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Author Topic: Trust No One  (Read 160007 times)
rmorgan
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April 05, 2013, 11:13:12 PM
 #1861

I will store my bitcoins offline on my external harddrive and encrypted with true crypt.

This is what I do.  TNO all the way! 
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bitManXD
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April 06, 2013, 01:03:12 AM
 #1862

Very Informational, pal!
BaghdadSteve
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April 06, 2013, 05:04:51 AM
 #1863

It's not paranoia if they really are after you.
vam345
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April 06, 2013, 07:06:18 AM
 #1864

good read.
The Rouge 1
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April 06, 2013, 07:22:12 AM
 #1865

so offline storage can be used by copying blockchaining codes of the bitcoins, just a newbie? Gonna have to claim single bitcoins I had with instawallet... Embarrassed with their service being hacked  Sad
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April 06, 2013, 07:44:12 AM
 #1866

Dacoinmaster,
Thanks for that info.
good tips for a noob

BTC:   13oxYTF1CDzz63FV6FDMT7xuzpH8TRnYgb
ZanderD
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April 06, 2013, 09:54:03 AM
 #1867

Good tips. Gotta be safe, especially since the network is somewhat anonymous.
creemej
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April 06, 2013, 12:37:28 PM
 #1868

I promise!
Taoist
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April 06, 2013, 01:34:14 PM
 #1869


i think it is valid to apply security, but some suggestions do seem a bit overkill
boneee
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April 06, 2013, 04:40:03 PM
 #1870

thanks for the info
mjsherman
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April 06, 2013, 05:25:53 PM
 #1871

Great info
harveyweizhao
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April 06, 2013, 07:29:12 PM
 #1872

wow cool!

最新资讯 请follow微博:Harvey老狼 http://weibo.com/u/1290487752
yawhide
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April 06, 2013, 07:43:55 PM
 #1873

completely agree, trust noone with anything you are scared to lose
BladeRunner
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April 06, 2013, 08:58:39 PM
 #1874

completely agree, trust noone with anything you are scared to lose

This made me think of the old saying, "A lock only keeps an honest man honest"
paulk
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April 06, 2013, 09:11:44 PM
 #1875

If you cannot trust anyone, will this not affect bitcoins in a negative way? Or any monetary system? I thought that this sort of systems are always rooted on trust even bitcoins.

For example if I buy something from an online merchant, I will have to trust he will send a good quality product. I even need to trust him, he will send anything at all. I also have some trust in the central bank, if I don't have that, the value of the currency starts to decline very rapidly.

Silkroad is a particularly strong example of trust. You buy some shady goods, you give the other party your home address and then hope you will get it and it will be in good quality. And also that the other party didn't have alerted your authorities. The upside of this is that your packet will be send by courier. The downside is, that you cannot consume the shady goods and cannot file a complaint, so the merchant looses his merchant status at silkroad.

You need to trust, that bitcoin exists tomorrow. That the developers don't make a huge unreparable mistake, that the authorities not go down on it next week. You need to trust, that there are not huge financial corporations pumping the value of bitcoins. There is a lot to trust.


The reason bitcoin is going skyhigh is that people trust third parties like mtgox, silkroad, the dark souled business men on there, the gambling sites and all those options and the lending constructions. 

I think you would wanted to say, be cautious.

But it is good advise, you give, but just don't distrust trust.

It will hurt the currency in the long run. I have converted some of my euros into bitcoins, because I have trust in the system.
tomwoods
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April 06, 2013, 09:20:03 PM
 #1876

I was thinking that "Trust No One" also applies to groups of people. Currently with the price of bitcoins skyrocketing like it is, I wonder if financial entities might have found in bitcoin a new way to sucker us out of our hard earned money, artificially driving up the price of the bitcoin and riding the roller coaster up they way they same way they have done during the coure of modern history?

What mechanisms are there in place to counter manipulation of the bitcoin system? What measures can be taken to reduce the volatility of the bitcoin?

What good is it for me to have my bitcoins in a physical wallet, secure from everyone, when the actual value of the bitcoin can be manipulated?

How can I protect myself against this?
paulk
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April 06, 2013, 09:31:48 PM
 #1877

A strong, technical party, say a HFT trader, could manipulate the market probably very easily. Bitcoin is still rather small. I would wonder, what would happen, if a financial institute starts buying and mining bitcoins and hide them after that. Thus making the amounts of bitcoins smaller and smaller and then at a certain moment, dump them quickly through various (unconnected) channels.

Is there some way to check the amount of circulating bitcoins? That would be interesting.
BladeRunner
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April 06, 2013, 10:08:10 PM
 #1878

I was thinking that "Trust No One" also applies to groups of people. Currently with the price of bitcoins skyrocketing like it is, I wonder if financial entities might have found in bitcoin a new way to sucker us out of our hard earned money, artificially driving up the price of the bitcoin and riding the roller coaster up they way they same way they have done during the coure of modern history?

What mechanisms are there in place to counter manipulation of the bitcoin system? What measures can be taken to reduce the volatility of the bitcoin?

What good is it for me to have my bitcoins in a physical wallet, secure from everyone, when the actual value of the bitcoin can be manipulated?

How can I protect myself against this?

There are only so many bitcoins that will ever be made. that number is around 21mil. They get harder and harder to make and there is where the perceived value is. Unlike Fiat money printed on paper. The banksters can just print more money until the paper is worth more than the value on the money itself. When you have exchanges there is no guarantee that the market wont be manipulated. Any market even stock market can be manipulated. A roller coaster can be a good thing. Volatility creates margins and margins can be profitable if you buy and sell at the right time.

Its still experimental. It could just vaporize away or it could be one of those things your grand kids ask, if you were there when the crypto currency took off?
franl
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April 06, 2013, 10:33:16 PM
 #1879

But it is good advise, you give, but just don't distrust trust.

It will hurt the currency in the long run. I have converted some of my euros into bitcoins, because I have trust in the system.

You don't have to trust "the system" with Bitcoin.  The algorithms and crypto are public.  As long as a majority of hashpower is operated by honest nodes, the blockchain is the _truth_ of who owns which coins. (I have a concern about how we can _know_ that the majority of hashpower is operated by honest nodes, but that's another question altogether).

You don't have to trust the Bitcoin "system", but you have to trust people. You have to trust vendors whom you pay to give you what you paid for (this is true even in a cash economy), but vendors who repeatedly rip off their customers tend to go out of business. You have to trust people with whom you share your private keys, such as family and friends in the event of your death (though secret-sharing protocols can keep them from knowing the secret without a quorum). Note the pattern here: wetware has to be trusted (sometimes), but the algorithms don't have to be trusted.
--
Fran
tomwoods
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April 07, 2013, 12:05:50 AM
 #1880

There are only so many bitcoins that will ever be made. that number is around 21mil. They get harder and harder to make and there is where the perceived value is. Unlike Fiat money printed on paper.

Tulips where also in limited quantity http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulip_mania and that didn't stop people from being manipulated into turning their hard earned money into vapor. That is, if I and a few cronies have enough financial power and I start buying and trading large quantities of bitcoins we can manipulate the price, start a bitcoin fever (like might be happening right now) and then sell them to all at once, we can do this time and time again to sucker people out of their money.

The price of BTC going up makes me distrust the system. I love it, don't get me wrong, and I love its filosophy. Still, I would like to put forward that when you make tons of money with no effort, this is a distortion and someone is going to get screwed. It's like that moment when you are 12 and you are running so fast that you know you are bound to trip and mess your face up big time.

Personally I'd prefer a descentralized system that when I convert fiat money to it, I know the value would maintain and that no one would have power over its value other than me.
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