NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information

[joefox]

Okey, take a look from the other side: it will be greatest anti-PR.
Just imagine: instead of writting code for multisig, devs just create code hacks to emulate multisig. Ugly code hacks.
"Hey, they premied 1 billion coin in code, now they spend coins in code, next time they block your coins in code! Greatest scam in history!!! Do Jean-Luc piss by BCNext's command?  " (Sorry, Jean-Luc, it is joke )

This, this, this. I can't believe the hypocrisy of insisting that the community should implement multisig, followed by a ludicrous proposal to FAKE multisig for the sake of coin distribution.

BCNext should eat his own dog food. If he wants to distribute coins this way, he should prioritize the implementation of a Nxt feature that supports its implementation for EVERYONE.

I can accept the anarchic, inconsistent, and schizophrenic method by which bounties and rewards are being distributed, but this implementation of a distribution mechanism is the worst I've heard.

Again: I think the IDEA is great. The specific method of IMPLEMENTATION is stupid. Really stupid.

Frankly, I think the whole idea is just a test, and the fact that so many people are ready to +1 it just because the idea (allegedly) came from BCNext is, IMHO, proof of failure.

I don't mean to malign Nxters. I listened to a Bitcoin podcast today that illustrated that most Bitcoin adopters are far more ignorant than the average Nxt adopter. But we can do better.

[utopianfuture]

Okey, take a look from the other side: it will be greatest anti-PR.
Just imagine: instead of writting code for multisig, devs just create code hacks to emulate multisig. Ugly code hacks.
"Hey, they premied 1 billion coin in code, now they spend coins in code, next time they block your coins in code! Greatest scam in history!!! Do Jean-Luc piss by BCNext's command?  " (Sorry, Jean-Luc, it is joke )

This, this, this. I can't believe the hypocrisy of insisting that the community should implement multisig, followed by a ludicrous proposal to FAKE multisig for the sake of coin distribution.

BCNext should eat his own dog food. If he wants to distribute coins this way, he should prioritize the implementation of a Nxt feature that supports its implementation for EVERYONE.

I can accept the anarchic, inconsistent, and schizophrenic method by which bounties and rewards are being distributed, but this implementation of a distribution mechanism is the worst I've heard.

Again: I think the IDEA is great. The specific method of IMPLEMENTATION is stupid. Really stupid.

Frankly, I think the whole idea is just a test, and the fact that so many people are ready to +1 it just because the idea (allegedly) came from BCNext is, IMHO, proof of failure.

I don't mean to malign Nxters. I listened to a Bitcoin podcast today that illustrated that most a Bitcoin adopters are far more ignorant than the average Nxt adopter. But we can do better.

If BCNext has some problems of holding the fund until we have voting and multi-signs in place, the most logical way is to just send them back to the genesis. It certainly not the most popular idea https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=418695.0 ; but as I said it is actually the most logical solution, imho.

[loopgate88]

so I was thinkinkg..:

- we don't have a nice client
- we don't have nice exchanges
- we don't have full source code
- we don't have all functions

What does it mean?

We - all 15.000 Nxt users are pre-beta ORIGINAL STAKEHOLDERS

The Distribution of NXT is extremely fair - now it is 50 days when we are still in alfa version like in some IPO.

We haven't launched yet. We can forget about some 73 stakeholders... Now everyone has an opportunity to jump on the train... and also to drive him!

This is true.


So many want something for nothing. Complaining about the price and fairness of initial distribution? This asks for a Big Lebowski quote.

"Your revolution is over, Mr. Lebowski. Condolences. The bums lost. My advice is to do what your parents did; get a job, sir. The bums will always lose."

"The bums will always lose."

[Rassah]

Is this one of those examples of how a coin's value depends on the developers backing it, and not on features it promises?

[ImmortAlex]

Frankly, I think the whole idea is just a test, and the fact that so many people are ready to +1 it just because the idea (allegedly) came from BCNext is, IMHO, proof of failure.

I have same feelings. But I can't tell that it was failure. Just compare bunch of happy "+1" posts just after original C-f-B message and more or less argumented posts (both sides) after.

If BCNext has some problems of holding the fund until we have voting and multi-signs in place, the most logical way is to just send them back to the genesis. It certainly not the most popular idea https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=418695.0 ; but as I said it is actually the most logical solution, imho.

Yes, it is

anarchic, inconsistent, and schizophrenic

but looks much more logical in light of decentralization.

[ImmortAlex]

Is this one of those examples of how a coin's value depends on the developers backing it, and not on features it promises?

Promised features are nothing without developers. Developers are nothing without customers.
IMHO, right now Nxt community do much more job than developers. At least in promotion. It's not because devs are lazy, it's because community is large.

[msin]

Okey, take a look from the other side: it will be greatest anti-PR.
Just imagine: instead of writting code for multisig, devs just create code hacks to emulate multisig. Ugly code hacks.
"Hey, they premied 1 billion coin in code, now they spend coins in code, next time they block your coins in code! Greatest scam in history!!! Do Jean-Luc piss by BCNext's command?  " (Sorry, Jean-Luc, it is joke )

This, this, this. I can't believe the hypocrisy of insisting that the community should implement multisig, followed by a ludicrous proposal to FAKE multisig for the sake of coin distribution.

BCNext should eat his own dog food. If he wants to distribute coins this way, he should prioritize the implementation of a Nxt feature that supports its implementation for EVERYONE.

I can accept the anarchic, inconsistent, and schizophrenic method by which bounties and rewards are being distributed, but this implementation of a distribution mechanism is the worst I've heard.

Again: I think the IDEA is great. The specific method of IMPLEMENTATION is stupid. Really stupid.

Frankly, I think the whole idea is just a test, and the fact that so many people are ready to +1 it just because the idea (allegedly) came from BCNext is, IMHO, proof of failure.

I don't mean to malign Nxters. I listened to a Bitcoin podcast today that illustrated that most a Bitcoin adopters are far more ignorant than the average Nxt adopter. But we can do better.

I disagree, BCNext is choosing 10 trusted members of the community to distribute the coins accordingly.  In essence he is creating what everyone here has been screaming for, a Nxt foundation.  For JLC, he can program 10 new locked accounts as a safeguard, probably a new Nxt feature that will require a different pass code to send.  You are right, probably a test of a new feature.  

[dzarmush]

Why it's so important to decide and to it right now what to do with that 10M. Everything goes just fine! Let's just go with the flow.

Does anybody have a great idea? Let's vote if it should be done and then vote how much we should spend on it. What can be easier?

Somebody suggested to make a photoshoot with girls to advertise Nxt. Let's do it. Share ideas of the photoshoot, draw sketches etc. Then vote for the best idea and size of a bounty. And so on with the rest of unclaimed money.

[salsacz]

so I was thinkinkg..:

- we don't have a nice client
- we don't have nice exchanges
- we don't have full source code
- we don't have all functions

What does it mean?

We - all 15.000 Nxt users are pre-beta ORIGINAL STAKEHOLDERS

The Distribution of NXT is extremely fair - now it is 50 days when we are still in alfa version like in some IPO.

We haven't launched yet. We can forget about some 73 stakeholders... Now everyone has an opportunity to jump on the train... and also to drive him!

I should probably add this quote:

Why was the initial funding cancelled suddenly with few people?
BCNext: I wanted Nxt to be launched by the community, not by a single person.  Success of Nxt is supposed to be achieved by work of a LOT of PEOPLE.

BCNext knew that Java binaries could be easily decompiled, everything in Nxt is made on purpose. U'll get most of the answers in the last part of BCNext's plan...

[utopianfuture]

Why it's so important to decide and to it right now what to do with that 10M. Everything goes just fine! Let's just go with the flow.

Does anybody have a great idea? Let's vote if it should be done and then vote how much we should spend on it. What can be easier?

Somebody suggested to make a photoshoot with girls to advertise Nxt. Let's do it. Share ideas of the photoshoot, draw sketches etc. Then vote for the best idea and size of a bounty. And so on with the rest of unclaimed money.

I have something similar in mind. It is like a concept of "open bounty". Anyone can step up and present his/ her idea, propose a bounty and let the community decides. So we continue the tradition of asking for bounties in a decentralized fashion as we have been already doing in nextcoin and nxtcrypto forums so far. But now funding would be a bit easier to come by since we have common pool in addition to private donors's fund.

This will work easier when we have the voting system in place. A person presents his/ her idea, propose a bounty and action plan, and set up a vote. Community can ask questions in the meantime and when the voting is over, the project will be funded if the vote passes the majority. A democratic and decentralized method of funding projects.

We can even implement this type of "open bounty" even when the voting system is not yet in place. In fact, we actually did it one time already with the case of Maco's android app as the overwhelming majority refused to fund his 500K NXT request for his app. So we actually had a precedent in place already. Let's continue the funding process in this type of decentralized fashion instead of giving one person/ or group the authority of giving out the funds.

[ImmortAlex]

I disagree, BCNext is choosing 10 trusted members of the community to distribute the coins accordingly.  In essence he is creating what everyone here has been screaming for, a Nxt foundation.  For JLC, he can program 10 new locked accounts as a safeguard, probably a new Nxt feature that will require a different pass code to send.  You are right, probably a test of a new feature.  

What feature community want to test? Centralization? Occam's razor? May I recommend to choose twelve trusted members?

I honour community opinion to create Nxt foundation, but I strongly disagree with this opinion. Especially with option to create foundation inside code.

[dzarmush]

Why it's so important to decide and to it right now what to do with that 10M. Everything goes just fine! Let's just go with the flow.

Does anybody have a great idea? Let's vote if it should be done and then vote how much we should spend on it. What can be easier?

Somebody suggested to make a photoshoot with girls to advertise Nxt. Let's do it. Share ideas of the photoshoot, draw sketches etc. Then vote for the best idea and size of a bounty. And so on with the rest of unclaimed money.

I have something similar in mind. It is like a concept of "open bounty". Anyone can step up and present his/ her idea, propose a bounty and let the community decides. So we continue the tradition of asking for bounties in a decentralized fashion as we have been already doing in nextcoin and nxtcrypto forums so far. But now funding would be a bit easier to come by since we have common pool in addition to private donors's fund.

This will work easier when we have the voting system in place. A person presents his/ her idea, propose a bounty and action plan, and set up a vote. Community can ask questions in the meantime and when the voting is over, the project will be funded if the vote passes the majority. A democratic and decentralized method of funding projects.

We can even implement this type of "open bounty" even when the voting system is not yet in place. In fact, we actually did it one time already with the case of Maco's android app as the overwhelming majority refused to fund his 500K NXT request for his app. So we actually had a precedent in place already. Let's continue the funding process in this type of decentralized fashion instead of giving one person/ or group the authority of giving out the funds.

Does anyone have objections? It seems like a great model to me.

[dzarmush]

I disagree, BCNext is choosing 10 trusted members of the community to distribute the coins accordingly.  In essence he is creating what everyone here has been screaming for, a Nxt foundation.  For JLC, he can program 10 new locked accounts as a safeguard, probably a new Nxt feature that will require a different pass code to send.  You are right, probably a test of a new feature.  

What feature community want to test? Centralization? Occam's razor? May I recommend to choose twelve trusted members?

I honour community opinion to create Nxt foundation, but I strongly disagree with this opinion. Especially with option to create foundation inside code.

Ok. What's your proposal?

[allwelder]

I remember that :someone link the relation between publickey,secret Password and the Security before,but I can found it now,Can anyone help to provide this information?

Thanks.

[msin]

Is this one of those examples of how a coin's value depends on the developers backing it, and not on features it promises?

This is an example of a troll who comes in after page 1000 and gives his 2 cents which is based on the last 3 posts prior to his own.

[BitAddict]

Hi guys!

Today I was inspired and I wrote this in the Spanish forum. I would like to translate it to English but I'm really tired and my English suck, so I hope someone can help me

I'm sure that after you read my text you are going to like to use it to spread the word of NxT. And to explain why is better than bitcoin or any PoW currency.

This is the translate using google translator, if someone can fix it to sounds good would be great

The bitcoin mining network will stabilize once is unprofitable for to the companies to create ASICs . Logically when the price of bitcoin go up or advance ASIC technology , the difficulty of mining would continue to rise .

But let that currently 3,600 bitcoins day it is what is spent on network bitcoin mining. A current price amounts to € 2,000,000 more per day, which will only grow as the price of bitcoin also continue to rise .

That money primarily goes to :
1. Chipmakers .
2. Manufacturers of mining .
3. Vendors miners. Generally tend to be the same as in point 2.
4 . Utilities .
5 . Pools mining .

6 . Miners ... Oh wait! That consequently they not only NOT make money, but also lose to pay the party since the previous day with 3,600 bitcoins do not have enough  



Now let's see how the PoS network structure to ensure security in a large peer network that bitcoin .

Costs per node :
- Occasional Node : User who uses your PC to make node while using for other tasks. Total annual cost : ~ 0 €
- Commercial Node : Raspberry pi 50 € (say 5-year amortizing for example) + electricity costs € 5 / year + antiDDOS System 40 € / year. Total annual spending 55 € / year or € 0,15 / day

Looking at the numbers it does not take a genius to realize that compared to the cost PoW to ensure the network is ~ 0 € .


Summary:
Annual expenditure secure bitcoin network : 3,600 [ btc ] * 365days = 1,314,000 [ btc ] . A price of € 788 million today . ( And we're not telling you what the miners lose !)
Annual expenditure ensure PoS network : I'll put 1 million € , to give something. That would have 18,000 professionals for nodes , plus all casual .

With the PoS system saving € 787 million annual direct impact on the system itself.
It would be money instead of enriching the points 1-5 on PoW centralized system (and remove the item 6 ) , you enrich the users and that the money would not be lost in the PoS system. (Money not lost = Money earned )


I keep thinking about € 787 million per year , but if it is .... 10% of the current price of bitcoin ! WOW!

Seasoned reader -Wait!
Seasoned reader -That money is also part of the bitcoin distribution, to make the system more fair! ( Will be discussed with emphasis )
Commentator - Yes , but that money was supposed to also be shared among users to decentralize the system ... not for a few centralized companies with it all . And this is the general trend for the 50% remaining undermine bitcoins .
Seasoned reader - * Facepalm *

If someone wants the original in Spanish you can find it here --> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=379701.msg4575144#msg4575144

[lyynx]

I don't see what the rush is to distribute the 10 million Nxt, is there a specific reason? In addition, if the individuals are trusted, why would the code need to be changed just to accommodate them? This just doesn't make sense, perhaps I am misunderstanding?

We need features, and to make features we need developers, this is where the Nxt or Nxt>BTC should be spent (or atleast 80% of it). All the hoopla regarding Nxt has died down now and I believe we have reached critical mass in the Bitocointalk community as shown be the diminishing accounts being created everyday. Everyone that is here now and participating is obviously committed, so I can say for sure we have a strong community of Nxt'ers.

The next milestone will be general public adoption, at least the general crypto community and for that we need a rock solid client that hopefully supports forging and a reliable network. In my opinion, being second generation, we need to get to the point where this can be run securely on a mobile phone (transaction and forging) - to me - that is second generation, but that can come down the road as we have plenty to work on regarding the core of Nxt.

All this talk about marketing is great, I work in that space, however, it is not needed at this time and perhaps never will be. All energy and funds (if needed) need to go to development, at least in the next couple of weeks.

I vote that the majority of funds either be dedicated to development or destroyed.

[msin]

Why it's so important to decide and to it right now what to do with that 10M. Everything goes just fine! Let's just go with the flow.

Does anybody have a great idea? Let's vote if it should be done and then vote how much we should spend on it. What can be easier?

Somebody suggested to make a photoshoot with girls to advertise Nxt. Let's do it. Share ideas of the photoshoot, draw sketches etc. Then vote for the best idea and size of a bounty. And so on with the rest of unclaimed money.

I have something similar in mind. It is like a concept of "open bounty". Anyone can step up and present his/ her idea, propose a bounty and let the community decides. So we continue the tradition of asking for bounties in a decentralized fashion as we have been already doing in nextcoin and nxtcrypto forums so far. But now funding would be a bit easier to come by since we have common pool in addition to private donors's fund.

This will work easier when we have the voting system in place. A person presents his/ her idea, propose a bounty and action plan, and set up a vote. Community can ask questions in the meantime and when the voting is over, the project will be funded if the vote passes the majority. A democratic and decentralized method of funding projects.

We can even implement this type of "open bounty" even when the voting system is not yet in place. In fact, we actually did it one time already with the case of Maco's android app as the overwhelming majority refused to fund his 500K NXT request for his app. So we actually had a precedent in place already. Let's continue the funding process in this type of decentralized fashion instead of giving one person/ or group the authority of giving out the funds.

No matter how much we obsess about the 10M, the distribution and implementation is happening, it's BCNext to do with as he pleases.  We need to start focusing on a voting mechanism so we can decide what to actually do with the 10Mil.

[NxtChoice]

To promote Nxt, one more Nxt is enough and one more Nxt can do a lot. That's what I get from my recent "3 More Nxt" project.

I'm always thinking how to let people know, learn and experience more about Nxt. Two days ago, I got this idea before I got up and then I posted it to the forum. I have posted it in bitcointalk, nextcoin.org and nxtcrypto forum. Until now, the post in nextcoin.org got a lot attentions and I have sent total 12*3 = 36 coins out. It's not a lot, but it changes a lot for Nxt and more and more users started their frist transaction through this project. I hope you all, not only those who meet the direct requirements for this project, enjoy Nxt! So please add a link to this project if you think it's good to Nxt. Thank you.

Now I'd like to share some quotes for you.

Sent 1 NXT, my first spend)

1620027207958157392 is my account, thanks!

I just made my first Nxt transaction! Exiciting!

Thanks man, 6786112381976165665

Thanks for the 3 NXT! I received them after only a couple of hours!

I get Not enough funds message

It seems I send 1 NXT to my own acoount.
http://87.230.14.1/nxt/nxt.cgi?action=2000&tra=11468045880419688248

Will try to send 1 NXT to you again.

But first ley me ask you if the attached file is OK

This guy sent Nxt to himself. Yeah, it's not so surprised. Even I had the same error yesterday, I sent 3 Nxt to the project account from the same account when I wanted to send 3 Nxt to those who sent in.

Also, some guys wrote me to express appreciation and encourage to do this project. It's my pleasure to contribute to Nxt community through my efforts. As a cryptocurrency, I'd hope it's transferred in and out. For those users have never sent Nxt out, I provide this opportunity to experience the transaction of Nxt and can also earn some Nxt. Furthermore, if you have no transaction out, your account is only protected by 64-bit entropy and it might be possible that your account secret can be found with a brute-force attack in the near future or, with a collaborative effort of enough computation power, even now. Once there is a public key in the NXT block chain for your account, it is protected by 256-bit entropy, which currently is enough to prevent brute-force attacks (reference here). One of the direct way to get your public key is to do a simple transaction out, so this is again the opportunity for you to get get public key and make your account security and earn some Nxt at the same time.

Have fun.

[xgc]

I am looking for someone who wants to unload 400kNXT for 10BTC via Anon136 escrow.


https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=420520.msg4569690#msg4569690
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AuZ9UiDk97ajdFQtdHN2RElUQU10NjdqRUNkWm5uUlE