bitcoin-trader.biz

[Grinder]

Anyone with $100k and a mathematical brain (I have neither) can technically make $1000/day with arbitrage, more on a particularly volatile day, less on a shocker of a day, even a loss.

This is something you all really need to stop telling yourself if you want to avoid getting scammed. It is very unlikely to be true.

[GoldSurfer]

Anyone with $100k and a mathematical brain (I have neither) can technically make $1000/day with arbitrage, more on a particularly volatile day, less on a shocker of a day, even a loss.

Mathematical brain will not help you here. 

[herbiehasher]

Where I work, you could get rid of the Executives and things would work better nomsayin?
Step 1, get rid of all the managers.
Please go back to work traders, unless you guys are taking time off, did you guys ever get a vacation since the company started up?

No backup server?  I have backups of my backups of my wallets and miner controllers.  Downtime is about 5 min.
Also copies of several blockchains, 2TB usb HDD's are cheap.

[Illutian]

I keep forgetting it's 2014 and not 2015 

Original Post:

Judging by the 'Whois' report (https://who.is/whois/https://bitcoin-trader.biz). BT will be 404ing or going to a Domain Parking page on the 19th of October.

[david123]

19th of October 2015. I don't know if this is a warning sign, maybe it's standart to renew it
on a yearly basis..

[Xer0]

maybe it's standart to renew it on a yearly basis..

yes thats the default for domain registrars

[Phildo]

Oh, I should point out I never meant you could get the returns BT Trader is claiming but you could certainly provide a *good* return.

None of us know what the if-this-isn't-a-Ponzi business model was because they didn't tell us, so we've only ourselves to blame.

I'm not denying it's a Ponzi - as has become truth rather than suspicion - but it is possible to run managed arbitrage and everyone make some money from it. Maybe not as much as these guys were claiming, but you could do well without shafting anyone.

As for the PR, well, the masterstroke was the mining shares. We all know that's a business model that works so it gave some people

Anyone with $100k and a mathematical brain (I have neither) can technically make $1000/day with arbitrage, more on a particularly volatile day, less on a shocker of a day, even a loss.
390
I still think the staff have been left high and dry by this Carley character, but I doubt there's eight anybodies trading, they're an invention. The people who do the comms, they're the ones who are left high and dry. I vaguely recall someone mentioning they'd never met Carley, which is when the dial swung firmly to Ponzi.

As with anything in the BTC world, be prepared to lose your inputs because nine times out of ten, when you entrust your cash/coin to others in this world, they steal it.

People need to stop thinking and falling for this.

You can't arbitrage with infinite amounts of money. Right now You can buy 1 coin for $390 on btc-e and sell one for $400 on bitstamp. Yay, 10 bucks via arbitrage. But if you try to sell $100k worth of coins on you will sell the last coin for only $395, and who knows what price you will pay for the last coin at btc-e. The markets are not liquid enough to arbitrage with massive/infinite amounts of money.

[sunny1]

There is a chance to recover your money http://link.alphacentaurus.net/2 (click on the right upper button to go to the site);
But now you know that the site will endure eleven months .

Regarding the similarity of BT and EI; seems that both belongs to the same owner.

Centaurus, this is SPAM!

[sunny1]

Oh, I should point out I never meant you could get the returns BT Trader is claiming but you could certainly provide a *good* return.

None of us know what the if-this-isn't-a-Ponzi business model was because they didn't tell us, so we've only ourselves to blame.

I'm not denying it's a Ponzi - as has become truth rather than suspicion - but it is possible to run managed arbitrage and everyone make some money from it. Maybe not as much as these guys were claiming, but you could do well without shafting anyone.

As for the PR, well, the masterstroke was the mining shares. We all know that's a business model that works so it gave some people

Anyone with $100k and a mathematical brain (I have neither) can technically make $1000/day with arbitrage, more on a particularly volatile day, less on a shocker of a day, even a loss.
390
I still think the staff have been left high and dry by this Carley character, but I doubt there's eight anybodies trading, they're an invention. The people who do the comms, they're the ones who are left high and dry. I vaguely recall someone mentioning they'd never met Carley, which is when the dial swung firmly to Ponzi.

As with anything in the BTC world, be prepared to lose your inputs because nine times out of ten, when you entrust your cash/coin to others in this world, they steal it.

People need to stop thinking and falling for this.

You can't arbitrage with infinite amounts of money. Right now You can buy 1 coin for $390 on btc-e and sell one for $400 on bitstamp. Yay, 10 bucks via arbitrage. But if you try to sell $100k worth of coins on you will sell the last coin for only $395, and who knows what price you will pay for the last coin at btc-e. The markets are not liquid enough to arbitrage with massive/infinite amounts of money.

I agree Phildo, there are for sure limitations.

[msarro]

Oh, I should point out I never meant you could get the returns BT Trader is claiming but you could certainly provide a *good* return.

None of us know what the if-this-isn't-a-Ponzi business model was because they didn't tell us, so we've only ourselves to blame.

I'm not denying it's a Ponzi - as has become truth rather than suspicion - but it is possible to run managed arbitrage and everyone make some money from it. Maybe not as much as these guys were claiming, but you could do well without shafting anyone.

As for the PR, well, the masterstroke was the mining shares. We all know that's a business model that works so it gave some people

Anyone with $100k and a mathematical brain (I have neither) can technically make $1000/day with arbitrage, more on a particularly volatile day, less on a shocker of a day, even a loss.
390
I still think the staff have been left high and dry by this Carley character, but I doubt there's eight anybodies trading, they're an invention. The people who do the comms, they're the ones who are left high and dry. I vaguely recall someone mentioning they'd never met Carley, which is when the dial swung firmly to Ponzi.

As with anything in the BTC world, be prepared to lose your inputs because nine times out of ten, when you entrust your cash/coin to others in this world, they steal it.

People need to stop thinking and falling for this.

You can't arbitrage with infinite amounts of money. Right now You can buy 1 coin for $390 on btc-e and sell one for $400 on bitstamp. Yay, 10 bucks via arbitrage. But if you try to sell $100k worth of coins on you will sell the last coin for only $395, and who knows what price you will pay for the last coin at btc-e. The markets are not liquid enough to arbitrage with massive/infinite amounts of money.

I agree Phildo, there are for sure limitations.

This is very true. You have to really understand the market and the current orderbooks to be successful with arbitrage like that. Can the orderbooks support you placing a large buy/sell without destroying your profit? You can make 10$ off a sale, sure, heck, maybe you can even sell a couple bitcoin like that. But after that you'll start burning through orderbooks like no one's business. There's a sweet spot where you've got enough liquidity to make a profit, but not so much that you become a whale.

[Centaurus]

There is a chance to recover your money http://link.alphacentaurus.net/2 (click on the right upper button to go to the site);
But now you know that the site will endure eleven months .

Regarding the similarity of BT and EI; seems that both belongs to the same owner.

Centaurus, this is SPAM!

Thanks Sunny1;
With best regards, can't you see similarity beteen these two sites?

[fingertoe11]

Anyone with $100k and a mathematical brain (I have neither) can technically make $1000/day with arbitrage, more on a particularly volatile day, less on a shocker of a day, even a loss.

Mathematical brain will not help you here. 

Yep --   One ought not expect ponzi like returns from arbitrage..   If you look 1, the fixed arbitrage opportunities are there for a reason, and 2, the depth of orders is rarely sufficient to make massive amounts..  3 It is a lot more complicated than it looks at first glance -- you have to engineer a way to re-balance your accounts without de-arbitraging your gains..  Fiat is a lot harder and slower to move than Bitcoin.

[planecrash]

Are you referring to the official or unofficial group?

My bad, it appears as though I'm confused.  I was referring to the official group.

[Phantom Trader]

Seems they are already operating a new scheme: https://www.esotericinvestments.com

I have contacted their support with a silly question and the reply was almost identical to what BT replied at the time they were still replying.

What was the question and response from Esoteric Investments and Bitcoin Trader? Because my impression is a strong thats not them just someone else that knows how to make money in the crypto markets and is opening that ability up to other people...making more in the process I'm sure, as that is business.

My research found that Esoteric Investments isn't Bitcoin Trader. They are a registered LLC in New Jersey, USA by Dan Pace and Glenn Crystal (Not John Carley) since March when Bitcoin trader was doing fairly well. Pretty simple business search could have found that out for you.

Plus they are in America if Esoteric goes Gox in America, The United stated will not hesitate to drop the hammer on a scam especially a bitcoin scam they are just waiting to make an example of someone. And it was pretty clear that Bitcoin Trader was avoiding being stations in the USA despite most of their actual business and events were in the states.

If you all were so in love with Bitcoin Traders performance I think Esoteric is at least worth a look as the next thing, and hopefully Bitcoin trader doesnt gox and then we can diversify among two of these passive incomes.

I'm already in them for a small trial amount to test the waters. Feel free to use my referral to help me earn a little more.
https://www.esotericinvestments.com?refid=4

[rammy2k2]

TROLOLOLOL

Latest FB update :

I would like to ask the help of everyone who is interested in finding John Carley. Most people have jumped to the conclusion that John has pulled a quick one on all of us. Some are still convinced that there is another reason. We have come to a point where BT staff are quitting and the situation has spun out of control. For whatever reason,we have to find John to find out what the truth is and move on. I am not posting this as the PR of BT but as a concerned investor,and I will not be leading the search,but I will give my full support. First thing I suggest we do is start contacting the port authorities.

Thomas trying to pose in the victim role now, when he actually promoted this scam non stop.

[Keyser Soze]

snip

You are delusional if you think that is a legitimate business. While they may not be the exact same people who ran BT, who ever created this new site copied quite a bit from them. Seeing that you are a brand new account posting a referral link, you are probably just a shill.

[tangopoint]

I see four possible situations that may of occurred:

1) Server crashed, they need to recover and rebuild the server and fix it so it doesn't crash again
2) The owner ran with the bitcoin and crashed the server.  The server crash could be a coverup, a ruse, or a fabricated story
3) They got hacked
4) The server crashed and they lost bitcoin keys.


#1 would indicate a lax owner who programmed and setup all the systems himself, went on a long vacation and isn't overly worried about dealing with the bad PR and downtime.  This happens with tech businesses formed by a developer, especially a semi-reclusive bitcoin type.  This is the situation investors are hoping for.

#2 most probable at this point.  It has been over 10 days and no official response.  The only action is from a part-type sysadmin who is likely in another country and is/was loosely coordinating with a remote PR manager.

#3 This could correspond to a server crash. The inability to brings things back up and a lack/slow response would be consistent with this.  An embezzlement is a form of a hack.

#4 An unlikely but possible scenario

[fingertoe11]

1) Server crashed, they need to recover and rebuild the server and fix it so it doesn't crash again
2) The owner ran with the bitcoin and crashed the server.  The server crash could be a coverup, a ruse, or a fabricated story
3) They got hacked
4) The server crashed and they lost bitcoin keys.

I don't think it is even that complicated.  Cashouts overran the capacity of the hot wallet.  No money in hotwallet means no cashout till somebody refills hot wallet..   Blame it on a crashed server to buy a couple days to disappear. 

[Illutian]

Considering that now even their PR guy is going "guzy halp us find him". And stating that BT employees are quitting "left and right" from the sound of it.

You can take off all those choices and just leave: Owner scammed and ran.


lol...Joooohn, why you no wait till November 4th-ish so I could cash out, and collect, my October 28th shares   

[BombaUcigasa]

You can't arbitrage with infinite amounts of money. Right now You can buy 1 coin for $390 on btc-e and sell one for $400 on bitstamp. Yay, 10 bucks via arbitrage. But if you try to sell $100k worth of coins on you will sell the last coin for only $395, and who knows what price you will pay for the last coin at btc-e. The markets are not liquid enough to arbitrage with massive/infinite amounts of money.

You need to educate yourself:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_maker
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_power

People move the price because they use the market. You don't need to use both markets, only one. You don't need to move the market, you wait. You can also do it for several hours. Also, you can reuse the money, it isn't spent.

Bitstamp had 17000 BTC volume today. Supposedly you are only on one side today (another exchange has a constantly deviated price in the same direction) and can control 5% of the market without impeding your operation. That means you can arbitrate 17000 / 2 / 20 = 42.5 BTC. Now you only work 8 hours, so divide by 3: 14.1 BTC.

For each of the about 14 BTC, you get an average 10 USD profit, so you get 140 USD profit today. Multiply this by the inverse of the declared profit of 0.8% and you get: 140 USD / 0.8% = 17500 USD total.

Is it far fetched that they had 17500 USD or 44 BTC from client funds?