[HAVELOCK] PETAMINE - 1,150 TH/S HASH RATE (1GH/S per Unit)

[fonsie]

@Puppet
At first I thought you were a troll, my apologies.

I am the sucker that bought this saturday for 0.08/share, 125 pieces, I'm also the sucker that just dumped 125 pieces, giving me a loss of 1.65BTC.
I should have done my homework better, the more I read what Puppet has to say, the more he makes sense, a 50/50 div/reinvestment, is not going to be enough in the long run, so it will have to get adjusted, thus decreasing the price/share (it should have been 10/90 from the start, not a single company gives 50% dividends). We are already at 0.66, one big dump and it's blood in the streets.

Last IPO was not a complete success, the next one will also not going to be a success.

After doing too little investigation I was toooo excited about PETA, consider the 1.65 BTC a donation to the bitcoin community 

I'll be investing euros to cover my lost 1.65BTC, so I won't be feeling miserable when bitcoin hits >1000$. This will also increase the value of all other bitcoins 

Luckily I didn't realise a fiat loss...but it has been a valuable and expensive lesson.

Thanks Puppet, you saved me from loosing another 8.35BTC.

Also the fact that I noticed that Havelock has been down 2 times already on 2 days, doesn't give confidence, even at this low volumes.

[nwfella]

Doesn't look like confidence is running very high in cryptx right now.  Share price definitely suffering as a result.  No new hardware added in quite sometime.  No decent in house custom-board update(s).  All taking it's toll on share price and will likely continue to do so.  Too bad, I was really hoping to see this project take off.  Perhaps 50/50 isn't a high enough reinvestment percentage but at this point I'm not entirely convinced that even had the 90/10 been voted through that we would be doing much better

My prediction for this week's dividend: 0.00171124

[Benny1985]

Oh no, I agree that what PETA is offering cannot be sustained indefinitely. I am getting ready to list on Havelock with a much more sustainable offering. But I was just chiming in to state that the difficulty, long term, is going to play out differently than what we've dealt with for the past year.

Obviously. Last year we saw nearly a 1000 fold increase in hashrate. That is not going to happen again, but if whatever you intend to offer has an ROI that is dependent on difficulty growth slowing down so it wont increase 10 fold in a year, I wont be buying.

No. What we're preparing to offer is a hybrid mining/reseller entity that has access to 4c/KWh electricity and volume purchasing power to get our own machines fabricated and significantly lower prices than what PETA quoted to its buyers. It will also have GAAP prepared statements for transparency of purchases, along with a shareholder-created board of directors to steer the operation.

I am somewhat surprised how ScryptX is performing. It should be way easier to deal with than what has been shown. Getting 3GH of mining up and running is not a major feat. If I had the kind of money they raised, I would have double that by now.

[ChevaL]

@Puppet
At first I thought you were a troll, my apologies.

I am the sucker that bought this saturday for 0.08/share, 125 pieces, I'm also the sucker that just dumped 125 pieces, giving me a loss of 1.65BTC.
I should have done my homework better, the more I read what Puppet has to say, the more he makes sense, a 50/50 div/reinvestment, is not going to be enough in the long run, so it will have to get adjusted, thus decreasing the price/share (it should have been 10/90 from the start, not a single company gives 50% dividends). We are already at 0.66, one big dump and it's blood in the streets.

Last IPO was not a complete success, the next one will also not going to be a success.

After doing too little investigation I was toooo excited about PETA, consider the 1.65 BTC a donation to the bitcoin community 

I'll be investing euros to cover my lost 1.65BTC, so I won't be feeling miserable when bitcoin hits >1000$. This will also increase the value of all other bitcoins 

Luckily I didn't realise a fiat loss...but it has been a valuable and expensive lesson.

Thanks Puppet, you saved me from loosing another 8.35BTC.

Also the fact that I noticed that Havelock has been down 2 times already on 2 days, doesn't give confidence, even at this low volumes.

Plot Twist: Puppet actually believes in the project and he's eating all these sub .070 shares.

Just kidding.. I appreciate all the feedback/trolling/discussion surrounding this project, i'm learning alot about ''the game'' of securities. Good luck fonsie!

[Puppet]

@Puppet
At first I thought you were a troll, my apologies.

Accepted and I appreciate the candidness. After all the scams and bad investments I have tried to expose over the years, I dont actually recall being thanked once even after the fact.  I do recall often being accused of actually having caused the collapse. Im sure that will be next here too .

a 50/50 div/reinvestment, is not going to be enough in the long run, so it will have to get adjusted, thus decreasing the price/share (it should have been 10/90 from the start, not a single company gives 50% dividends).

As I tried explaining for quite some time now, reinvestment ratio doesnt change the outcome.

A 0% reinvestment strategy will give you the maximum possible return for the investment in the shortest time, just like when buying a miner,  but that  will not be enough to achieve a positive ROI due to the far too high $/GH and $/KwH. My numbers show it would yield at best in the neighborhood of ~40% ROI (ie, a 60% loss).

A 100% reinvestement strategy will not pay out a satoshi in dividends ever but will also not be able to increase the hashrate at the same pace as the network; the mining revenue as % of investment is simply lower than the difficulty growth, so your share of the network and therefore,  share value will simply slide over a long time until approaches zero and thus you end up with ~0% ROI.  Its like buying a unprofitable miner and using all your revenue to buy more unprofitable miners.

Any reinvestment ratio in between will be a mix of both, but wont change the fact you will lose.

[runam0k]

No. What we're preparing to offer is a hybrid mining/reseller entity that has access to 4c/KWh electricity and volume purchasing power to get our own machines fabricated and significantly lower prices than what PETA quoted to its buyers. It will also have GAAP prepared statements for transparency of purchases, along with a shareholder-created board of directors to steer the operation.

I am somewhat surprised how ScryptX is performing. It should be way easier to deal with than what has been shown. Getting 3GH of mining up and running is not a major feat. If I had the kind of money they raised, I would have double that by now.

Probably not wise to criticise when you don't actually have anything in play.

We are already at 0.66, one big dump and it's blood in the streets.

There's no blood anywhere. Peta is performing well and .66 is already within the "buy" zone IMO. In fact, we're heading back up to 0.7. Guessing Puppet snapped up your shares.

Edit: Obviously I don't blame you for selling. We each look at these things, take in as much information as possible, consider the opportunity costs and make a call.

[fonsie]

I don't care anymore who picked them up, Puppet or anyone else... 

Simple fact is, if it would run profitable, there wouldn't have been a need for a second IPO, what's coming next? Another IPO and another, again and again.... this will save the first wave of investors, but the last one won't be saved, because at some point nobody is going to be stupid enough too fall for it again.

Also, in the prospectus is written that the share holders are the owners of the hardware, yet we only get to choose between selling and letting them run unprofitably. I would perhaps like to receive those units at my doorstep, in the event that when the whole mining bussiness collapses, I can just flip a switch, mine bitcoins, secure the network and save my other bitcoins.... just a mindspin 


But I don't care anymore whatever the outcome, have been having a knott in my stomach all day, and after selling I was relieved I only lost 1.65BTC, go figure 
The upside, I have gotten an education costing me 677EUR.

[fonsie]

I also think we should ask ourselves this.....

If I had:
-Enough storage capacity eg: warehouse
-Good connections with mining equipment makers
-Technical know/how about bitcoin, PC's, networks, etc.
-Access to free electricity to get me started
-A spreadsheet that says: Bitcoin mining is going to give me ROI
-A million dollars

Then why would I need somebody else's money?? And then my coin dropped. I wouldn't, I would just do it on my own, expanding and expanding... becoming rich all by myself, not wasting my time on a forum setting up IPO's, nope, I would just go on holiday, come back every 10 days and install more miners, go back on holiday and so on....endless cycle of money, but I WOULD NOT share this money making machine.

[Puppet]

Then why would I need somebody else's money??

Bingo. Apply that logic consistently and you'll avoid at least 90% of the ponzi's, scams and other investment traps out there.
And even in cases where external capital makes sense, ask yourself why not get a bank loan, angel investment or VC capital if the business plan is sound.

[ChevaL]

I also think we should ask ourselves this.....

If I had:
-Enough storage capacity eg: warehouse
-Good connections with mining equipment makers
-Technical know/how about bitcoin, PC's, networks, etc.
-Access to free electricity to get me started
-A spreadsheet that says: Bitcoin mining is going to give me ROI
-A million dollars

Then why would I need somebody else's money?? And then my coin dropped. I wouldn't, I would just do it on my own, expanding and expanding... becoming rich all by myself, not wasting my time on a forum setting up IPO's, nope, I would just go on holiday, come back every 10 days and install more miners, go back on holiday and so on....endless cycle of money, but I WOULD NOT share this money making machine.

But what if you had all that.. EXCEPT for the money? Also, why not go for 2 millions instead of 1 ?

[fonsie]

That would be an entirely different scenario, and you indeed would have to raise some money somehow, BUT from what I understood, they had the money + they even had the mining gear running, but then they saw they were killing themselves and then came the first IPO, to save the first wave of investors (themselves), in May we had the  second IPO to save the second wave of investors.

This still can be profitable for some, depending on when they got in and if they got out in time, I myself have saved a few last saturday  

PS: going for 2 million instead of 1, makes no sense if 1 million is enough to get started and it is profitable in the long run, you'll just end up splitting up you profits, if you had no money and the idea was good and profitable, buy back ALL SHARES ASAP, so you can become rich on your own.

[runam0k]

And even in cases where external capital makes sense, ask yourself why not get a bank loan, angel investment or VC capital if the business plan is sound.

Plenty of reasons. Most banks won't give bank accounts to Bitcoin businesses let alone loans. Individuals might not have access to VC or angel investor types. Even if they do, competition is fierce and the demands in terms of profit shares or shares of the company might not be favourable.

There's nothing inherently wrong with fundraising in this way (or similar initiatives - crowdfunding, etc), ignoring the obvious (i.e. securities laws).

Unfortunately, scams are scams and BTC-TC and Bitfunder shutting down hit the BTC unregulated securities markets hard.

[NotLambchop]

And even in cases where external capital makes sense, ask yourself why not get a bank loan, angel investment or VC capital if the business plan is sound.

Plenty of reasons. Most banks won't give bank accounts to Bitcoin businesses let alone loans...

Banks don't loan money to "Bitcoin businesses" for the same reason you shouldn't--it's a sucker's bet.

[Puppet]

Plenty of reasons. Most banks won't give bank accounts to Bitcoin businesses let alone loans. Individuals might not have access to VC or angel investor types.

I assure you cryptx' CEO does, and the bitcoin related businesses that actually have a sensible business plan (and capable management) dont seem to have any problem securing VC capital. I sure wish I could have bought shares in Bit-pay when it launched and would still very much like to invest today, but they didnt need an unregulated BTC IPO to get their funds.

There's nothing inherently wrong with fundraising in this way (or similar initiatives - crowdfunding, etc), ignoring the obvious (i.e. securities laws).

I agree, there are cases where it makes sense, like AM,  but just asking yourself the question will in the vast majority of current bitcoin related securities reveal it does not make sense. For instance, if bitcoin-trader pays out 3000% interest per year on fiat and BTC deposits alike, allegedly by "margin trading", it doesnt pass the sniff test of why they would need (ever more) external capital.

Unfortunately, scams are scams and BTC-TC and Bitfunder shutting down hit the BTC unregulated securities markets hard.

Pretty much none of the securities trading on either exchange were worth anything anyway. Closing down only exposed faster how worthless these things were.

[runam0k]

Banks don't loan money to "Bitcoin businesses" for the same reason you shouldn't--it's a sucker's bet.

You spend an awfully long time here in the Securities sub-forum. Are you sure you don't invest?

[theMiracle]

^Stop being insulting.  Do I suggest that you enjoy getting repeatedly raped by the issuers of various "securities"?  Don't think the thought hasn't crossed my mind, but proper etiquette dictates I keep those suspicions to myself.

Besides, had I ulterior motives for educating you, I would say "no, I do not invest."  If I do not invest, I would also say "no, I do not invest."  So your question is rather unenlightening.

[runam0k]

^Stop being insulting.  Do I suggest that you enjoy getting repeatedly raped by the issuers of various "securities"?  Don't think the thought hasn't crossed my mind, but proper etiquette dictates I keep those suspicions to myself.

Besides, had I ulterior motives for educating you, I would say "no, I do not invest."  If I do not invest, I would also say "no, I do not invest."  So your question is rather unenlightening.

How many accounts do you run?

[IPO Magic]

^Enough to keep the local conspiracy buffs pickled in paranoia.

[Puppet]

Its going  faster than even I had thought. Current hashrate according to blockchain: 115PH  
Cryptx share of the network: 1221 TH / 115 PH = 1.06%
That 2% goal sounds like a distant pipedream and  with 8+ weeks of no reinvesment and thus further decline ahead even 1% is completely out of reach. 0.6% will be closer to reality before the loan is paid back. Good luck bag holders.

[BiteMyShinyMetalAss]

Yeah yeah yeah. So we dont have another 12 weeks dividends(6 weeks for loan, 6 weeks to get a reinvestment fund), still though, the reinvestment fund will be at least 300-400BTC. With bitcoin price 700$ that would be 210k-280k. Now lets say, BTC price will be 1000$ so fund would be 300-400k. Enough to jump back in business. Now, its ridiculous to assume that btc price would be 2500$ in 12 weeks, but in this very unlikely scenario, our fund would be 650-800k...

Puppet is a man with no agenda. Man with hundred accounts.The only agenda of his is to save the world and he does it by living 24/7 in the PETA forum to educate people. Puppet, you would save thousands of lives if you stay on Cex troll box.

Yes, mining is not profitable if you buy a miner at the market price. However, if you buy chips in large quantities and make your own boards, thats a bit different story. PETA does not have to growth as fast as the network is growing.1) Network growth will inevitably slow down. 2) All we need to do is to stay in the range of 1-2% thats it. 3) Its not correct to assume that each time difficulty jumps, PETA also has to deploy machines, because we get a better price buy buyng more at a time so collect reinvestment fund and then jump, whait 3-4 months and then jump.

Also, PETA constantly updates the machines, so after 3 months , what we have now will be sold to willing buyers and better performance/maintanance ratio machines will be acquired, as it is right now.

Mining in itself is a risky business, so should be attacked as whole, but not PETA in particulary as a bad choice.  Out of all cloud mining options that exists, PETA is the best one.