? Why wouldn't he just get the chip fabbed and start selling when he has them? I think he knows how problematic this process can be and he knows there is a big risk of delays and wants to share that risk so that any losses are not just his own. This business is hard.

As difficult as it is to design and produce a chip, it is a logistic nightmare to manage the sales of millions of them. And yes, all indications are that this production line will run into many millions of chips produced. These chips will be distributed... everywhere.

It would be foolish for anyone to just discount the capability of AM. They have a long history of underpromising and overdelivering. The failure of Gen2 was the exception, and a very valuable learning experience, one that would have bankrupted anyone else. It appears likely that they will emerge even stronger for the experience.

That does not mean there is not a place for competitors. But they are best served by taking their blinders off and recognizing AM for what they really are, not for what they wish they would be.

[wasubii]

Please.  Let's keep one foot in reality.  The guy can't open his eyes for a publicity shot, can't write above grade-school level, and you think he'll hit the theoretical process efficiency?
ROFL.

Reality is Ken has taken on 2 in-house engineers who have already proven their metal with a taped out 55nm with excellent specs. So get back into your chair.

yada yada yada...

something about counting your chickens before they have hatched...

[finlof]

you have just said that friedcat's announcement is far less substantial then Ken's release.

For the product we are talking about - and we are talking about this 40nm chip not anything that FC has done before - this is indeed a far less substantial news release than one from Ken which mentions a chip that has been taped out. That is a fact. FC's chip is all on paper as far as we know. He does not mention any post-production stage. You are assuming a lot.

His company's ability to make and deliver a product for a premium price is unmatched.

You cannot - especially in this industry - measure someone's potential by what they have achieved in the past. This is a completely new project - new projects present new problems. As kleeck said, AM has had it's own setbacks along the way and a lot of people lost a lot of money in their slow a steady decline on BTC-TC. This 40nm chip is in it's very early stages, you might think FC is a better bet than ACtM but OK it's still a gamble. I like the odds right now on ACtM. You don't, and that's fine.

Edit - if FC has all the funds he needs I just wonder why he is looking for partners and customers months before the chip is ready? Why wouldn't he just get the chip fabbed and start selling when he has them? I think he knows how problematic this process can be and he knows there is a big risk of delays and wants to share that risk so that any losses are not just his own. This business is hard.

so by your standards for every new project everyone is on equal ground at any given point in time.  regardless of past successes or failures.  sounds like good solid thinking.

in my opinion friedcat doesnt care about the share price (his last time to care about the share price was probably the IPO).  he cares about delivering a good product and a lot of it.  yes he has missed his own dates and scrapped his own projects, but at the same time he was (and still is) delivering a product.  he projects to have the chips available for shipment March 2014 (BEFORE ActM's 55nm).  he has distribution channels.  he has established business relationships and STAFF.  you ask why he is looking for partners and customers months before the chip is ready.  for one, he isnt looking for customers cause they have been waiting for him for a while.  since you cant seem to see why this is worth it let me break it down.  he needs to know the approx demand so he can 1. adequately assess chip production needs 2. adequately assess chip pricing points 3. find out who his best channels for distribution will be in any/all regions so they dont have to waste time/deal with small orders.  These are just off the top of my head so I'm sure there are more.

WHY ARE WE TALKING ABOUT WHAT FRIEDCAT DID OR DIDNT DO OR CAN OR CANT DO?  WE NEED TO KNOW WHAT KEN CAN OR CANT DO.

call me a FUDster or naysayer all you want.  All I care about is a realistic approach to this company.  not some unsubstantiated numbers based on the hope that BTC will rise to $5000 and that there will be $40,000,000 of sales of a 55nm chip that is projected to be ready 2nd qtr 2014 and/or a 28nm chip in 3rd? qtr 2014.  we "need" Ken to post something along the lines of what friedcat posted.  we "need" Ken to find partners that will purchase his raw chips in bulk and handle everything else.  i think all the rational people that would post here dont because they have seen what the loud extreme sides post and see there is no hope trying to talk about anything of real substance that wouldnt be savaged by one or both extremes.


EDIT - added friedcat's projected delivery timeframe of the 40nm chip since Minerpart says ActM's chip is further ahead because tape-out is complete.

[breadcrumbs]

Wasubii,

You have hit the nail on the head.  Too many of the posts in this thread are really nothing more than counting chickens before they are hatched.

What is worse, is there are no eggs yet, even.

We have chicken coops built, two experts on domesticated fowl husbandry, but no eggs and no chickens.

And yet, those who speculate with pretty numbers think themselves not the FUDster and not the trolls.


Only Ken knows the truth and he is holding on to it tightly.

Please.  Let's keep one foot in reality.  The guy can't open his eyes for a publicity shot, can't write above grade-school level, and you think he'll hit the theoretical process efficiency?
ROFL.

Reality is Ken has taken on 2 in-house engineers who have already proven their metal with a taped out 55nm with excellent specs. So get back into your chair.

yada yada yada...

something about counting your chickens before they have hatched...

[minerpart]

Too many of the posts in this thread are really nothing more than counting chickens before they are hatched.

Sure, it's called forward-looking profit analysis - or something like that. All start-ups with public offerings need to be examined along the same lines. You have not invested in an established company or project here. That's why there was an IPO. If you look at Friedcats's new project with anything other than 'chicken/hatch' eyes you'd be wrong because every new chip project is a new egg in this cutting-edge tech market.

A few facts go a long way - we have the funds to produce the chips we intend producing and we have two chips on the way with production assigned to two different global entities. The chances of success are very high. There is no known stumbling block in our way with the 55nm chip (already taped) and the 28nm is under the same design-team who have already produced a taped out ASIC.

The other fact is that we have had a delay with our 28nm ASIC. That's not unique in this industry. We have reacted to that delay by upgrading this 28nm to a full custom design creating a far more efficient ASIC. So to counter your saying I'll offer - one step back, two steps forward.

[EduardoDeCastro]

...
The other fact is that we have had a delay with our 28nm ASIC. That's not unique in this industry. We have reacted tio that delay by upgrading this 28nm to full custom design creating a far more efficient ASIC. So to counter your saying I'll offer - one step back, two steps forward.

If by "delay" you mean "complete failure" and by "upgrade" you mean "downgrade," you're right on the money

You are now PROMISED a 55nm chip in the spring, instead of HAVING completed 28nm miners now.  If you feel that's an "upgrade," the rest of your thrashings on this forum begin to make sense.

[keepinithamsta]

Too many of the posts in this thread are really nothing more than counting chickens before they are hatched.

Sure, it's called forward-looking profit analysis - or something like that. All start-ups with public offerings need to be examined along the same lines. You have not invested in an established company or project here. That's why there was an IPO. If you look at Friedcats's new project with anything other than 'chicken/hatch' eyes you'd be wrong because every new chip project is a new egg in this cutting-edge tech market.

A few facts go a long way - we have the funds to produce the chips we intend producing and we have two chips on the way with production assigned to two different global entities. The chances of success are very high. There is no known stumbling block in our way with the 55nm chip (already taped) and the 28nm is under the same design-team who have already produced a taped out ASIC.

The other fact is that we have had a delay with our 28nm ASIC. That's not unique in this industry. We have reacted tio that delay by upgrading this 28nm to full custom design creating a far more efficient ASIC. So to counter your saying I'll offer - one step back, two steps forward.

Do we have chips on the way or are we going to be told 3 months from now that the RTL/PCB design/etc was botched again?  I won't believe there's actually a product on the way until there's at least one shred of proof other than press releases at this point.

[breadcrumbs]

forward-looking profit analysis

Forward-looking
Yup! Know that that means. Seems to mean imagining something, like in the future. Sort of like speculation, or guessing.

Profit Analysis
Hmmmmm...... that's a hard one. Maybe that means, more guessing about something with a limited amount of data.
Like, drawing an elaborate curve from a very limited number of data points.


So by using some fancy words, you try to legitimize counting chickens before they hatch, when you have no fertile eggs either.


It is only 3:00 PM or so here in Washington, D.C. and the CEO's weekly report has not yet been published so we still have some time to wait to get that good news.

[minerpart]

fancy words

They are just normal words, used pretty much in the correct context, but if that's your criticism so be it. If you don't like the realities of investing in business start-ups don't invest.