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[jackg]

~

I'm so confused as to what point you're trying to make here

It's simple... He's trying to advertise a bot that runs on a site he hates to make wetsuit and him a profit. The issue is that he's making less of a profit than wetsuit so he's really just advertising gambling on a site he hates for some tiny affiliate earnings... he's turning to use smoke and mirrors just as he accused thequin of doing so now so many pages ago...

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[broke_tradah]

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Smoke and mirrors?  Really?  Check your history,  why dont you go back and see what caused wetsuit to raise the house edge from respectable (0) to #retarded (5%).  It sure as shit wasnt humans.  It was DICE bots wrecking the fuck out of his shit.  Bots are very real and very useful regardless of house edge.  He increased the house edge to combat DICE bots (which is what I offer).  Why would you do that if they supposedly make everyone LOSE and allow the house to win every time?  Erm.  You wouldnt.  That issue hasnt disappeared and it never will.  It merely cuts down on the people WILLING to use them due to the increased risk.  Those that are still here are just idiots and therefore if they are stupid enough to continue,  I might as well help them win something and I'm going to profit off it at the same time.  Simple as that.  I dont get where people think I try to hide that fact.  It's pretty well known that it's tied to my referral ID.  It says that right in the docs.  As do all other bots that have ever had any use for this shithole site,  every bot that has worked on freebitco has had a referral ID attached to it,  a dev would have to be completely retarded not to include it and as such,  their bot is probably just garbage since they dont stand to gain anything at all from it.  Those that use referrals actually have an incentive to keep players winning as long as possible (which in turn has a side effect of giving them a chance to bow out before they get rekt).  It's just common sense.

[TheQuin]

~

I'm so confused as to what point you're trying to make here

He doesn't have a point that I haven't demonstrated is flawed logic many times already. As he keeps on repeating the same things and demonstrating he no understanding of gambling and is incapable of conducting a conversation (hint you have to address the rebuttal and not just repeat your false statements) I've put him on my ignore list. Just do the same and leave the village idiot sat in the corner talking to himself.

[slaman29]

~

I'm so confused as to what point you're trying to make here

It's simple... He's trying to advertise a bot that runs on a site he hates to make wetsuit and him a profit. The issue is that he's making less of a profit than wetsuit so he's really just advertising gambling on a site he hates for some tiny affiliate earnings... he's turning to use smoke and mirrors just as he accused thequin of doing so now so many pages ago...

AH, so THAT is what he's been going on all about! I don't know why I never noticed it, guess I arrived midway in the conversation to really understand just what he was so upset about.

This is some deep complexity of reverse psychology. Talk smack about a site he hates but hopes people use his bot to earn from there anyway.

And broke: are you upset that your bots are also being weeded out of play? Why not just let things be the way they are because clearly you have no influence? Let the owner do what the owner wants to do, right?

[jackg]

AH, so THAT is what he's been going on all about! I don't know why I never noticed it, guess I arrived midway in the conversation to really understand just what he was so upset about.

This is some deep complexity of reverse psychology. Talk smack about a site he hates but hopes people use his bot to earn from there anyway.

And broke: are you upset that your bots are also being weeded out of play? Why not just let things be the way they are because clearly you have no influence? Let the owner do what the owner wants to do, right?

You've got to feel sorry for him if he can't find any other way to earn than by getting 0.4% referral lincome from a gambling bot he previously decided to stop running because he was worried about what the FBI would have to ssay about his earnings (or whatever the hell he was going on about)...

He doesn't have a point

That's just it!

[broke_tradah]

And broke: are you upset that your bots are also being weeded out of play? Why not just let things be the way they are because clearly you have no influence? Let the owner do what the owner wants to do, right?

No he hasnt weeded out anything of mine although the attempt was made back when the house edge was 0% and increased to #retarded levels.  My bot has not always been public.  I used it for a very long time privately when the house edge was 0 some years ago.  Then about a year or so ago (while I was still using it myself) I started streaming a trading channel and people always asked me what the black screen in the background was that I would keep up all the time.  After a while I got sick of the users/watchers/whateveruwantotcallthem pestering me to release the bot so that they could use it.  It was quite obvious that I was very successful with it and thus the requests.  I refused to do so because I had no way to limit it's use should it get out of hand.  Then suggestions to tie it to a referral ID came in and it seemed logical to me so thats exactly what I did. So the bot now checks to see if a user is one of my referrals.  It does so by connecting to my server.  Since it does this, I can limit who can/cant use it and I could turn it off completely for everyone if I chose to do so at any time.  Since then I no longer have any need to use the bot myself since it now pays for itself as well as the trading I do.  When I lose a trade,  the referrals make up for it (where as previously my bot winnings would serve that purpose) so that I could continue trading without having to put up any of my own capitol.

I dislike this place mostly because of TheQuack and how he treats people (not only myself but others as well,  dude is just an asshole,  as should be expected for anyone sticking up for a casino since they likely have 0 morals).  I also dislike the house edge,  but if I had to pick one or the other as being the worse of the two,  I would say TheQuack takes the cake since he's a complete idiot and provides nothing of value to ANYONE.  Ask him a question and you're more likely than not to get some sort of snide remark that has absolutely nothing to do with anything you asked.  He does this with everyone because he thinks he's god's gift to the interwebs.  At least the site itself still produces income although I would prefer that it still had 0 house edge.

If TheQuack was suddenly silenced on the forums,  this place would improve 300 fold and the only issue would be the house edge.  TheQuack would have you believe that I think anyone who disagrees with me is an asshole.  However I routinely joke with jackg when I reply around here (which is maybe once a week or every other week,  depends what I have goin on at the time,  I use this place to pass idle time).  He's not an asshole like TheQuack,  but he also doesnt agree with me on most things either.  I dont consider him an asshole like I do TheQuack because he isnt.  He treats people with humor or respect unlike TheQuack.  So I treat TheQuack the same way he treats everyone else.  Like complete shit.

[STT]

Use of bots in any game generally reduces its viability.    I have this problem any time I go onto a computer game just for fun, some want to unbalance gameplay in their own favour and it ends up reducing gameplay.   The eventual result of bot use is there is no game left.

This site wont exist if all there is left is bot use, nobody is going to win in that scenario

[TheQuin]

Use of bots in any game generally reduces its viability.    I have this problem any time I go onto a computer game just for fun, some want to unbalance gameplay in their own favour and it ends up reducing gameplay.   The eventual result of bot use is there is no game left.

This site wont exist if all there is left is bot use, nobody is going to win in that scenario

Bots come in two varieties. The bots that cause a problem are the ones that claim free rolls and are used to massively abuse the faucet with multi-accounting. The other ones that automate playing dice are no problem at all as they do not give the player any advantage over someone playing manually or using our auto-bet function.
If anyone wants to use a bot for that I would recommend https://bot.seuntjie.com/
It is open source so you'll know for sure that it doesn't contain malware, it has many built-in strategies and a programming interface to create your own.
The developer is also honest and trustworthy, he understands gambling and doesn't pretend his bot can do things that are not possible.

https://steemit.com/gambling/@seuntjie/why-botting-doesn-t-work-at-casinos

[slaman29]

And broke: are you upset that your bots are also being weeded out of play? Why not just let things be the way they are because clearly you have no influence? Let the owner do what the owner wants to do, right?

No he hasnt weeded out anything of mine although the attempt was made back when the house edge was 0% and increased to #retarded levels.  My bot has not always been public.  I used it for a very long time privately when the house edge was 0 some years ago.  Then about a year or so ago (while I was still using it myself) I started streaming a trading channel and people always asked me what the black screen in the background was that I would keep up all the time.  After a while I got sick of the users/watchers/whateveruwantotcallthem pestering me to release the bot so that they could use it.  It was quite obvious that I was very successful with it and thus the requests.  I refused to do so because I had no way to limit it's use should it get out of hand.  Then suggestions to tie it to a referral ID came in and it seemed logical to me so thats exactly what I did. So the bot now checks to see if a user is one of my referrals.  It does so by connecting to my server.  Since it does this, I can limit who can/cant use it and I could turn it off completely for everyone if I chose to do so at any time.  Since then I no longer have any need to use the bot myself since it now pays for itself as well as the trading I do.  When I lose a trade,  the referrals make up for it (where as previously my bot winnings would serve that purpose) so that I could continue trading without having to put up any of my own capitol.

I dislike this place mostly because of TheQuack and how he treats people (not only myself but others as well,  dude is just an asshole,  as should be expected for anyone sticking up for a casino since they likely have 0 morals).  I also dislike the house edge,  but if I had to pick one or the other as being the worse of the two,  I would say TheQuack takes the cake since he's a complete idiot and provides nothing of value to ANYONE.  Ask him a question and you're more likely than not to get some sort of snide remark that has absolutely nothing to do with anything you asked.  He does this with everyone because he thinks he's god's gift to the interwebs.  At least the site itself still produces income although I would prefer that it still had 0 house edge.

If TheQuack was suddenly silenced on the forums,  this place would improve 300 fold and the only issue would be the house edge.  TheQuack would have you believe that I think anyone who disagrees with me is an asshole.  However I routinely joke with jackg when I reply around here (which is maybe once a week or every other week,  depends what I have goin on at the time,  I use this place to pass idle time).  He's not an asshole like TheQuack,  but he also doesnt agree with me on most things either.  I dont consider him an asshole like I do TheQuack because he isnt.  He treats people with humor or respect unlike TheQuack.  So I treat TheQuack the same way he treats everyone else.  Like complete shit.

Ok, so if I understand correctly, your bots haven't been weeded out and you no longer use them as they now pay for itself via referrals. This sounds like a good thing. I don't know about you, but business sense doesn't need me to like the people who run the service that makes me profit.

I used to make a bit of money from ads, and I hated all of the ones I used, because I found them rude, slow, and always docked my earnings for "abuse" which they never proved or told me about, so I had trouble even trying to improve because I had no idea what traffic was causing those alerts. Eventually, they stopped earning me much and I moved on.

I don't think we need to bring morals into the picture... I do agree that this forum has a lot of tough characters and myself feel I have been unfairly treated in the past on some casinos, which I just react by not giving them my business. I appreciate the forum is what it is today because of those tough characters, better or worse. But TheQuin hasn't been rude... curt I would say, and calling people names doesn't help your case exactly no?

Anyway, okay, so we all have disagreements about all these gambling sites. For me it's simple. I move on if I can't stand it. Good luck!

[TheQuin]

Ok, so if I understand correctly, your bots haven't been weeded out

DiceBots and scripts don't break any rules. In fact, we make more money from people that use them than the ones that don't. The people that use them tend to keep on wagering the same funds over and over until they eventually lose. The simple fact is that when you gamble on random numbers, whatever system you use, there will be a sequence of rolls that will result in you busting. The larger the sample size of bets is the higher the probability that it will include that sequence.

When it comes to morals people are entitled to think whatever they want to about gambling. Our business model uses a 5% house edge to fund a faucet, rewards program and lottery. When people ask about reducing the house edge I ask them which of those things we should remove to pay for it. Most people it turns out would rather we didn't. If they don't want those things then they can go to other sites but we're not going to change a successful business.

[Samarkand]

...
Our business model uses a 5% house edge to fund a faucet, rewards program and lottery. When people ask about reducing the house edge I ask them which of those things we should remove to pay for it.
...

How about all of them? I´d rather play on a site with a 1 % fixed house edge without
any of the mentioned features than at a site with a 5 % house edge that pays for these features.

Just imagine a newcomer to FreeBitco.in, who plays a few rounds without
even being aware of the rewards program or the lottery. He is essentially paying for
a service that he doesn´t even know about.

The bustabit FAQ puts it quite beautifully if you ask me:

Be extremely skeptical of generous reward programs, bonuses (e.g. deposit bonuses), affiliate programs and the likes.
The money comes from somewhere: you. Casinos often use these sorts of kick-back programs to distract you from their high house edge.

[TheQuin]

I´d rather play on a site with a 1 % fixed house edge without
any of the mentioned features than at a site with a 5 % house edge that pays for these features.

That was the point I just made. You are welcome to do that and there are plenty of sites competing for your business. We offer a different service and that has been very popular and successful for nearly 5 years now.

[Samarkand]

That was the point I just made. You are welcome to do that and there are plenty of sites competing for your business. We offer a different service and that has been very popular and successful for nearly 5 years now.

Yes, I know. But I was under the impression that the house edge was initially much lower and
was raised to 5 % at a later date.

...
Really?  Check your history,  why dont you go back and see what caused wetsuit to raise the house edge from respectable (0) to #retarded (5%).  
...

I don´t doubt that the site is very successful, but I can definitely
understand people, who complain about the house edge @TheQuin  

[TheQuin]

Yes, I know. But I was under the impression that the house edge was initially much lower and
was raised to 5 % at a later date.

The site was originally funded by advertising and had a 0% house edge dice game just for fun. After about two weeks the bots turned up and started abusing the faucet so the 5% house edge was added. It was originally intended to be reduced but wetsuit stumbled on a sucessful business. It turns out there are many people that are far more interested in the extras we give and really don't care about the house edge. Over time advertising revenue dried up as rates reduced for incentivised sites and the site evolved into what it is now. We could completely change our business model and go and compete with dozens of other sites in the crowded low edge sector or we could ignore the few complainers and continue the way that works for us.

[jackg]

Yes, I know. But I was under the impression that the house edge was initially much lower and
was raised to 5 % at a later date.

The site was originally funded by advertising and had a 0% house edge dice game just for fun. After about two weeks the bots turned up and started abusing the faucet so the 5% house edge was added. It was originally intended to be reduced but wetsuit stumbled on a sucessful business. It turns out there are many people that are far more interested in the extras we give and really don't care about the house edge. Over time advertising revenue dried up as rates reduced for incentivised sites and the site evolved into what it is now. We could completely change our business model and go and compete with dozens of other sites in the crowded low edge sector or we could ignore the few complainers and continue the way that works for us.

Essentially just ignoring those customers requests...

0%-5% is a very big move...

[TheQuin]

Essentially just ignoring those customers requests...

Ignoring the minority in order to keep serving the overwhelming majority.

0%-5% is a very big move...

Yes, as I just said it was originally intended to be tempory and reduced. But it turned out that it didn't reduce gambling volume and spending the money by adding reward points, a lottery etc. was a more successful way to expand the business by attracting more customers than lowering the house edge would have been.

[jackg]

Essentially just ignoring those customers requests...

Ignoring the minority in order to keep serving the overwhelming majority.

0%-5% is a very big move...

Yes, as I just said it was originally intended to be tempory and reduced. But it turned out that it didn't reduce gambling volume and spending the money by adding reward points, a lottery etc. was a more successful way to expand the business by attracting more customers than lowering the house edge would have been.

Who's to say they're the minority, there seems to have been a lot of them here...
Wetsuit is clearly making a healthy profit from this so it's not like he can't afford changing it to a 3% house edge and still make a profit or see how it goes...

[TheQuin]

Who's to say they're the minority, there seems to have been a lot of them here...

Exactly. The forum != our potential customer base.

Wetsuit is clearly making a healthy profit from this so it's not like he can't afford changing it to a 3% house edge and still make a profit or see how it goes...

We offer a different service and that has been very popular and successful for nearly 5 years now.

I can't see why he would change something that is working so well. I haven't asked him about this but it just seems illogical to do that to me. I'm going to meet him the week after next so it's going to be fun to chat and find out.

[jackg]

Who's to say they're the minority, there seems to have been a lot of them here...

Exactly. The forum != our potential customer base.

Why have you been hired then and why does this thread exist?

I can't see why he would change something that is working so well. I haven't asked him about this but it just seems illogical to do that to me. I'm going to meet him the week after next so it's going to be fun to chat and find out.

It'd look better with a 3% house edge with all the extras in comparison to a 5% house edge.
For you it'll be fun (although they do say not to meet your heroes)...

[TheQuin]

Exactly. The forum != our potential customer base.

Why have you been hired then and why does this thread exist?
[/quote]

I'm not saying that the forum isn't still important to us. I was originally hired to give support here to our existing customers and those that come here from the links we give to the forum from our site. What I mean is that just about everyone that is involved in Bitcoin already has (or had) an account with us. New customers come from a wider audience.

It'd look better with a 3% house edge with all the extras in comparison to a 5% house edge.
For you it'll be fun (although they do say not to meet your heroes)...

What I do know from the 6 months that I've been working for him is that if profitability increases he'll ask me how to increase the rewards without encouraging the bots, not how to reduce the income that funds those rewards. That to me is the whole business model and what brings new customers in from that wider audience that doesn't obsess about house edge in the way people here do.

I have to meet him as I'm moving out there to take over running all day to day operations.