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Author Topic: FreeBitco.in - Win a Lamborghini Huracan LP 580-2!!  (Read 307365 times)
imnotabot11235813
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May 29, 2018, 12:43:42 PM
 #6161

Licensed by whom? A government authority that inspects an RNG once a year? No thanks, I'll stick to provably fair sites where I can verify for myself if they are cheating.

Regarding that, I must point out that if you are not careful enough, you can still be cheated:

First of all, I didn't directly accuse that FreeBitco is manipulating the Rolls because I wouldn't be taken seriously if I did so.
It's better to provide all the information necessary so you can check it by yourselves and even maybe convince FreeBitco to improve their system.


I will explain this in two stages:
First the current (and exploitable) implementation:

1) You Login into FreeBitco and click on the "THIS GAME IS PROVABLY FAIR!"
2) In this screen, the Server *promises* that it will calculate the next roll using your Client Seed + next Nonce + Server Seed. (Server sends you the Hash of that seed so you can check it later, that's perfectly implemented).
3) You save the server seed hash and you hit Roll.
4) The server does all the math. Using the Client Seed, the Nonce, and the secret Server Seed.
5) Then here is where the server MAY say: Oh wait.. I do not like this roll. Let's use the Client Seed, the Nonce, but let's break the promise of which Seed we were going to use.
6) You verify your bet using the bet History (which was saved by the Server). The math here rounds up perfectly and the game seems provably-fair.

There are two problems for you with this implementation regarding how can you verify that you were cheated:
1) You will need to do this for probably thousands of rolls until the server attempts to cheat on you.
2) Once you eventually find a discrepancy, you will be left proof-less and alone. The server promised you it was going to use Hash111 but ended up using Hash222, in the History it stored Hash222 for you to verify/share the bet result.


Now, here is the basic idea on how it should be implemented:

1) Server generates a new secret Seed. Sets the Nonce to 0. And returns you the SHA256 of that Seed.
2) When you roll, you provide your own Client seed to the server.
3) The server calculates the roll using it's secret seed + nonce + client seed.
4) Server increases the Nonce by one. And keeps the same server seed for the next roll.
5) If I want to verify my bets (and only if I ask for it). The server reveals it's secret seed to me and re-executes step 1 for future rolls.
6) The server should add an entry to the history saying that I manually requested the server to reveal the seed.

This way, the server should be able to calculate all rolls without changing the promised seed unless you ask for the seed. Also, you don't need to save each server seed hash and compare it with the one used in the rolls history.
(It can still cheat you into saying you asked for the Seed for verifying before you actually rolled and thus generating a losing seed)
But at least this way it will be way more visible for you to see if your are being cheated, because you will see that the server changed the seed without you asking to reveal the seed.

It's not perfect. But this way it will be extremely hard for them to conceal the cheating.
To compensate the problem of this proposed approach, an option is that the server provides and resets the server Seed and Nonce every week. This way the server cannot cheat the History by saying that you requested the seed for verifying when you didn't.
You will only be able to verify your bets every week, but it can be optional with a setup with a cooldown.


Sorry for the delayed response. I'll do my best to answer all the details.


Then, regarding solosss madness. I do not agree with how he is expressing himself, but I do consider the possibility of the site taking extreme measures to stop bots. Most of the time this measures comes with high collateral damage (as we are seeing for the last 10-20 posts).

IMHO, I prefer to be part of collateral damage from a hammer-ban (and ask for support to restore such account) than the site manipulating rolls or cheating for the sake of stopping bots by cutting profits to everyone (bots and humans).

Every faucet would be at least 10 times bigger than it is today if there weren't  bots out there.

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May 29, 2018, 01:05:29 PM
 #6162

Then, regarding solosss madness. I do not agree with how he is expressing himself, but I do consider the possibility of the site taking extreme measures to stop bots. Most of the time this measures comes with high collateral damage (as we are seeing for the last 10-20 posts).

IMHO, I prefer to be part of collateral damage from a hammer-ban (and ask for support to restore such account) than the site manipulating rolls or cheating for the sake of stopping bots by cutting profits to everyone (bots and humans).


In regards to your suggestion on how to better implement provably fair wetsuit has promised to include that in the new site. It requires a lot of back-end work to implement and that would be duplicated work to do it before.

wetsuit is constantly working on better ways to combat bots and always does his best to try and limit the collateral damage to genuine users as much as possible. In regards to today's change to RP redemptions that have now been limited to a subset of users that we believe to be mainly bots, I've had one person who has reported it. He was understanding and said he needed to start gambling more. As a result of that, I had an idea of a way we could better implement this and I actually managed to get hold of wetsuit this morning. He's looking into what he needs to do to implement it so I won't say what it is yet.

The problem with just using the ban hammer approach alone is that we always allow everyone to withdraw regardless of what they were banned for. I need to speak to wetsuit to understand his reasoning for doing that. But it means the bots don't lose anything and just make new accounts to start again.

Every faucet would be at least 10 times bigger than it is today if there weren't  bots out there.

That's very true. Every satoshi lost to abuse is a satoshi we can't give to a genuine user. I wish we could find a better way of dealing with it than reducing the rewards every time.

freebitcoin.TO WIN A  LAMBORGHINI!..

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May 29, 2018, 02:12:39 PM
 #6163

Is it only me who noticed that in the last 3 Lottery games, the majority of winner's IDs are mostly newer profiles? I figured it out based on the profile IDs with 8 digits and starting 11******, 12****** and 13******
Especially in the 154th round. Is it because old players don't play anymore? Or there's another explanation. For example my profile ID is 7 digits and starts with 309****. I've created my account last year. I've almost never seen an old lplayer like me among the lottery winners. is there any explanation upon this? I'm simply wondering. Nothing personal.

To find out you have to be in.
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May 29, 2018, 02:28:36 PM
 #6164

Is it because old players don't play anymore?

Some of us oldies still play but statistically speaking newer accounts have a much higher probability of being active. That's why they win more often. If you go back through the history you will see some older accounts have won prizes. I'm looking forward to the day I win and everyone claims it's fixed as result.  Cheesy

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May 29, 2018, 03:15:51 PM
 #6165

Is it only me who noticed that in the last 3 Lottery games, the majority of winner's IDs are mostly newer profiles? I figured it out based on the profile IDs with 8 digits and starting 11******, 12****** and 13******
Especially in the 154th round. Is it because old players don't play anymore? Or there's another explanation. For example my profile ID is 7 digits and starts with 309****. I've created my account last year. I've almost never seen an old lplayer like me among the lottery winners. is there any explanation upon this? I'm simply wondering. Nothing personal.

Just a coincidence IMO, the winners could be any members no matter they are new or old members. You may say the opposite thing if you see that the winners are mostly old members.
The chance is obviously based on how many tickets you own for every round but the luck decide who will be the winners. So just keep on playing no matter you are claiming free tickets or buying it with deposit.

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May 29, 2018, 03:25:45 PM
 #6166


Some of us oldies still play but statistically speaking newer accounts have a much higher probability of being active. That's why they win more often. If you go back through the history you will see some older accounts have won prizes. I'm looking forward to the day I win and everyone claims it's fixed as result.  Cheesy

So many times I had thousands of satoshi and forgot to buy tickets and when I was looking at the results LOL most of them had fewer tickets than I could have  Cheesy


Just a coincidence IMO, the winners could be any members no matter they are new or old members. You may say the opposite thing if you see that the winners are mostly old members.
The chance is obviously based on how many tickets you own for every round but the luck decide who will be the winners. So just keep on playing no matter you are claiming free tickets or buying it with deposit.


Yeah, giving up after an year would be cowerdness  Cool Grin

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May 29, 2018, 09:18:57 PM
 #6167

The problem with just using the ban hammer approach alone is that we always allow everyone to withdraw regardless of what they were banned for. I need to speak to wetsuit to understand his reasoning for doing that. But it means the bots don't lose anything and just make new accounts to start again.

This I also don't understand. It should be logique that whenever you find a person using a botnet or cheating and you ban them that he loses all his earnings. By still paying out these banned members they will keep on creating new accounts etc...

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May 29, 2018, 09:19:13 PM
 #6168

playing for a while still didnt win anything lol but I'm trying  Grin

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May 30, 2018, 12:10:10 AM
 #6169

What do you mean it is too much? Is there any exact times of claiming that can related into banning out account? I believe that if they have time to do it manually that means they will claim it of course. Last time if I still got time, I can make up to 12-16 hours per day which is pretty high too but there is nothing happened with my account. So may be you can give us some regulations on claiming amount per day

Giving regulations would be the same as giving instructions to the botters as how to avoid detection. It's not as simple as the number of times in a day, a few people are being blocked because they match the same pattern a very large botnet was using.

But how can you remove those detection if there is a solving captcha which will counter the bot? I believe this is pretty good enough whenever you want to use bot because it prevents them for stealing the faucet mode but how can it still be abused if you already put protection? So you mean that to avoid this, you just blocked them like that? And later you will processed their account by asking them to make a deposit to make sure they are for real?

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May 30, 2018, 04:05:58 AM
 #6170

The problem with just using the ban hammer approach alone is that we always allow everyone to withdraw regardless of what they were banned for. I need to speak to wetsuit to understand his reasoning for doing that. But it means the bots don't lose anything and just make new accounts to start again.

This I also don't understand. It should be logique that whenever you find a person using a botnet or cheating and you ban them that he loses all his earnings. By still paying out these banned members they will keep on creating new accounts etc...

I've haven't had a chance to talk to wetsuit about this yet but I've been thinking about it. The last time some people got blocked some idiot was posting in the other thread telling everyone to withdraw all the money as they would lose it if they got banned. I had a very easy answer, we only ever block users from using the faucet, nothing else. So I suppose it does really help with building trust and confidence.
I *think* with the botnets it is a case of trying to catch and block them before they get to minimum withdrawal. That's part of the reason we're unlikely to reduce the 30k sat limit.



But how can you remove those detection if there is a solving captcha which will counter the bot? I believe this is pretty good enough whenever you want to use bot because it prevents them for stealing the faucet mode but how can it still be abused if you already put protection? So you mean that to avoid this, you just blocked them like that? And later you will processed their account by asking them to make a deposit to make sure they are for real?

No.

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May 30, 2018, 05:56:42 AM
 #6171

Why do we not see promotions and events with Freebitco.in on special days, like we see with other sites? We should celebrate certain events with higher freerolls for the day or increase rewards on days like this :

~ Freebitco.in's Birthday <date?>
~ Pizza Day
~ Valentines Day
~ Xmas
~ New Year
~ Halloween
~ Saint Patrick's Day
~ Hanukkah
~ Winter solstice
~ Black Friday
~ Diwali

There are so many special days in the year that we can celebrate and where Freebitco.in can be part of the festivities and fun.  Wink
Let's ask Wetsuit if it is possible to add some special rewards during some of these festivities?

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May 30, 2018, 06:14:59 AM
 #6172

Let's ask Wetsuit if it is possible to add some special rewards during some of these festivities?

That's a coincidence, the reason I had a chat with him yesterday was that he came up with an idea for a new promotion and he wanted to ask my opinion on it. It's not a one-off event, it is going to be a monthly promotion. Anyway, after that, I got to thinking we should do something special for our 5th birthday when it comes later this year, (around October 29th IIRC) so I'm going to mention that to him as well.

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May 30, 2018, 06:47:51 AM
 #6173

Let's ask Wetsuit if it is possible to add some special rewards during some of these festivities?

That's a coincidence, the reason I had a chat with him yesterday was that he came up with an idea for a new promotion and he wanted to ask my opinion on it. It's not a one-off event, it is going to be a monthly promotion. Anyway, after that, I got to thinking we should do something special for our 5th birthday when it comes later this year, (around October 29th IIRC) so I'm going to mention that to him as well.


Well, then this was destined to happen then.  Wink

He can even create a special banner or announcement on the home page, that would display the message of the day and the special rewards that would be given for that event. It just creates a nice atmosphere for the global Freebitco.in community and some excitement to kill the boredom of seeing the same thing over and over again, day after day!  Wink

Thanks for the quick response.  Wink 

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May 30, 2018, 07:13:26 AM
 #6174

Hi,

I'd like to ask what the requirements are to be able to redeem the 100 reward points bonus? Thanks.
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May 30, 2018, 07:33:23 AM
 #6175

I'd like to ask what the requirements are to be able to redeem the 100 reward points bonus? Thanks.

It's individually calculated depending on how much you have received from free-rolls and how much you have wagered.

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May 30, 2018, 07:43:39 AM
 #6176

I'd like to ask what the requirements are to be able to redeem the 100 reward points bonus? Thanks.

It's individually calculated depending on how much you have received from free-rolls and how much you have wagered.

The Queen write to me in PM, got something to say need for a botnet.
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May 30, 2018, 07:48:55 AM
 #6177

The Queen write to me in PM, got something to say need for a botnet.

It's TheQuin as in Harlequin. I'm not sure why people keep asking for me to write to them when they have something to say to me. My PMs are open to Newbies.

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solosss
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May 30, 2018, 08:44:59 AM
 #6178

The Queen write to me in PM, got something to say need for a botnet.

It's TheQuin as in Harlequin. I'm not sure why people keep asking for me to write to them when they have something to say to me. My PMs are open to Newbies.

funny you have jokes, first blocked some accounts, and now send them to their email
"We miss you.

What can we do to get you back? We've changed. We've grown so much. We've been working out, eating better, party at HiPER joins, and saving money to save on you!"

Mockery?
Dav7
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May 30, 2018, 08:50:52 AM
 #6179

Let's ask Wetsuit if it is possible to add some special rewards during some of these festivities?

That's a coincidence, the reason I had a chat with him yesterday was that he came up with an idea for a new promotion and he wanted to ask my opinion on it. It's not a one-off event, it is going to be a monthly promotion. Anyway, after that, I got to thinking we should do something special for our 5th birthday when it comes later this year, (around October 29th IIRC) so I'm going to mention that to him as well.

Hope that idea go ahead I also feel important to keep the "attractiveness" of this site boosted with some initiatives. The weekend bonus is so "normal" that most people just use it as a routine.  

MangoPolo
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May 30, 2018, 09:45:33 AM
 #6180

Okay, having new stuff added to freebitco.in  is yummy. Cause it started to look conservative, same things everyday, only the reward points tripled once a week or so. Let's see what tasties are we going to be srvred soon  Tongue

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