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Author Topic: Economic Devastation  (Read 503960 times)
rpietila
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October 15, 2015, 01:16:25 PM
 #2001

Europeans are much more enslaved by the Zionists than the Americans.

Ah quit that please. You haven't been to Europe - if you had, you would know that there is a population of clueless people here as well as in America. Europeans generally believe Americans to be much more clueless than they themselves are (and certainly the contrary).

In my observation, Europeans are less permeated with the consumerism and more by the socialism, vs. the Americans. Both are not good of course.

There is a population of very brilliant unprogrammed (or deprogrammed) minds in America, as well as in Europe.
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October 15, 2015, 01:38:06 PM
 #2002

You want unprogrammed, check out sub-Saharan Africa.  Other cultural problems though.

Jack Lew popped this one today: U.S. debt limit 11/3. Wtfbbq!

Give a man a fish and he eats for a day.  Give a man a Poisson distribution and he eats at random times independent of one another, at a constant known rate.
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October 15, 2015, 06:57:12 PM
 #2003


Ah quit that please. You haven't been to Europe - if you had, you would know that there is a population of clueless people here as well as in America. Europeans generally believe Americans to be much more clueless than they themselves are (and certainly the contrary).

In my observation, Europeans are less permeated with the consumerism and more by the socialism, vs. the Americans. Both are not good of course.

There is a population of very brilliant unprogrammed (or deprogrammed) minds in America, as well as in Europe.

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October 16, 2015, 07:20:02 AM
Last edit: October 16, 2015, 08:38:22 AM by TPTB_need_war
 #2004

Europeans are much more enslaved by the Zionists than the Americans.

Ah quit that please. You haven't been to Europe - if you had, you would know that there is a population of clueless people here as well as in America. Europeans generally believe Americans to be much more clueless than they themselves are (and certainly the contrary).

In my observation, Europeans are less permeated with the consumerism and more by the socialism, vs. the Americans. Both are not good of course.

There is a population of very brilliant unprogrammed (or deprogrammed) minds in America, as well as in Europe.

Why quit searching for the truth. Although your statement is true about some individuals perhaps, it is largely fiction (about dedication to collectivism being on equal footing to individualism and unprogrammed Americans) and also it misses the point of my post which was about the collective fate. That is not to argue that most Americans are unprogrammed (and perhaps roughly at least 50% of them subscribing to collectivism), but we do have some true individualists amongst us.

I meant collectively. Europeans are collectivists and thus are more enslaved. We don't have slides shaped like penises for our 5 years to slide down at the parks. We don't have skirt days for boys. We don't even have fully implemented socialized medicine (ObamaCare) yet and many people fighting against it. We have our guns. Europe is fucked. Get over it. That such "unprogrammed" Europeans aren't willing to sacrifice their life over not having the Constitutional right to bear arms, exemplifies a fundamental distinction.

And even Europeans in this forum who are level-headed also subscribed to some socialism. Even you were defending China's future and their embrace of socialism to me in private Skype conversations in 2012. Even you who thought the best way to organize crypto projects and forums was collectively with handing power/control to top-down reputation.

Some of us Americans believe in true individualism and grass-roots creation, i.e. anarchy or no *archy. It is a strange ideology for Europeans, because culturally they have always been under Kings, princes, barons, etc., i.e. some form of *archy. They just look at the organization of action as differently than we Americans do.

From his observations in meeting with similarly ranked NATO military officers, my former Air Force Lt. Colonel best friend once basically said to me something like Europeans do consultations and Americans roll up their sleeves and "Just Do It" (Nike slogan). Americans are thus perceived to be much more crude, haphazard (unorganized), unsophisticated and uncultured. We don't really worry about the implications of not consulting and not organizing. We just get something done. Sort of the low-hanging fruit approach. If you have enough independent actors attempting solutions, then eventually one of them is the solution. Whereas, consultation is either gridlock or the lowest common denominator result.

For example, you can see this occur now in the USA, where the people suddenly don't care who they elect as long as they elect someone who is not the political class. They just get something done and don't really care about the implications of anything except the low hanging fruit of "get 'er done, elect anyone but the politically correct". It is a vote for what is not wanted (logical nor or joint denial), not a vote for the common denominator of what is wanted (logical conjunction).

Trump polling at 38% in Nevada. Jeb Bush at 6%. Trump, Carson, and Fiorina together have 68% of the vote in Nevada when none of them have ever held political office.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/latest_polls/president/
If these polls are correct, then millions of people are essentially saying "Fuck it. Put a surgeon in the White House. Put a real estate guy in there. Anything's better than what we have."

Bernie Sanders still in the double-digits.

So loss of confidence in government here in America continues to accelerate.

The fact that Armstrong's model predicted that 2016 would be a peak in 3rd party, non-establishment people is pretty unreal.

If these polls are correct, then millions of people are essentially saying "Fuck it. Put a surgeon in the White House. Put a real estate guy in there. Anything's better than what we have."

LOL best thing I read all day

Meanwhile in Europe we have more political consultations. Ya' know you have to consider everything and do what is best for all and all for one.

This explains why Martin Armstrong's models predict the USA breaking up in regions. For Europe I expect them to collectively go down the tubes together, one for all and all for one.

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October 16, 2015, 10:26:19 AM
 #2005

I meant collectively. We don't have slides shaped like penises for our 5 years to slide down at the parks. We don't have skirt days for boys. We don't even have fully implemented socialized medicine (ObamaCare) yet and many people fighting against it. We have our guns. Europe is fucked. Get over it.

You are doing your own credibility harm by statements that are backed by neither fact, logic nor experience. For instance, European countries still enjoy more independence than U.S. states have had since 1865. This does not fit to your worldview solely because you lack the prerequisite knowledge in the subjects needed to understand it.

Quote
Even you who thought the best way to organize crypto projects and forums was collectively with handing power/control to top-down reputation.

The fact is that my crypto projects are at least going somewhere despite your lack of recognition.

Yours are not, despite all my goodwill and appreciation and offers to help.
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October 16, 2015, 04:01:56 PM
 #2006

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The Japanese are like the Germans of Asia, they are perfectionists with extreme attention to details.

I think the Japanese people and the Japanese government deserve two separate comparisons because the people save alot which has allowed their government to take advantage and distribute alot of new money against that security.   Also they have the oldest working population profile in the world with a very low birthrate, Germany has immigration and Japan does not, this difference changes alot with internal growth.   Also Germany is the diametric opposite on fiscal responsibility due to its past of a failed government and currency in the 1920's

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October 16, 2015, 05:09:49 PM
Last edit: October 16, 2015, 06:03:22 PM by TPTB_need_war
 #2007

I meant collectively. We don't have slides shaped like penises for our 5 years to slide down at the parks. We don't have skirt days for boys. We don't even have fully implemented socialized medicine (ObamaCare) yet and many people fighting against it. We have our guns. Europe is fucked. Get over it.

You are doing your own credibility harm by statements that are backed by neither fact, logic nor experience. For instance, European countries still enjoy more independence than U.S. states have had since 1865. This does not fit to your worldview solely because you lack the prerequisite knowledge in the subjects needed to understand it.

There is nothing that you stated as a fact which is antithetical to my world view. You are building a strawman in order to try assail my opinion that Europe is more fucked because the people are more socialism retarded. I think the facts speak clearly on this issue. I have searched for a European who could be a counter example, and you are the closest I've found, yet even you have demonstrated that love (idolization) of social contract and of hierarchies.

Since you may prefer the word of the Bible (given your acknowledged devout Christianity), let me speak to you in that tongue. Did you not hear the world of your Lord in 1 Samuel 8? He said there is only 1 king and you don't need to be ruled over if you follow that 1 king. Romans in the Bible is what happens to those who refuse 1 king. So when you tried to install feudalism into crypto forums and Monero governance, then you got precisely the evils of Romans as your Lord promised in 1 Samuel 8. Even a State ruling over you is anathema to this command for the Lord. The liberty-minded Americans have their guns so ultimately they are not ruled by the State.

I did not make a statement that wasn't fact. I challenge you to quote me and point out which statement wasn't factual. All that you quoted from me above is fact except for my predictions of Europe being fucked which must be proven in the near future (but I can place a large bias on my statement being fact based on the chart from Armstrong which shows Europe is far ahead in decades of USA's future decline, Europe's massive socialism problem, USA+Mexico's drastic advantage in exporting as exemplified by that chart I displayed recently, etc).

Moving the goals to a constructed strawman about State sovereignty has no bearing whatsoever on the points I made. My point is that the Europeans themselves embrace the social contract and some millions of Americans are willing to die with their guns in their cold dead hands to protect their individualism. Americans have a long history of ignoring the government. That the people don't have the economic incentive to overturn the State sovereignty issue up to now, is not a factual reflection of the attitude of the people about sovereignty. You made a category error. The people don't have any incentive to waste their resources up to now fighting for State sovereignty, when in fact the liberty-minded Americans (certainly not all Americans) are much more interested in individual sovereignty than State sovereignty. Extremists in Europe would instead be the neo-nazis (who will come back into vogue) who want to rise to State power (Hitler redux) to enforce their idealistic conservatism based in aggression and inflicting control over others (contrasted against American Patriots who want to fight directly in defense against the State and as individuals or members of a ragtag militia in a non-aggression principle and not wanting to inflict any ideals on society-at-large). You as a reader of the Bible should be aware of this bolded distinction because Jesus taught the distinction in a famous statement:

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+22

17 So tell us what you think: Does the Law allow people to pay taxes to Caesar or not?”

18 Knowing their evil motives, Jesus replied, “Why do you test me, you hypocrites? 19  Show me the coin used to pay the tax.” And they brought him a denarion. 20 “Whose image and inscription is this?” he asked.

21 “Caesar’s,” they replied.

Then he said, “Give to Caesar what belongs to Caesar and to God what belongs to God.”

Even you who thought the best way to organize crypto projects and forums was collectively with handing power/control to top-down reputation.

The fact is that my crypto projects are at least going somewhere despite your lack of recognition.

Yours are not, despite all my goodwill and appreciation and offers to help.

What was the name of the crypto forum you were involved with starting, that is I assume now defunct or at least never gained any significant adoption. I remember I was banned there and had to slog through all this nonsense about reputations and rankings of which members were the most prestigious sort of like a redux of feudal Europe, etc.. You tried to reinstate me and I said I wasn't interested in that forum any more because of the top-down philosophy (can't scale).

Then there were the attempts to top-down manage Monero forming some sort of organization with reputations and ranks (but I admit I am pretty much ignorant of that because I wasn't even interested in knowing).

And finally the attempts to top-down manage Bitcoin investors telling them to buy and HODL all the way down from $1000 to $300. Instead of encouraging people make their own individual decisions (which is always more fitness because no one person is omniscient and more diverse opinions makes a more resilient market). I hoped you learned from those experiences and not defend them.

CryptoKingdom is afaik a project which you have created and run. That is the epitome of individualism and so finally you are catching on that success and scaling come from individual creativity and not from committees with their groupthink gridlock. And a few times I have commended you on that effort and even mention it as an example of an attempt to bring greater use of Monero. I have doubted whether a game would scale large enough to compete with Bitcoin as a use case, but it is a start. And if many people were creating various use cases, then again the individual creativity model is what scales and that could have a big impact. So we will have to see if Monero has built the platform that will incentivize so many individuals to do that spontaneously on their own initiative.

Yes you have shown me much goodwill and appreciation and I have also to you. But there is an occasional friction between us on issues like this, because I like to view things factually and I guess it bothers you when the facts disagree with your worldview.

That I haven't accomplished a lot in crypto yet is as you know a reflection of being terribly ill. But in fact, I have invented the most novel crypto technology since Satoshi, and this will hopefully be fully published and proven to be fact, if the community is willing to pay me what I think that very significant work is worth. I will soon be setting up the donation page so we can determine if the donation model of funding really works or not.

But the more salient point which I hope you will recognize so that you can be very successful ongoing is that the greatest achievements of yourself and myself have come from individual creativity. You got to BTC10,000 by making individual decisions to divest silver and invest in BTC < $10. And I earned $90,000 a month (inflation adjusted) in 2001, based on an individual creativity of creating the CoolPage software and publishing it all by myself.

I really don't understand why you are fighting me. You even admitted that Europe is more socialist. I am very much willing to meet a European who doesn't believe in the social contract. Do you know any? I know you believe in the social contract and honest governance (and my philosophy is that honest governance is impossible and the social contract is the corrupter of governance).

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October 16, 2015, 05:27:31 PM
 #2008

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Europe is more fucked because the people are more socialism retarded

I used to believe that, Europe is left and USA is right leaning but both are on the left and the whole spectrum has been rebased so very few countries are conservative in their fiscal or general policy.   Many countries now support 50% GDP spent within government with the inevitable tax on the economy.

Germany is a large exporter to the world, for whatever its faults it has that beneficial external component to its activities for guidance in its economy.  USA has fallen behind though it was once true in a similar fashion its economy now needs reform.   France has problems with unions and restrictive business practise.  Im not sure on every EU country but are many are not balanced but I think its a general problem such that China no longer stands out as an especially controlling country for business which is kinda amazing

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October 16, 2015, 05:33:38 PM
Last edit: October 16, 2015, 06:12:36 PM by TPTB_need_war
 #2009

Quote
Europe is more fucked because the people are more socialism retarded

I used to believe that, Europe is left and USA is right leaning but both are on the left and the whole spectrum has been rebased so very few countries are conservative in their fiscal or general policy.   Many countries now support 50% GDP spent within government with the inevitable tax on the economy.

Again I can't see why everyone is missing my point. Some millions of Americans have guns. They are sovereign. Europeans do not. Period. (except for a few hunting licenses, but Americans have AR-15s and other weapons capable of fighting the government or any invading army)

I wish it wasn't the case and that I could count on Europe to be a bastion of individual sovereignty warriors.

I can't find a single European who doesn't believe there should be at least some social contract with honest governance. The idea of total individual sovereignty is alien to every single European I have ever encountered.

America is basically split into the idiotssimpletons that don't really believe in socialism for idealistic reasons but just want to suck the tit of debt-consumerism and welfare, and the Constitutionalists who are fiercely individually sovereignty minded. There are other subsets, but basically it boils down to that major split.

Whereas, Europeans are ideologically invested in the concept of a social fairness and contract. Fairness is Marxism and it is very ingrained in European psychology. Whereas, Americans are bribed but they don't really for the most part believe in Marxism ideologically (well some have been indoctrinated and repeat the words but I think they are too stupidpreoccupied/uninterested to even understand what they are saying in any ideological sense, in reality they just love their Walmart and food stamps and rent assistance).

And this unity of ideology is why I believe (and Armstrong's model seems to predict) that Europe will crash and burn in unison and America will crash but splinter into regions of failure and rejuvenated success. The liberty-minded with guns with cast off the dead weight. Europe will carry its dead weight all the way to the grave.

To be totally transparent, Armstrong has mentioned independence movements in Europe. And he has stated an opinion that he think the EU will end (in its current form or maybe he just said Greece will exit by 2022 or so), but he is starting to realize lately that EU will be converted to a federalism with taxing authority at Brussels in order to fix the original design problem of the Euro where the sovereign debts weren't consolidated when the currency was.

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October 16, 2015, 05:43:47 PM
 #2010

Quote
Europe is more fucked because the people are more socialism retarded

I used to believe that, Europe is left and USA is right leaning but both are on the left and the whole spectrum has been rebased so very few countries are conservative in their fiscal or general policy.   Many countries now support 50% GDP spent within government with the inevitable tax on the economy.

Again I can't see why everyone is missing my point. Some millions of Americans have guns. They are sovereign. Europeans do not. Period. (except for a few hunting licenses, but Americans have AR-15s and other weapons capable of fighting the government or any invading army)

I can't find a single European who doesn't believe there should be at least some social contract with honest governance. The idea of total individual sovereignty is alien to every single European I have ever encountered.

America is based split into the idiots that don't really believe in socialism for idealistic reasons but just want to suck the tit of consumerism and welfare, and the Constitutionalists who are fiercely individually sovereignty minded. There are other subsets, but basically it boils down to that major split.

Whereas, Europeans are ideologically invested in the concept of a social fairness and contract. Fairness is Marxism and it is very ingrained in European psychology. Whereas, Americans are bribed but they don't really for the most part believe in Marxism ideologically (well some have been indoctrinated and repeat the words but I think they are too stupid to even understand what they are saying in any ideological sense, in reality they just love their Walmart and food stamps and rent assistance).

And this unity of ideology is why I believe (and Armstrong's model seems to predict) that Europe will crash and burn in unison and America will crash but splinter into regions of failure and rejuvenated success. The liberty-minded with guns with cast off the dead weight. Europe will carry its dead weight all the way to the grave.

I am european and this is 100% true. Especially the part about guns, its been engrained into my mind that they are bad and they should be forbidden to everyone
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October 16, 2015, 06:42:35 PM
 #2011

Again I can't see why everyone is missing my point. Some millions of Americans have guns. They are sovereign. Europeans do not. Period. (except for a few hunting licenses, but Americans have AR-15s and other weapons capable of fighting the government or any invading army)

I can't find a single European who doesn't believe there should be at least some social contract with honest governance. The idea of total individual sovereignty is alien to every single European I have ever encountered.

America is basically split into the idiotssimpletons that don't really believe in socialism for idealistic reasons but just want to suck the tit of debt-consumerism and welfare, and the Constitutionalists who are fiercely individually sovereignty minded. There are other subsets, but basically it boils down to that major split.

Whereas, Europeans are ideologically invested in the concept of a social fairness and contract. Fairness is Marxism and it is very ingrained in European psychology. Whereas, Americans are bribed

To be totally transparent, Armstrong has mentioned independence movements in Europe. And he has stated an opinion that he think the EU will end (in its current form or maybe he just said Greece will exit by 2022 or so), but he is starting to realize lately that EU will be converted to a federalism with taxing authority at Brussels in order to fix the original design problem of the Euro where the sovereign debts weren't consolidated when the currency was.

I cant comment on every nation but some have guns, Swiss are maybe the most liberal

They are probably the most self governed also, I think they rule by state not so national with local taxes.

Not sure about social contract but as a European I'd argue anyone should be allowed to live tax free on a self sustained basis without becoming criminalised.   If you want to live in a forest and provide for yourself ok, its just thats not modern life and Europe is mostly far too crowded so that resources must be shared.   So maybe you can write a book and pay no taxes for this simple act but if you want to publish it nationally then the publisher should be taxed and the sale of the book in shops would be taxable, general large business activity but nobody should be going to jail on a personal basis for simply living and doing work.  Thats my idealist take, a contract to government would be do no harm and pay for what you use otherwise be free.  When a company is taxed, it removes some income available from all employees, we dont have to be chasing individuals nearly so much as they are already within that taxed situation

USA is bribed as is everywhere, the natural state is capitalism not that is it demanded but because it reflects what people do anyway.  A study of economics is not to change what is true but to know what exists regardless of laws and rules

Greece doesnt matter, its a fly on the windshield.   The only reason it matters is how it obstructs or influences peoples view of the much larger picture that is wider europe.   They are just a pawn in the game and they play it as such.   A proper system would just hold debts against creditors, its nothing to do with any of the rest of us and its destructive to waste our time and resources occupying world commerce with squabbles and demands.  If money does anything its to direct attention correctly to what is most productive; you know all this is a failure in conclusion when we do the opposite, occupied with stagnant government incompetence

Quote
EU will be converted to a federalism with taxing authority at Brussels
Im not sure that is a radical thought as we'd just be copying the Washington DC model then ?    Not every part of the EU is under the thumb as you think, it does vary.  Not all have Euro.   The splinter idea I like and I'd like believe it could be true that in failure some will find greater success away from the previously non working governance.  If it happens in USA it will also happen in europe that some states benefit though believing they are worse off without Brussels, longer term it'll be more obvious

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October 16, 2015, 06:58:21 PM
 #2012

I cant comment on every nation but some have guns, Swiss

The Swiss have to store their bullets in government warehouses thus their guns are useless for being individually sovereign against their very corrupt government. Sorry I had already researched that. Even Finland isn't a gun haven any more.

Not sure about social contract but as a European I'd argue anyone should be allowed to live tax free on a self sustained basis without becoming criminalised.   If you want to live in a forest and provide for yourself ok, its just thats not modern life and Europe is mostly far too crowded so that resources must be shared.   So maybe you can write a book and pay no taxes for this simple act but if you want to publish it nationally then the publisher should be taxed and the sale of the book in shops would be taxable, general large business activity but nobody should be going to jail on a personal basis for simply living and doing work.  Thats my idealist take, a contract to government would be do no harm and pay for what you use otherwise be free.  When a company is taxed, it removes some income available from all employees, we dont have to be chasing individuals nearly so much as they are already within that taxed situation

Yup you just demonstrated this ideological distinction between Europeans and the liberty-minded Americans. What you stated is Marxism. You said that if you only earn enough to pay your basic subsistence expenses, then you don't have to share but otherwise you must live in a commune and be forcibly separated from your profitable production. I know for a fact that all tax is gamed by those who can control the power vacuum of democracy. Honest governance can't exist. Thus Communists always end up in totalitarian hell. Liberty-focused Americans knows this, but Europeans are entirely blind to it.

That you are crowded has nothing to do with the fact that if you reward failure and penalize success, then you get failure. And if you do it by having a collective pot of tax and power, then you get to add megadeath every time to the failure busts.

USA is bribed as is everywhere, the natural state is capitalism not that is it demanded but because it reflects what people do anyway.  A study of economics is not to change what is true but to know what exists regardless of laws and rules

If you think Europe is any less bribed, hahaha.

Socialists build a strawman of hate on capitalism, but the fact is that if you don't have collective pot of tax and power, then there is no such thing to corrupt.

Corporations have always gained their leverage by using government enforced monopolies. Take away the government and the corporations are eaten away by the more nimble smaller capitalists. This is especially more true in the Knowledge Age where high economies of scale for fixed capital investment in factories is no longer economically important going forward.

Greece doesnt matter, its a fly on the windshield...

It matters because it shows (the test model case for) how Europe will devolve by forcing federalism from the top-down from Brussels and Germany.

Also because when Greece defaults, so do all the banks of Europe.

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October 16, 2015, 07:14:42 PM
 #2013

It didnt have to be that way that all banks will default from Greece.  Losses would have occured, amalgamation between banks.  As most of the banks were German, Merkel then took action with her Government and we misdirected power towards what was private debt afaik.  

Thats Germany dominating europe and being helped by political allies.  Not all of Europe backs that idea.    

I agree with what you are saying mostly, that top down power is an unstable system and centralised funds are misused, inefficient and wasted almost.   Capitalism is a bottom up power distribution, the capital with people just like votes are with people in a democracy and you cant force everyone to agree with you.   Hence where bribing and misdirection comes in

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but otherwise you must live in a commune and be forcibly separated from your profitable production.
I dont really believe that, I just didnt fully expand what I'd prefer.   Im just saying it'd be a great improvement if we concentrated less on taxing people for simple work they do to live and support a family.   Large business and public listed companies, thats harder to defend but yes on the extreme end I'd prefer business to be as free as possible and taxes to be as low as possible.   No force should be used against a working profitable operation and often threats are made by government, leveraging its power to its advantage and to fund itself and mostly this can be seen as corrupt.   However I'd rather we start with people individually being free, it is possible for a large business to dominate a market and bad practise to occur even if at present its government doing most of the harm

When Trump said some people should pay no taxes that shouldnt be some revolutionary headline grabber, it should be that we all recognise common sense being spoken (I dont even like the guy but I'm glad someone famous said it).  In a very simple way, rather then enforce minimum wages and more regulation on business with badly directed 'rights' we should just ensure people who are already poor are not being taxed.   Government wants to track everyone though, its paranoid we are all secretly rich
One point I'll make is that this is already partly true in UK, there are no income taxes below $15,500   which is very low money but at least its something.    Its not too optimistic to believe some parts of Europe will go this way not communism, thats a cliché and it doesnt work and most realise that

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October 16, 2015, 07:19:05 PM
 #2014

...

tptb wrote:

"Also because when Greece defaults, so do all the banks of Europe."

Yes, banks are so highly leveraged, and bank managers are so greedy to extract every last penny (or euro cent too) that the banks are very vulnerable to defaults.  Even a small country like Greece puts the banking system in danger.  Why else would Europe so strenuously work to find a "solution", even if only a Band-Aid?

Banks are also very vulnerable to a variety of other risks such as a stock market decline.  US banks are vulnerable to European banks failing as well as vice-versa.
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October 16, 2015, 07:29:38 PM
 #2015

there are no income taxes below $15,500   which is very low money but at least its something

Ditto in the USA and you even can get an Earned Income Credit and other tax rebates for taxes you never paid if you have a couple of dependent kids, so you get paid roughly $4000 from the government for not paying any taxes. I told you many Americans are in love with the bribes in the welfare system.

But all poor people are taxed with gasoline taxes, sales and VAT taxes, cigarette and alcohol taxes, etc..

And the poor are "taxed" by debt and 20% interest rates on credit cards.

Look there is no way to remove the fact that government will never take care of anyone. The only purpose of government is a racket to steal for the powerful. That is way an anarchy minded American thinks. Whereas, a European would not want a chaotic outcome. They'd want some reasoned society. Americans are "don't tread on me". No other predominant consideration, just "don't tread on me". It is not a theoretical, rather it is "I have a gun and you are not going to tread on me, except via my cold dead hand".

We don't pity poor people in the USA as much. I mean we will help out individual cases of genuine hardship on a community level, but the Patriots have the attitude that poor people create their own poverty by being lazy and unmotivated by the welfare system.

But not all Americans are liberty focused. So I am saying there is a very big split in the society. This will come out as civil war soon...

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October 16, 2015, 07:35:17 PM
 #2016

Ok maybe there is a difference that will have an effect.
Quote
bribes in the welfare system.

But all poor people are taxed with gasoline taxes, sales and VAT taxes, cigarette and alcohol taxes, etc..
Yes all people are taxed, overtaxed.   I'd like to see a no tax or flat tax system setup somewhere reasonably as a demonstration for good commerce not just exploited as a counterparty to the larger dollar dominated world we all live in

The biggest asset that banks hold now is government debt like they used to hold mortgage and sub prime debt as their core assets and it was a disaster.   The problem was the core value altered drastically which left all those banks vastly under funded.   In the far east they didnt buy this type of debt, only secondary problems there I believe
So now what happens when Greek or other countries sovereign debt is drastically altered in value in a similar way.   Every bank reform has the grand idea of making them hold larger amounts of government debt, a nice backup to large national fiscal deficits.    Its another failure in the making, the stock market is not actually a cause more like the scales on which the problem will be weighed.  

Ultimately stocks always go up when national currencies run into trouble, YEN Euro and Dollar all were devalued greatly in the last decade and prior and that will continue.  Zimbabwe stocks went up, its economy got worse.   Its ironic that if banks relied on stocks markets they would be better off then now relying on fixed government debt of countries spending too much, bad working practices restricting commerce so stalling or choking tax income (so it appears to me)

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October 16, 2015, 07:38:24 PM
Last edit: October 16, 2015, 07:51:51 PM by TPTB_need_war
 #2017

The biggest asset that banks hold now is government debt  ... Its another failure in the making

I believe this is totally by design in order to force a crisis that leads to European federalization and consolidation of the debts across national boundaries in order to remove State sovereignty from Europe. And Europeans are in no position whatsoever to resist this because they don't even have the mindset that governance is bad and the guns to retain individual sovereignty.

Russia can slice through Europe like a hot knife through warm butter, which can be the pretext for Brussels/NATO to take greater control in a military emergency.

You know the elite never waste a good crisis. And they are good at manufacturing crises.

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October 16, 2015, 09:12:00 PM
 #2018

The biggest asset that banks hold now is government debt  ... Its another failure in the making

I believe this is totally by design in order to force a crisis that leads to European federalization and consolidation of the debts across national boundaries in order to remove State sovereignty from Europe. And Europeans are in no position whatsoever to resist this because they don't even have the mindset that governance is bad and the guns to retain individual sovereignty.

Russia can slice through Europe like a hot knife through warm butter, which can be the pretext for Brussels/NATO to take greater control in a military emergency.

You know the elite never waste a good crisis. And they are good at manufacturing crises.

Excellent post.

The situation is not as grim as you present it, however. Not all politicians are evil, most are incompetent, but there are quite many who try to resist the federalization within the system.

For instance, unlike US, the European militaries are by and large in nationalist control. TPTB has tried to convert them to NATO armies whose equipment can be switched off from Pentagon if they turn against the puppetmasters, but this has not been completely achieved.

Finland has 0.9 million trained reserve (US trained reserve is 2.8 million). Finnish reservists are ordinary guys, I have undergone 9 months special forces reservist training myself. If even the US has problem making their troops mindless killing machines, with Finnish army it is a given that it will not be used to further TPTB goals. European generals have non-NATO coordination meetings, working behind the scenes to keep the situation as it is.

United States cannot invade Europe, despite all that you have conditioned yourself to believe. Heck, they have not been able to conquer and keep any place they have invaded since Hawaii.

Russia could invade Europe, but of course they have no reason to do it. In case of US invasion, Russia is called for help instead.

When I received this information from a knowledgeable source, I was first afraid that I have been given a secret to keep concerning the military shadow governance in Europe (I don't keep secrets). I was assured that the information is public, and all the parties mentioned in the text know it very well. The Deep State matters are deep. Focusing on one actor (TPTB) alone is prudent only when no other actors exist, otherwise it is folly.


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October 16, 2015, 10:27:28 PM
Last edit: October 16, 2015, 11:43:12 PM by THX 1138
 #2019

We don't pity poor people in the USA as much. I mean we will help out individual cases of genuine hardship on a community level, but the Patriots have the attitude that poor people create their own poverty by being lazy and unmotivated by the welfare system.

So if you are holding down three jobs and still can't afford to live, do Patriots still consider it is the fault of the poor working person; that they are to blame for not having a better paying job, that they don't have any right to survive with any degree of dignity? Sure, poor people can't expect the taxpayer to foot the bill if they want to have another kid while they're claiming; that is taking the piss. I agree we have to live within our means and not expect a free ride. But while there are indeed many lazy and unomotivated people who's poverty could be described as being self-inflicted due to indolence (I've lived in two seperate apartment blocks where perfectly able-bodied unemployed welfare claimants regularly partied into the night, keeping the worker neighbours up, who told anyone to f*** off with a dismissive swagger if they even made the most polite request to keep the noise down...and numerous other examples), I've also known other poor people who are in no way feckless, who are decent and extremely motivated yet are still held back by knock after knock (not having the time or money to retrain). Surely the onus can't simply and conveniently be put onto individuals who are ordinary, don't excel in one field or another, or may not have had the privileges of others; the social contacts, expensive schooling etc; that it is always their own fault they aren't wealthy and successful. It's not all down to merit and sink or swim. We can't all be entrepeneurs; somebody still has to do the work - for the moment at least.

The system is gamed and compromised whether it is Marxists at the helm or the crony-capitalists we are suffering now. Do you know of any totally unfettered truly free market capitalist country either now or in history? You could say that none of us has any entitlement to anything, sure, and I'd go along with that for the most part. We could just live a dog eat dog existance (if you're poor and without welfare then simply mug someone), but most of us require at least some degree of civilization so that we are not living a stressed life like a wild animal. I guess in Europe freedoms are traded for a measure of security. None of these ideologies work outside of a textbook long-term, not with real people, with all their attendant frailties.

( EDIT: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-10-16/capitalism-explained-2015-you-have-two-cows )

Marxists call me a capitalist, and vice versa.

By the way TPTB, are you officially out of retirement from the forum now?  Wink
 
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October 17, 2015, 12:24:56 AM
 #2020

...

rpietila

Your comment is the first I have ever seen discussing a US invasion of Europe.  There is no way that would/will ever happen.  As you point out, the continent is far away from US shores.  And, we trade with Europe, our tourists visit Europe and we buy German cars.  Why would we want to invade?  Europe doesn't even have any natural resources we would like to seize...

The thought of Russians coming to the aid of Europe during a US invasion, now THAT makes me smile.  Smiley

Nor does Europe have any guns we would like to seize, we have our own.

Have no fear Europe!  Have no fear Britain!  The Yankees are NOT coming!  Rest easy!
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