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Author Topic: NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information  (Read 2755942 times)
Hacer88
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February 10, 2014, 12:38:26 PM
 #31721

So let's bury/ignore the idea with possibility of canceling transactions.

Moving on.

+1

Cancelling because you made a mistake and already clicked accidentally is a different story though.

So something like a cancelling option within 10 seconds could be nice if this is wanted by the community.
But 24 hours is too much indeed.

NXT - NEM - NAS - NFD
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February 10, 2014, 12:39:53 PM
 #31722

So something like a cancelling option within 10 seconds could be nice if this is wanted by the community.

Easily added into a client (i.e. just don't broadcast the tx until 10 seconds have elapsed with a button to cancel and a countdown) - no need to muck around with the protocol for something as simple as that.

With CIYAM anyone can create 100% generated C++ web applications in literally minutes.

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delulo
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February 10, 2014, 12:42:29 PM
 #31723

2 questions:

Any idea when about the decentralized exchange will be ready to use?

Is nxt vulnerable to the Transaction Malleability problem bitcoin has?


anyone?
Hacer88
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February 10, 2014, 12:43:32 PM
 #31724

So something like a cancelling option within 10 seconds could be nice if this is wanted by the community.

Easily added into a client (i.e. just don't broadcast the tx until 10 seconds have elapsed with a button to cancel and a countdown) - no need to muck around with the protocol for something as simple as that.


Nice!

NXT - NEM - NAS - NFD
pinarello
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February 10, 2014, 12:44:58 PM
 #31725

Raising awareness.

IMO that is the *wrong* way to do it - and is only going to motivate other coins to start posting FUD memes about Nxt in retaliation.

You *reap* what you *sow*.


the man has a point here.

Come-from-Beyond
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February 10, 2014, 12:46:10 PM
 #31726

Is nxt vulnerable to the Transaction Malleability problem bitcoin has?

Bitcoin doesn't have Transaction Malleability problem. MtGox does.

Nxt exchanges shouldn't rely on transaction ids though. Coz ids can be changed in a way similar to Bitcoin.
mcjavar
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February 10, 2014, 12:46:15 PM
 #31727

So something like a cancelling option within 10 seconds could be nice if this is wanted by the community.

Easily added into a client (i.e. just don't broadcast the tx until 10 seconds have elapsed with a button to cancel and a countdown) - no need to muck around with the protocol for something as simple as that.


Nice!

A cancel till the first confirmation would be great. I am always affraid of clicking on "send" when I know it is irreversible.
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February 10, 2014, 12:47:20 PM
 #31728

Nxt exchanges shouldn't rely on transaction ids though.

Now what was I saying about "glass houses". Wink

With CIYAM anyone can create 100% generated C++ web applications in literally minutes.

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delulo
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February 10, 2014, 12:54:49 PM
 #31729

Is nxt vulnerable to the Transaction Malleability problem bitcoin has?

Bitcoin doesn't have Transaction Malleability problem. MtGox does.

Nxt exchanges shouldn't rely on transaction ids though. Coz ids can be changed in a way similar to Bitcoin.

thanks from beyond there.

What about the the decentralized exchange? How far is it and any expectations when it will be ready?
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February 10, 2014, 12:57:43 PM
 #31730

The idea was to prevent hacking and emptyings.

Is almost impossible to make a error sending by placing the phrase and all. Tongue

My next idea to prevent hacking and emptyings consists to create a second key 16-32 characters.
That would register like the ALIAS. Key is not used to unlock the account, only to send!
The key can be changed.
EmoneyRu
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February 10, 2014, 12:58:44 PM
 #31731

Code:
63096 15'475 + 19 282 %
?

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February 10, 2014, 01:01:47 PM
 #31732

Nxt exchanges shouldn't rely on transaction ids though. Coz ids can be changed in a way similar to Bitcoin.

So - there we have it from CfB - Nxt has THE SAME problem as Bitcoin.

Can you please stop the stupid tweets now as I can see CfB's statement being used as the "payback".

With CIYAM anyone can create 100% generated C++ web applications in literally minutes.

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abctc
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February 10, 2014, 01:02:36 PM
 #31733

Code:
63096 15'475 + 19 282 %
?
- correct.

█████████████████████████████████████████████████
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, the Next platform.  Magis quam Moneta (More than a Coin)
BitcoinForumator
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February 10, 2014, 01:04:15 PM
 #31734

Nxt exchanges shouldn't rely on transaction ids though. Coz ids can be changed in a way similar to Bitcoin.

So - there we have it from CfB - Nxt has THE SAME problem as Bitcoin.

Can you please stop the stupid tweets now as I can see CfB's statement being used as the "payback".


Delete this asap  Grin

Edit: i will delete it to  Cheesy
jkoil
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February 10, 2014, 01:06:47 PM
 #31735

if you're asking if negative input is legal, yes it is.

To simplify it, it's similar to how modulo operates in C.
If you do:
Code:
int x = (1-3) % 5;    // -2 % 5

you'll get "-2" as a result, but what you're actually interested in is:
Code:
int x = (1-3 + group_order) % 5;    // (-2 + 5) % 5  = 3 % 5 == 5

group_order == 5, and you'll get 3 as a result...

Yes, I know.

So, the problem is that -2 or 3 is processed further and we are not certain if -2 behaves differently than 3 does. That is certainly a problem.

EDIT: we are not certain if the 3 resulting from a -2 is process the same way as we would give it another try.

"-2" is passed as input to verify() which was expecting to see "3" not "-2"...


But it is not sure, if -2 in form as a 3 would result in the same outcome as it would be a 'real' 3 from the beginning.

In math  -2 mod 5 equals 3.   Is that the result, which is wanted?    ... in that case C implementation is wrong there and should not use % with negative numbers. (change to positive by adding 5)




I think that's not the point here. Consider this:
Code:
b = f(a)

c = g(b)

d = h(a, c)

Let's assume c results in -2 with a certain b.

Even if c=-2 and c=3 are interchangeable mathematically, h might not work as expected as the pair (a, c) belong together.

So, it could be the case that h(a, -2) != h(a, 3) for the very same a. This must be avoided at any cost.

yes ... and no Smiley   
No; I didn't mean that c=-2 and c=3 are interchangeable. The results and consequences are likely different, possibly in "many" cases, where the c will be used (in h(a,c) as you  stated).
Yes; as you said "this must be avoided at any cost."   I agree, when not knowing the background of the original implementation (has it been assumed that no negative input or something else...)  Smiley



NXT, NEM.   NCMXTP-5JWUF3-QYHADC-YWELC5-QPUWF3-EAVFQM-MU7R
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February 10, 2014, 01:08:55 PM
 #31736

Delete this asap  Grin

Just as those who "couldn't resist" trying to "score points" from the FUD - I can't resist keeping the "told you so".

Grin

With CIYAM anyone can create 100% generated C++ web applications in literally minutes.

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BitcoinForumator
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February 10, 2014, 01:11:29 PM
 #31737

Delete this asap  Grin

Just as those who "couldn't resist" trying to "score points" from the FUD - I can't resist keeping the "told you so".

Grin


I know Smiley But many/most? of us actually put a lot of weight to your words.
wesleyh
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February 10, 2014, 01:11:50 PM
 #31738

So why does nxt have this problem too? Is this something inherent to crypto currencies?

Can it be fixed?
Will it be fixed?
What should exchanges rely on instead of transaction Ids / transaction bytes?
bitcoinpaul
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February 10, 2014, 01:13:07 PM
 #31739

The idea was to prevent hacking and emptyings.

Is almost impossible to make a error sending by placing the phrase and all. Tongue

My next idea to prevent hacking and emptyings consists to create a second key 16-32 characters.
That would register like the ALIAS. Key is not used to unlock the account, only to send!
The key can be changed.


BCNext implements Account Control. Let's wait for that...
CIYAM
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February 10, 2014, 01:16:23 PM
 #31740

So why does nxt have this problem too? Is this something inherent to crypto currencies?

Can it be fixed?
Will it be fixed?
What should exchanges rely on instead of transaction Ids / transaction bytes?

It is due to the way a tx is constructed and hashed - if the signature(s) do not include every byte of the transaction then it will always be possible to modify the tx and if the hash is of the entire tx (not just the signed part(s)) then there is not much you can do about it apart from:

Don't rely upon the tx hash (something Mt. Gox should never have been doing in the first place).

Nxt does actually make things simpler in that you can just use Account #s (you don't have to deal with UTXOs).

An exchange should only display a txid *after* the tx has been confirmed (until then it should just be displayed as "unconfirmed" with no hash at all) and even then the txid should only be handled as "descriptive" data (i.e. not indexed for any important purpose).

With CIYAM anyone can create 100% generated C++ web applications in literally minutes.

GPG Public Key | 1ciyam3htJit1feGa26p2wQ4aw6KFTejU
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