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TPTB_need_war
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April 22, 2015, 07:43:49 PM
Last edit: April 22, 2015, 10:33:36 PM by TPTB_need_war |
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I would agree if fitness is the only requirement.
but it is not there is also the requirement of efficiency, and for that the only path is growth.
Over the long-term, fitness is the only way to maximize "progress" (a.k.a. "growth"). It doesn't matter if you like it or not, nature's free market will steamroll any attempts to control or order (i.e. top-down control) it. Shrimps have more deggrees of freedom but that will not help them when the whale scoops them.
shrimps have greater degree of freedom but but whales outlive them by far.
Simpleton minds think degrees-of-freedom only applies to 3D spacial movement. Degrees-of-freedom applies to all possible events, including the freedom to think, live long, etc.. That efficiency can only be achieved with growth and scaling up, which of course limits degrees of freedom and can cause extinction events.
Cripes you are still ignorant of the salient point of the opening post of this thread— that the Industrial Age required economies-of-scale because of the high fixed capital component of production (e.g. factories) whereas the Knowledge Age scales decentralized because the most significant cost of production is now the individual's knowledge. Network effects provide the symbiosis scaling in the Knowledge Age, e.g. someone writes some open source which gains enough following and maturity that I can reuse it in a project I am doing and then my open source project gains enough following and maturity that others can reuse... ...The untapped entropy in Reed's law is astronomical. So in the end do you accept that agents are systems that are threatened by internal entropy accumulation or not?
Nonsense. If I don't reply to your nonsense again, let this post serve as a hint as to why I am ignoring you. even with a multitude agents if they do not seek to diversify aka mutate (coincube argument) you still have the entropy of one, numbers do not protect you from monoculture. And if we see the current merits of the silicon valley this is what one observes monoculture.
You don't make any sense because CoinCube's argument is that too much mutation can be unstable, but CoinCube's strawman is inapplicable as I explained. as to networks
a clique has max network effect but 0 entropy
Hey mathematical idiot, go study Reed's law of exponential scaling of network utility. A clique can't scale exponentially dimwit. What dimwit would think a single monoculture (clique) could scale exponentially to be maximally connected to all humans on earth.  I will not feed him by replying further to his off-topic nonsense. He can't seem to grasp that I wasn't writing about monoculture nor any of his nonsense thinking. As if the Silicon Valley reflects the culture of the entire world, or the future global Knowledge Age.  For example, the Hoverbike wasn't Kickstarted in the Silicon Valley. |
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OROBTC
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April 22, 2015, 07:56:34 PM |
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aminorex
I have no confidence in technical analysis. I buy gold and never let it go. Re BTC, I only spend it on Au and twice on platinum.
But I am beginning to warm to Armstrong´s cycles ideas. Thanks mucho to TPTB_n_w (and earlier aka´s...).
Also re Au and BTC, hey I just buy when I have extra $. Especially Au. I don´t even really care about the price of gold, I just stack it.
I may be very near to the amount of BTC I want to HODL. Should I spend BTC on gold, then I typically approximiately replace the BTC I spent.
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thaaanos
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April 22, 2015, 07:58:24 PM |
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even with a multitude agents if they do not seek to diversify aka mutate (coincube argument) you still have the entropy of one, numbers do not protect you from monoculture. And if we see the current merits of the silicon valley this is what one observes monoculture.
as to networks
a clique has max network effect but 0 entropy
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thaaanos
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April 22, 2015, 08:22:01 PM |
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even with a multitude agents if they do not seek to diversify aka mutate (coincube argument) you still have the entropy of one, numbers do not protect you from monoculture. And if we see the current merits of the silicon valley this is what one observes monoculture.
You don't make any sense because CoinCube's argument is that too much mutation can be unstable, but CoinCube's strawman is inapplicable as I explained. if you think it is inapplicable that means you deny mutation in your agents no? then all your agents converge to a local optima (monoculture) so their numbers do not increase entropy. |
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TPTB_need_war
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April 22, 2015, 08:50:54 PM
Last edit: April 22, 2015, 09:36:12 PM by TPTB_need_war |
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I have no confidence in technical analysis.
Ditto. But I am beginning to warm to Armstrong´s cycles ideas.
They incorporate more dimensions of data than near-term TA. I buy gold and never let it go. Re BTC, I only spend it on Au and twice on platinum.
Also re Au and BTC, hey I just buy when I have extra $. Especially Au. I don´t even really care about the price of gold, I just stack it.
I may be very near to the amount of BTC I want to HODL. Should I spend BTC on gold, then I typically approximiately replace the BTC I spent.
The problem is the powers-that-be will shut off our means to exchange our gold for assets and money. They can track our activity on Bitcoin, they are eliminating cash, and they will tighten scrutiny of real estate ownership and transactions. Do you think this is a joke? We are in a 309 year peaking cycle of collectivism. So you will be stuck with all this gold that you can't do a damn thing with, unless you declare it then have it confiscated and taxed to hell. They will paint goldbugs as terrorists. Your gold will be confiscated because it was "involved in drug trade or other illicit activity" and they won't need to prove. The police will just seize it because the government won't be able to pay their salaries. I don't think being in Peru will protect you from that. Maybe but the USA is well aware and planning probably to turn uncooperative States into war zones to complete the looting. Also South Americans are very socialist. Do you really think Martha the Peruvian mother chicken vendor is going to trade you chicken for gold coins or instead cheer the government of Peru hunting down "tax cheats" who are "causing the bad economy". We are heading into a tempest. You should only be stacking things normal people will trade you for and only in quantities that you can reasonably barter. So recognizeable gold coins(, and some 1/10 or 1/5 oz coins too but are you really going to risk trading these with sting operations and muggers lurking?). You best hope is someone creates an anonymous black market where you can still trade your gold for untraceable electronic digits back and forth. But then meetups for physical gold will be busted with sting operations. BurtW was busted by a string. There is a reason the Bible says they will throw their gold and silver into the streets. This is the 666 era and the end of blackmarkets. I am hoping we can avert that with technological innovation, but I tell you other than unverified, vaporware Skycoin and perhaps myself, afaik I don't think anyone seriously capable is really doing anything. Monero et al are sort of half-baked and they haven't finished the job of what needs to be done. I am not extremely optimistic (yet also not giving up and not pessimistic) but hope to dig back into crypto-currency programming soon... P.S. my health is dramatically improving! I feel all my facilities and acumen returning. |
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thaaanos
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April 22, 2015, 10:08:59 PM |
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I still think you have a blind spot regarding the internal entropic state of the agents, you cannot conveniently disregard it, I ll be back with a model, for now http://xkcd.com/386/  Btw the clique has the upper bound on network utility, how can it be otherwise it is maximally connected!!!! |
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OROBTC
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April 22, 2015, 10:55:22 PM |
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... TPTB_n_w I am about as diversified as I can be given our circumstances. I hear you re .gov wanting a crackdown, and The Big Rhino has lots of power... But, a small thing that gives me some comfort is that the "War on Drugs" has not been won. As you point out (and know better than I), there is risk everywhere. Maybe we should buy a condo here in Lima like I have been thinking as a part of "Plan B". * * * Were I a great programmer, I would have written up a great new crypto-cryptocurrency in the last week or two... * * * Although others may be offended, I like your occasional references to the Bible. Indeed, once your soul is saved, all else is very secondary. I have been on the Trail as a Junior Spiritual Practioner after decades of neglect. I still plan to HODL my gold for the benefit of our kid and any grandchildren we may be fortunate to have in the future. * * * And you have that right re your health! Worth more than gold... |
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l3552
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April 22, 2015, 11:46:58 PM |
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CoinCube, did you knew this concept? http://wiki.darwinbots.com/w/Big_BerthaAll the simulation is quite entertaining. TPTB, every evaluation is made down-top. There is no autonomous entity acting without down-top consent or alienation. Firms and political parties are alive and kicking because they allowed the system to scale-up in a way that your beloved higher entropy alone wouldn't. If the people of today consents with lowers degrees is because they can't drag out of it. This system allowed them born and multiply not any other that they know. If you produce any tool that allow this level of value to be maintained you can be sure as hell they will change their minds. As we saw this solution got its momentum over the flaws on information management of prior human society.
1) The reputation tracking problem, a.k.a. the storage problem, justified an increase on investments of force. The fear of the whip granting minimum level of reputation. Flock Economics.
2) The air gaped awareness problem, a.k.a. the circulation problem, justified the commoditization of human awareness, in a way that customer acceptance is not necessary when he have no option nor contacts. Infant Economics.
3) The low aggregation problem, a.k.a. the processing problem, when miserably educated mankind justified the rise of representation in economics by marks and in politics by parties. Electoral Economics
Force, Commoditization and Representation allowed values to escalate and won against the groups of solutions that didn't, turning it on a worldwide practice. Not by conspiracy every major country acts by these methods... They were great solutions for a world defined by the lack of pen, paper and horsepower. If the environment changed this it doesn't mean we have to go all the way back to anarchical technological tribalism it only means that we have to review what were the problems solved by the last system, the problems we face now and think about new solutions. With rep tracking, there is no need for the use of force; with instant communication, there is no need to oversimplify human evaluation; with broadly education, there is no need for permanent eunuch dinosaurs institutions aka “over commitment to egregious error”. But again. If your solution, or any other, can't maintain the present levels of wealthy nor solve the previous problems human society already fought to scale-up you can be sure as hell they will do more of the same because it is what they can do without enough mind dragging power. MORE FORCE FOR MORE REPUTATION UNTIL WAR IS PEACE. MORE COMMODITIZATION RESTRICTIONS ON YOUR MONEY SUPPLY AND PROPRIETY UNTIL YOU DO NOT HAVE CHOICES. MORE REPRESENTATION UNTIL FREE SPEECH IS FINALLY OUTLAWED AND EVERY HUMAN BEING IS PERMANENTLY ON NARCOTICS(OR EVEN WORSE SOLUTIONS). We need to go up on this discussion. Far above the passions for control and alienation of the present system. Then clean ourselves of the scars left by it, like your fear of losing control that serves only the masked hidden on you, running away from the light as deep as it can, boiling your roots and burning your leaves. (D3 helping you out, why?). After cleanse we build the intellectual solution and then produce drag power sufficiently to stop the “over commitment to egregious error”. This is how I think. |
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TPTB_need_war
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April 23, 2015, 12:07:35 AM |
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They will destroy themselves. No problem. Let them.
Those of us who are capable will side-step their system with a decentralized knowledge age.
This is evolution at work. Survival-of-the-fittest. The weak will cull themselves.
I already told you upthread that reputation is alive and well on pseudonyms along with personal anonymity. Have I not proved that? I have a reputation and I would still have one if I had never revealed my personal identity.
Enough of the redundant crap please.
I am waiting for CoinCube to come back and admit I am correct on all points.
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l3552
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April 23, 2015, 12:29:11 AM |
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We are working bodies of 37 trillions cells working harmoniously. We are part of a global society of 6 billion human beings working as harmoniously as possible until now. Like it or not, you are part of it and you are not in control of it. Yet you act like the white cells are your enemies. It is so clear. You could be a major part of the nervous system of the human society but you prefer to act like a papilloma growing from it and then falling to infect others on the east! They will destroy themselves. No problem. Let them.
Those of us who are capable will side-step their system with a decentralized knowledge age.
This is evolution at work. Survival-of-the-fittest. The weak will cull themselves.
I already told you upthread that reputation is alive and well on pseudonyms along with personal anonymity. Have I not proved that? I have a reputation and I would still have one if I had never revealed my personal identity.
Enough of the redundant crap please.
I am waiting for CoinCube to come back and admit I am correct on all points.
You have never proved anything about this because you don't even know what reputation mean! I am sure none here would ever freely trade wealthy, and not tips, and share values, and not masks, with someone you know nothing nor answer to the same lord. |
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OROBTC
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April 23, 2015, 02:54:21 AM |
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TPTB
Yes of course the USG is importing drugs big time. That is well known as well as well documented. Still, The Big Rhino has not stamped out the competition... Yet. But, yes, I hear you. .gov control is increasing constantly. Still, those who prepare well (I hope I have/will) will come out the other side OK. Probably...
* * *
The more curious case of the Bush property in Paraguay is one that I have seen next to NOTHING on that since 2010 or so. Not even in the hysterical Argentine press. The two links you cited were from 2006 and 2010. I have also seen the allegations that their property is next to a BIG Moonie ranch.
I looked for more info about a year ago on the Bush property in Paraguay and found zip. In fact, I have seen NOTHING reliable (a link to a deed, a solid source, etc.) showing that the Bushes own ANYTHING like the 98,000 acres purportedly owned. I just ran a Google search, and *yawn*, same old crap, nothing solid, just Bush-haters.
I do know WHY there would be interest: the world's largest fresh water aquifer. Few people around. And a local .gov easy to suborn.
And if they have the money, why not? Paraguay is a great lil ol place to retire to (I've been there).
Were I rich enough (and wife willing, ahh..., not so much) I would love owning 20,000 acres in the eastern Chaco as long as there was a decent road connection. The Eastern Chaco of Paraguay apparently is the CHEAPEST BIOMASS on the planet. And lots of sun for off-the-grid power.
Not much social life though, LOL...
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Chabacano
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April 23, 2015, 03:12:10 AM |
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didnt know about that, thank you for your post, wow didnt know about that, thank you for your post, but I think that drugs should be legal and that could fix the problem |
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coinits
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April 23, 2015, 03:14:28 AM |
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TPTB
Yes of course the USG is importing drugs big time. That is well known as well as well documented. Still, The Big Rhino has not stamped out the competition... Yet. But, yes, I hear you. .gov control is increasing constantly. Still, those who prepare well (I hope I have/will) will come out the other side OK. Probably...
* * *
The more curious case of the Bush property in Paraguay is one that I have seen next to NOTHING on that since 2010 or so. Not even in the hysterical Argentine press. The two links you cited were from 2006 and 2010. I have also seen the allegations that their property is next to a BIG Moonie ranch.
I looked for more info about a year ago on the Bush property in Paraguay and found zip. In fact, I have seen NOTHING reliable (a link to a deed, a solid source, etc.) showing that the Bushes own ANYTHING like the 98,000 acres purportedly owned. I just ran a Google search, and *yawn*, same old crap, nothing solid, just Bush-haters.
I do know WHY there would be interest: the world's largest fresh water aquifer. Few people around. And a local .gov easy to suborn.
And if they have the money, why not? Paraguay is a great lil ol place to retire to (I've been there).
Were I rich enough (and wife willing, ahh..., not so much) I would love owning 20,000 acres in the eastern Chaco as long as there was a decent road connection. The Eastern Chaco of Paraguay apparently is the CHEAPEST BIOMASS on the planet. And lots of sun for off-the-grid power.
Not much social life though, LOL...
Well why do you think that poppy production has gone up exponentially since the USA invaded Afghanistan? http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/13/world/asia/afghan-elections-cited-as-factor-in-record-levels-of-opium-production.html?_r=0http://cnsnews.com/sites/default/files/images/AfghanOpium2014-1.jpgNote the low levels in 2001. That was Taliban rule. Convenient excuse to raid after 9/11 huh? The US Government are the largest drug dealers and smugglers on the planet. |
Jump you fuckers! | The thing about smart motherfuckers is they sound like crazy motherfuckers to dumb motherfuckers. | My sig space for rent for 0.01 btc per week.
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CoinCube (OP)
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April 23, 2015, 03:23:29 AM |
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Nope you learn something new every day. At first glance it looks like they have not programmed in either optimal foraging theory or the risk of severe injury or death (that even stronger animals face) when they engage in physical violence into their simulation yet. |
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OROBTC
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April 23, 2015, 03:29:23 AM |
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... Don't get me wrong, fellas! I know that the USA .gov is up to its eyeballs in drug-running, and has been for a long time. And it looks like since Clinton the drug running has become much more wholesale. And this kind of mega-corruption is typically seen in the more "Collectivist" systems.My point re the "Drug Wars" is that .gov is NOT omnipotent. Yes, they are listening much more. Yes, if you drop by Lima (where I am now) to pick up a kilo, do expect to a Secondary Check at Customs upon return (hey, you are competing...). But, if any of you have talked with most everyday Feds (Post Office, TSA, do I REALLY need to list more?) you will find that they are not the sharpest knives in the drawer. There are LOTS of below average Fed-types. And there are lots more, well, rednecks/patriots/whatever you want to call us than there are of "them". The military? A Big Unknown. Armstrong might have a useful comment re the US military... My *guess* re the dangers of a dictatorship are yes it could happen, may be very bloody, but would be UNSTABLE and then fall..., for many reasons, which TPTB actually discusses much better than I can. * * * But, tell me more about cheap biomass in Paraguay, nice and warm there and all...  |
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coinits
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April 23, 2015, 03:30:22 AM |
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... Don't get me wrong, fellas! I know that the USA .gov is up to its eyeballs in drug-running, and has been for a long time. And it looks like since Clinton the drug running has become much more wholesale. And this kind of mega-corruption is typically seen in the more "Collectivist" systems.My point re the "Drug Wars" is that .gov is NOT omnipotent. Yes, they are listening much more. Yes, if you drop by Lima (where I am now) to pick up a kilo, do expect to a Secondary Check at Customs upon return (hey, you are competing...). But, if any of you have talked with most everyday Feds (Post Office, TSA, do I REALLY need to list more?) you will find that they are not the sharpest knives in the drawer. There are LOTS of below average Fed-types. And there are lots more, well, rednecks/patriots/whatever yoy want to call us than there are of "them". The military? A Big Unknown. Armstrong might have a useful comment re the US military... My *guess* re the dangers of a dictatorship are yes it could happen, may be very bloody, but would be UNSTABLE and then fall..., for many reasons, which TPTB actually discusses much better than I can. * * * But, tell me more about cheap biomass in Paraguay, nice and warm there and all... You know about Bill's cocaine cartel while Governor right? |
Jump you fuckers! | The thing about smart motherfuckers is they sound like crazy motherfuckers to dumb motherfuckers. | My sig space for rent for 0.01 btc per week.
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CoinCube (OP)
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April 23, 2015, 03:32:18 AM
Last edit: April 26, 2015, 09:24:49 AM by CoinCube |
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I am waiting for CoinCube to come back and admit I am correct on all points.
Haha and just what probability have you assigned to this actually happening.  In the interests of being a good sport, however, I will restrain myself and only quote the recent points that I do believe are correct on all counts. The ability to top-down control others is mathematically coupled to the ability to top-down create error!
We have no means of knowing which of smorgasbord plurality of autonomous actions being done today are providing fitness.
The danger is because the top-down systems over commit to the aggregate error in a self-reinforcing spiral that will kill the host.
error often manifests itself in terms of exhausting resources.
top-down controlled systems (such as collectivized governance) remove degrees-of-freedom—that is have lower entropy
there is also the requirement of efficiency, and for that the only path is growth.
efficiency can only be achieved with growth and scaling up, which of course limits degrees of freedom and can cause extinction events.
growth and therefore limit in DofF is needed to cope to the internal entropy accumulation
a limit in Degrees of freedom cannot be escaped for living systems
We are working bodies of 37 trillions cells working harmoniously. We are part of a global society of 6 billion human beings working as harmoniously as possible
If the environment changed this it doesn't mean we have to go all the way back to anarchical technological tribalism it only means that we have to review what were the problems solved by the last system, the problems we face now and think about new solutions.
We need to go up on this discussion. Far above the passions for control and alienation of the present system.
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CoinCube (OP)
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April 23, 2015, 03:35:49 AM |
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I would love owning 20,000 acres in the eastern Chaco as long as there was a decent road connection. The Eastern Chaco of Paraguay apparently is the CHEAPEST BIOMASS on the planet. And lots of sun for off-the-grid power.
How much is 20,000 acres in eastern Chaco going for these days? |
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