[HAVELOCK] PETAMINE - 1,150 TH/S HASH RATE (1GH/S per Unit)

[vaguhs]

But, for the record, Peta-Mine has been a very solid investment for me. I bought in ~9 months ago, at .065/share, and a bit more at .05/share. Share price has been pretty stable during most of that time. At the moment, we are still trading above those numbers, so I could easily sell for a profit. In addition, dividends during that time have been something like ~50% of those IPO values. So... fantastic investment, by any measure.
Nonetheless, every time I come to this thread it is clogged with sky-is-falling, OMG-you-people-are-idiots, this-is-such-scam FUD. And every Friday I make some more profit, just by holding.
Just saying.

+1 +1 +1 exactly!
another week, another excellent dividend reinvested in a few more shares.
J

+1 +1 +1 +1

[Usman056]

But, for the record, Peta-Mine has been a very solid investment for me. I bought in ~9 months ago, at .065/share, and a bit more at .05/share. Share price has been pretty stable during most of that time. At the moment, we are still trading above those numbers, so I could easily sell for a profit. In addition, dividends during that time have been something like ~50% of those IPO values. So... fantastic investment, by any measure.
Nonetheless, every time I come to this thread it is clogged with sky-is-falling, OMG-you-people-are-idiots, this-is-such-scam FUD. And every Friday I make some more profit, just by holding.
Just saying.

+1 +1 +1 exactly!
another week, another excellent dividend reinvested in a few more shares.
J

+1 +1 +1 +1

+00

[MineForeman.com]

@MineForeman.com Welcome to the PETA thread! Minepeon is a godsend, I rely on it for many things -- and I barely understand linux, but am able to use it anyway. Thanks a lot for that! It is a truly super tool.

Thanks for the welcome, I am glad you like MinePeon, I hope you donate .

This thread has been an education and I am glad to know there are people out here like you (I knew there must be, most of the shares have been sold at .05 it seems, those people are raking it in, early adaptor advantage and all).  It does seem though that like bitcoin a pile of people bought in at max value of about 0.8 ($1200 for bitcoin) and had their fingers burnt and are in this thread to complain. I don't like to blame victims but surely they should have read a bit before they jumped in.

Anyway, I am only here because someone half jokingly (I hope) said that I should use my contacts with ASIC manufacturers and do an IPO.  The math is simple enough and it is quite doable (as a business case), but securities scare me and there is too much I don't understand like;-

WTF is up with PETA's order book?  I have trouble believing that people eat that much FUD in this tread to effect it that badly.

Neil

P.S. I wish I bought a pile at 0.05 like you, but hindsight is 20/20

[Puppet]

Mildly insulting, there is no real need for that.

  Its a proverb.

You have nicely outlined the downsides to mining,

Mining tends to be bad enough, but this is worse. Buying cryptx right now is the equivalent of buying hardware @ 5.7 BTC/TH if you include the 670BTC remaining loan. Even an antminer S2 costs ~3 BTC/TH and is considered overpriced by many, and at least can be hosted somewhere with far lower electricity costs than peta.

https://www.havelockinvestments.com/fund.php?symbol=PETA

A good chunk of the weekly "profit", as well as some pre-financed stuff in addition to sales of older less efficient hardware that was sold is going into new gear.  You say Cryptx is reputable but is this a pack of lies?

The prefinanced stuff has to be paid back through witholding dividends. As a result for the next (most crucial) 2 to 3 months, half the dividends are going to the issuer to repay the loan, and nothing is left for reinvestment. As for reselling less efficient hardware, the last IPO price represented 6.5BTC/TH. When cryptx auctioned off some hardware to replace with more efficient gear, he got 1.6-1.7 BTC/TH not even a month later.

ANyway, to the "+10" posters; why are you not taking me up on my offer? If you think holding cryptx is wise, clearly my offer is 10% better.

[RoadStress]

Physical assets that depreciate much faster than snow melts in the sahara and dividends that are function of difficulty. Have you looked at difficulty or network hashrate charts recently? Yesterday difficulty went up 14.5%  and  its currently projected to increase >18% in 11 days. That means dividends go down by the same amount, and your physical assets depreciate by about  as much, and this is even before the big onslaught; Asicminer based rigs start shipping this or next week, good for a total of 60-100PH (!). Antminer starts shipping its 28nm S3 next week. KnC starts shipping and probably deploying its 20nm this week. Heck, even BFL may finally begin deploying some Monarchs this week, and then there is my hunch that a 28nm Bitfury is just around the corner.

I'm sorry but AM isn't shipping 60-100PH in the next week. They won't do it in the next 2-3 months either. Nobody will buy 60-100PH worth of inefficient miners.

[spartan82]

Physical assets that depreciate much faster than snow melts in the sahara and dividends that are function of difficulty. Have you looked at difficulty or network hashrate charts recently? Yesterday difficulty went up 14.5%  and  its currently projected to increase >18% in 11 days. That means dividends go down by the same amount, and your physical assets depreciate by about  as much, and this is even before the big onslaught; Asicminer based rigs start shipping this or next week, good for a total of 60-100PH (!). Antminer starts shipping its 28nm S3 next week. KnC starts shipping and probably deploying its 20nm this week. Heck, even BFL may finally begin deploying some Monarchs this week, and then there is my hunch that a 28nm Bitfury is just around the corner.

I'm sorry but AM isn't shipping 60-100PH in the next week. They won't do it in the next 2-3 months either. Nobody will buy 60-100PH worth of inefficient miners.

If you think that those chips won't sell you are delusional.

[Puppet]

I'm sorry but AM isn't shipping 60-100PH in the next week. They won't do it in the next 2-3 months either. Nobody will buy 60-100PH worth of inefficient miners.

So you are saying AM will not be able to sell hardware that consumes ~1W/GH at the wall and costs them less than 0.3 BTC per TH at the chip level because no one will want that. Yet you think its a good idea to buy shares that represents nearly 6BTC/TH and with electricity cost that are nearly 10x higher than any AM/Antminer/CT/whatever miner run in iceland or washington dc ?

Think that through..

[MonkeyBear68]

I'm sorry but AM isn't shipping 60-100PH in the next week. They won't do it in the next 2-3 months either. Nobody will buy 60-100PH worth of inefficient miners.

So you are saying AM will not be able to sell hardware that consumes ~1W/GH at the wall and costs them less than 0.3 BTC per TH at the chip level because no one will want that. Yet you think its a good idea to buy shares that represents nearly 6BTC/TH and with electricity cost that are nearly 10x higher than any AM/Antminer/CT/whatever miner run in iceland or washington dc ?

Think that through..

Cryptx could easily purchase these AM chips and build boards using them for future reinvestments.

[MineForeman.com]

Mildly insulting, there is no real need for that.

  Its a proverb.

Yes, and you used it as an insult (I have a reading age of above 5 years old, you can insult someone with a proverb..)

The prefinanced stuff has to be paid back through witholding dividends. As a result for the next (most crucial) 2 to 3 months, half the dividends are going to the issuer to repay the loan, and nothing is left for reinvestment. As for reselling less efficient hardware, the last IPO price represented 6.5BTC/TH. When cryptx auctioned off some hardware to replace with more efficient gear, he got 1.6-1.7 BTC/TH not even a month later.

And they have raised 1366.185 in public offerings that they never have to pay off.  Where is the problem?  They could pay off the loan (who would though if you have already accounted for it) without much issue, NEVER add capacity ever again and still turn a weekly profit.

Can I ask, how much did you buy in for?  If you bought in IPO you should be sitting pretty right now.  If you bought in at .095 you picked a very bad point and I can understand what your issue is.

Neil

[Puppet]

The prefinanced stuff has to be paid back through witholding dividends. As a result for the next (most crucial) 2 to
And they have raised 1366.185 in public offerings that they never have to pay off.  Where is the problem?

You mean for cryptx, the issuer ? No problem at all. He's sitting pretty, he doesnt even hold any shares himself. All he does is collect hosting/mgt fees that do not decrease with difficulty.

They could pay off the loan (who would though if you have already accounted for it) without much issue, NEVER add capacity ever again and still turn a weekly profit.

Again, if you mean Bert, sure. He is taking zero risk. But as an asset holder, you are not buying in to the company, you are buying a mining bond that entitles you to 15GH per share (minus that loan, minus fees).

Can I ask, how much did you buy in for?  

Zero. I guess you didnt read this thread. I would however, love to short this.

[MineForeman.com]

Zero. I guess you didnt read this thread. I would however, love to short this.

Ah, sorry, I must have missed it in all the FUD and I just assumed that you had some stake.

I still don't see the issue though, it's a solvent company, giving good returns, could pay of their debts and are expanding (at least you say they are).  There does not seem much risk of them going belly up, and you say the guys behind it are basically honest.  Seems like it would be a very risky short to me.

Neil

[RoadStress]

I'm sorry but AM isn't shipping 60-100PH in the next week. They won't do it in the next 2-3 months either. Nobody will buy 60-100PH worth of inefficient miners.

If you think that those chips won't sell you are delusional.

Read my post again. I said they won't sell in the next week.

So you are saying AM will not be able to sell hardware that consumes ~1W/GH at the wall and costs them less than 0.3 BTC per TH at the chip level because no one will want that. Yet you think its a good idea to buy shares that represents nearly 6BTC/TH and with electricity cost that are nearly 10x higher than any AM/Antminer/CT/whatever miner run in iceland or washington dc ?

Think that through..

Please show me where I stated that.

[elgapoorre]

So why is PETA paying 5 BTC/TH when there are cheaper and more efficient options available?

[Puppet]

Cryptx could easily purchase these AM chips and build boards using them for future reinvestments.

Sure, but what money is cryptx going to purchase it with? There is no reinvestment fund for a few months, and after the loan has been paid back,  50% of the mining revenue that will be available for investments will be dust compared todays share price.

Most likely Bert will launch a new security like "zetamine" to raise money to buy AM or whatever other hardware with, but thats not going to be of any use to current petamine holders.

[Puppet]

I still don't see the issue though, it's a solvent company, giving good returns, could pay of their debts and are expanding (at least you say they are)

Legal threats aside, the company is doing just fine, but you are not buying a share in the company!

[ujka]

So why is PETA paying 5 BTC/TH when there are cheaper and more efficient options available?

No, no, isn't PETA (CryptX) paying 5 btc/th, those ppl did that bougth in at last IPO (6.3 btc/th).
PETA bought hardware (around 700th) last month for $1700/th.

[Puppet]

To help dispel the reinvestment myth, made another chart. First again, my assumptions for network growth, which so far are seriously underestimating reality:





Note that I start with 7% week network growth and assume a rapid deceleration, in reality its >10% right now and if anything, still accelerating.

still, given those optimistic assumptions, and assuming constant hosting costs based on the latest financial statement, simple arithmetic gives you this result:



So in total each share will yield a maximum of 0.01765 BTC in dividends from the original 15GH and there will up to 0.0074 BTC per share available for reinvestment after the loan is paid back.
0.0177+0.0074=~0.025 BTC per share. That would represent a reasonable value for cryptx shares, if you believe his future reinvestments will make far more sense than his investments to date. And you guys seem to think its wise to pay nearly three times that because..?

Even if cryptx could turn a 0.00739 reinvestment in to a 1000% profit, which is about whats needed to break even on todays price), why would you invest in the current peta mine, and not directly in to whatever miracle investment cryptx will come up with?  Seriously, do some math, make your own simulations. It makes no sense whatsoever.

BTW, those who think my network growth assumptions are way too pessimistic, I seriously doubt that, but even if, then this is what a 3BTC Antminer S2 (2.4 BTC with coupon)  would do under the exact same conditions:



Instead of a 75% loss, it would be between a ~30% loss and a 80+% profit depending on your electricity costs and if you get a coupon (plenty around). And feel free to reinvest every single mined satoshi if you think thats a good strategy.

edit: those who want to play with the numbers, here is the spreadsheet:

http://www.mediafire.com/view/xtovt74dln15iav/crytpx.ods

[NotLambchop]

You, guy with creepy communist sciences and degenerate charts!



*You're wasting your time.  Those who trust math didn't invest in PETA, and the ones who did are on to your heathen magik.

[Puppet]

[JstnPwll]

This thread has gotten out of control.