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[solosss]

this will stop only the part of the botnet that pays for the captcha, the real botnet networks will continue to work, will increase only because you have reduced the payment of bitcoins
we'll have to figure something out, but I'm sure it won't stop us either. this shows how you treat your users.

It shows the damage you and other bot users do to our genuine customers. There is a finite amount we can give away for free and every cent taken by bots is a cent we can't give to a real user.

you can't faucet your casino website and you earn only on the fact that people will lose you on the website. if you do not want to give equal conditions to all - why do you do it?

[TheQuin]

you can't faucet your casino website and you earn only on the fact that people will lose you on the website. if you do not want to give equal conditions to all - why do you do it?

You will have to write something that is understandable if you expect an answer.

[TheQuin]

I've just had confirmation that the restrictions on redeeming the higher levels of reward points is because a lot of the bot users were using their accumulated RP to increase their rewards 5x and making it profitable to bot again.

This restriction only applies to accounts that do not meet the minimum wagering/lotto ticket/balance requirement to reach the full base reward.

Again I'm sorry that the actions of a few selfish botnet abusers affects genuine users.

[meykson]

My IP address has been blocked from playing the FREE PLAY game in freedoge.co.in

ID 2167425

[Triple_S]

I've just had confirmation that the restrictions on redeeming the higher levels of reward points is because a lot of the bot users were using their accumulated RP to increase their rewards 5x and making it profitable to bot again.

This restriction only applies to accounts that do not meet the minimum wagering/lotto ticket/balance requirement to reach the full base reward.

Again I'm sorry that the actions of a few selfish botnet abusers affects genuine users.

Well surprise surprise: I'M NO BOT USER!!!
But as many other legit users affected by this!

All these measures won't stop bot users just because of one reason:
Bot users can calculate with the AVERAGE claim amount, because for example if a bot user has 1000 accounts that claim 24/7, he will roll a 10000 almost every day - It's pure statistics. Therefore the amount bot users will calculate with is the AVERAGE claim amount, not the MINIMUM. The AVERAGE claim amount is currently around 172 satoshi. Before you halfed the MINIMUM reward it was like 10 satoshi higher, so not significaltly different. All this does only apply to users with lots of accounts, cause they will hit the high rewards in reasonable time. Regular users will need multiple years because of the low chances.

This basically means: You measures against bots affect regular users much more than bot users with many accounts!!! This is riddiculous!!!

Anyway there is still a possibility to hurt bot users while not hurting regular users and this would be my preferred measure: If you half ALL rewards and half the TIME BETWEEN 2 CLAIMS, the average amount per time will stay the same, but you have to solve twice as much Captchas for it, so regular users will be able to claim the exact same amount, but the costs for bot users will double! This is annoying to regular users, but will not affect their income.

Anyway I understand that you want to hurt users that don't generate income, but please don't be that hypocritical saying it is all against bots. As I just proved it mainly affects users that don't generate income for the site and there would be measures that would actually affect bots, but you don't take them.

If you now want to say I should just deposit some money to be counted as a user: I would never even think about investing real money into a website with a information policy as horrible as yours!!! You take measures that even you, the community manager, does not know anything about. It would be no effort to inform about the measures with a banner or so on the website, but you decided to make everything as silent as possible - How come?

[TheQuin]

@Triple_S

I replied to you in the other thread. No need to cross post.

[karu88]

I've just had confirmation that the restrictions on redeeming the higher levels of reward points is because a lot of the bot users were using their accumulated RP to increase their rewards 5x and making it profitable to bot again.

This restriction only applies to accounts that do not meet the minimum wagering/lotto ticket/balance requirement to reach the full base reward.

Again I'm sorry that the actions of a few selfish botnet abusers affects genuine users.

it will affect to all user who don't gambling, not only bot. And almost user is not gamble.

[TheQuin]

it will affect to all user who don't gambling, not only bot. And almost user is not gamble.

That is an unfortunate side effect of being attacked by bots. We are happy that we have found a way to maintain full payouts to those customers that do gamble.

[TheQuin]

Oh really? Are you serious? impressive.

Like i said before, it was not that hard to guess about it.

What is the next move? High fee? More reduces on payout?

But it's ok, you are "just keeping bots away". Legit players are not a important here.

Every satoshi a bot takes is one less that we can give to a legitimate player. The next move is to see how the botnet operators respond and then counter their next move. This is what we have been doing for nearly 5 years now. Most of the actions haven't affected other players but sometimes that is unavoidable.

[karu88]

Oh really? Are you serious? impressive.

Like i said before, it was not that hard to guess about it.

What is the next move? High fee? More reduces on payout?

But it's ok, you are "just keeping bots away". Legit players are not a important here.

Every satoshi a bot takes is one less that we can give to a legitimate player. The next move is to see how the botnet operators respond and then counter their next move. This is what we have been doing for nearly 5 years now. Most of the actions haven't affected other players but sometimes that is unavoidable.

so what next if bot stop?

[TheQuin]

so what next if bot stop?

You seemed to have missed the important part of what I was saying. It is an ongoing battle where every move we make they do something different and we have to change what we do in response.

[TheQuin]

Due to the unpopularity of the change wetsuit has decided to remove the RP redemption restrictions and try and figure out another way of fighting the botnets.

@solosss
You can ask your mummy to dry your tears away and change your nappy now.

[karu88]

Due to the unpopularity of the change wetsuit has decided to remove the RP redemption restrictions and try and figure out another way of fighting the botnets.

@solosss
You can ask your mummy to dry your tears away and change your nappy now.

you mean now we can claim the reward like before, is it?

[grahamlyons]

to be honest i dont understand why anyone still gambles on freebitco.in multiplier with its super-high 5% house edge. there are lots of other "multiplier"/"dice" games that offer much lower house edge - e.g. 999dice.com and the new multiplier on CoinPot (0% house edge!!)
dont get me wrong, i love freebitco.in as a faucet and all the extras (reward points, 50% referrals etc) just you are always going to lose fast against a 5% house edge

You're not taking into account all the extras we give you when you gamble. The reward points and lottery tickets all have a value that is reflected in that 5% house edge. Then how many other dice sites pay 50% referral commision and pay interest on your balance?
Whether it is appealing to you individually or not it is to many people and if you look on the site stats page at the total wagered and compare to other sites it will confirm that.

oh absolutely. and like i said, i love the way freebitco.in works.

however, 999dice actually does give 50% referral and coinpot.co kind of does too via the faucets that pay into it (all 25% - 50% referral commission)
but you are right, their house edge is so low that they dont have any scope to give rewards or lottery tickets or pay interest
i suppose it just depends if you value those over essentially losing 5% on every roll (over the long run)

[karu88]

Due to the unpopularity of the change wetsuit has decided to remove the RP redemption restrictions and try and figure out another way of fighting the botnets.

@solosss
You can ask your mummy to dry your tears away and change your nappy now.

are the bot stop?

[Senzacervello]

All these measures won't stop bot users just because of one reason:
Bot users can calculate with the AVERAGE claim amount, because for example if a bot user has 1000 accounts that claim 24/7, he will roll a 10000 almost every day - It's pure statistics. Therefore the amount bot users will calculate with is the AVERAGE claim amount, not the MINIMUM. The AVERAGE claim amount is currently around 172 satoshi. Before you halfed the MINIMUM reward it was like 10 satoshi higher, so not significaltly different. All this does only apply to users with lots of accounts, cause they will hit the high rewards in reasonable time. Regular users will need multiple years because of the low chances.

I wouldn't be so sure. If each roll is an independent event (and very likely this is the case), the chance to get a 10.000 is always the same regardless of the number of rolls you make. And it is equal to the chance to get every other number.

In my opinion is also wrong your assumed average: you can easily roll 10.000 getting always the min amount. Then, if you want to support your theory and you want to come to the average you say by including in the sample rolls paid more than the min (but having the same chance to happen of all the others) you are simply choosing an arbitrary interval and produced a biased result.

All of this if each event (=roll) is set as an independent one. If you evidence that is not so, please let me know

[TheQuin]

Due to the unpopularity of the change wetsuit has decided to remove the RP redemption restrictions and try and figure out another way of fighting the botnets.
~

you mean now we can claim the reward like before, is it?

What does it say in the post you quoted from me?

are the bot stop?

What I told you a couple of hours ago. It is a never-ending battle.

so what next if bot stop?

You seemed to have missed the important part of what I was saying. It is an ongoing battle where every move we make they do something different and we have to change what we do in response.

[AuXmen]

Hi
Is there any news/progress about Crypteer.com?
Yes this is my fist post on bitcointalk, but im here since 2015, and im registered with freebitcoin even before that, so i am not newbie in the matter.
All i want to say is that i remember you was going to expand the site with Doge and Bitcoincash, so i am holding these altcoins, waiting for news. I read this topic everyday morning before work with coffe in my other hand, and i see a big red flare right now in those posts, not because of you, but because of people leaving this site...
I dont want assurance, as it doesnt mean shit in this anonymous cryptoworld that we love and hate, i just hope that you keep us informed about this project future.
Thank you for your reply

[TheQuin]

Hi AuXmen

A couple of post about the rebrand.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=319540.msg29357972#msg29357972
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=319540.msg29578182#msg29578182

wetsuit is busy with other things at the moment and expects to get started on the rebrand around June. It means recoding the whole site from the ground up so there's no estimate how long that will take.

Merging in Doge and adding Bcash and other alts are very much part of the plan.

I wouldn't worry about all the people posting here that they're going to leave the site because we don't give them as much free money as they want. That's mainly just temper tantrums and our stats tell us we're doing great.

[Triple_S]

All these measures won't stop bot users just because of one reason:
Bot users can calculate with the AVERAGE claim amount, because for example if a bot user has 1000 accounts that claim 24/7, he will roll a 10000 almost every day - It's pure statistics. Therefore the amount bot users will calculate with is the AVERAGE claim amount, not the MINIMUM. The AVERAGE claim amount is currently around 172 satoshi. Before you halfed the MINIMUM reward it was like 10 satoshi higher, so not significaltly different. All this does only apply to users with lots of accounts, cause they will hit the high rewards in reasonable time. Regular users will need multiple years because of the low chances.

I wouldn't be so sure. If each roll is an independent event (and very likely this is the case), the chance to get a 10.000 is always the same regardless of the number of rolls you make. And it is equal to the chance to get every other number.

In my opinion is also wrong your assumed average: you can easily roll 10.000 getting always the min amount. Then, if you want to support your theory and you want to come to the average you say by including in the sample rolls paid more than the min (but having the same chance to happen of all the others) you are simply choosing an arbitrary interval and produced a biased result.

All of this if each event (=roll) is set as an independent one. If you evidence that is not so, please let me know

What you are saying is absolutly true. Every roll is an independent event, so the chance to roll a 10000 is always the same. The statistical average can be calculated easy:
You multiply every reward with it's probability and sum them up. You have to note for this that the 0 and the 10000 have only half the probability as all other numbers. (That was discussed multiple times before and is true!) By doing this you basically assume that in 20000 rolls you will roll one time the 0 and the 10000 and two times all other numbers. Of course you can roll 20000 without rolling the 10000 once, but you can also roll the 10000 one, two three ... times in the 20000 rolls. By calculating the average you calculate these fluctuations out. If you roll infinite times you will hit exactly the average and if you roll like 2000000 times, you will get close to it.

If you are a legit player, you roll maybe 15 times a day. With this speed you need almost 370 years to get to 2000000 rolls, but if you are a bot user with 1000 bots that claim 24/7, you get 2000000 rolls in less than 90 days! Therefore legit players can't really calculate with the AVERAGE claim amount because they would need just way too long to get to an amount of claims where the fluctuations are negliable. A bot user can claculate with the AVERAGE claim amount because he will reach a very large amount of claims in a few months.

Because of this a legit user is motly affected by the minimum claim amount and the lower reward stages. A bot user can calculate with a income close to statistical AVERAGE because of negliable statistical fluctuations and is therfore mostly affected by the higher reward stages and not the minimum reward.

Since only the minimum reward was changed, bot users are only a bit affected by it. It's all pure statistics.