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Author Topic: Economic Devastation  (Read 503960 times)
CoinCube
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July 18, 2016, 06:23:19 PM
Last edit: July 18, 2016, 07:01:56 PM by CoinCube
 #2641

Just an answer for the unknown and revolves around the sun mostly...

"All the powers in the universe are already ours. It is we who have put our hands before our eyes and cry that it is dark." - Swami Vivekananda

Modern society is a mechanism for inculcating bad habits, especially the habit of seeking instant pleasure, intoxications and distractions; a habit of regarding ourselves as passive recipients for ‘entertainment’. A devout life is not so much about a flash of understanding but is mostly a matter of using insights into truth in building-up good habits; and this can be influenced by our will. A devout life enables one to build these habits and most importantly successfully pass them on to our children.

Quote from:  Terryl and Fiona Givens
Whatever sense we make of this world, whatever value we place upon our lives and relationships, whatever meaning we ultimately give to our joys and agonies, must necessarily be a gesture of faith. Whether we consider the whole a product of impersonal cosmic forces, a malevolent deity, or a benevolent god, depends not on the evidence, but on what we choose, deliberately and consciously to conclude from that evidence… If we decide to leave the questions unanswered, that is a choice; if we waver in our answer that too is a choice: but whatever choice we make, we make it at our peril.

What we choose to embrace, to be responsive to, is the purest reflection of who we are and what we love. That is why faith, the choice to believe, is, in the final analysis, an action that is positively laden with moral significance.

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July 18, 2016, 06:55:58 PM
 #2642

Religion is just an excuse to do or dont do things.

Better give it up and think rationally.

I would argue that, by the definition of religion quoted above, since you are not (on the evidence of your post) sessile, you are manifesting a religion.


Give a man a fish and he eats for a day.  Give a man a Poisson distribution and he eats at random times independent of one another, at a constant known rate.
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July 19, 2016, 12:16:54 AM
 #2643

Religion gives clarity to some people in their thinking, it can give perspective and understanding of others situations and a wider view of what is an influence in others as well as yourself.   It can easily be viewed as fairy tales and obstructive, even destructive with current events it is constantly repeated as a reason for violence but I think its generally more a phenomena towards understanding not hatred or ignorance

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|ROULETTE
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July 19, 2016, 03:26:04 AM
 #2644


Religion gives clarity to some people in their thinking, it can give perspective and understanding of others situations and a wider view of what is an influence in others as well as yourself...

I would go far beyond that and argue that ethical monotheism is the single greatest contributor to human progress from any source since human culture emerged from the stone ages. This force which emerged first in Judaism and and spread throughout the world via the mediums of Christianity and Islam continues to shape human destiny even in a time when much of the world foolishly rejects it as irrelevant.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/mono.html
Quote from: Dennis Prager
Nature is amoral. Nature knows nothing of good and evil. In nature there is one rule—survival of the fittest. There is no right, only might. If a creature is weak, kill it. Only human beings could have moral rules such as, "If it is weak, protect it." Only human beings can feel themselves ethically obligated to strangers.
...
Nature allows you to act naturally, i.e., do only what you want you to do, without moral restraints; God does not. Nature lets you act naturally - and it is as natural to kill, rape, and enslave as it is to love.
...
One of the vital elements in the ethical monotheist revolution was its repudiation of nature as god. The evolution of civilization and morality have depended in large part on desanctifying nature.
...
Civilizations that equated gods with nature—a characteristic of all primitive societies—or that worshipped nature did not evolve.
...
Words cannot convey the magnitude of the change wrought by the Bible's introduction into the world of a God who rules the universe morally.
...
ethical monotheism suggests more than that God demands ethical behavior; it means that Gods primary demand is ethical behavior. It means that God cares about how we treat one another more than He cares about anything else.

Thus, ethical monotheism's message remains as. radical today as when it was first promulgated. The secular world has looked elsewhere for its values, while even many religious Jews, Christians, and Muslims believe that Gods primary demand is something other than ethics.

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July 20, 2016, 09:23:42 PM
 #2645

Religion is just an excuse to do or dont do things.

Better give it up and think rationally.

I would argue that, by the definition of religion quoted above, since you are not (on the evidence of your post) sessile, you are manifesting a religion.


Illogical. You cannot say that rational thinking is irrational, or that non-religious thinking is a religion.


Civilizations that equated gods with nature—a characteristic of all primitive societies—or that worshipped nature did not evolve.


Interesting, but non-civilization had also it's benefits, humans, although had to fight hard to survive, lived a much free-er life than in society with many people all with their crazy ideas trying to force them on one another.

When Earth's population was under 100,000 it was literally paradise on Earth.

If it was not, then how the hell can the idiot marxists believe that they will create paradise with 7-8 billion violent people, if the 100,000 people were not able too?

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July 20, 2016, 10:19:23 PM
 #2646

Religion gives clarity to some people in their thinking, it can give perspective and understanding of others situations and a wider view of what is an influence in others as well as yourself.   It can easily be viewed as fairy tales and obstructive, even destructive with current events it is constantly repeated as a reason for violence but I think its generally more a phenomena towards understanding not hatred or ignorance

My take is that all religions are built around a cataclysmic event that wiped out most of humanity - the Great Flood. This was not a fable or myth but an actual full scale event, and the advent of religion was a construct of survivors attempting to explain why it happened - see Plato writing that Atlantis was destroyed because the people had become materialistic etc etc. Of course the tale survives as myth as the most reliable way to pass down memory of such events was through story.

Now however, religion is used for a different purpose, as you mention above.
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July 21, 2016, 02:26:45 AM
Last edit: July 21, 2016, 04:12:28 AM by CoinCube
 #2647

Interesting, but non-civilization had also it's benefits, humans, although had to fight hard to survive, lived a much free-er life than in society with many people all with their crazy ideas trying to force them on one another.

When Earth's population was under 100,000 it was literally paradise on Earth.

If it was not, then how the hell can the idiot marxists believe that they will create paradise with 7-8 billion violent people, if the 100,000 people were not able too?

To find a time when humanity was in harmony aka in equilibrium with nature you have to go back at least 70,000 years ago. Humanity appears to have been on the verge of extinction at that time.

https://genographic.nationalgeographic.com/human-journey/
Quote
According to the genetic and paleontological record, we only started to leave Africa between 60,000 and 70,000 years ago. What set this in motion is uncertain, but we think it has something to do with major climatic shifts that were happening around that time—a sudden cooling in the Earth’s climate driven by the onset of one of the worst parts of the last Ice Age. This cold snap would have made life difficult for our African ancestors, and the genetic evidence points to a sharp reduction in population size around this time. In fact, the human population likely dropped to fewer than 10,000. We were holding on by a thread.

It is the survivors of this near extinction who appear to have made some form of fundamental technological, social or evolutionary leap that allowed humanity to break the prior constraints which had kept its population small and limited to Africa.

http://blog.23andme.com/news/the-first-population-explosion-human-numbers-expanded-dramatically-millennia-before-agriculture/
Quote
The authors found genetic evidence for a surge in human population size about 40,000 to 50,000 years ago. This period, just after humans first set foot outside Africa, is of great interest to archaeologists because it coincides with a dramatic increase in the sophistication of human behavior. People began crafting tools from bone, burying their dead and fashioning clothing to keep themselves warm in cool climates. They developed complex hunting techniques, and created great works of art in the form of cave paintings and jewelery.

The archaeological record also shows that during this time, humans began hunting more dangerous prey and more easily exploiting small game like rabbits and birds. They traveled farther than they had before, perhaps due to the growth of long-distance trade routes – the first of their kind. Jared Diamond, author of The Third Chimpanzee, calls this period “The Great Leap Forward,” when humans burst forth culturally – finally separating themselves from their evolutionary cousins.

The exact cause for these changes in human behavior may never be known. Some believe a simple genetic mutation or that the evolution of language could have sparked such a dramatic change. But what we do know now, thanks to this new genetic research, is that like the (much later) invention of agriculture this explosion of innovation was accompanied by population growth.

In the Biblical story of Adam and Eve Our ancestors are warned not to eat of the fruit of the “Etz Hadaath,” the “Tree of Knowledge” for as long as They did not eat of it, they were like angels who do only good. The fruit of the “Tree of Knowledge,” however, changed this.

People interpret this story in different ways but I tend to view it as instructive parable. A primitive species in a natural competitive equilibrium can be thought of as living in a garden. Breaching this equilibrium requires knowledge. Sometime around 70,000 years ago our ancient ancestors acquired the knowledge needed to explosively overcome the constraints that had previously kept our numbers and progress in check. We ceased living as a part of nature and began to dominate it.

This breakthrough led to the spread of humanity throughout the world and possibly made inevitable the later agricultural revolution. Having broken our natural constraints we are now compelled to continue our relentless climb up the tree of knowledge until we grow knowledgable enough to voluntarily establish new ones for ourselves.

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July 21, 2016, 02:31:30 AM
 #2648

Religion is just an excuse to do or dont do things.

Better give it up and think rationally.

I would argue that, by the definition of religion quoted above, since you are not (on the evidence of your post) sessile, you are manifesting a religion.


Illogical. You cannot say that rational thinking is irrational, or that non-religious thinking is a religion.

If you find the consequences of the quoted definition to be absurd, perhaps you should clarify and/or adapt the definition, lest the dissonance overwhelm.

Rational thinking can be irrational, if it is applied outside of its domain.  More importantly, arational and irrational are distinct concepts.  An irrational line of thought is inconsistent with a valid rational line of thought.  In contrast, an arational line of thought is orthogonal to the variational dimensions of reason.  

For that matter, without clarification regarding the criteria of rationality, there will inevitably be possible inconsistent models of rationality.  The postivist cum formalist paradigm is typically treated as the ideal and asymptote of rationality, but there are uncountably many logics, and what is rational in one model may be irrational or arational in another.  

Give a man a fish and he eats for a day.  Give a man a Poisson distribution and he eats at random times independent of one another, at a constant known rate.
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July 21, 2016, 08:39:39 AM
 #2649

We ceased living as a part of nature and began to dominate it.


And it the process we destroy nature, and all our enviroment. Human domination of this planet is really like every monopoly, humans become arrogant and think they are better, and then comes some natural disaster and then everyone starts crying.

Humans cant know their limits, which is both a gift and a curse.

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July 25, 2016, 12:43:25 AM
 #2650


In the Biblical story of Adam and Eve Our ancestors are warned not to eat of the fruit of the “Etz Hadaath,” the “Tree of Knowledge” for as long as They did not eat of it, they were like angels who do only good. The fruit of the “Tree of Knowledge,” however, changed this.

People interpret this story in different ways but I tend to view it as instructive parable. A primitive species in a natural competitive equilibrium can be thought of as living in a garden. Breaching this equilibrium requires knowledge. Sometime around 70,000 years ago our ancient ancestors acquired the knowledge needed to explosively overcome the constraints that had previously kept our numbers and progress in check. We ceased living as a part of nature and began to dominate it.

This breakthrough led to the spread of humanity throughout the world and possibly made inevitable the later agricultural revolution. Having broken our natural constraints we are now compelled to continue our relentless climb up the tree of knowledge until we grow knowledgable enough to voluntarily establish new ones for ourselves.

my 2 cents...

I always thought that, that fruit is nothing else than meat. Humans turning carnivorous was an enabler.
Also it fits with the whole exile from paradise, Man stopped living in nature and lived off it.
Fire was a requirement for eating meat, so the serpent / prometheus myths align.
Better diet and hunting had a positive impact on man intellect.
Also it's a sin that we keep repeating, so Adam's sin was the original (first) not last, explains why we are still cut off from god ( a theological explanation if you like)
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July 25, 2016, 12:48:05 AM
 #2651

Plants are not vegetarians.  They will eat it all.

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July 25, 2016, 01:05:19 AM
 #2652


If you find the consequences of the quoted definition to be absurd, perhaps you should clarify and/or adapt the definition, lest the dissonance overwhelm.

Rational thinking can be irrational, if it is applied outside of its domain.  More importantly, arational and irrational are distinct concepts.  An irrational line of thought is inconsistent with a valid rational line of thought.  In contrast, an arational line of thought is orthogonal to the variational dimensions of reason. 

For that matter, without clarification regarding the criteria of rationality, there will inevitably be possible inconsistent models of rationality.  The postivist cum formalist paradigm is typically treated as the ideal and asymptote of rationality, but there are uncountably many logics, and what is rational in one model may be irrational or arational in another. 


I'm defeated here, your philosophical skills are very good.

Did you considered that rationality is just a human construct derived from human arrogance (to say that humans arrogantly claim that they have figured out how the universe works), what makes rationality a universal truth?

The fact that we can build a working space shuttle because we figured out that 2+2=4, that doesn't mean that rationality from the human perspective is infallible.

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July 25, 2016, 05:16:29 AM
 #2653

I argued that faith provides the best chance of success on this front.

C'mon faith and religion can be both bad and good.

I know personally a dozen people that pray everyday to Jesus to make their lives better, but never really do anything about it, only drink alcohol.

It's only thing to have positive attitude, and have this sort of religious support on your shoulders, but it's another thing to really fix your life independently even if you are in a bad situation.

In the Health and Religion thread I looked at the data on correlations between happiness and religion. Most of the benefit is associated with the highly religious. Being nominally or moderately religious had little benefit.

Praying for divine intervention to passively "make your life better" without actively changing anything is an obvious recipe for failure. Praying for improved self discipline to affect change or for insight into how to change is far more likely to be beneficial.

For the devout and observent religious individual the odds of ending up in a situation where it becomes necessary to "fix your life" is probably much lower.  




I am late to this conversation, but I can offer myself as a example in how religion helped me turn my life around.  Without going into details for now, I took a different path (action) at a bad place, later I found that I had misread Christianity all those years...  I tried again.  Prayer turned things around absolutely for me.

My life, no doubt and beyond question, is much better than before.  In my case, I had to "fix my life" (more correctly stated: allow Him to fix it).  I do not feel that I

It might take either fierce persistence/motivation or (in my case) a new way to look at things to have a similar success.
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July 25, 2016, 02:20:19 PM
 #2654

There are many varieties of religious experience.  Cases where a person is well-schooled in scientific method and in various sciences later comes to embrace views contradictory to reductionist materialism are by no means unknown.  As the default ontology of physics shifts to one of reduction to quantum information, the embrace of theism or other transcendental models is likely to become more common, rather than less: A world of pure information is much more credibly the product of transcendent mind than one made of the 19th century's Newtonian deterministic atoms.

Back to economics, I ran some numbers on the U.S. CPI.  Nominally 1.51% since QE, if I reweight food, fuel, housing and medical to align with medium household income shares, it comes to 3.32%.

Therefore, if anyone tells you the SPX has reached a new high, relative to May 2015, keep in mind that 15 months later a real new high would be over 2223, which has not happened yet.

Give a man a fish and he eats for a day.  Give a man a Poisson distribution and he eats at random times independent of one another, at a constant known rate.
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July 25, 2016, 05:28:48 PM
 #2655

I argued that faith provides the best chance of success on this front.

C'mon faith and religion can be both bad and good.

I know personally a dozen people that pray everyday to Jesus to make their lives better, but never really do anything about it, only drink alcohol.

It's only thing to have positive attitude, and have this sort of religious support on your shoulders, but it's another thing to really fix your life independently even if you are in a bad situation.

In the Health and Religion thread I looked at the data on correlations between happiness and religion. Most of the benefit is associated with the highly religious. Being nominally or moderately religious had little benefit.

Praying for divine intervention to passively "make your life better" without actively changing anything is an obvious recipe for failure. Praying for improved self discipline to affect change or for insight into how to change is far more likely to be beneficial.

For the devout and observent religious individual the odds of ending up in a situation where it becomes necessary to "fix your life" is probably much lower.  




I am late to this conversation, but I can offer myself as a example in how religion helped me turn my life around.  Without going into details for now, I took a different path (action) at a bad place, later I found that I had misread Christianity all those years...  I tried again.  Prayer turned things around absolutely for me.

My life, no doubt and beyond question, is much better than before.  In my case, I had to "fix my life" (more correctly stated: allow Him to fix it).  I do not feel that I

It might take either fierce persistence/motivation or (in my case) a new way to look at things to have a similar success.

I am even later to the conversation, and I do believe that your life is better than it was before, but that does not change the fact that it is based on superstition.  If you don't mind that, OK.

Do you believe that the creator of the universe lounges around all day receiving transmissions from the minds of the faithful? 
CoinCube
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July 25, 2016, 06:44:54 PM
 #2656

I am late to this conversation, but I can offer myself as a example in how religion helped me turn my life around.  Without going into details for now, I took a different path (action) at a bad place, later I found that I had misread Christianity all those years...  I tried again.  Prayer turned things around absolutely for me.

My life, no doubt and beyond question, is much better than before.  In my case, I had to "fix my life" (more correctly stated: allow Him to fix it).  I do not feel that I

It might take either fierce persistence/motivation or (in my case) a new way to look at things to have a similar success.

I am even later to the conversation, and I do believe that your life is better than it was before, but that does not change the fact that it is based on superstition.  If you don't mind that, OK.

Do you believe that the creator of the universe lounges around all day receiving transmissions from the minds of the faithful?  

Perhaps

http://old.explorefaith.org/neighbors/beliefs/nature_j.html
Quote from: Howard Greenstein
To hold that God is the Source and Sustainer of moral values is to insist upon an objective status for ethical ideals. They are not the impulsive fabrication of human minds, but are grounded in the very bedrock of creation. Moral laws have objective validity similar to the laws of physics. They are not our invention, but it is for us to discover them. Just as it would be foolish to defy the law of gravity and hope to escape its consequences, so is it perilous to presume that a human infant can grow to emotional maturity without ever being loved or cared for. In both cases the penalty for ignoring the law is a natural consequence of defying the given realities of the universe. The uniqueness of God in this context is the complex but delicate blend of both physical and spiritual reality in a single deity which accounts for the balance, harmony and order of nature within us and without.

Ethical monotheism is not just a way of talking about God. It is a way of understanding human experience; it is a way of organizing the world in which we live. It is a faith that attempts to explain what we do not know by beginning with what we do know. We do know our awareness of this world is rooted in a unity of our own senses. We do know that defiance of moral law invites a disaster as devastating as any contempt for the laws of physics or chemistry or biology. We know, in short, that we cannot fathom it all and that this world is ultimately grounded in mystery. And that singular ethical mystery is what we call God

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July 25, 2016, 06:49:48 PM
 #2657

The great crisis is near, in fact there is no free lunch.
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July 28, 2016, 07:18:46 AM
 #2658

For CoinCube:

http://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/the-libertarian-economic-theory-that-might-be-secretly-driving-pokemon-go
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July 28, 2016, 10:55:43 PM
 #2659

Zen Buddhism has the idea of centralised balance of the self rather it being a postcard to god like a begging plea, that makes more sense to me

Back to economics, I ran some numbers on the U.S. CPI.  Nominally 1.51% since QE, if I reweight food, fuel, housing and medical to align with medium household income shares, it comes to 3.32%.

Therefore, if anyone tells you the SPX has reached a new high, relative to May 2015, keep in mind that 15 months later a real new high would be over 2223, which has not happened yet.

Yep absolutely, the powers that be are counting on the population underestimating inflation.   The stockmarket will likely keep up with new cash created but the growth over and above is more questionable, thats the evidence of previous booms mirroring large amounts of inflation.    The lesson should be to not hold onto fixed amounts of cash returns, if that is ever realised by the marketplace it means higher rates but we live in a strange world where alot of political influence and non capitalist incentives from China mean rates are not rising.

 The effective market interest rate in large parts of the world is negative even if its not outright stated like in Japan

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|ROULETTE
MINES
TOWERS
DICE
CRASH
──── ─── ─
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July 29, 2016, 11:52:12 AM
 #2660

So that implies that large parts of the world are in debts already, it's just a matter of time before everything comes crashing down. God help us...

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