Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Order Batch 1 Now!

[Scrappy Do]

Scrappy Do: you basically have no choice but to attend the hearing. There is nothing you can do other than to be present on the day. You can't win in court without actually going to court....

The small claims track is such that it is necessarily informal, meaning that ultimately you have to convince the judge that your story is more credible than theirs (Alpha Tech's). You do not have to prove something beyond reasonable doubt, as in a criminal prosecution, so the general gist is that you want a refund & that you feel you are entitled to one by DSR, and that you are not intending to operate the hardware as a business venture. The key point is that you have to demonstrate that the DSR's apply to you, because that is basically what this hinges on. You have to be able to show the judge that you were not buying this piece of equipment from a money-making (business) perspective.

That, I think, could be tricky - although the onus will be on AT to demonstrate that the purpose of the machine is to make money, so presumably they will have to give the usual bitcoin lecture to the judge and convince him of the money-making argument.

It comes down to when you bought this hardware, what was your intention to use it for? A commercial venture? Is there any other explanation? If it was mining indeed, then I think you will struggle to claim that you were not acting in a business capacity at the time you paid for the item. The fact you claim to be a consumer needs to be backed up in some way, and that you would use the device solely to generate income will almost certainly be the defences argument. You need to convince the judge that isn't the case. Because there is no proper registration procedure to act in a business capacity as a sole trader in the UK, you may find it hard to refute the fact that this was bought for any purpose other than mining and income generation. You could alternatively claim you didn't understand the agreement you were entering into, perhaps.

Compare this with buying a piece of specialist equipment used for physical gold mining (unless it was a spade, which is probably similar to a GPU in that it could be claimed to be used as a consumer product). Could you claim to be a consumer? Only if you could somehow argue that it was not a commercial venture, and planned to get gold from your garden to wear personally (and not sell) - which doesn't apply to bitcoins.

In case you accept that you are acting in a business capacity (in your own name, Joe Bloggs, ie as a sole trader), then your argument will be completely different - it will be that the terms of the original contract have been breached and so you are entitled to a refund.

 The problem I see with that is you can earn extra income without being a business. You simply claim it on your taxes. 2 machines would not qualify you as a business, nor any amount for that matter. I can prove I do not have any business license, nor any tax id.

 Correct me if I am wrong, but someone (perhaps on this forum) could represent me in court due to the obvious travel reasons.

 Also, I could travel and represent myself and claim it towards the claim as I had no other means of recovering the funds. I'm down $6500 USD right now, and the maximum at current rate in USD I can go to small claims in the uk is about 13,390.

[Xell]

The problem I see with that is you can earn extra income without being a business. You simply claim it on your taxes. 2 machines would not qualify you as a business, nor any amount for that matter. I can prove I do not have any business license, nor any tax id.

If you are earning extra income then you are running a business - the term 'business' has a only a very loose meaning in the UK. It does not mean the same thing a company, which requires registration and needs to submit accounts to a national record.

I could go online now,and order 1,000 units of something and if my intention was to resell then that is a business venture and I would be classed as a sole trader (basically doing business but under my name and with personal liability). It does not need to be full time or long term. The difference between a 'business' and a 'company' is massive - a company has lots of rules where as a sole trader business has virtually no enforced regulation. There is no concept of a 'business licence' in Britain.

As for court representation, I do no think that you can go through small claims track without being physically present, the underlying concept is that basically the judge decides which of two witnesses he will rule in favour of. It's informal so it is less of a legal battle and more a case of convincing the judge that you are being reasonable and deserve the outcome in your favour. There is unlikely to be anyone else present other than the judge, you, AT and a clerk - and it will be in a small room with only a desk (more than likely). I'm not an expert but even if you could have someone else represent you, that is not in the spirit of the small claims track and would count against you (although I doubt it is permitted).

[Scrappy Do]

The problem I see with that is you can earn extra income without being a business. You simply claim it on your taxes. 2 machines would not qualify you as a business, nor any amount for that matter. I can prove I do not have any business license, nor any tax id.

If you are earning extra income then you are running a business - the term 'business' has a only a very loose meaning in the UK. It does not mean the same thing a company, which requires registration and needs to submit accounts to a national record.

I could go online now,and order 1,000 units of something and if my intention was to resell then that is a business venture and I would be classed as a sole trader (basically doing business but under my name and with personal liability). It does not need to be full time or long term. The difference between a 'business' and a 'company' is massive - a company has lots of rules where as a sole trader business has virtually no enforced regulation. There is no concept of a 'business licence' in Britain.

As for court representation, I do no think that you can go through small claims track without being physically present, the underlying concept is that basically the judge decides which of two witnesses he will rule in favour of. It's informal so it is less of a legal battle and more a case of convincing the judge that you are being reasonable and deserve the outcome in your favour. There is unlikely to be anyone else present other than the judge, you, AT and a clerk - and it will be in a small room with only a desk (more than likely). I'm not an expert but even if you could have someone else represent you, that is not in the spirit of the small claims track and would count against you (although I doubt it is permitted).

 Actually I have to disagree. You are not considered a business by a simple purchase. Example, My wife drags me yard selling, I find a comic book I know is worth $1000 and pay a dime. I then sell it for $500 that same day. In no way shape or form am I considered a business. I simply have to claim the extra income on my taxes.

 Another example... I buy a Collectors Edition Diablo game for $90. Suddenly someone is willing to give me $250. I sell and claim the extra income on taxes. That is not a business. 

[Slipknot79]

Its easy to show dat this isnt business.
You purchased a device that is worthless and this you did know at the moment of purchase (difficulty will rise). You never will hit ROI, you will only do losses and you did know this at purchase date. Its more a hobby for you than making profit with this (Sense of business). You would like to collect coins (as others collect stamps etc...) , and you did not intend to sell them. But you decided to change your hobby, you would like to fly RC helicopters, drive RC Cars, play drums, etc...



BUT use other arguments also:
-> They will sell a different product than ordered. (No PSU, no WiFi, ...) So they changed the specifications. But you do not want to install cables in your flat/House.
-> They didnt deliver as promised with an update.
-> Look back some pages (retro and others have provided good arguments)

[Scrappy Do]

Its easy to show dat this isnt business.
You purchased a device that is worthless and this you did know at the moment of purchase (difficulty will rise). You never will hit ROI, you will only do losses and you did know this at purchase date. Its more a hobby for you than making profit with this. You would like to collect coins (as others collect stamps etc...) , and you did not intend to sell them. But you decided to change your hobby, you would like to fly RC helicopters, drive RC Cars, play drums, etc...



BUT use other arguments also:
-> They sell another product than ordered. (No PSU, no WiFi, ...) So they changed the specifications. But you do not want to install cables in your flat/House.
-> They didnt deliver as promised with an update.
-> Look back some pages (retro and others have provided good arguments)

 Retro has, and is invaluable in this aspect. The problem is we need a fully concise document as a claim, and no one has done this. As I stated earlier, we really need this as a baseline, and if I am the first to hit them with it, we can modify it and change approach as needed depending on outcome.

 Basically, first time they lose, they are fucked and will fold as anyone can simply cite that case.

[retro72]

Actually I have to disagree. You are not considered a business by a simple purchase. Example, My wife drags me yard selling, I find a comic book I know is worth $1000 and pay a dime. I then sell it for $500 that same day. In no way shape or form am I considered a business. I simply have to claim the extra income on my taxes.

 Another example... I buy a Collectors Edition Diablo game for $90. Suddenly someone is willing to give me $250. I sell and claim the extra income on taxes. That is not a business. 

The business argument doesn't float. You CAN mine as a business but you don't have to. Cryptos are not considered a currency by HMRC so these are not money making machines. That would be like saying a 3d printer is a money making machine because I CAN sell the items I produce. That is not the case. Cryptos are more like stocks. I can and have invested in a stocks at the start of the year and sold them for a profit at the end of the year. I pay Capital Gains Tax on the profit as an individual I am not a stock trading business this is a one time event.

You can mine coins and hold them for years, you will only make a chargeable event when you sell them and that will be a capital gain which can be done as an individual. If you mine and dump your coins every week for income THAT will be a business. Alpha have to PROVE you were going to do the latter to say you are a business. As they have not mentioned this caveat anywhere in their terms or made even the vaguest attempt to identify you as a business, this will be almost impossible.

Also, they initially said they complied with the DSR, but that it didn't apply to deposits. Only after this argument was picked apart did they change to "you are a business". Moreover they have breached their T&Cs several times which makes them null and void and totally unenforceable.

Personally I wouldn't formulate your arguments here in a open forum. I suggest Alpha customers communicate via PM. We know Fiaz lurked here and Mubasher probably does too, you don't want to give him the heads up.

[retro72]

Thanks again!  I owe you some rounds of beer if you're ever in Chicago.  Is the residential address that you listed for Mubasher or another Alpha employee?

I believe its probably the family address. So I would expect to find Mubasher there.

[Searing]

Hmm, couple of immediate observations.

1/ TEN PCI-E power connections?!

2/ didn't they in the previous update once again change their mind and say the PSU would in fact come with the miner be internal to allow rack mounting (as they tout in the update)? That case in the pictures requires external PSUs purely from the placement of the of the PCI-E power connectors.

3/ Holy airflow restriction batman! With the front and back with those tiny holes that thing is going to overheat in a second!

4/ They say they are redesigning the PCBs again to move from 36 ASICs to 12 per board, going to be a lot of boards in that case, and I guess that means all the pretty CAD lego drawings of PCBs they provided in the previous update are now completely worthless (like everything else that comes from this company).

man I'm so glad I got my amex refund and got away with my $$$ back from these dorks....they illogic/denial and just plain stupidity is boundless!

but watching this thread is like sitting around an 20 story apartment fire hoping others sprint out of the doorway to safety and join the few here who at least
got a cc refund....kinda hard when the fire dept is alpha and they are spraying the fire with gasoline don't ya know ...claiming no no ..its water!

this whole thread and alpha in particular is 'disturbingly fascinating'....but I get the sense if I stare at the 'logic' they are using in their
lack of ethics/denial/history of the TOS and other shenanigans...I may be mesmerized enough to be sucked into their twisted logic...
thus warping my fragile little mind trying to follow the thought process that somehow they can take 30% of your cash in a protected manner
and only deliver the product if you pay the last 70% in an unprotected manner...add the fact there likely will NEVER be a product and thats
when the further logic of alpha's thinking starts to  breakdown in detail ..I can only hold so much denial in my mind at one time
I just can't multitask denial........well they lose me at that point...stock options...only if you paid in full...no
chips yet ..because have to re-do the tapeout....the mind literally boggles at their madness...

it is like it is lord of the rings over there at alpha with their 'non-refundable' 'my precious' $$$ clutched in their hands as they fall into the lava
the self destructive dark side of the force it strong at alpha...they wanted to make a big 'splash' in the asic world...well that is not going to
happen ..so their ego's must be massaged so if they can't make a big splash..they will make an even more spectacular SPLAT...

I mean get a clue!

(back to reading this thread and having a snack....FML ..this thread is interesting if inherently EVIL.....hope there are no long
term mental issues following these dorks......I mean if they can just make stuff up like this..hey I can make up that I'm in a relationship
with Katie Holmes...(closes eyes concentrates...nope did not work)...damn it!

somehow they can do it....alpha I mean... self delude at an almost super human level....I .must have this Jedi mind trick to fool myself into the "happy place" that
I'm dating 12 super models.....alas.....logic prevails in my case ..and fails in their case...and now I'm out with alpha refund..but no way to
learn their anti-logic secret so I can 'ahem amend' my reality for a super model harem...curse you alpha you have done it again....your
super human denial of logic and reality has killed this dream of mine as well....fiends they are!

moving on

Searing

[coinits]

I got this today:

                    Greetings Miners!

As promised we want to provide you updates as often as possible covering as much as possible in the lead up to shipment. Here is our enclosure which has rack mount provisions.

Both the front and back side of the enclosure have 3 fans fitted.

The Scrypt boards will be placed in vertical fashion inside the enclosure so that air flow can be maintained at 2m/sec and higher.

The Controller board will be placed on top of the Scrypt boards on a plate (as shown in the pic). All the fan connectors will terminate on this board.

The Power distribution boards will be mounted on the back side of the enclosure so that cables from the power supply can be directly connected to it. The Ethernet connection will come out of the controller board which can be directly connected to a router/switch using a CAT5-E Ethernet cable.

After further consideration we may break the Scrypt boards into multiple smaller boards because of the size of the current boards and thermal reasons; this is being evaluated right now. In all likelihood each Scrypt board will have 12 chips instead of 36 chips as planned earlier.

Tape-out is progressing with good speed and we are on track to ship in September. We will soon be releasing full details of our proposition to you, it will of course take some time for the legal and accounting team to put it together so please bear with us; you will be emailed when it’s ready.

Best Regards,

Mohammed Akram

Director

 

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[retro72]

Honestly I can't figure out how anyone can take this guy seriously. This "Development Update" (https://alpha-t.net/news/developmental-update-08082014/) just proves Alpha were lying when they said they only found out the tapeout failed in early July.

Mubasher Akram
Managing Director
Administrator
Re: Alpha-Tech Developmental Update 08/08/2014

« Reply #3 on: Today at 12:49:42 PM »

There are several modifications being made to this enclosure. The smaller holes are primarily because the vendor had to make tooling for bigger ones which would have taken time and this one was readily available. The version shown was our prototype of the enclosure and was primarily made for mock fit out arrangements of PCBs and fans.

These are the some of the major modifications that will be done in the final enclosure you will receive:

 1)     Vertical insertion of up to 15 Scrypt boards with card guides.

2)     Rear Panel fan will have full cutout with only finger guard. No holes at all there.

3)     Telescopic rails holes for rack rails mounting.

Also though we have provision for 12 PCI-E connectors, the 50 M/hs will require fewer connections from the power supply.

Its the 8th of August and this is still a prototype enclosure, still being modified. The PCB design has not yet been finalised. Yet they were still ADVERTISING they were going to be shipping in July as late as 20th of June AND were still trying to take credit card payments from 15th of July onward until the CC processor shut it down. This shows a clear intention to deceive their customers. To have had ANY hope of shipping from July 15th they should have had many hundreds of cases, PCBs, Power supplies etc, sitting in a warehouse waiting for the chips. Right now they don't even have one finished case!!

I think Mubasher Akram will be lucky not to get thrown in jail if he goes in front of a Judge with his cockamamie defense. Every time he opens his mouth he digs a bigger hole for himself.

[bumface]

no PSU, tell me you`re joking!

Power consumption: <=1875 Watts


a 1500 watt PC PSU is 309 euro here!!!!!!!!!! are you telling me i have to pay 5450 GBP + 21% Dutch tax + a fucking 400 euro PSU!??!!

original full copy of the januari website states "Power consumption: <= 600w"


it also says "Appropriate power supply for customer country shall be provided."

this psu shit will cost me an addition 300 to 400 euro


5450 GBP = 6837.74 Euro

6837.74 Euro .... 21% = 1435.9254 TAX
                                                               +
----------------------------------------------------------

8273,6654
 400 PSU
                                                               +
----------------------------------------------------------
8673.6654 euro A.K.A 11618 dollar

Scrypt Multipool         0.00056173           BTC/MHs
http://poolpicker.eu/


0.00056173 x 250MH/S = 0,1404325 per day  (82.29 USD)

11618 dollar / 82.29 USD = Breakeven point 136,2176105053347 days (4,394116467914024 months)

ow yeah and did i mention the 29 dollarcent per kilowatt energy prices in the netherlands? which is €3800.088 (5087.82 US Dollar) per YEAR

and all this glory could be mine IF i get a machine next month

year 1 total income 51,2578625 btc = 30074.53 USD
Year 1 total costs 12473,7534 euro = 16697.17 US Dollar   -
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     13377,36 dollar profit
*IF i get it next month,
*IF multipool payouts remain constant
*IF btc price does not fall,
*IF powercosts do not rise                                                     
*IF hardware doesnt break down during or after warranty period

[maildir]

Yes something quite suspicious about those pictures in particular the third one down:

https://alpha-t.net/news/developmental-update-08082014/

To me that looks like dust on that closest lip with finger smudges in the dust as well.  Where has this thing been hiding all this time one must wonder? Being held for ransom i.e. payment? You would thing a week ago two weeks ago, before the whole thing was about to blow up they would have been able to say hold one our chassis is right now being manufactured and will be showable in two weeks time (now). But nothing a week ago, two weeks ago, 1 month ago. And with the stroke of a magic want without any mention at all, not even an inkling, these pictures suddenly show up?

[bumface]

the website is now offline 

[s1gs3gv]

Tape-out is progressing with good speed and we are on track to ship in September.

That is a pretty amazing statement. It was 3 months after KNC finished the Neptune tape-out before they received wafers.
It has been over 2 months since KNC finished tape-out on the Titan and they don't have wafers yet.

But Alpha-T still hasn't finished tape-out and they are going to ship next month ?

[Derekman]

Can someone tell me where in the world a Crypto currency is a recognised currency?

As i understand it HMRC see it as a personal traceable asset.

My experience of Small Claims is the Judge acts as inquisitor of both cases. I got a roasting once and judge found in my favour. went totally against all the signs.

I intend to throw every piece of law i can find at them and see if they stick. Distance Selling Regs, unfair trading regs, etc

Also they cannot cancel the contract because you ask for a refund. It is an unfair term. They have gained a pecuniary advantage.

The bottom line is if you have paid in full more than 10 weeks ago they have breached contract.

Further, a court may find that the contract only commenced from the 8 weeks after final payment as that is the time when they should have started shipping and there for the contract commences then. as they did not it could be viewed that they were negligent/in breach of the statutory duty owed under Section 5(2)(b) of the consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008
      “ it causes or is likely to cause the average consumer to take transactional decisions he would not have taken otherwise”

plus i am concerned they knew problems end of April as the Development updates stopped and then they would be in breach of the Fraud Act

Besides i am not only relying upon the right to cancel on the Distance regs i also am seeking judgment on their ability to be unable to perform the contract and Schedule 2 of the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 Sections 1(b);(d);(g);(m); and (o).

Check em out, they may offer alternative routes to make a statement of claim. Personally i am kitchen sinking them and see what the judge says.

just a little extra -
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/briefs/vat/brief0914.htm
"1.Income received from Bitcoin mining activities will generally be outside the scope of VAT on the basis that the activity does not constitute an economic activity for VAT purposes because there is an insufficient link between any services provided and any consideration received."

I know it is vague but  with other evidence, some anecdotal, like is owning a camera, is it a business activity if you are a hobbyist and sell a few? Would most likely get you the benefit of the doubt. So selling selling a digital camera to a consumer or a professional would be a good parallel. Even if you would like the produced to pay for itself over a period of time. Does that make you a business? really? one uses it in his everyday work and another in his spare time. that i would imagine applies to the vast majority of AT customers. Therefore consumers.

Remember EVERYTHING is up for debate and a matter of perspective in a court room this will be no exception and most likely the judge will have had little experience of this market so it will be new to them and they will rely upon experience and intuition.
Intuition would not come down favourably on AT side as these products will not make money ever so how can they be a business activity. it is illogical to buy a machine that will not make enough for your to live on. so ok some have bought four or five or more of the big ones. they might have a tougher time arguing this. those who bought one unit should be able to argue the points.

Add it to ATs stance and timeline and most judges who see this sort of thing everyday may not look favourably on them.

[s1gs3gv]

This is what I have to say about that piece of crap looking case Alpha-T threw together 10 months after the start of the project in order to try to convince  the public, customers, CC processors, Paypal et all that they are actually real and doing something useful with the millions of dollars they probably raised in pre-orders.

[Nullu]

the website is now offline 

Working here.

[SpecT]

no PSU, tell me you`re joking!

Power consumption: <=1875 Watts


a 1500 watt PC PSU is 309 euro here!!!!!!!!!! are you telling me i have to pay 5450 GBP + 21% Dutch tax + a fucking 400 euro PSU!??!!

original full copy of the januari website states "Power consumption: <= 600w"


it also says "Appropriate power supply for customer country shall be provided."

this psu shit will cost me an addition 300 to 400 euro


5450 GBP = 6837.74 Euro

6837.74 Euro .... 21% = 1435.9254 TAX
                                                               +
----------------------------------------------------------

8273,6654
 400 PSU
                                                               +
----------------------------------------------------------
8673.6654 euro A.K.A 11618 dollar

Scrypt Multipool         0.00056173           BTC/MHs
http://poolpicker.eu/


0.00056173 x 250MH/S = 0,1404325 per day  (82.29 USD)

11618 dollar / 82.29 USD = Breakeven point 136,2176105053347 days (4,394116467914024 months)

ow yeah and did i mention the 29 dollarcent per kilowatt energy prices in the netherlands? which is €3800.088 (5087.82 US Dollar) per YEAR

and all this glory could be mine IF i get a machine next month

year 1 total income 51,2578625 btc = 30074.53 USD
Year 1 total costs 12473,7534 euro = 16697.17 US Dollar   -
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     13377,36 dollar profit
*IF i get it next month,
*IF multipool payouts remain constant
*IF btc price does not fall,
*IF powercosts do not rise                                                     
*IF hardware doesnt break down during or after warranty period

Take 2 1000 kW or 3 700 Watt PSU ....

[Scrappy Do]

 Back on fucking topic....

 Stop with the bitching and moaning, and concentrate on the end goal. Forget the I told you so's.


Again, rants and I told you so's are not helping. What we need is....

Ok guys I need some help. I just got my papers back, and Alpha is defending the claim I had on them. They sent me the paperwork for small claims track. Is anyone at this stage? They used the same shitty ass copy and paste response as a defence in this claim. Also their response is different than the original tos. I need some help guys...

Here's a link, they are backwards the way they were sent, so start from the bottom. http://imgur.com/a/2IbnV

[Scrappy Do]

I know I'm preaching to the choir, but never buy from an unknown source like this. Alpha has never shown the product just fed us bullshit and still found greedy people willing to send them money.

 Useless info... You are the fucking choir, and it helps no one here to hear it.