[ANN][XCP] Counterparty - Pioneering Peer-to-Peer Finance - Official Thread

[Chang Hum]

I'm sure this isn't how Mastercoin really works or the whole project would be one big ridiculous joke, however this is what he's been tricked into believing by the foundation he has to do to issue an asset (buy a ridiculous proportion of all mastercoin in existence!!!)


https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/maidsafe-development/j8QBYnXOYUI
How many mastercoins are required to release the total amount of Msafe?

total issue of MSAFE == 429,496,729
MSAFE per MSC == 3400

MSC required == 429,496,729 / 3400 == 126322 (not counting the bonus, which makes it a little less, but harder to explain)

^^^my notes changhum^^^^That's 20% of all the Mastercoin in existence they're telling him he's got to sell to issue an asset, If he hadn't moved the price from 0.06 to the above it would be 429,496,729 / 1020 = 421071 or 68% of all mastercoins in existence required to complete his fundraiser to $10m!!

Summary

Sell all loaned mastercoins lent by foundation - replace with tokens which represent no added value
total payment to 3rd party nothing to do with project $10000000
0% of Bitcoin raised for pool
A few americans drinking champagne

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

By comparison with XCP, $1 asset issuance,

Summary

Create Bitcoin burn address - Distribute assets accordingly
total payment to 3rd party nothing to do with project $1
100% of Bitcoin raised for pool

[Abel7730]

How does XCP compare with MSC?

[Chang Hum]

How does XCP compare with MSC?

Snap!! for asset issuance check chart above.

[nakaone]

I do not get Changs point - but anyway. David Johnston is more or less owning both projects (MSC and Maidsafe) with his angelfund. I think the only guy getting a somewhat strange deal in this arrangement is David Irwine, the maidsafe founder. I wondered from the beginning what he wants to do with all this mastercoins he gets.

I have an educated guess who the person exchanging the bitcoins for mastercoins is http://www.safecoin.io/ - especially after sowhing his great interest in ethereum .

[Chang Hum]

I do not get Changs point - but anyway. David Johnston is more or less owning both projects (MSC and Maidsafe) with his angelfund. I think the only guy getting a somewhat strange deal in this arrangement is David Irwine, the maidsafe founder. I wondered from the beginning what he wants to do with all this mastercoins he gets.

I have an educated guess who the person exchanging the bitcoins for mastercoins is http://www.safecoin.io/ - especially after sowhing his great interest in ethereum .

Don't worry no one ever gets my points:

If he issued an asset on the Dex it would have have cost $1 and been painless he could have issued the assets by return to any wallets sending funds.

It is the case with master coin that he's been told by the foundation he has to sell a volume of mastercoin to issue each asset. They have lent him a large amount of mastercoin to do this with! The amount he is told he needs to sell to issue all assets is between 20-70% of mastercoin in existence for the full $10m), Doesn't this seem crazy and bizzare to anyone?

At the end as you say what's he going to do with all the mastercoin, he's handed over all the REAL value to the Mastercoin Foundation and he's left holding mastercoins to pay off previous investors and handle ongoing costs with. It's mad.

[stereotype]

I do not get Changs point - but anyway. David Johnston is more or less owning both projects (MSC and Maidsafe) with his angelfund. I think the only guy getting a somewhat strange deal in this arrangement is David Irwine, the maidsafe founder. I wondered from the beginning what he wants to do with all this mastercoins he gets.

I have an educated guess who the person exchanging the bitcoins for mastercoins is http://www.safecoin.io/ - especially after sowhing his great interest in ethereum .

Don't worry no one ever gets my points:

If he issued an asset on the Dex it would have have cost $1 and been painless he could have issued the assets by return to any wallets sending funds.

It is the case with master coin that he's been told by the foundation he has to sell a volume of mastercoin to issue each asset. They have lent him a large amount of mastercoin to do this with! The amount he is told he needs to sell to issue all assets is between 20-70% of mastercoin in existence for the full $10m), Doesn't this seem crazy and bizzare to anyone?

At the end as you say what's he going to do with all the mastercoin, he's handed over all the REAL value to the Mastercoin Foundation and he's left holding mastercoins to pay off previous investors and handle ongoing costs with. It's mad.

Why is it crazy and bizarre? Im not seeing the negative repercussions for MSC, you appear to be worried about??

[nakaone]

read all the stuff - there were a few messages deleted, so I cannot see what you are arguing about. AFAIK they get their funds in parts in BTC and in parts in MSC - they use them for financing the project costs over the next years.

It is more for kickstarting mastercoin - let us see where this is going.

Anyway the XCP project is miles ahead regarding usability. When the financial market functions which directly need xcp are started counterparty will be much bigger.

[romerun]

right, where did you get the 10M number, I can't do calculation these days but, will msc be able to reach 0.2 as they want to peg in a few days ? and why the price is not close to the number.

[Chang Hum]

right, where did you get the 10M number, I can't do calculation these days but, will msc be able to reach 0.2 as they want to peg in a few days ? and why the price is not close to the number.

Basically Mastercoin are raping Maidsafe by sucking whatever % is paid in Mastercoin (and will be a lot) out of his fundraiser.

Can't believe more people can't see it, maybe they can but are holding Mastercoin.

This will be the end of Mastercoin and I think Maidsafe unless he cancels this fundraiser. Really sad discussed here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=577149.msg6311982#msg6311982

[Chang Hum]

I'll check I've got one thing right about the cost of asset issuance;

If maidsafe wanted to create 429,496,729 Msafe it would just cost a small one off fee of around $1-2 right?

Then he could set up a bitcoin wallet for his fundraiser and return [funds in] with [funds in * xchange rate] of Msafe for the cost of dust?

[dexX7]

...

FYI: there is no fee required to issue assets via the Master protocol and this feature will go live in the next days. 

[coinbird]

I'm getting this error when trying to send XCP. Any ideas what causes it?

Code:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/home/xcp/counterpartyd_build/env/lib/python3.3/site-packages/requests/packages/urllib3/connectionpool.py", line 478, in urlopen
    body=body, headers=headers)
  File "/home/xcp/counterpartyd_build/env/lib/python3.3/site-packages/requests/packages/urllib3/connectionpool.py", line 285, in _make_request
    conn.request(method, url, **httplib_request_kw)
  File "/usr/lib/python3.3/http/client.py", line 1061, in request
    self._send_request(method, url, body, headers)
  File "/usr/lib/python3.3/http/client.py", line 1099, in _send_request
    self.endheaders(body)
  File "/usr/lib/python3.3/http/client.py", line 1057, in endheaders
    self._send_output(message_body)
  File "/usr/lib/python3.3/http/client.py", line 902, in _send_output
    self.send(msg)
  File "/usr/lib/python3.3/http/client.py", line 840, in send
    self.connect()
  File "/usr/lib/python3.3/http/client.py", line 818, in connect
    self.timeout, self.source_address)
  File "/usr/lib/python3.3/socket.py", line 435, in create_connection
    raise err
  File "/usr/lib/python3.3/socket.py", line 426, in create_connection
    sock.connect(sa)
ConnectionRefusedError: [Errno 111] Connection refused

During handling of the above exception, another exception occurred:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/home/xcp/counterpartyd_build/env/lib/python3.3/site-packages/requests/adapters.py", line 324, in send
    timeout=timeout
  File "/home/xcp/counterpartyd_build/env/lib/python3.3/site-packages/requests/packages/urllib3/connectionpool.py", line 528, in urlopen
    raise MaxRetryError(self, url, e)
requests.packages.urllib3.exceptions.MaxRetryError: HTTPConnectionPool(host='localhost', port=4000): Max retries exceeded with url: / (Caused by <class 'ConnectionRefusedError'>: [Errno 111] Connection refused)

During handling of the above exception, another exception occurred:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/home/xcp/counterpartyd_build/dist/counterpartyd/counterpartyd.py", line 638, in <module>
    args.unsigned)
  File "/home/xcp/counterpartyd_build/dist/counterpartyd/counterpartyd.py", line 144, in cli
    unsigned_tx_hex = util.api(method, params)
  File "/home/xcp/counterpartyd_build/dist/counterpartyd/lib/util.py", line 34, in api
    response = requests.post(config.RPC, data=json.dumps(payload), headers=headers)
  File "/home/xcp/counterpartyd_build/env/lib/python3.3/site-packages/requests/api.py", line 88, in post
    return request('post', url, data=data, **kwargs)
  File "/home/xcp/counterpartyd_build/env/lib/python3.3/site-packages/requests/api.py", line 44, in request
    return session.request(method=method, url=url, **kwargs)
  File "/home/xcp/counterpartyd_build/env/lib/python3.3/site-packages/requests/sessions.py", line 382, in request
    resp = self.send(prep, **send_kwargs)
  File "/home/xcp/counterpartyd_build/env/lib/python3.3/site-packages/requests/sessions.py", line 485, in send
    r = adapter.send(request, **kwargs)
  File "/home/xcp/counterpartyd_build/env/lib/python3.3/site-packages/requests/adapters.py", line 372, in send
    raise ConnectionError(e)
requests.exceptions.ConnectionError: HTTPConnectionPool(host='localhost', port=4000): Max retries exceeded with url: / (Caused by <class 'ConnectionRefusedError'>: [Errno 111] Connection refused)

[Chang Hum]

...

FYI: there is no fee required to issue assets via the Master protocol and this feature will go live in the next days. 

Cool so instead of paying a one off $1 you just have to buy most of the coins in existence, stripping the value out of every bitcoin raised by handing it over to mastercoin holders that sell into the staged and over inflated price? I'm interested how does this work when you need to fix the price of mastercoin for 2 fundraisers/token issuances or whatever at once?... doesn't matter I'm pretty sure this is the last.

Has the world gone mad totally mad or am I dreaming. 

[Anotheranonlol]

...

FYI: there is no fee required to issue assets via the Master protocol and this feature will go live in the next days.  

Cool so instead of paying a one off $1 you just have to buy most of the coins in existence, stripping the value out of every bitcoin raised by handing it over to mastercoin holders that sell into the staged and over inflated price? I'm interested how does this work when you need to fix the price of mastercoin for 2 fundraisers/token issuances or whatever at once?... doesn't matter I'm pretty sure this is the last.

Has the world gone mad totally mad or am I dreaming.  

I think perhaps you've gone a little bit mad  
or maybe I'm mad. I couldn't really catch what you are saying here

If there is no fee to issue asset via MSC, how does it enforce prevention of mass trolling or squatting?

[Chang Hum]

...

FYI: there is no fee required to issue assets via the Master protocol and this feature will go live in the next days.  

Cool so instead of paying a one off $1 you just have to buy most of the coins in existence, stripping the value out of every bitcoin raised by handing it over to mastercoin holders that sell into the staged and over inflated price? I'm interested how does this work when you need to fix the price of mastercoin for 2 fundraisers/token issuances or whatever at once?... doesn't matter I'm pretty sure this is the last.

Has the world gone mad totally mad or am I dreaming.  

I think perhaps you've gone a little bit mad  
or maybe I'm mad. I couldn't really catch what you are saying here

If there is no fee to issue asset via MSC, how does it enforce prevention of mass trolling or squatting?

I think you've confused two posts that are quoted together and you mean to direct that question at dexX7!!

[mindtomatter]

Chang, you're confused.  While there is no "cost" to issue a new asset on Mastercoin, Maidsafe has a set of rules (a protocol) they have worked with Mastercoin to create which defines how tokens will be distributed.  The rules of this token are built around fundraising, so value is what gets you the tokens.  They have to fix prices otherwise someone buying might get a better or worse price compared to someone buying later than they based on volatility, which punishes early purchasers. 

That is not desirable, so they picked a "fair value" that reflects the future value of the more volitile currency.  This is not such an unreasonable expectation, as Maidsafe is a prototypical (the first) usecase for Mastercoin, and should help people "get" why mastercoin offers value to them, which should push the price up beyond where Maidsafe valued it at once others follow suit.

It's not a conspiracy, it's a launch.  Mastercoin has the advantage of fundraising and prominent evangelists (mostly David Johnston), try not to be petty because we're all rowing in the same direction.  Just watch what they do and learn for when you're in the hot seat.

[prophetx]

...

FYI: there is no fee required to issue assets via the Master protocol and this feature will go live in the next days.  

Cool so instead of paying a one off $1 you just have to buy most of the coins in existence, stripping the value out of every bitcoin raised by handing it over to mastercoin holders that sell into the staged and over inflated price? I'm interested how does this work when you need to fix the price of mastercoin for 2 fundraisers/token issuances or whatever at once?... doesn't matter I'm pretty sure this is the last.

Has the world gone mad totally mad or am I dreaming.  

I think perhaps you've gone a little bit mad  
or maybe I'm mad. I couldn't really catch what you are saying here

If there is no fee to issue asset via MSC, how does it enforce prevention of mass trolling or squatting?

as far as i know in MP the asset names are not used as unique IDs they are instead given a unique ID by the protocol

there is no fee at this time for issuance, however there is a plan to have a system for issuers to pay a fee to give them priority via some filter mechanism - it's all in the latest spec

[prophetx]

I do not get Changs point - but anyway. David Johnston is more or less owning both projects (MSC and Maidsafe) with his angelfund. I think the only guy getting a somewhat strange deal in this arrangement is David Irwine, the maidsafe founder. I wondered from the beginning what he wants to do with all this mastercoins he gets.

I have an educated guess who the person exchanging the bitcoins for mastercoins is http://www.safecoin.io/ - especially after sowhing his great interest in ethereum .

finally a sane view of reality from someone.  so you are correct that maidsafe is being loaned a ton of MSC to convert them with the BTC they receive.  at the end of this they should have something like 80% btc and 20% msc in their pocket.

[Chang Hum]

Chang, you're confused.  While there is no "cost" to issue a new asset on Mastercoin, Maidsafe has a set of rules (a protocol) they have worked with Mastercoin to create which defines how tokens will be distributed.  The rules of this token are built around fundraising, so value is what gets you the tokens.  They have to fix prices otherwise someone buying might get a better or worse price compared to someone buying later than they based on volatility, which punishes early purchasers. 

That is not desirable, so they picked a "fair value" that reflects the future value of the more volitile currency.  This is not such an unreasonable expectation, as Maidsafe is a prototypical (the first) usecase for Mastercoin, and should help people "get" why mastercoin offers value to them, which should push the price up beyond where Maidsafe valued it at once others follow suit.

It's not a conspiracy, it's a launch.  Mastercoin has the advantage of fundraising and prominent evangelists (mostly David Johnston), try not to be petty because we're all rowing in the same direction.  Just watch what they do and learn for when you're in the hot seat.

We're not on the same page here, you're not countering any of the points I'm making.

[dexX7]

If there is no fee to issue asset via MSC, how does it enforce prevention of mass trolling or squatting?

The unique identifier for each currency/token/asset is currently 32 bit wide and allows therefore to issue more than 4 billion properties until we run out of space. A valid Mastercoin transaction must not be a dust transaction so pure spam is unreasonable from an economically point of view.

Asset names as identifier were never feasible in the first place without further verification and an artificial fee would not provide any cure in this context imho.