Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Order Batch 1 Now!

[uozer]

does the original terms say the terms can be changed at any time or that we would be viewed as a buisness?

haha, what do you think? make a wild guess

does anyone have a screenshot or copy of the original T&Cs?

Look one page back and Jomay check your PM.

so since they started asking for the remaining balance on 5/22 and original T&C says "Balance payment of 70% shall be collected 8-10 weeks before shipment date". They breach it if they happen to cancel any order for not closing the balance.

here is Fiaz's reply to this (via PM off course)

"I did tell you I answered this, we are asking for payment now (8-10 before shipping in September) hence we have fulfilled this term."

such a warm reply, with full confidence on September delivery.

What do you guys think?

and off course now they post this proof before payment post, so no orders will be cancelled until there is proof - otherwise it would be a breach of T&C

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[Phorna]

I have been researching the UK laws on Public Offering Of Shares and they are pretty damn strict. If you offer shares to more than 99 people in the UK or any EU district (35 in the USA), it is considered a Public Offering. This cannot be done by a Private Company, it is illegal under The Companies Act. [...]

This is irrelevant for them. They just wanted customers' money. They promised 30% shares but not with all this official stuff but more like boys in school exchange chewing gum for candy. Secret Brotherhood of Hash. Customers would get an e-mail like: Rest assured you now own 1/3001 of our company. Haven't you noticed how shocked they were that most of the people didn't give a damn about offered deal?

Anyway we're getting older and still there is no info about actual product. They have just enclosed some BS that they won't say a thing. Why? Because their partners made them to sign a non-disclosure agreement that they won't tell anyone about the co-operation (sic!). Also, by publication, they could loose the "competitive edge over their competitors". Megalomaniacs!

[wakirksey]

Well Folks, you are being had and feed a bunch of lies.   I am a customer that been fighting Alpha T for your rights, but they ban folks for pointing out their blatant lies.  Do your homework, visit these two links and you will see the truth.  Do, not, I repeat Do Not, pass this vote until you read these posts on these links.  If you visit these sites, you will see this posted on the first site link.  You will see this post and who I am and what I had to say that that got me banned and what I had to say in my post along with everybody else that been banned and their post deleted on this forum to keep the truth away from you.  

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=314402.new#new

https://litecointalk.org/index.php?topic=2859.1455

[oldcrow]

  After reviewing today's data my gut feeling is this company will not last past the end of Q3, possibly sooner.  If any leverage by customers is to be applied via banking or legal institutions for recovery of funds it should be done now as whatever liquidation assets exist will be taken by creditors leaving little or no scraps for customer fund recovery.  As with the Black Arrow debacle (among others), the lesson learned is simple: buy from inventory SKUs and not from unsecured pre-order startups. I wish I could be more kind with my words but I've seen too many companies with lofty ambitions and good intentions flame out as they come to realize they've created a monster and wish it would just go away.  Best of luck.

[jomay]

I have been researching the UK laws on Public Offering Of Shares and they are pretty damn strict. If you offer shares to more than 99 people in the UK or any EU district (35 in the USA), it is considered a Public Offering. This cannot be done by a Private Company, it is illegal under The Companies Act.

That's what I meant saying that Alpha Technology is run by naive youngsters. I was very surprised by their "shares" offer. Working in finance I know that anything related to "investment" is very highly regulated, particularly if you offer it to laymen. You need proper legal advise to do this. They are very foolish if they didn't get legal advise, as they may end up in prison. I don't think they deserve that (yet), as they genuinely tried to get the product out at the beginning.

I wonder if the best turn out is if Alpha Technology goes bankrupt. I think my CC may have to refund me based on section 75 and/or chargeback protection, although the payment went through paypal. There's some controversy, though:

http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/section-75-of-the-consumer-credit-act

Payments through Paypal

There are some transactions where the company that deals with your credit card payment is not the same as the one that provides the goods or service - such as Paypal.

If you use your credit card to pay for something through PayPal and the funds go direct to the seller, then as long as the company you're buying from has a 'Commercial Entity Agreement' with Paypal you may still be able to claim under Section 75 for any misrepresentation or breach of contract.

PayPal offers its own buyer protection scheme, called PayPal Buyer Protection, so it's worth checking if you'd be covered by that if you have a problem with your purchase.

http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/shopping/section75-protect-your-purchases

Goods/services bought through intermediariesIf you buy through a travel agent, PayPal, group-buying sites, etc

You're unlikely to be covered when payments are made to a company that isn't the one providing you with the product or service. In these cases, the credit card company usually says it didn't have a direct relationship with the supplier, so isn't equally liable.

If you stand your ground, it's possible to argue that the indirect relationship constitutes an arrangement to pay. The Court of Appeal decided this was acceptable in 2006, but it's unlikely to be an easy task.

That's 5 MegaHeadache/s of fun for you...

[Searing]

does the original terms say the terms can be changed at any time or that we would be viewed as a buisness?

haha, what do you think? make a wild guess

does anyone have a screenshot or copy of the original T&Cs?

Look one page back and Jomay check your PM.

so since they started asking for the remaining balance on 5/22 and original T&C says "Balance payment of 70% shall be collected 8-10 weeks before shipment date". They breach it if they happen to cancel any order for not closing the balance.

here is Fiaz's reply to this (via PM off course)

"I did tell you I answered this, we are asking for payment now (8-10 before shipping in September) hence we have fulfilled this term."

such a warm reply, with full confidence on September delivery.

What do you guys think?

me..no comment...I jumped off the train and was lucky enough to hit Lake amex off the train trestle (long fall) into kerplunk! refunded!.....so presently watching the train chug away
towards the landslide of 'customer dismay' ahead......anticipating the large alpha train wreck/derailment......arms getting tired ..hurry up already....

Searing
 

[VJLoops]

FWIW I also followed up by contacting PayPal Acceptable Use Policy Department and reporting my transaction as fraud.  Although it's past the deadline I think PayPal should be aware of what's going on.

How do I report sales, transactions, or websites that violate PayPal policy?
If you encounter a website that you feel may violate our Acceptable Use Policy, please send us an email at aup@paypal.com.

[Searing]

FWIW I also followed up by contacting PayPal Acceptable Use Policy Department and reporting my transaction as fraud.  Although it's past the deadline I think PayPal should be aware of what's going on.

How do I report sales, transactions, or websites that violate PayPal policy?
If you encounter a website that you feel may violate our Acceptable Use Policy, please send us an email at aup@paypal.com.

paypal also has something called the paypal executive committee you can petition on stuff..some people got lucky last year with BFL refunds that way
till BFL started hiding banks/accounts from paypal thus it dried up....ask about that option as well...before alpha pulls the same stunt...i did eventually get
a refund from paypal this year...but missed a refund with the above paypal executive option back then by like 2 days...so my BFL refund was luck in hindsight
but don't count on luck with alpha...once they declare bankruptcy no money will move at all back to anyone for probably quite some time ...and any $$$ by
that point to customers will be measly imho

if folks don't have a cc this is probably one of only 2 options the other is to go back in the thread and contact the EU and UK consumer protection
links folks posted and various legal services..some folks also have used lawyers with good effect check out the thread

as always good luck

Searing

edit clarified above my bfl refund...1/2 came back via the way I paid paypal...the wire xfer part came back in that manner just to be clear on above.
So the BFL refund was due to difficulties this year BFL was having with probation of sonny v. and the class action suit....got all back in 6 month 1 day
manner on monarch upgrade..anyway just to be clear....this was all due JUST TO PLAIN DUMB LUCK...that last year I was DUMB enough to upgrade
my 65mm to a monarch...thus qualified for their desperate refund options they put up this year due to pressure on BFL.

So anyway ..don't rely on luck ...try the paypal exec committee and also the UK and EU consumer protection links back in this thread and pressure
you cc company with the www.coindesk.com article on alpha and their own NEWS statements....imho you have a much better shot with those
links included with any dispute to your cc company..good luck...eventually....alpha imho may freeze accounts etc ...likely just before bankruptcy
so start building your dispute file with the cc company asap

[VJLoops]

paypal also has something called the paypal executive committee you can petition on stuff..

Would you happen to have a link or more info? A quick google search didn't turn up anything.  Cheers!

[bumface]

i feel like a fool, i paid in full and all with bitcoin. I felt pressured when they asked for the 70% and i feared of loosing the order. That money is every cent i own and i cant afford to loose it. That money was to be an income to facilitate UTC expenses and help the coin grow.

I think alpha tech and customers are to blame. Alpha not disclosing problems as they happened and banning, and customers for yelling scam to quickly.....anyway this thing turned into a giant cluster f#ck and i have asked for a full refund yesterday which is my right by law. i am not a buisness and here in the Netherlands i can earn legally with mining and report the income as "side revenue" as an individual.

I am well within my right to recieve a full refund, i was not greedy when i ordered this, i simply wanted an income.I believe they are real buisnessmen and not scammers and i have asked people to be reasonable for many many times.But they keep making the wrong tactical desicion. I too have banned baseless acusations and trollers on the UTC thread, and i support this.but there is a fine line between trollers and concerned customers. And i can say when the stress of the fudders got to me, i may have banned some good people as well, this is human behavior.

we have gotten into  reversed chicken and egg situation where they want to ship machines, but somany customers want a refund now, including myself. that the outcome of shipping seems grey.

I have tried to look at this from a positive angle for many times, but now i fear i have killed my money. Kevin o`leary would be gravely dissapointed in me.

I have given them 1 week in the mail to refund me in full, so i will wait for the reply. The old your a buisness has been debunked and proven illigal. I am not a troll, i simply wish to exercise my  lawfull right.People need to coordinate actions and not start a 1000 seperate things.

and i do not think this means bancrupcy for alpha tech. they believe in their product and that is how its supposed to be.The wisest course of action now is refund people who want refunds, then AT should turn on the miners of the refunders and mine with it.

Then they should put these miners back for sale with a small discount of 20%. This way they can keep people happy and survive.Because every miner has a profit margin built in, they would even ROI quicker then any of us.


As a side note,the proper course of action was not offering shares in the company, becasue disgruntled customers have no taste  to own which they do not like. The wise thing was to rent hashing power effective imeadiatly and distribute this under customers as a compensation for missing the juli date.......

[uozer]

does the original terms say the terms can be changed at any time or that we would be viewed as a buisness?

haha, what do you think? make a wild guess

does anyone have a screenshot or copy of the original T&Cs?

Look one page back and Jomay check your PM.

so since they started asking for the remaining balance on 5/22 and original T&C says "Balance payment of 70% shall be collected 8-10 weeks before shipment date". They breach it if they happen to cancel any order for not closing the balance.

here is Fiaz's reply to this (via PM off course)

"I did tell you I answered this, we are asking for payment now (8-10 before shipping in September) hence we have fulfilled this term."

such a warm reply, with full confidence on September delivery.

What do you guys think?

me..no comment...I jumped off the train and was lucky enough to hit Lake amex off the train trestle (long fall) into kerplunk! refunded!.....so presently watching the train chug away
towards the landslide of 'customer dismay' ahead......anticipating the large alpha train wreck/derailment......arms getting tired ..hurry up already....

Searing
 

well well well ladies and gentleman, lo and behold, i am banned again

hi fiaz, if you are reading this, "rest assured", i will "go out of my way" to make sure i apply to every single possible way of litigation against you and your company

[retro72]

This is irrelevant for them. They just wanted customers' money. They promised 30% shares but not with all this official stuff but more like boys in school exchange chewing gum for candy. Secret Brotherhood of Hash. Customers would get an e-mail like: Rest assured you now own 1/3001 of our company. Haven't you noticed how shocked they were that most of the people didn't give a damn about offered deal?

Yep. Pretty much. This is why I pointed out the Laws. It will take Alpha MONTHS and tens( possibly hundreds) of thousands of pounds to organises this. They would probably spend most of their capital just to get it of the ground. They don't have the intention or the finances to do this right, as you say customers will probably just get an email saying "You are now the proud owner of 250 shares in Alpha Technology we promise to pay you 000.1% of any and all future earnings".

None of it will be legal, just another money grab. BUT, messing around with the FCA or FSA is pretty serious stuff. This is not a breach of the DSR, they WILL end up in prison if they if they try to pull a share scam. Mr Akram and his cronies are heading closer and closer to an 8x8 cell.

[retro72]

REFUNDED from alpha by American Express! (sorta kinda still confused)

Hey Searing. Well done mate. I think you've found a potentially winning formula. Using the Coindesk article and the M Akram statement was a pretty smart move. Everyone should follow this route.

Interestingly Amex said they got the money from Alpha's merchant account, which means Alpha's bank paid up. This means the are taking money direct from Alpha's bank account. I suggest anyone looking for a refund move fast before the money dries up. You MAY have some bankruptcy protection if you paid by CC but if you paid any other way you will be out of luck.

[Precog]

Need to give you my latest update.


I paid them on July 14th, and on July 28th I requested a full deposit refund as is outlined in their terms. I also opened a dispute with them with BitPay. I have emailed them every 24 hours without any response, and I have been in communication with BitPay every 24 hours. They have not responded to BitPays requests at all.

I finally received an email today from Alpha that said

"Hello there,

We are very sorry but as per our cancellation policy it has been longer than 5 months since you placed your order therefore you are no longer eligible for a refund. Our terms specifically mention end of Q3 as the latest we can ship, if we announce we will try to ship sooner it is done purely in goodwill and not something we are contractually obliged to do."

And I told them

"
Hello. I am not cancelling my order and it has been less than 20 days
since I made my payment. As per the terms I agreed to when making my
payment it states "Within 0-1 month after receipt of payment: Full
deposit will be refunded." It has been less than 1 month and and I am
requesting a refund of that deposit that I just sent less than 20 days
ago. In an earlier email I communicated to you that I private messaged
Fiaz Malik and he stated that if I were to send the payments email a
request for my refund that it would be processed. The response you
gave to me in email to that request said that we want you to read a
forum post before you finalize your BitPay payment refund request. And
every 24 hours since that email I have reinstated that you need to
refund my BitPay payment immediately without further delay.

I'm not sure if you are thick headed or what but you need to refund my
payment as per the terms I agreed to."

I also wrote a full length complaint via BitPay as well detailing every single deceitful criminal act and behavior that this company has committed in the last month.

I'm pretty sure we are past the point of good grace with this company. They are going to go bankrupt, and take everyones money with them, and then we will have to deal with the legal crap for the next year.

This has been the largest waste of money and time that I've dealt with in a decade. This shit is disgusting.

[Slipknot79]

This is irrelevant for them. They just wanted customers' money. They promised 30% shares but not with all this official stuff but more like boys in school exchange chewing gum for candy. Secret Brotherhood of Hash. Customers would get an e-mail like: Rest assured you now own 1/3001 of our company. Haven't you noticed how shocked they were that most of the people didn't give a damn about offered deal?

Yep. Pretty much. This is why I pointed out the Laws. It will take Alpha MONTHS and tens( possibly hundreds) of thousands of pounds to organises this. T

Not true

Lets sell some Viper units, and get free legitimisation to do share business. Its dat easy. Have you forgotten have to became company founder by doing business with AT?  
Read their T&C, its pure trueness.  

[lucaing]

Have fun from Fiaz:

"Hey guys,

To all those who are not happy with this proposal and are demanding a refund I will start with copying part of the update as it does address this: Just as a reminder what has happened since the start: you pre-ordered a product, then competitors arrived on the scene. In order to secure your loyalty, we increased the hashrate to 90Mh/s which is fair enough, then we took final payment at 90 (if we were any other company: chances are we would have as we could have stopped at this point, that is a fact), we then decided to increase to 250Mh/s despite the fact we didn't need to. We delayed and despite the fact our terms give us leeway in this: for the sake and in the interests of our customers we still decided to go yet another step further by giving you shares of our company for the rest of its existence without the need for you to spend an extra penny or work for us hence there is no catch this is technically something for nothing in so far as what we are legally obliged to provide you. All this on top of free shipping for batch 2 and 10% off any future batch of your choice; this is an unprecedented level of customer service. We have been crystal clear from the start with our cancellation policy so why you would order from us if you didn’t agree with it or worse you thought it wasn’t legal is beyond me. Customers who do not pay in full will of course not receive shares in our company, their orders will be cancelled subject to our cancellation policy; this is the final word on this. And while technically the due date has passed we of course haven’t cancelled anybody’s orders but at a certain point enough is enough. If we were any other company we wouldn’t be having this discussion, it is what it is, if I may be so bold we have gone above and beyond the call of duty for you; this is a fact. I am sorry it is your perception that you believe you are entitled to more from us however we have nothing left to give and can do nothing more for you. You paid for a 25Mh/s miner and everything on top is goodwill, this is simply a fact.

Thank you and I am sorry if my responses are too blunt I will work on it I am just proud of my company taking this action as I know these choices are never easy and it is always tempting to take an easy way out yet here we are doing our best and you can't ask for more than that. How many other ASIC companies out there would have gone to these lengths to keep your custom and loyalty. In any case I will leave the legal and executives to lay out their plan to you in the next update hopefully. Sorry for this sloppy post I will clean it up as soon as I can.

So in short we will not allow customers who only pay 30% to join the company and their orders will be subject to our cancellation policy. This is the final word on this as such any posts on this will be deleted and the poster will be PM'ed this post. I am sorry if this sounds harsh to you but the bottom line is aiming your frustrations at me will change nothing and not help you in any way: it is what it is and while it should go without saying: this is our final word.

You have paid for a miner which you will get, nothing has changed regarding this transaction except that we are giving something extra. I would like to say to some people that I have only been responding in kind to complaints that are unwarranted so if you would please work with me here constructively in order to help you instead of this hostility and nitpicking about pointless things just for the sake of it we will get somewhere and you will be better off for it as we've proven we directly make changes based on your input in this forum. This is just a fact that has obviously not gotten across to everybody yet; my goal and sole intention here is to work with you and help you so help me to do that instead of hindering me as you will only be helping yourself. Surely this makes sense?

Now if you take issue with my stance on this you are welcome to PM me."

[s1gs3gv]

[Slipknot79]

>We have been crystal clear from the start with our cancellation policy so why you would order from us if you didn’t agree with it or worse you thought it wasn’t legal is beyond me.

Wrong question. Its not "your" cancellation policy, its law that counts. We do accept the law, the DSR, which you dont accept and respect. We ordered because of the law, and not because you have written something in your T&C. I also can write bullshit and call it T&C, so what? It is not worth the paper you wrote on.

[s1gs3gv]

You have paid for a miner which you will get

Sure Fiaz … "NOT NEVER"

[s1gs3gv]

SHOW US THE PRODUCT FIAZ