NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information

[okaynow]

Voting based on wealth is what democracy was in previous time in the west where one would have to be a landowner to have voting rights.

Yes, that period was called the dark ages.
Humanity has passed that mark.

[admiral.fu]

How about a hybrid system?

Merging both systems and giving them 50% power.

Number of "Yes" Votes/ Total Number of Votes = % Yes Votes
Number of NXT Voting "Yes" / Total Number of NXT Voting = % Yes NXT Votes
[% Yes Votes + % Yes NXT Votes] / 2 = Final % Yes Votes

On first glance it makes sense, need to think about it. Creating  thousands of accounts to push through opinions might be reduced this way.

[NxtChg]

The aim is to be sure it's one voter, one vote. (I hope)
I am not tech savvy enough to ascertain that within a digital environment without giving up identity.

Is there?

Nope, it looks like a fundamentally unsolvable problem.

That's why other methods are proposed, like PoS and PoW (captchas, etc.).

[coolmist]

How about a hybrid system?

Merging both systems and giving them 50% power.

Number of "Yes" Votes/ Total Number of Votes = % Yes Votes
Number of NXT Voting "Yes" / Total Number of NXT Voting = % Yes NXT Votes
[% Yes Votes + % Yes NXT Votes] / 2 = Final % Yes Votes

On first glance it makes sense, need to think about it. Creating  thousands of accounts to push through opinions might be reduced this way.

GAHHHH I've posted a solution to this four times already.

we are trying to find a way to verify the unique identity of a voter in an anonymous environment.
does that strike as odd to anyone else?

Yes, my approach lessens the voting weight of accounts that share similar voting patters. I posted a walkthrough of the methodology a while ago but I guess it flew over people's heads.

votingweight = ( 1 / similarity ) ^ (4/3) * (accountbalance)^(1/3) * (accountage)^2 (timesvoted)^(3/2)


or something along these lines. "similarity" increases as accounts make the same voting choices as other accounts.

timesvoted= amount of times that account number has voted

timesvoted prevents people from creating additional accounts to circumvent the similarity variable

[okaynow]

honest question to everyone thinking about how to implement voting procedures.

we are trying to find a way to verify the unique identity of a voter in an anonymous environment.
does that strike as odd to anyone else?

The aim is to be sure it's one voter, one vote. (I hope)
I am not tech savvy enough to ascertain that within a digital environment without giving up identity.

Is there?

not a coder either, but i don't think this has more to do with coding than it does with philosophy or polsci.
actually i believe that the one(digital anonymity) nullifies the other(certainty of unique identity)

[marcoslopez]

I have an idea....

the common enemy....

lets all blame nexern because we have no client

Engage.....


Pin

I miss your tutorial youtube videos¡¡¡¡¡¡

thanks pin¡¡¡¡¡

[EvilDave]

I have an idea....

the common enemy....

lets all blame nexern because we have no client

Engage.....


Pin

Bad nexern.......

Meanwhile, back at the voting debate:

I'm getting a headache from this, it's like organising cats.

My proposal: small group of guys organise, throw up a quick and dirty voting website as soon as possible, taking as much community feedback into account as possible.

We vote, see how it goes, then change/modify/tweak the voting system until the flood of complaints about it are reduced to a minimum.

I propose: utopianfuture, smartwart, coolmist (and anyone else who feels really strongly about it or has the tech skills to get a site up) form a working group and throw something up on the Webs to try out.

[admiral.fu]

Anonymity (no passport required) and fair voting is quite impossible under circumstances where one person can hide behind several accounts.
Besides even in elections where passport id is required it is very often the case that votes are bought.

So someone rich paying minions to cast the desired vote is a real possibility. I wonder if this will ever happen in NXT community.
Those must be damn important decisions to trigger something like that.

[EvilDave]

Hey...look at the price !!!

Cool , eh?

Edit: Now in 5th place on CoinMarketCap, just rolled over Mastercoin. Go, NXT!

[NxtChg]

I propose: utopianfuture, smartwart, coolmist (and anyone else who feels really strongly about it or has the tech skills to get a site up) form a working group and throw something up on the Webs to try out.

You mean like this?

http://nxtra.org/voting/add.php

We stopped because CfB said there will be a built-in voting system, though it's unclear where one can read any details about it...

[kunibopl]

please explain why does a bigger wallet has to have more saying than  a small wallet.

please provide ONE mathematical model, that would not be gamed in favor of the big stakeholders.

do it and we will be all ears!

[msin]

Yeah, this is getting ridiculous, we usually fill 30 pages of voting arguments with no results.  I still think we need to keep it tied with AM, so it can be easily implemented into a client down the road.  Think of like this, I want to start a voting topic using weslyn web tool, I fill in the parameters, it creates a Nxt account specific to that topic, everyone votes by sending me a public AM "Yes" or "No".  I can then check for duplicates, blockchain height, etc.. when tallying votes.  The block chain wins because forgers are rewarded with Nxt used to vote.

[Damelon]

I would just like to throw one thing that has been mentioned by a few people into the arena and then call it quits for the day on this topic for me:

At this moment it is not yet clear whát we will be able to vote about. If it's development of the total Nxt infrastructure, then it's hugely influential.
If it's basically relatively easy things, it isn't all that dangerous anymore.

I agree by the way that major development needs to come out of the community itself by developing features, and are not voteable topics, unless they would upset the balance of the total system (if that's even possible)

[Asian Prepper]

The aim is to be sure it's one voter, one vote. (I hope)
I am not tech savvy enough to ascertain that within a digital environment without giving up identity.

Is there?

Nope, it looks like a fundamentally unsolvable problem.

That's why other methods are proposed, like PoS and PoW (captchas, etc.).

Maybe this will help to spark some ideas on a good voting system:

http://www.mathgoespop.com/2012/03/and-the-award-for-best-voting-system-goes-to.html

Tai Zen

[NxtChg]

Yeah, this is getting ridiculous, we usually fill 30 pages of voting arguments with no results.  I still think we need to keep it tied with AM, so it can be easily implemented into a client down the road.  Think of like this, I want to start a voting topic using weslyn web tool, I fill in the parameters, it creates a Nxt account specific to that topic, everyone votes by sending me a public AM "Yes" or "No".  I can then check for duplicates, blockchain height, etc.. when tallying votes.  The block chain wins because forgers are rewarded with Nxt used to vote.

Why do you need AM's here, when the site can check everything for you?

Compare the steps required to send AM to a specific account for a specific vote to going to a site and clicking a button.

All issues and all votes will be in one place, clearly visible to everyone, even without a NXT account.

And why do we need to load blockchain when we can avoid it?

[coolmist]

please explain why does a bigger wallet has to have more saying than  a small wallet.

please provide ONE mathematical model, that would not be gamed in favor of the big stakeholders.

do it and we will be all ears!

votingweight = ( 1 / similarity ) ^ (4/3) * (accountbalance)^(1/3) * (accountage)^2 (timesvoted)^(3/2)

gamed in favor of Account Age, previous amount of votes cast on issues, and moderately by account balance.

Similarity prevents a large account being split into smaller accounts.

I will explain similarity if anyone is interested...

[EvilDave]

Yeah, this is getting ridiculous, we usually fill 30 pages of voting arguments with no results.  I still think we need to keep it tied with AM, so it can be easily implemented into a client down the road.  Think of like this, I want to start a voting topic using weslyn web tool, I fill in the parameters, it creates a Nxt account specific to that topic, everyone votes by sending me a public AM "Yes" or "No".  I can then check for duplicates, blockchain height, etc.. when tallying votes.  The block chain wins because forgers are rewarded with Nxt used to vote.

Yup, I've had enough, we keep going thru the same cycle over and over without any progress.
Hence my idea of setting up a voting website to function as a testbed for the voting process.
Once the voting site has been used, modified and tweaked , and is working to (almost) everyones satisfaction, we can transfer its feature set into NXT client.

[Damelon]

The aim is to be sure it's one voter, one vote. (I hope)
I am not tech savvy enough to ascertain that within a digital environment without giving up identity.

Is there?

Nope, it looks like a fundamentally unsolvable problem.

That's why other methods are proposed, like PoS and PoW (captchas, etc.).

Maybe this will help to spark some ideas on a good voting system:

http://www.mathgoespop.com/2012/03/and-the-award-for-best-voting-system-goes-to.html

Tai Zen

An AI tech friend of mine dabbles in this kind of system and will be proposing it to municipalities in the Netherlands.
He calls it "modular voting" where you basically get a bag of votes that you can distribute over issues in a weighted system.
Thanks for that link!

[NxtChg]

votingweight = ( 1 / similarity ) ^ (4/3) * (accountbalance)^(1/3) * (accountage)^2 (timesvoted)^(3/2)

gamed in favor of Account Age, previous amount of votes cast on issues, and moderately by account balance.

Similarity prevents a large account being split into smaller accounts.

I will explain similarity if anyone is interested...

So you've decided the font size will give more weight to your idea?

[okaynow]

please provide ONE mathematical model, that would not be gamed in favor of the big stakeholders.

Mathematics are not the issue.

Are you implying that because ones knowledge of math(mine) is not enough, then everyone else who knows equal or less or more math than me has more voting power because he has a bigger wallet?? This is what is being discussed.