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[TwitchySeal]

Coming to BETCOIN POKER, ACR and the WPN!!!!

We’re bringing HUGE tournament poker action back with the Online Super Series V!...

Be sure Betcoin software is updated and will be compatible with WPN for this series.  

If you forget about it this time it would be fourth time in 4 months that Betcoin Players (only betcoin) couldn't see table or cards for the first 45-60 minutes of the tournament.

If you do forget, I probably won't be there to help this time (banned): https://www.betcoin.ag/how-fix-sundaty-million
(By the way, I think you forgot to "make things right" like you promised during the chaos on Aug 2nd )

[Junko]

Coming to BETCOIN POKER, ACR and the WPN!!!!

We’re bringing HUGE tournament poker action back with the Online Super Series V!  With bigger prize pools and even more added tournaments from November 27th to December 6th, this series is one you won’t want to miss! This 10 days of jam packed excitement leads up to the currently 3,000 BTC ($1,000,000) Guaranteed prize pool Main Event on December 6th at 5pm EST!

The OSS V offers something for every type of poker player.  The series will hold diverse game types including Texas Holdem, Pot-Limit Omaha and PLO8 games with re-buy and re-entry structures along with an assortment of buyins.

With 76 tournaments and over currently 7,800 BTC ($2.6 million) in prize pools the OSS V is bound to have a number of events to fit your needs!!  We wish everyone the best of luck!

Oh man, this is awesome. When I first saw the OSS on another site a while back, I thought that I was going to have to make a new account on ACR including going through the verification process which I didn't really want to do in order to take part in it because I hadn't seen Betcoin.ag mention anything about it until now. But now that I see you guys are in on it, I don't have to make another WPN account. I can just take part in it from betcoin using bitcoin. Nice.

[Pimpmycoin]

Pimpmycoin and everyone, we certainly will take everyone's feedback into account when deciding whether or not to host another 10 btc freeroll.  We had over 900 registered entrants in the last 10 btc freeroll and receive several requests daily to have another 10 btc freeroll and inquiries from companies wanting to co-sponsor a 10 btc freeroll.  We know most players appreciate the opportunity, hence over 900 register for the tournament, but we have a lot to assess when deciding whether or not have another 10 btc freeroll.  We would actually like to host them regularly and will certainly keep you informed. 

i have played on betcoin for some time,


i have only positive feedback, i made some cash out without problem


and about the freeroll i have only to say tnx for this free opportunity

[TwitchySeal]

Pimpmycoin and everyone, we certainly will take everyone's feedback into account when deciding whether or not to host another 10 btc freeroll.  We had over 900 registered entrants in the last 10 btc freeroll and receive several requests daily to have another 10 btc freeroll and inquiries from companies wanting to co-sponsor a 10 btc freeroll.  We know most players appreciate the opportunity, hence over 900 register for the tournament, but we have a lot to assess when deciding whether or not have another 10 btc freeroll.  We would actually like to host them regularly and will certainly keep you informed. 

Oh man, this is awesome. When I first saw the OSS on another site a while back, I thought that I was going to have to make a new account on ACR including going through the verification process which I didn't really want to do in order to take part in it because I hadn't seen Betcoin.ag mention anything about it until now. But now that I see you guys are in on it, I don't have to make another WPN account. I can just take part in it from betcoin using bitcoin. Nice.

i have played on betcoin for some time,


i have only positive feedback, i made some cash out without problem


and about the freeroll i have only to say tnx for this free opportunity

How do you feel about the issues which have been brought up over the past several pages of this thread?

Did you read them?

Do you not believe they happened?  Or do you think it's acceptable?


Not trying to attack you, just not understanding how or why so many are choosing to endorse Betcoin because they they don't have issues with withdraws/offer WPN tourneys/have low rake etc...while acting as if none of the problems within the thread even exist.  If you don't believe me, or think theyre no big deal I would understand, but why not say so?  If you want to do some good for Betcoin, prove I'm wrong.

[Betcoin.AG]

Coming to BETCOIN POKER, ACR and the WPN!!!!

We’re bringing HUGE tournament poker action back with the Online Super Series V!  With bigger prize pools and even more added tournaments from November 27th to December 6th, this series is one you won’t want to miss! This 10 days of jam packed excitement leads up to the currently 3,000 BTC ($1,000,000) Guaranteed prize pool Main Event on December 6th at 5pm EST!

The OSS V offers something for every type of poker player.  The series will hold diverse game types including Texas Holdem, Pot-Limit Omaha and PLO8 games with re-buy and re-entry structures along with an assortment of buyins.

With 76 tournaments and over currently 7,800 BTC ($2.6 million) in prize pools the OSS V is bound to have a number of events to fit your needs!!  We wish everyone the best of luck!

Oh man, this is awesome. When I first saw the OSS on another site a while back, I thought that I was going to have to make a new account on ACR including going through the verification process which I didn't really want to do in order to take part in it because I hadn't seen Betcoin.ag mention anything about it until now. But now that I see you guys are in on it, I don't have to make another WPN account. I can just take part in it from betcoin using bitcoin. Nice.

Junko, this is a very popular series at Betcoin Poker, ACR and the entire WPN and we have it here for you.  Good luck and report back how you do here in the forum and the forum at Betcoin.ag.  We will soon have a leaderboard tracking all of your stats!

[Betcoin.AG]

Pimpmycoin and everyone, we certainly will take everyone's feedback into account when deciding whether or not to host another 10 btc freeroll.  We had over 900 registered entrants in the last 10 btc freeroll and receive several requests daily to have another 10 btc freeroll and inquiries from companies wanting to co-sponsor a 10 btc freeroll.  We know most players appreciate the opportunity, hence over 900 register for the tournament, but we have a lot to assess when deciding whether or not have another 10 btc freeroll.  We would actually like to host them regularly and will certainly keep you informed. 

i have played on betcoin for some time,


i have only positive feedback, i made some cash out without problem


and about the freeroll i have only to say tnx for this free opportunity

Pimpmycoin thank you for taking the time to provide your feedback.  Congratulations on your finish in the tournament and we plan on hosting another big freeroll soon to thank our many players for their support.  Please take a look at the OSS series coming to Betcoin Poker, ACR and the WPN and know that we are here for you anytime!

[Betcoin.AG]

Huge lineup of tournaments all day at Betcoin Poker!  Earn your btc with freerolls, GTD Tourneys, Sng's and much more!  Good luck everyone.

[bitcoinnoisseur]

Pimpmycoin and everyone, we certainly will take everyone's feedback into account when deciding whether or not to host another 10 btc freeroll.  We had over 900 registered entrants in the last 10 btc freeroll and receive several requests daily to have another 10 btc freeroll and inquiries from companies wanting to co-sponsor a 10 btc freeroll.  We know most players appreciate the opportunity, hence over 900 register for the tournament, but we have a lot to assess when deciding whether or not have another 10 btc freeroll.  We would actually like to host them regularly and will certainly keep you informed. 

i have played on betcoin for some time,


i have only positive feedback, i made some cash out without problem


and about the freeroll i have only to say tnx for this free opportunity

Pimpmycoin thank you for taking the time to provide your feedback.  Congratulations on your finish in the tournament and we plan on hosting another big freeroll soon to thank our many players for their support.  Please take a look at the OSS series coming to Betcoin Poker, ACR and the WPN and know that we are here for you anytime!

That's it Betcoin, keep ignoring all the real problems and real feedback here and keep coddling all the ignorant and greedy few that are sucking up to you hoping for a free handout. Betcoin is like a small child playing peekaboo. If Betcoin closes their eyes and ignores all the real problems then the problems don't exist.

[Junko]

Pimpmycoin and everyone, we certainly will take everyone's feedback into account when deciding whether or not to host another 10 btc freeroll.  We had over 900 registered entrants in the last 10 btc freeroll and receive several requests daily to have another 10 btc freeroll and inquiries from companies wanting to co-sponsor a 10 btc freeroll.  We know most players appreciate the opportunity, hence over 900 register for the tournament, but we have a lot to assess when deciding whether or not have another 10 btc freeroll.  We would actually like to host them regularly and will certainly keep you informed.  

Oh man, this is awesome. When I first saw the OSS on another site a while back, I thought that I was going to have to make a new account on ACR including going through the verification process which I didn't really want to do in order to take part in it because I hadn't seen Betcoin.ag mention anything about it until now. But now that I see you guys are in on it, I don't have to make another WPN account. I can just take part in it from betcoin using bitcoin. Nice.

i have played on betcoin for some time,


i have only positive feedback, i made some cash out without problem


and about the freeroll i have only to say tnx for this free opportunity

How do you feel about the issues which have been brought up over the past several pages of this thread?

Did you read them?

Do you not believe they happened?  Or do you think it's acceptable?


Not trying to attack you, just not understanding how or why so many are choosing to endorse Betcoin because they they don't have issues with withdraws/offer WPN tourneys/have low rake etc...while acting as if none of the problems within the thread even exist.  If you don't believe me, or think theyre no big deal I would understand, but why not say so?  If you want to do some good for Betcoin, prove I'm wrong.

Since your beef seemed directed at Betcoin, I purposefully stayed out of it all since I'm sure Betcoin is capable of fighting its own battles in their own way. That and I didn't want to directly muck up your course of action by posting comments which might be taken as trolling. But since you appear to be calling me out by quoting me, I'll go ahead and bite. (Not in the mood to do anything else right now since my Dallas Cowboys lost ugly today.)


How do you feel about the issues which have been brought up over the past several pages of this thread?

I do think pretty much all of the issues you and others have brought up are very valid. It's no joke anytime reputations, integrity and money is involved/at stake.


Did you read them?

Yes.

From the no collusion freeroll, a cheater getting a second chance, BBJP funding, missing status points, ddos cheaters, noncompensations for funds lost due to cheaters, the wpn satty points issue, let's see, what else, deleted posts/threads on the betcoin.ag community forums, shill posts in the community forum and here on bitcointalk, how all these issues have been handled by support via tickets, support chat, community chat, community forum threads/posts.

There may be more so forgive me if I'm missing anything else.

Now correct me if I'm wrong, but from what I gather, you don't have a problem as much with the actual mistakes made, but moreso with how they are/were handled by betcoin staff,  reps and support. At least that's what I remember reading in some of your posts.


Do you not believe they happened?  Or do you think it's acceptable?

I do believe the issues you brought up occurred. The initial mistakes themselves, I can accept. How these initial mistakes were subsequently handled, I do find somewhat dubious in some aspects. So I would lean towards the way some things were handled as being unacceptable.  In other cases, without going into detail, I have no opinion either way.

However, just because I do find the way some things were handled to be on the unacceptable side, it doesn't mean that going forward that these blemeshies can't be learned from, improved upon, remedied and taken care of with a more positive resolution for all those concerned if and when other similar or nonsimilar issues crop up in the future. That's how I reconcile my continued play at Betcoin.ag aside from all the positive things that they offer their players.


Not trying to attack you, just not understanding how or why so many are choosing to endorse Betcoin because they they don't have issues with withdraws/offer WPN tourneys/have low rake etc...while acting as if none of the problems within the thread even exist.  If you don't believe me, or think theyre no big deal I would understand, but why not say so?  If you want to do some good for Betcoin, prove I'm wrong.

How and why I am I choosing to endorse Betcoin other than because of all the pros and in light of the issues you bring up? I'll repeat what I just wrote above: However, just because I do find the way some things were handled to be on the unacceptable side, it doesn't mean that going forward that these blemeshies can't be learned from, improved upon, remedied and taken care of with a more positive resolution for all those concerned if and when other similar or nonsimilar issues crop up in the future. That's how I reconcile my continued play at Betcoin.ag aside from all the positive things that they offer their players.

Form whatever judgments and opinions of me for continuing to give Betcoin my action as you wish, anyone is certainly entitled and welcome to do so.

As far as proving you wrong, I feel no compelling need or desire whatsoever to do so. If your intentions with this whole endeavor are genuinely in the name of helping out the poker community and not because you are butthurt, then more power to you. If your crusade helps those for whom the issues you bring up about Betcoin are a dealbreaker as far as choosing a poker site where they will be happy, then good on ya too. Respect.

[DarkDays]

How do you feel about the issues which have been brought up over the past several pages of this thread?

Did you read them?

Do you not believe they happened?  Or do you think it's acceptable?


Not trying to attack you, just not understanding how or why so many are choosing to endorse Betcoin because they they don't have issues with withdraws/offer WPN tourneys/have low rake etc...while acting as if none of the problems within the thread even exist.  If you don't believe me, or think theyre no big deal I would understand, but why not say so?  If you want to do some good for Betcoin, prove I'm wrong.

Most people on Betcoin aren't poker players, they are bitcoin fans looks for free shit.  The problems don't affect them because they don't care about a fair environment or competent support...they just want free pennies!  And they view people like you and I, who complain about the myriad of problems Betcoin has that are retarding their growth, as potential roadblocks to their free pennies.  Betcoin, of course, is facilitating that.  Look at how they ignore the questions raised...they say "oh gee looks like SOME PEOPLE aren't happy, guess we may have to stop giving people free shit" and all of the freerollers lose their shit in broken english.  Of course all of this buries the valid questions that are raised (which Betcoin still has yet to answer or even address).

Just look at "pimp".  ZERO WPN MTTs played.  This means that he's only there to play freerolls.  Or that he's multiaccounting.  Either way, these are the types of players that Betcoin caters to...the people who give them zero action.  Because it's the easy way out, far easier than admitting to their mistakes and trying to fix them.  It's the most insane backwards business strategy I've ever seen and only further my suspicion that Betcoin is run, at least on a day-to-day bases, by people who legit don't know what they are doing.

[cjmoles]

The way Betcoin dealt with my missing rakeback and status points was the hair that broke the camels back for me.

Interesting post (all of it!), and it rings true with what I've seen of how they operate.

From DarkDays' post, it seems like the simple answer is that they pay you rakeback only on the share of the rake that they receive, and with the network games that's not the same as the amount you pay.

The obvious solution to this is to make that information public. Currently the VIP page simply says:

Tournaments / Sit & Gos

1 CHIP FEE = 5 Status Points

Entry Fee   Status Points Earned
0 Chip Fee (freeroll)   0
0.1 Chip Fee   0.5
1 Chip Fee   5
10 Chip Fee   50

It doesn't say that if you play on the network games you only get half of that amount.

I expect there's a similar unwritten rule about not getting status points if you take the table-starter bonus, which is why I didn't get paid for that session I played.

Part of the confusion, and the part that's hardest to explain, is that the WPN operates in US dollars.  When we deposits bitcoin into the main WPN skins, it is immediately converted to US dollars and the value remains stable.  But, when we  deposit at Betcoin, our deposits remain bitcoin and the value fluctuates with the US dollar.  So, it is difficult to pin a specific value on the rake back because it will fluctuate with the price of bitcoin.  The confusion is caused by the differences in the two markets and how the two markets try to compensate for Bitcoin's volatility.

I say that it's only part of the confusion because the other part is that Betcoin also offers a higher rake back on there "in house" games than the WPN provides for their network games.  I suspect that Bitcoins volatility, along with the differing rake back programs, is the reason why we can't play in the network cash games from Betcoin anymore.  It's just too complicated to state simply.

[TwitchySeal]

The way Betcoin dealt with my missing rakeback and status points was the hair that broke the camels back for me.

Interesting post (all of it!), and it rings true with what I've seen of how they operate.

From DarkDays' post, it seems like the simple answer is that they pay you rakeback only on the share of the rake that they receive, and with the network games that's not the same as the amount you pay.

The obvious solution to this is to make that information public. Currently the VIP page simply says:

Tournaments / Sit & Gos

1 CHIP FEE = 5 Status Points

Entry Fee   Status Points Earned
0 Chip Fee (freeroll)   0
0.1 Chip Fee   0.5
1 Chip Fee   5
10 Chip Fee   50

It doesn't say that if you play on the network games you only get half of that amount.

I expect there's a similar unwritten rule about not getting status points if you take the table-starter bonus, which is why I didn't get paid for that session I played.

Part of the confusion, and the part that's hardest to explain, is that the WPN operates in US dollars.  When we deposits bitcoin into the main WPN skins, it is immediately converted to US dollars and the value remains stable.  But, when we  deposit at Betcoin, our deposits remain bitcoin and the value fluctuates with the US dollar.  So, it is difficult to pin a specific value on the rake back because it will fluctuate with the price of bitcoin.  The confusion is caused by the differences in the two markets and how the two markets try to compensate for Bitcoin's volatility.

I say that it's only part of the confusion because the other part is that Betcoin also offers a higher rake back on there "in house" games than the WPN provides for their network games.  I suspect that Bitcoins volatility, along with the differing rake back programs, is the reason why we can't play in the network cash games from Betcoin anymore.  It's just too complicated to state simply.

Other than the table starter promotion which affects at most two players per table at Betcoin Cash games, they offer the same rake back at all games.  There are no "different rake back programs".  (unless they introduced something very recently)

When you register for a WPN tournament (which are in USD), you get a pop up letting you know how many chips (mbtcs) you will be charged before confirming.

Most of the confusion would not exist if Betcoin were to keep a financial history for tournaments played and make it available to both players and support.  I suspect that even support doesn't have access to the WPN tournament history of any individual player.  This is why it's so difficult to prove they are under paying their rakeback, especially for players who have comp points coming to them for other reasons (non WPN mtts) - it took me months before I was 100% sure I was being underpaid. 

This is also why its so wrong of them to use this kind of logic on a player who believes they have been underpaid:

We have many players that play regularly now and if it wasn't accurate, you would hear from them all.

[TwitchySeal]

Pimpmycoin and everyone, we certainly will take everyone's feedback into account when deciding whether or not to host another 10 btc freeroll.  We had over 900 registered entrants in the last 10 btc freeroll and receive several requests daily to have another 10 btc freeroll and inquiries from companies wanting to co-sponsor a 10 btc freeroll.  We know most players appreciate the opportunity, hence over 900 register for the tournament, but we have a lot to assess when deciding whether or not have another 10 btc freeroll.  We would actually like to host them regularly and will certainly keep you informed. 

Oh man, this is awesome. When I first saw the OSS on another site a while back, I thought that I was going to have to make a new account on ACR including going through the verification process which I didn't really want to do in order to take part in it because I hadn't seen Betcoin.ag mention anything about it until now. But now that I see you guys are in on it, I don't have to make another WPN account. I can just take part in it from betcoin using bitcoin. Nice.

i have played on betcoin for some time,


i have only positive feedback, i made some cash out without problem


and about the freeroll i have only to say tnx for this free opportunity

How do you feel about the issues which have been brought up over the past several pages of this thread?

Did you read them?

Do you not believe they happened?  Or do you think it's acceptable?


Not trying to attack you, just not understanding how or why so many are choosing to endorse Betcoin because they they don't have issues with withdraws/offer WPN tourneys/have low rake etc...while acting as if none of the problems within the thread even exist.  If you don't believe me, or think theyre no big deal I would understand, but why not say so?  If you want to do some good for Betcoin, prove I'm wrong.

Since your beef seemed directed at Betcoin, I purposefully stayed out of it all since I'm sure Betcoin is capable of fighting its own battles in their own way. That and I didn't want to directly muck up your course of action by posting comments which might be taken as trolling. But since you appear to be calling me out by quoting me, I'll go ahead and bite. (Not in the mood to do anything else right now since my Dallas Cowboys lost ugly today.)


How do you feel about the issues which have been brought up over the past several pages of this thread?

I do think pretty much all of the issues you and others have brought up are very valid. It's no joke anytime reputations, integrity and money is involved/at stake.


Did you read them?

Yes.

From the no collusion freeroll, a cheater getting a second chance, BBJP funding, missing status points, ddos cheaters, noncompensations for funds lost due to cheaters, the wpn satty points issue, let's see, what else, deleted posts/threads on the betcoin.ag community forums, shill posts in the community forum and here on bitcointalk, how all these issues have been handled by support via tickets, support chat, community chat, community forum threads/posts.

There may be more so forgive me if I'm missing anything else.

Now correct me if I'm wrong, but from what I gather, you don't have a problem as much with the actual mistakes made, but moreso with how they are/were handled by betcoin staff,  reps and support. At least that's what I remember reading in some of your posts.


Do you not believe they happened?  Or do you think it's acceptable?

I do believe the issues you brought up occurred. The initial mistakes themselves, I can accept. How these initial mistakes were subsequently handled, I do find somewhat dubious in some aspects. So I would lean towards the way some things were handled as being unacceptable.  In other cases, without going into detail, I have no opinion either way.

However, just because I do find the way some things were handled to be on the unacceptable side, it doesn't mean that going forward that these blemeshies can't be learned from, improved upon, remedied and taken care of with a more positive resolution for all those concerned if and when other similar or nonsimilar issues crop up in the future. That's how I reconcile my continued play at Betcoin.ag aside from all the positive things that they offer their players.


Not trying to attack you, just not understanding how or why so many are choosing to endorse Betcoin because they they don't have issues with withdraws/offer WPN tourneys/have low rake etc...while acting as if none of the problems within the thread even exist.  If you don't believe me, or think theyre no big deal I would understand, but why not say so?  If you want to do some good for Betcoin, prove I'm wrong.

How and why I am I choosing to endorse Betcoin other than because of all the pros and in light of the issues you bring up? I'll repeat what I just wrote above: However, just because I do find the way some things were handled to be on the unacceptable side, it doesn't mean that going forward that these blemeshies can't be learned from, improved upon, remedied and taken care of with a more positive resolution for all those concerned if and when other similar or nonsimilar issues crop up in the future. That's how I reconcile my continued play at Betcoin.ag aside from all the positive things that they offer their players.

Form whatever judgments and opinions of me for continuing to give Betcoin my action as you wish, anyone is certainly entitled and welcome to do so.

As far as proving you wrong, I feel no compelling need or desire whatsoever to do so. If your intentions with this whole endeavor are genuinely in the name of helping out the poker community and not because you are butthurt, then more power to you. If your crusade helps those for whom the issues you bring up about Betcoin are a dealbreaker as far as choosing a poker site where they will be happy, then good on ya too. Respect.

Junko I really do appreciate you taking the time to respond to everything.

I also don't blame you for thinking I might just be butthurt and seeking revenge (or something else).  I would too.  To be honest, I am pissed at them on a personal level, I feel they do owe ME money and they have also lied to ME after gaining my trust and since then been extremely disrespectful to ME.  They also have lied to others about ME.

With that being said, I'm putting a great deal of thought into keeping my posts as objective as possible, fully transparent and focusing only on what I can prove.  I realize I'm not successful 100% of the time.

Most other sites have a formal dispute process and are willing to involve a impartial third party, that would make this much easier - but it's not an option.

I want to address one of your thoughts:

However, just because I do find the way some things were handled to be on the unacceptable side, it doesn't mean that going forward that these blemeshies can't be learned from, improved upon, remedied and taken care of with a more positive resolution for all those concerned if and when other similar or nonsimilar issues crop up in the future. That's how I reconcile my continued play at Betcoin.ag aside from all the positive things that they offer their players.

I agree with what you are literally saying here, we should always s be looking for a way to resolve conflict in as positive a way as possible and learn from our mistakes.

But it seems that you are implying that I am preventing this from happening. 

Betcoin has demonstrated a pattern of dishonest, unethical behavior over a significant period of time.  They have made no indication that they plan on handling things differently in the future. They have yet to admit to anything I've accused them of.  The only time they attempted to deny was with a reply which I proved to be a blatant lie. 

By making posts endorsing them or thanking them for their services tells Betcoin that you think what they're doing is OK.  It also tells other similar businesses (which you may use already or in the future) that behaving like they have is OK.

If Betcoin were willing to admit their mistakes and learn from them, I would be rooting for them to succeed as much as anyone.  (I was rooting for them, even during and after many of these issues happened)

 

[cjmoles]

Other than the table starter promotion which affects at most two players per table at Betcoin Cash games, they offer the same rake back at all games.  There are no "different rake back programs".  (unless they introduced something very recently)

When you register for a WPN tournament (which are in USD), you get a pop up letting you know how many chips (mbtcs) you will be charged before confirming.

Most of the confusion would not exist if Betcoin were to keep a financial history for tournaments played and make it available to both players and support.  I suspect that even support doesn't have access to the WPN tournament history of any individual player.  This is why it's so difficult to prove they are under paying their rakeback, especially for players who have comp points coming to them for other reasons (non WPN mtts) - it took me months before I was 100% sure I was being underpaid. 

This is also why its so wrong of them to use this kind of logic on a player who believes they have been underpaid:

We have many players that play regularly now and if it wasn't accurate, you would hear from them all.
I AGREE...THIS IS BAD LOGIC.

I also agree that we should be provided a history of our game play, so that we can keep accurate records within the platform.

Well, my rake back at ACR and BCP is 17% and that's USD, but my rake back at Betcoin is still only 10% (it changes according to VIP level but it doesn't at ACR or BCP) and that's bitcoin.  

But, say for example, I played the $500 + $40 tourney at Betcoin, but when I bought in, bitcoin was worth $400.  Then, when the tournament ended 12 hours later, bitcoins value had dropped back down to $250.  Where would the value of my rake back be pegged?  While at the same time, if I bought in at ACR (not really possible) for the same amount, my rake back would still be pegged at the original buy-in value.  See where the confusion lies?  It really is more complicated....I was just trying come up with an example to illustrate some of the dynamics that have to be dealt with between the two markets.

[Betcoin.AG]

Part of the confusion, and the part that's hardest to explain, is that the WPN operates in US dollars.  When we deposits bitcoin into the main WPN skins, it is immediately converted to US dollars and the value remains stable.  But, when we  deposit at Betcoin, our deposits remain bitcoin and the value fluctuates with the US dollar.  So, it is difficult to pin a specific value on the rake back because it will fluctuate with the price of bitcoin.  The confusion is caused by the differences in the two markets and how the two markets try to compensate for Bitcoin's volatility.

I say that it's only part of the confusion because the other part is that Betcoin also offers a higher rake back on there "in house" games than the WPN provides for their network games.  I suspect that Bitcoins volatility, along with the differing rake back programs, is the reason why we can't play in the network cash games from Betcoin anymore.  It's just too complicated to state simply.

Excellent points cjmoles.  Just to clarify a couple things we are working to get more data from WPN play and that will come complete with full leaderboards, prizes for rankings and other great promotional perks and privileges.  We are limited by what is provided at this time but that will change in the near future. 

Our VIP system overall provides a very aggressive rakeback, lossback and betbet return to our great players that is tough to find at any fiat casino at this time.  Anybody that starts tables which is quite a few people now we actually lose bitcoin on because we are giving 100% rakeback and a percentage of rakeback for the VIP and the affiliate if they have one.  You won't find this opportunity anywhere else for that reason, but we want to give our players the greatest possible value.  Lastly, for tournaments we pay the full percentage based on your VIP level. 

The value of playing at Betcoin is extremely high when compared to competitors and we will always work to keep this great advantage for our great players. 

[Betcoin.AG]

Well, my rake back at ACR and BCP is 17% and that's USD, but my rake back at Betcoin is still only 10% (it changes according to VIP level but it doesn't at ACR or BCP) and that's bitcoin.  

But, say for example, I played the $500 + $40 tourney at Betcoin, but when I bought in, bitcoin was worth $400.  Then, when the tournament ended 12 hours later, bitcoins value had dropped back down to $250.  Where would the value of my rake back be pegged?  While at the same time, if I bought in at ACR (not really possible) for the same amount, my rake back would still be pegged at the original buy-in value.  See where the confusion lies?  It really is more complicated....I was just trying come up with an example to illustrate some of the dynamics that have to be dealt with between the two markets.

Also don't forget about the actual rake being half of the rake of our competitors!

Pretty cool that we are adding a new page everyday on our thread and getting some very good click through from a great discussion!  Keep it up everyone as all feedback suggestions and recommendations are welcome anytime!

[TwitchySeal]

Other than the table starter promotion which affects at most two players per table at Betcoin Cash games, they offer the same rake back at all games.  There are no "different rake back programs".  (unless they introduced something very recently)

When you register for a WPN tournament (which are in USD), you get a pop up letting you know how many chips (mbtcs) you will be charged before confirming.

Most of the confusion would not exist if Betcoin were to keep a financial history for tournaments played and make it available to both players and support.  I suspect that even support doesn't have access to the WPN tournament history of any individual player.  This is why it's so difficult to prove they are under paying their rakeback, especially for players who have comp points coming to them for other reasons (non WPN mtts) - it took me months before I was 100% sure I was being underpaid. 

This is also why its so wrong of them to use this kind of logic on a player who believes they have been underpaid:

We have many players that play regularly now and if it wasn't accurate, you would hear from them all.
I AGREE...THIS IS BAD LOGIC.

I also agree that we should be provided a history of our game play, so that we can keep accurate records within the platform.

Well, my rake back at ACR and BCP is 17% and that's USD, but my rake back at Betcoin is still only 10% (it changes according to VIP level but it doesn't at ACR or BCP) and that's bitcoin.  

But, say for example, I played the $500 + $40 tourney at Betcoin, but when I bought in, bitcoin was worth $400.  Then, when the tournament ended 12 hours later, bitcoins value had dropped back down to $250.  Where would the value of my rake back be pegged?  While at the same time, if I bought in at ACR (not really possible) for the same amount, my rake back would still be pegged at the original buy-in value.  See where the confusion lies?  It really is more complicated....I was just trying come up with an example to illustrate some of the dynamics that have to be dealt with between the two markets.

Your rake back would be based on the price when you bought into the tournament.

I agree it's not a simple situation and mistakes are to be expected.  I understand and expect the mistakes.  Every site I've ever played at has had issues which I had to contact support and ask them to fix.

The problem is not the honest mistakes Betcoin makes, it's that they consistently handle them dishonestly.

[Betcoin.AG]

We will keep you updated!

Coming to BETCOIN POKER, ACR and the WPN!!!!

We’re bringing HUGE tournament poker action back with the Online Super Series V!  With bigger prize pools and even more added tournaments from November 27th to December 6th, this series is one you won’t want to miss! This 10 days of jam packed excitement leads up to the currently 3,000 BTC ($1,000,000) Guaranteed prize pool Main Event on December 6th at 5pm EST!

The OSS V offers something for every type of poker player.  The series will hold diverse game types including Texas Holdem, Pot-Limit Omaha and PLO8 games with re-buy and re-entry structures along with an assortment of buyins.

With 76 tournaments and over currently 7,800 BTC ($2.6 million) in prize pools the OSS V is bound to have a number of events to fit your needs!!  We wish everyone the best of luck!

We are getting a lot of questions PM on at Betcoin.ag regarding the full schedule so we wanted to share the full schedule here:

All payouts are in the bitcoin value of course at Betcoin Poker. 

[TwitchySeal]

Well, my rake back at ACR and BCP is 17% and that's USD, but my rake back at Betcoin is still only 10% (it changes according to VIP level but it doesn't at ACR or BCP) and that's bitcoin.  

But, say for example, I played the $500 + $40 tourney at Betcoin, but when I bought in, bitcoin was worth $400.  Then, when the tournament ended 12 hours later, bitcoins value had dropped back down to $250.  Where would the value of my rake back be pegged?  While at the same time, if I bought in at ACR (not really possible) for the same amount, my rake back would still be pegged at the original buy-in value.  See where the confusion lies?  It really is more complicated....I was just trying come up with an example to illustrate some of the dynamics that have to be dealt with between the two markets.

Also don't forget about the actual rake being half of the rake of our competitors!

Pretty cool that we are adding a new page everyday on our thread and getting some very good click through from a great discussion!  Keep it up everyone as all feedback suggestions and recommendations are welcome anytime!

Adress each of my issues and every other players (other than scammers, cheaters, etc) that you have chosen to ignore, apologize for your mistakes and pledge to be more transparent in the future.

Double your rake.

Next thanksgiving at this time I bet you have more than 20 players online.  (WPN has over 8k, theyre out there)

[DarkDays]

Well, my rake back at ACR and BCP is 17% and that's USD, but my rake back at Betcoin is still only 10% (it changes according to VIP level but it doesn't at ACR or BCP) and that's bitcoin.  

But, say for example, I played the $500 + $40 tourney at Betcoin, but when I bought in, bitcoin was worth $400.  Then, when the tournament ended 12 hours later, bitcoins value had dropped back down to $250.  Where would the value of my rake back be pegged?  While at the same time, if I bought in at ACR (not really possible) for the same amount, my rake back would still be pegged at the original buy-in value.  See where the confusion lies?  It really is more complicated....I was just trying come up with an example to illustrate some of the dynamics that have to be dealt with between the two markets.

Also don't forget about the actual rake being half of the rake of our competitors!

Pretty cool that we are adding a new page everyday on our thread and getting some very good click through from a great discussion!  Keep it up everyone as all feedback suggestions and recommendations are welcome anytime!

Keep in mind, Betcoin finds that people complaining about their lack of knowledge and unethical behavior is "pretty cool".  Yet they are banning the players participating in this "pretty cool" discussion from their site.

Why?