capoeira
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Activity: 2388
Merit: 1003
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August 03, 2014, 02:17:26 AM |
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You do understand these guys are online over 9 months. Add 1 more year to this time and they would be 21 months online. Since full ROI is under 4 months, including reinvesting, this would mean people would reach ROI 5 times during this period. You really think something which is not legit can survive to pay out 500% return on investment to 2000 of its members just from ponzi earnings?  IMO, this just does not add up. Talking about things not adding up, they could have avoided all the hassle of dealing with investors, receipts and payments and all these awkward questions very easily. Just stayed private. If they had started with just $10k of their own money and traded and reinvested at 2% per day, then after 21 months they would have over FORTY MILLION DOLLARS. All for themselves. Why do they need investors at all? because it's a Ponzi?  |
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Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction.
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rmoraos
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August 03, 2014, 05:03:11 AM |
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Care to post a screenshot? The website you posted requires login to view the info. Register, it is free. |
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msarro
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August 04, 2014, 06:02:39 PM |
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"housemarket is not a ponzi, its inflation driven"
Interesting way of putting it. Would that mean that from 2008 to 2009 US had negative inflation in the order of 60%?
Negative inflation would be "deflation." Deflation, like in deflationary. That's good, right? It really depends on what economist you talk to whether inflation or deflation are a "good" thing. There's actually a good bit of evidence showing that very minimal inflation is good (>=~1%). It gets people to buy things rather than continually waiting for prices to go down. In this forum, this opinion, shared by about 95% of economists...will cause you a lot of agressive replys. Btw: what is good or not for a specific economie depends realy on many other factors. Economies try to not find out how deflation would affect their specific situation... because when a deflation is negative it turns desasterous.....inflation is just better to control Lol, noted. I'm not too concerned. I have pretty thick skin from years of BBS's, newsgroups, and forums  Thanks for the heads up though!! |
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lesnod11
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August 05, 2014, 06:41:26 AM |
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Ugh. Said I was going to bow out of this thread after making my point repeatedly and crossing swords with that vile idiot yonce. But it won't go away from my 'new replies'.
I wouldn't take that bet, even if I did bet, and I am almost certain it is a ponzi. I don't get why people think the regular payouts give it any kind of legitimacy. They don't. Ponzis carry on, paying out nicely, until they don't. Then it all falls apart overnight. What determines how long they keep going is 1) how many more people get signed up and 2) how fast they pay out the new money this brings. 120 more days is quite possible.
Does anyone have any idea about 1? It only takes one $50,000 'investor' to allow them to play for time for quite a while if most people are testing the water with $20 or $100.
And has anyone tried blockchain analysis to try to figure out where the money is coming from, if exchanges are even involved at any point?
Here's one last thing to think about. IF it's a ponzi, then you can expect the people running it to be dishonest in more than one way. That's not a stretch, right? Well, they have your email address, and your password. And lots of people reuse passwords. So if you're not 100% confident these guys are as pure as the driven snow, you might want to change that password.
EDIT: the payouts of finished contracts don't fundamentally alter things. Sure it's a bit more they've got to cover, especially if a whale is cashing out. If - it looks like plenty of people reinvest because oh, it's proven itself now. If they do cash out, it just means they have to sign up a few more people.
LOL 'vile idiot yonce' - I had my run-in's with that fool also...... makes me laugh you call him a vile idiot. Now he seems to have disappeared. I wonder if he pissed the wrong person off?!?! |
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tmfp
Legendary
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Activity: 1932
Merit: 1737
"Common rogue from Russia with a bare ass."
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August 05, 2014, 10:58:00 AM |
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I have pretty thick skin from years of BBS's, newsgroups, and forums .... Yeah, noticed that from FB with that Opperman asshole  For me, their bullying aggression whenever the P word is mentioned is a red flag. Does anybody actually know anything whatsoever about Brandenburg or the globetrotting John Carley? |
Extraordinary Claims require Extraordinary Evidence |
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Cassius
Legendary
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Activity: 1764
Merit: 1031
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August 05, 2014, 03:55:44 PM |
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Ugh. Said I was going to bow out of this thread after making my point repeatedly and crossing swords with that vile idiot yonce. But it won't go away from my 'new replies'.
I wouldn't take that bet, even if I did bet, and I am almost certain it is a ponzi. I don't get why people think the regular payouts give it any kind of legitimacy. They don't. Ponzis carry on, paying out nicely, until they don't. Then it all falls apart overnight. What determines how long they keep going is 1) how many more people get signed up and 2) how fast they pay out the new money this brings. 120 more days is quite possible.
Does anyone have any idea about 1? It only takes one $50,000 'investor' to allow them to play for time for quite a while if most people are testing the water with $20 or $100.
And has anyone tried blockchain analysis to try to figure out where the money is coming from, if exchanges are even involved at any point?
Here's one last thing to think about. IF it's a ponzi, then you can expect the people running it to be dishonest in more than one way. That's not a stretch, right? Well, they have your email address, and your password. And lots of people reuse passwords. So if you're not 100% confident these guys are as pure as the driven snow, you might want to change that password.
EDIT: the payouts of finished contracts don't fundamentally alter things. Sure it's a bit more they've got to cover, especially if a whale is cashing out. If - it looks like plenty of people reinvest because oh, it's proven itself now. If they do cash out, it just means they have to sign up a few more people.
LOL 'vile idiot yonce' - I had my run-in's with that fool also...... makes me laugh you call him a vile idiot. Now he seems to have disappeared. I wonder if he pissed the wrong person off?!?! I understand the 'official ponzi' of which he was an administrator collapsed. Though I think his narrative is a little different... it seems he acted impeccably throughout and was stitched up, or something. Yonce's attitude was that ponzis are fine, assuming that his downlines are only other people who know it's a ponzi. Which is a little bit like selling guns to drug dealers, but not actually shooting anyone yourself. Can't say I miss him. |
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msarro
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August 05, 2014, 07:35:19 PM |
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Ugh. Said I was going to bow out of this thread after making my point repeatedly and crossing swords with that vile idiot yonce. But it won't go away from my 'new replies'.
I wouldn't take that bet, even if I did bet, and I am almost certain it is a ponzi. I don't get why people think the regular payouts give it any kind of legitimacy. They don't. Ponzis carry on, paying out nicely, until they don't. Then it all falls apart overnight. What determines how long they keep going is 1) how many more people get signed up and 2) how fast they pay out the new money this brings. 120 more days is quite possible.
Does anyone have any idea about 1? It only takes one $50,000 'investor' to allow them to play for time for quite a while if most people are testing the water with $20 or $100.
And has anyone tried blockchain analysis to try to figure out where the money is coming from, if exchanges are even involved at any point?
Here's one last thing to think about. IF it's a ponzi, then you can expect the people running it to be dishonest in more than one way. That's not a stretch, right? Well, they have your email address, and your password. And lots of people reuse passwords. So if you're not 100% confident these guys are as pure as the driven snow, you might want to change that password.
EDIT: the payouts of finished contracts don't fundamentally alter things. Sure it's a bit more they've got to cover, especially if a whale is cashing out. If - it looks like plenty of people reinvest because oh, it's proven itself now. If they do cash out, it just means they have to sign up a few more people.
LOL 'vile idiot yonce' - I had my run-in's with that fool also...... makes me laugh you call him a vile idiot. Now he seems to have disappeared. I wonder if he pissed the wrong person off?!?! I understand the 'official ponzi' of which he was an administrator collapsed. Though I think his narrative is a little different... it seems he acted impeccably throughout and was stitched up, or something. Yonce's attitude was that ponzis are fine, assuming that his downlines are only other people who know it's a ponzi. Which is a little bit like selling guns to drug dealers, but not actually shooting anyone yourself. Can't say I miss him. Eh, kind of I guess. I do agree with what he was saying somewhat. If it's a ponzi, and everyone knows it is a ponzi, then it's more like a casino. At some point the buck will stop and someone will lose. So long as they're aware that that possibility was there, egg on their face. I remember when dogecoin was new you used to see moneybomb sites all over the place where you pay N doge to buy a "bomb" that had a timer, and then you refer a bunch of people. Then when someone pays in, they get to hold "the bomb" and you get your money back plus a bonus from the buyer. At some point the timer ran out and "boom," the person holding it lost everything. That's basically the same thing as a ponzi. The next person pays for the previous person, until one day there isn't a next person. Then the guy who is holding it loses everything. There's nothing wrong with the game so long as everyone involved knows that those are the rules of the game, you know? Yonce had some decent points, but his presentation sucked BFDD. |
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capoeira
Legendary
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Activity: 2388
Merit: 1003
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August 06, 2014, 09:20:30 PM |
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Yonce's attitude was that ponzis are fine, assuming that his downlines are only other people who know it's a ponzi.
I know anacaps who think like this.....if you take anarcocapitalism word by word than ponzis are just "voluntary interchange " |
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tuanvie
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August 06, 2014, 11:50:31 PM |
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I recommend for this kind remain cautious, because if it does not alert anything can happen
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BombaUcigasa
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Activity: 1442
Merit: 1000
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August 07, 2014, 06:58:57 AM |
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Yonce's attitude was that ponzis are fine, assuming that his downlines are only other people who know it's a ponzi.
I know anacaps who think like this.....if you take anarcocapitalism word by word than ponzis are just "voluntary interchange " If you look at the end result of the process, what happens after a ponzi known to be a ponzi, then it appears to be a voluntary interchange. Value is not lost, value is not created, it only exchanges hands in an unequal manner. |
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capoeira
Legendary
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Activity: 2388
Merit: 1003
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August 07, 2014, 12:05:02 PM |
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Yonce's attitude was that ponzis are fine, assuming that his downlines are only other people who know it's a ponzi.
I know anacaps who think like this.....if you take anarcocapitalism word by word than ponzis are just "voluntary interchange " If you look at the end result of the process, what happens after a ponzi known to be a ponzi, then it appears to be a voluntary interchange. Value is not lost, value is not created, it only exchanges hands in an unequal manner. it's thinks like that why I call anarcocapitalism a religion |
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BombaUcigasa
Legendary
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Activity: 1442
Merit: 1000
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August 07, 2014, 02:03:14 PM |
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Yonce's attitude was that ponzis are fine, assuming that his downlines are only other people who know it's a ponzi.
I know anacaps who think like this.....if you take anarcocapitalism word by word than ponzis are just "voluntary interchange " If you look at the end result of the process, what happens after a ponzi known to be a ponzi, then it appears to be a voluntary interchange. Value is not lost, value is not created, it only exchanges hands in an unequal manner. it's thinks like that why I call REALITY a religion Ok... |
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BombaUcigasa
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Merit: 1000
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August 09, 2014, 09:30:46 AM |
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I am a regular web/bitcoin user. Given available information (I already know about the links you posted) I can't determine if this site operates honestly or not. Their lack of PR has no influence on this, and their MO is not significantly indicative of the actual functionality. It is also very hard to provide proof, they can't just generate a proof of funds and assign users to each slice because of the HUGE implications this would have on everyone involved. They also can't provide one day or even 3-4 days worth of trading as proof the system works, because they would just show 3% of the funds being used in some trades with little loss and either honest or subversive, the results would look the same. With careful planning I can run an identical service to this one, in one of the two modes: honest or subversive. For over a year. I don't see how they can provide any proof, maybe that full-scale third party audit could demonstrate the honesty. |
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vach
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August 09, 2014, 09:38:43 AM |
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I am a regular web/bitcoin user. Given available information (I already know about the links you posted) I can't determine if this site operates honestly or not. Their lack of PR has no influence on this, and their MO is not significantly indicative of the actual functionality. It is also very hard to provide proof, they can't just generate a proof of funds and assign users to each slice because of the HUGE implications this would have on everyone involved. They also can't provide one day or even 3-4 days worth of trading as proof the system works, because they would just show 3% of the funds being used in some trades with little loss and either honest or subversive, the results would look the same. With careful planning I can run an identical service to this one, in one of the two modes: honest or subversive. For over a year. I don't see how they can provide any proof, maybe that full-scale third party audit could demonstrate the honesty. Well from those links there are persons that can be easily found, on social networks and other ways... One cannot feel safe scamming people and knowing that their identity is accessible... thats why anonymousity of HYIPs is logical... in this case I can track at least one person. I really dont understand how people are not afraid of their security if they are publicly scamming? In my country 99% such a person will get killed... |
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BombaUcigasa
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August 09, 2014, 09:42:45 AM
Last edit: August 09, 2014, 10:40:26 AM by BombaUcigasa |
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Well from those links there are persons that can be easily found, on social networks and other ways...
One cannot feel safe scamming people and knowing that their identity is accessible... thats why anonymousity of HYIPs is logical... in this case I can track at least one person.
I really dont understand how people are not afraid of their security if they are publicly scamming? In my country 99% such a person will get killed...
Look at this forum. Count the number of times publicly active figures, that have known locations have scammed millions and hundreds of millions of dollars and lied to thousands of clients. They don't live in your country. They are still alive and going about their business. (except pirate@40 because he was highly idiotic, but still alive) Look outside this forum. People have scammed and stolen millions of dollars of property. Some are in prison, some are not, but nobody died and they didn't care much while scamming. They don't live in your country. Here's an example of someone that is in top 300 richest people in the country that got 10 years in prison: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Voiculescu. Fortune estimated at 1.5 - 1.6 billion euros. Confiscated: 60 million euros. He stole billions of euros from people and the state and the state gets back just 60 million. I see this concept of "public figure = trust rating over 9000" is valid for americans. They feel that if someone can be found, they can be sued and punished, so they wouldn't think about wrong-doing. Not all people are normal. So I don't agree with this line of thought. There needs to be technical proof, both of their honesty and their technical performance. I don't call anyone a scammer unless proven, as I said, bitcoin-trader.biz can be a perfectly legitimate honest operation based on public information. |
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vach
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August 09, 2014, 09:46:17 AM |
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Have you noticed that MNO blog admin is a scammer too!
I've got a message from him about doing investsments directly with him, and he too just fooled me... Hopefully I didnt give away much money.. But that man I was thinking he has a business to lose, a reputation, but just as you pointed out he still runs his business and nobody giving a shit that this man just is a criminal...
Seems those jerks are working together...
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Grinder
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August 09, 2014, 10:06:26 AM |
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Well from those links there are persons that can be easily found, on social networks and other ways...
Sure, but none of the people that turn up for these events are actually involved in the running of BT, they are just people hired to represent them. The fact that BT makes so much effort to appear legitimate without actually showing their faces just makes it more suspicious. |
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crazyivan
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Merit: 1007
DMD Diamond Making Money 4+ years! Join us!
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August 09, 2014, 12:18:36 PM |
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Have you noticed that MNO blog admin is a scammer too!
I've got a message from him about doing investsments directly with him, and he too just fooled me... Hopefully I didnt give away much money.. But that man I was thinking he has a business to lose, a reputation, but just as you pointed out he still runs his business and nobody giving a shit that this man just is a criminal...
Seems those jerks are working together...
???What did you do? What did u invest it and who invited you to invest? Can you pls elaborate a bit. |
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vach
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August 09, 2014, 12:31:59 PM |
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Have you noticed that MNO blog admin is a scammer too!
I've got a message from him about doing investsments directly with him, and he too just fooled me... Hopefully I didnt give away much money.. But that man I was thinking he has a business to lose, a reputation, but just as you pointed out he still runs his business and nobody giving a shit that this man just is a criminal...
Seems those jerks are working together...
???What did you do? What did u invest it and who invited you to invest? Can you pls elaborate a bit. Sure, when i've first heard "MNO" abbrevation in this thread i've checked that blog and got lot of information, at that time I was stupid enough to invest here and there and constantly got robbed, then I've started to move out of game early and recovered all (almost all loses), that perioud I've had email conversations with Paul Abromson < abromsonp@gmail.com>, he is the admin, and this email is provided in that blog... Anyways after quite a some time this happened https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=695188.msg7851357#msg7851357I've invested 1BTC for 30 days and after 30 days I've wrote him asking to withdraw money, and guess what he didnt answer since that time... I've tried to contact him with different email but the same he didnt answer (or maybe he checked my IP i'm not sure), then i've opened a thread here but no one take any interest in it... His blog still operating, and i'm pretty sure he is one of those scamer admins too... Here's why: when OilRigContractors were operating he were reviewing and talking very confidently that it is a probable scam as there cant be that much money in enire HYIP industry, how can one know that unless he done that... Also and most importantly He offered me to sell a website like RockwellPartners for 10000 $ thinking that i might be interested in scamming people. I have all those conversations, and I can prove it if someone doubts my words... |
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