[HAVELOCK] PETAMINE - 1,150 TH/S HASH RATE (1GH/S per Unit)

[Anotheranonlol]

The odds of a positive ROI only ever were theoretical, like when difficulty would drop by a few orders of magnitude,

Firstly, when has difficulty dropped by a few orders of magnitude, are we talking about the same bitcoin here?
2nd. the moment you have more BTC in your wallet at 'cash-out' time than you put in initially it's stops being theoretical and becomes real. If you want to talk too much about 'theoretical gains' you can talk about the positive ROI you've made from funneling your fiat into crypto not being more than a dream until you're back clutching USD in your sweaty palms again

but in such a scenario I want to avoid you claiming its possible to ROI. If the cryptx units are no longer being traded on the open market, I win.

Doesn't matter if they migrate to mpex,bitcoinbourse or get traded in PM's and IRC, all of those above are open no less than havelock. buyer is a buyer and a seller is a seller, profit is profit (or loss is loss, as would be MORE likely should these be delisted) so in that case you'd be more likely to win purely on the 'will IPO buyers be able to see a positive ROI in exactly 6 months' premise..as long as it's verifiable beyond reasonable doubt by neutral 3rd party then should be no problem?

 

if the same were to happen to cryptx, and BTC price were to plummet instead of soar, investors could end up with a BTC denominated profit if you convert the reimbursed dollars/euro's in to BTC. Again this is not a situation were I would want to lose the bet, especially since you claim there is no legal risk, and Im already betting plenty on a BTC price rise.

You wouldn't want to bet on a BTC denominated profit should cryptx be forced to reimburse fiat (for whatever weird reason) -- because they are just like activemining  into BTC despite strongly believing BTC/fiat is heading skyward right? you sure you know how this betting thing works?

[Puppet]

Do You really want to play this game? I bought shares per 0.05 last IPO, now after 6 month I gain 50% (assuming 0.075 price) even without divs..

If I got a satoshi for every time i heard a similar statement, Id have a bitcoin by now. Such a shame BurtW deleted his historic pirate profit thread.

Anyway, sure if you are lucky, flipping shares after an IPO can give you a nice short term profit. If you dont forget to cash out, and if you only bought a handful. However, since bitcoin securization took off,  there must have been close to 100 mining bonds/shares/contracts/cooperatives/units/whatever listed on all the exchanges. Someone correct me if Im wrong, but out of all of these, afaik exactly ZERO achieved a long term btc denominated positive ROI.

So yeah, I wanna play this game.

[Puppet]

You're not a very good reader, or I must suck at writing.

Firstly, when has difficulty dropped by a few orders of magnitude, are we talking about the same bitcoin here?

Reread my statement pls. I was merely pointing out it was impossible to objectively determine ROI of gigamining at that point, since there was no market price and future dividends could not be established. Theoretically *IF* difficulty was projected to drop dramatically, a profit could still be realized, but of course that was never going to happen. YOu wanted to bet on the statement "will be able to realise a positive ROI ", which is far too vague, Im explaining why. Theoretically, gigamining bond holders where still able to realize a positive ROI, but of course they never would nor did.

2nd. the moment you have more BTC in your wallet at 'cash-out' time than you put in initially it's stops being theoretical and becomes real. If you want to talk too much about 'theoretical gains' you can talk about the positive ROI you've made from funneling your fiat into crypto not being more than a dream until you're back clutching USD in your sweaty palms again

I agree. But if you can not sell your shares on an open market, we have no way to objectively assess their value. You claiming to be able to sell them via IRC for a certain price isnt good enough for me.

Doesn't matter if they migrate to mpex,bitcoinbourse or get traded in PM's and IRC, all of those above are open no less than havelock.

See above. if cryptx migrates to another open exchange, I have no issue with that and the bet remains valid. THe moment you have to rely on private dealings to establish a price, I will not accept that as criterion for this bet for fairly obvious reasons.

You wouldn't want to bet on a BTC denominated profit should cryptx be forced to reimburse fiat (for whatever weird reason) -- because they are just like activemining  

Indeed, they are just like activemining and satoshidice and feedzbirds in the sense that they are selling unregistered securities to raise capital.  As for the reason being weird... you cant be that naive. Did you really expect a court or regulator to order someone to pay damages in bitcoin? The moment authorities get involved, everything will be denominated in legal fiat currency. If I accept this bet with the condition that if/when cryptx is forced to pay a fiat sum that can be converted in to more bitcoin than the IPO was worth, Im effectively betting on a price rise because I think the scenario where cryptx is forced to repay in fiat is fairly likely. You seem to think this is unthinkable, so I cant see why you would object to me winning this bet under those circumstances, regardless of what BTC price does.

[Anonymousg64]

i will consider the bet once a few things are clarified by cryptx, such as the div/reinvestment we are going forward with and if the loan is btc or fiat denominated.

[Aireun]

Well this is an interesting statement: "Mining pools, such as the heavily funded super-secret 21E6 in San Francisco, are apparently going long on bitcoin by mining as many bitcoins as they can, making the bet that its value will exceed mining costs. 21E6 has raised at least $5 million in venture funding." Source: http://www.cnbc.com/id/101711220

If a big player like this heavily funded mining operation (21E6) is making a bet that bitcoin will exceed the mining costs then we should give the same optimistic thought about PETA mine. Sure it's easy to see that we may not be able to keep with bitcoin income, but it's fiat value will certainly catch up in all do time. You know what they say. "In Bitcoin We Trust".

[Puppet]

21e6 is reportedly an asic manufacturer. They fall in the same category as the mega-mines being deployed by KnC, CT, Bitfury/cex.io and possibly a few others like BFL. You can bet that spoonsomething will join them later.  If I could buy shares in those companies, I certainly would,  as Asic manufacturers are not beholden to the market value of their chips, they can produce them at cost and opt to either self mine or sell them for whatever the greatest fool is willing to pay. Doing the latter generates the funds to invest in a far larger hashing capacity for their own mine later. win-win, but for them, not for you.

[NotLambchop]

Well this is an interesting statement: "Mining pools, such as the heavily funded super-secret 21E6 in San Francisco, are apparently going long on bitcoin by mining as many bitcoins as they can, making the bet that its value will exceed mining costs. 21E6 has raised at least $5 million in venture funding." Source: http://www.cnbc.com/id/101711220
...

Newsflash:  Bitcoin Mining Company Expects To Make Money, Not Lose It!

Wouldn't it be strange if a company raising funds told the press it expects to lose money?

*Tilde test fails:  "Mining pools ... are apparently going short on bitcoin by mining as few bitcoins as they can, making the bet that its value will not exceed mining costs."

[Aireun]

So pessimistic.  You just gotta flow with the PETA stream man. "Said in a hippie tone"

[Puppet]

You just gotta flow with the PETA stream man.

[Aireun]

Hahaha. 

Not to that extream.

[Puppet]

1) On the Balance Sheet, approximately how many chips does the current Inventory (Products + Materials + Masks) represent?

A little less than 60P of wafers, most of which are on their final stages of production.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=99497.msg7147330#msg7147330

Thats AM saying they have 60PH worth of chips nearly ready to go. Current network is ~90PH. And thats just one asic manufacturer, and it doesnt even include their larger june batch. Good luck keeping up.

[ujka]

Those are bare chips, still on some final stages of production. They need to be built into miners. That takes time. And some of that miners can then end in peta-mine.  

[freedomno1]

IPO was 0.095 BTC per share for 15GH/s or 6.7 BTC/TH.

You are forgetting everyone was increased to 15GH/s

 

Anyway, since you seem both sure of your investment, and willing to double down, I have an opportunity for you. I could ask you to borrow me some shares so I can short them, but unfortunately thats not very practical and I dont feel like registering and depending on havelock, so lets make this an escrowed bet. Ill bet you 10BTC that 6 months from now, the sum of cryptx share/bond/'unit' price plus all paid dividends will be less than the 0.0975 IPO price, or shares are no longer publicly tradeable. If you win, you will double your investment, something I dont believe even you will think possible by buying cryptx shares.

Who's game?

I was entertained by this proposal but think if you want to see who will bite it makes sense to hold a hosted bet
Using betmoose or Bitbet with your 10 BTC on the line
Simply put if you win you get all their change and if they win they get a nice return

For a ten Bit bet I'll even host it if your bored once you guys have the outcome determination settled.

[ujka]

difficulty increase: 12.44%
petamine hashrate increase: 14%

[vaguhs]

Any news on the vote ?

[dhenson]

Nope

[realtime]

I'd expect to see vote results/info in the weekly update in the next 12 hours sometime, based on their communication history.

[kenmomotaro]

Those are bare chips, still on some final stages of production. They need to be built into miners. That takes time. And some of that miners can then end in peta-mine.  

Don't think Cryptx would buy AM chips since that is not the best kWh/ghs choice in the market.
Bitfury still rules.

[ujka]

Those are bare chips, still on some final stages of production. They need to be built into miners. That takes time. And some of that miners can then end in peta-mine.  

Don't think Cryptx would buy AM chips since that is not the best kWh/ghs choice in the market.
Bitfury still rules.

True. Petamine started on Bitfury, and after all the disappointment with Cointerra and Bitmine, returned to Bitfury.

[spartan82]

Cryptx has got the right idea here, replacing older hardware with new hardware lower wattage and efficiency. This is a very big move in my eyes that he has every intention to ensure PETAs success. They could very well continue to utilize miners with higher wattage and reap the fees associated with electricity usage but isn't. Waiting for the news with great anticipation here