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Author Topic: -- The Riddle of the Twin Brothers - Who Were, Are and Will Rule the World!  (Read 356445 times)
publicjud
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January 14, 2014, 11:44:37 PM
 #181

Vlad2Vlad, you have any Ixcoins to sell a person?

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Vlad2Vlad
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January 15, 2014, 12:36:16 AM
 #182

Vlad2Vlad, you have any Ixcoins to sell a person?


No way, but you can buy them on exchanges.

I'm trying to figure out how to buy back the coins I gave our programmer to help pay for his work.  I haven't sold anything yet and I plan to hold until at least $10.

iXcoin - Welcome to the F U T U R E!
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January 15, 2014, 12:39:35 AM
 #183

Vlad2Vlad, you have any Ixcoins to sell a person?


Wait a minute, you wanna buy iXCoin?  I thought you were one of the skeptical ones?  What made you change your mind?


I'm glad if you changed your mind.  I think it's the right choice.

Sorry I can't sell any but you can buy fairly cheap now on cryptsy or vircurex.  It's hard to buy larger quantities but like 1 BTC is very doable.

Good luck!

iXcoin - Welcome to the F U T U R E!
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January 15, 2014, 01:51:40 AM
 #184

Vlad2Vlad, you have any Ixcoins to sell a person?


Wait a minute, you wanna buy iXCoin?  I thought you were one of the skeptical ones?  What made you change your mind?


I'm glad if you changed your mind.  I think it's the right choice.

Sorry I can't sell any but you can buy fairly cheap now on cryptsy or vircurex.  It's hard to buy larger quantities but like 1 BTC is very doable.

Good luck!

I am skeptical.  But the coin is so cheap right now what is there to loose?    I see the point you make, but at the same time, I also believe a shorter block time/multi ecrypted coin will take over bitcoin copy cats...  I'm still looking for my perfect coin to go all in on....

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January 15, 2014, 05:02:30 PM
 #185

Vlad2Vlad, you have any Ixcoins to sell a person?


Wait a minute, you wanna buy iXCoin?  I thought you were one of the skeptical ones?  What made you change your mind?


I'm glad if you changed your mind.  I think it's the right choice.

Sorry I can't sell any but you can buy fairly cheap now on cryptsy or vircurex.  It's hard to buy larger quantities but like 1 BTC is very doable.

Good luck!

I am skeptical.  But the coin is so cheap right now what is there to loose?    I see the point you make, but at the same time, I also believe a shorter block time/multi ecrypted coin will take over bitcoin copy cats...  I'm still looking for my perfect coin to go all in on....


Vlad... you're the economist.

Can you explain to him that the cost of any scarce good is related to the cost of acquiring (i.e mining) said goods?

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Vlad2Vlad
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January 15, 2014, 05:42:07 PM
 #186

Vlad2Vlad, you have any Ixcoins to sell a person?


Wait a minute, you wanna buy iXCoin?  I thought you were one of the skeptical ones?  What made you change your mind?


I'm glad if you changed your mind.  I think it's the right choice.

Sorry I can't sell any but you can buy fairly cheap now on cryptsy or vircurex.  It's hard to buy larger quantities but like 1 BTC is very doable.

Good luck!

I am skeptical.  But the coin is so cheap right now what is there to loose?    I see the point you make, but at the same time, I also believe a shorter block time/multi ecrypted coin will take over bitcoin copy cats...  I'm still looking for my perfect coin to go all in on....

Don't you understand that the block time can be changed with a simple code update?

Don't you understand that PoS can be added to any coin with a simple code update?

If what you say were true, Bitcoin would have updated its code and so would all the other coins like IXC, so this advantage you speak of is a joke as it can be copied anytime by any coin.

But what cannot be copied is the near 9 peta hash of secure mining power. And that is the single biggest need for any coin in order for it to ever be used on a massive scale. 

And of course, the economics of it all - 1 Tera hash mines you 1,000 IXC per year while you can buy 7,000 for 1 BTC.  In other words, IXC is way cheap now and its value should reflect the necessary resources to mine it.

Merge mining aside of course.

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January 15, 2014, 07:03:08 PM
 #187

I don't understand why it's so hard for people to understand why network security makes or breaks a coin and the fact that any other feature or advantage of a coin can be easily duplicated, copied and implemented by any other coin. 

There are absolutely no barriers to copying things like block-time and PoS yet people gamble on CrapCoins based on these useless, easy to copy features while ignoring the most important feature of all and one which is very difficult to copy and implant, and that is the network hashrate which is the security if any coin.
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January 15, 2014, 07:05:35 PM
 #188

Don't you understand that the block time can be changed with a simple code update?

Don't you understand that PoS can be added to any coin with a simple code update?

If what you say were true, Bitcoin would have updated its code and so would all the other coins like IXC, so this advantage you speak of is a joke as it can be copied anytime by any coin.

But what cannot be copied is the near 9 peta hash of secure mining power. And that is the single biggest need for any coin in order for it to ever be used on a massive scale. 

And of course, the economics of it all - 1 Tera hash mines you 1,000 IXC per year while you can buy 7,000 for 1 BTC.  In other words, IXC is way cheap now and its value should reflect the necessary resources to mine it.

Merge mining aside of course.

Let's see,  let's do the math here,   7 peta hash is 7,000 terahash.  A single tera hash miner costs around $6,000.    So to mine 1/7,000 of IXC in a year will cost $6,000 worth of mining hardware.   Approximately, 5 million coins are mined per year.  5 million / 7,000 - yields 720 coins per 1 THs miner.  In short,  $6,000 worth of equipment mines you in a year, 720 IXC. At 12 cents a coin,  that $6,000 miner will mine $86 worth of IXC in a year!  

Vlad,  another point that you need to explain to people who aren't familiar with economics it the notion of "bundling".  See, people are in the mistaken notion that coins that are merged mine come for free.  

This of course is incorrect because you can't get NMC and IXC without actually mining for BTC.   The current ROI of miners typically involves the mining of BTC, NMC and IXC combined.  Just like you mine copper to get gold, its the same thing.  You don't mine IXC by itself,  if so, you will go broke trying!

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January 15, 2014, 07:11:09 PM
 #189

I don't understand why it's so hard for people to understand why network security makes or breaks a coin and the fact that any other feature or advantage of a coin can be easily duplicated, copied and implemented by any other coin. 

There are absolutely no barriers to copying things like block-time and PoS yet people gamble on CrapCoins based on these useless, easy to copy features while ignoring the most important feature of all and one which is very difficult to copy and implant, and that is the network hashrate which is the security if any coin.

I think right now,  crypto-currencies are so new that people have no clue as to how to evaluate it.

Network Hash Rate is almost the equivalent of P/E for stocks.   You can compare stocks by looking at their P/E ratio.

Maybe something like price  * network hash rate  / (# of outstanding coins)  should be introduced so people can evaluate cois correctly.

Here's a formula   price  * network hash rate   /  (# of outstanding coins) + (coins created per year)

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January 15, 2014, 07:14:05 PM
 #190

Correct, Friction, and besides that $6,000 for hardware you'd also pay close to $3,000 in Electricity costs per year - which comes out to nearly $10,000 to mine essentially $150 worth of iXCoin compared to buying then outright right now.

Most people do think you just get ixCoin for free but the fact is you'd have to mine the gold, to get the silver, which in this case is BTC and IXC.


Most people presume that they'd mine BTC anyway but the fact is that some wish to mine other SHA coins and you can't presume that BTC will always be around in its current profitable state so then, why not accumulate a coin which is currently selling for roughly 1/100th it's cost to mine.  For me that's a no brainier which is why I bought all the iXCoin I could afford...and then I sold my truck and bought more.  lol.

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January 15, 2014, 07:16:37 PM
 #191

I don't understand why it's so hard for people to understand why network security makes or breaks a coin and the fact that any other feature or advantage of a coin can be easily duplicated, copied and implemented by any other coin.  

There are absolutely no barriers to copying things like block-time and PoS yet people gamble on CrapCoins based on these useless, easy to copy features while ignoring the most important feature of all and one which is very difficult to copy and implant, and that is the network hashrate which is the security if any coin.

I think right now,  crypto-currencies are so new that people have no clue as to how to evaluate it.

Network Hash Rate is almost the equivalent of P/E for stocks.   You can compare stocks by looking at their P/E ratio.

Maybe something like price  * network hash rate  / (# of outstanding coins)  should be introduced so people can evaluate cois correctly.

Here's a formula   price  * network hash rate   /  (# of outstanding coins) + (coins created per year)

Man, you come up with some brilliant shit.

Bravo!

I'll see if I can put a formula together based on your post to do exactly that, value each coin on its most important feature:  its network security.

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January 15, 2014, 07:20:23 PM
 #192

I don't understand why it's so hard for people to understand why network security makes or breaks a coin and the fact that any other feature or advantage of a coin can be easily duplicated, copied and implemented by any other coin.  

There are absolutely no barriers to copying things like block-time and PoS yet people gamble on CrapCoins based on these useless, easy to copy features while ignoring the most important feature of all and one which is very difficult to copy and implant, and that is the network hashrate which is the security if any coin.

I think right now,  crypto-currencies are so new that people have no clue as to how to evaluate it.

Network Hash Rate is almost the equivalent of P/E for stocks.   You can compare stocks by looking at their P/E ratio.

Maybe something like price  * network hash rate  / (# of outstanding coins)  should be introduced so people can evaluate cois correctly.

Here's a formula   price  * network hash rate   /  (# of outstanding coins) + (coins created per year)

Man, you come up with some brilliant shit.

Bravo!

I'll see if I can put a formula together based on your post to do exactly that, value each coin on its most important feature:  its network security.

Yes, please come up with a table for comparison.  A lot of people need a lot of hand holding!!

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January 15, 2014, 07:25:10 PM
 #193

I did some quick math.

Assuming it costs .11/KwH  and 600 watts per 1 TH/s machine.  Total electricity costs alone is:  578.56 USD.

I short, the 720 IXC that you mine isn't even going to cover electricity costs!!!

No wonder not many miners are selling their IXC!

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January 15, 2014, 07:43:05 PM
 #194

I did some quick math.

Assuming it costs .11/KwH  and 600 watts per 1 TH/s machine.  Total electricity costs alone is:  578.56 USD.

I short, the 720 IXC that you mine isn't even going to cover electricity costs!!!

No wonder not many miners are selling their IXC!

And apparently people don't want IXC either because the price is so low.

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January 15, 2014, 07:47:05 PM
 #195

I did some quick math.

Assuming it costs .11/KwH  and 600 watts per 1 TH/s machine.  Total electricity costs alone is:  578.56 USD.

I short, the 720 IXC that you mine isn't even going to cover electricity costs!!!

No wonder not many miners are selling their IXC!

And apparently people don't want IXC either because the price is so low.

Well, the hash rate has moved much faster than the price.  So right now, it clearly is extremely undervalued.

Of course, I have absolutely no clue what you meant by your statement.

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January 15, 2014, 07:50:12 PM
 #196

I did some quick math.

Assuming it costs .11/KwH  and 600 watts per 1 TH/s machine.  Total electricity costs alone is:  578.56 USD.

I short, the 720 IXC that you mine isn't even going to cover electricity costs!!!

No wonder not many miners are selling their IXC!

And apparently people don't want IXC either because the price is so low.

Well, the hash rate has moved much faster than the price.  So right now, it clearly is extremely undervalued.

Of course, I have absolutely no clue what you meant by your statement.

My point is, just saying it cost 100 dollars to make a certain item, does not mean there is a market for item at 100....


If it cost 1million to mine 1 BTC would not make the price of BTC go to 1 million.....

And it could be over supplied as easily as undervalued....

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FrictionlessCoin
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January 15, 2014, 07:58:48 PM
 #197

I did some quick math.

Assuming it costs .11/KwH  and 600 watts per 1 TH/s machine.  Total electricity costs alone is:  578.56 USD.

I short, the 720 IXC that you mine isn't even going to cover electricity costs!!!

No wonder not many miners are selling their IXC!

And apparently people don't want IXC either because the price is so low.

Well, the hash rate has moved much faster than the price.  So right now, it clearly is extremely undervalued.

Of course, I have absolutely no clue what you meant by your statement.

My point is, just saying it cost 100 dollars to make a certain item, does not mean there is a market for item at 100....


If it cost 1million to mine 1 BTC would not make the price of BTC go to 1 million.....

And it could be over supplied as easily as undervalued....

If there is a cost to acquire and item,  then the owner of the item will be less inclined to sell it at a loss.   If there is no cost to acquire an item (see: NXT,  coins with low difficulty),  then owners have no issue at selling it at any price for a profit.

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digitalindustry
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January 16, 2014, 06:24:40 PM
Last edit: January 16, 2014, 06:37:08 PM by digitalindustry
 #198

Sh!t. Just remembered you.

You told me once you hold 500k IXC.

Like 2 months ago, in cryptsy chat.

Brother, are you the guy from across the Danube?  Did you buy any IXC at half a penny back then when I urged you to?  You said you would so I hope you did and I hope you haven't sold yet cause this thing is just getting started.  

And yes, I own 3% and I have not sold a single coin.

Good luck!

did you buy Quark like i told you Vlad ? - its literally just getting started .

re IXC - i haven't really followed this whole topic ?

perhaps you might want to read though Neutral Control Principal & Theory : -  http://forum.qrk.cc/thread/1416/neutral-control-principal-theory

I read your Neutral Control Theory.  

Very interesting and well written.

Problem is that the theory is fundamentally flawed.  Think of the socialism theory - just like your theory, it sounds beautiful on paper, but the problem is that in real life it all has to be implemented by humans.

And the fundamental flaw with humans is that they're self serving and corrupt.

So if you think that an already powerful govt is going to take a digital currency which takes away freedoms from the masses and in turn they will voluntarily give up power instead of taking more power and using the new technology which tracks every move of every human on earth and then voluntarily also give up control over monetary controls then you have neglected the most basic premise of humanity:  greed and corruption of the human heart and the absolute fact that as more power and control is given to any body of government, they always, absolutely, abuse that power and use it to their gain - for their self interests.

History has proved this many times over yet we keep eating the same lies while giving up our freedoms to self serving humans who will inevitably act in their evil self interests.

Therefore, this Neutral Theory is nothing more than another hopeless dream which will be used [effectively] to sell this Digital Cash idea to the masses but when it's all said and done, when it's too late to turn back, the masses will realize they have given up the last bastion of hope, freedom and expression.

just some point Vlad -  no "insiders" own anywhere near any % like that of Quark actually QRK is one of the best distributed crypto that exists - but I'll let you find that out yourself later.  

as regards Neutral Control Theory - i'd respectfully suggest a re- read, but having said that i understand where you come from , i'm currently undertaking a bit of a psychological analysis of "apathetic citizens"  -

so for you to read the NCT principal and see it for what it is, would be very difficult, ( i understand this )  but in this aspect i want to help .

how you are seeing things incorrectly  I will break down the ways into parts for you:

1. You are seeing  "Government" as a single entity - that is to say if you visualized "Government" you might visualizes a large strong monolith for example.
why is this incorrect ?

Government is just a group of people with different individual levels of corruption.


2. You see only "Government" as the problem.
Why is this incorrect ?

This seems to be a prevalent and important flaw in the thought process of an "apathetic citizen" -  because with only one side of the story how can you (or anyone with the similar view) ever expect to understand how corruption works ?
Government for simplicity sake is the one half of a two part power "sharing" system -  i will break it down for you and give you some examples :

Corporations V Government.

"The Bank" V  "The King".

The Money Issuance Power V The Guns and Hardware.   (broadly stated industrial capacity also military industrial capacity)


I could go on but this is the biggest flaw that distorts your vision in this regard -

back to 2014 > NCT is an inevitable theory that grants neutral control, the reason and how this will occur is because it can not be stopped, you are misunderstanding the nature of "Neutral Control" i tried to highlight it at the end of the document but its a difficult point to clearly get across -

so "powerful Government" (and incorrect statement in most cases around the world) will not have a choice but to select Neutral control as it will occur anyhow, for the Government it is a positive thing, the losers are the holders of the power of issuance over the "ongoing mechanics of currency issuance" .

so I'm going to stop right here and prove you wrong and me correct .

- answer this line :

Q - Who issues the currency of the nation ?

A - you say not the Government (in most cases) and  you are correct .


Q - who loses out in an NTC situation ?

A - the issuing power , which you have agreed is NOT the Government .


Q- then could the "government" benefit from NCT ?

A- that would be up to the individual Government, i.e the sum of its corrupted whole.  


Feel free to read the document again -  http://forum.qrk.cc/thread/1416/neutral-control-principal-theory

also see how a Government would execute a NTC Crypto - http://forum.qrk.cc/thread/1512/understanding-neutral-control-principal-government   < i use a picture of a BFL device mostly for sweet irony.


** man this new DNA is really helping me think !

- Twitter @Kolin_Quark
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January 16, 2014, 06:46:42 PM
 #199

Digital,

I'm aware the govt is merely half of the corruption and the head is actually those who control the money which is the fed and the large banks.

I merely focused on the govt as they will be the ones who implement these new laws and so they are the flaw or problem in any new legislation.

Honest presidents gave tried to break free of the banks in the past and they were murdered.  It's simply not gonna happen.  You would need a massive revolution for that, a revolution most likely funded by dirty bank money so in the end they fund both sides and any corruption you take out of the system would come right back in due time as the creation and theft of money from the masses and ultimately their enslavement is always the goal.


As for quark, insiders either do hold massive amounts of they don't.  It's not a trivial question.  I have read they do which is a deal breaker for me.

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January 16, 2014, 06:59:00 PM
 #200



As for quark, insiders either do hold massive amounts of they don't.  It's not a trivial question.  I have read they do which is a deal breaker for me.

What do you call massive amounts?  If I recall you own a "massive amount" of IXC......

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