Vertcoin - First Scrypt N | First Stealth Address - Privacy without mixer

[CoinBuzz]

Adaptive N-factor doesn't really matter for ASIC resistance, it's still about as easy to make an ASIC for...  You just put some SRAM on die and then adjust lookup_gap. ASICs should always have huge power/hashrate advantages whenever you use scrypt, unfortunately.

http://www.openwall.com/lists/crypt-dev/2013/03/21/1

All you'll end up with is a blockchain that's progressively harder to validate as time goes on, which is actually a bad thing.

Do u mean it is possible to make an ASIC device with changeable N-factor with software ??

Boris/Vertcoin, can u comment on this please

[Basnoff]

Matt Green. Vertcoin. Get it ?  

Matt Green. Ok  
Very good feeling.
https://www.blogger.com/profile/05041984203678598124
I like beer  

There is no relation between Matt Green and Vertcoin, please don't put me in an awkward position

Who's behind Vertcoin  

A group of people who can actually implement groundbreaking features *and* launch all that successfully.
Good enough for me. In time we'll learn I guess.

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[TotalPanda]

Ok, I'am still a newbie in this cryptoworld  .
But, I understand very well  

[Joke mode] What "Vertans" think off the NxT channel ?

[mattbigblue]

Matt Green. Vertcoin. Get it ?  

Matt Green. Ok  
Very good feeling.
https://www.blogger.com/profile/05041984203678598124
I like beer  

There is no relation between Matt Green and Vertcoin, please don't put me in an awkward position

Who's behind Vertcoin  

Satoshi Nakamoto.

[pangu]

Matt Green. Vertcoin. Get it ?  

Matt Green. Ok  
Very good feeling.
https://www.blogger.com/profile/05041984203678598124
I like beer  

There is no relation between Matt Green and Vertcoin, please don't put me in an awkward position

Who's behind Vertcoin  

Satoshi Nakamoto.

+1

[BorisTheSpider]

Do u mean it is possible to make an ASIC device with changeable N-factor with software ??

Boris/Vertcoin, can u comment on this please

You can adjust lookup gap to compromise on memory requirements, but all you do is reduce hashrate.

It's not commercially viable to make ASICs for memory-hard algorithms, which is why we're only just starting to see them for normal Scrypt, and they are not particularly competitive with GPUs yet on a TCO basis. No-one can tell you for sure what the future will bring, but it's reasonable to expect that the more and more memory bound the algorithm, the harder it is to develop an ASIC, and that increasing memory requirements over time like Vertcoin does makes it impractical not only now, but also in the future.

[TotalPanda]

 
Satoshi Nakamoto
Satoshi Nakamoto
Satoshi Nakamoto
Satoshi Nakamoto
Satoshi Nakamoto
Satoshi Nakamoto

You're kidding me, right?

[quarkkid]

Satoshi Nakamoto
Satoshi Nakamoto
Satoshi Nakamoto
Satoshi Nakamoto
Satoshi Nakamoto
Satoshi Nakamoto

You're kidding me, right?

please tell me you are not serious, of course its not!

[nasone32]

Adaptive N-factor doesn't really matter for ASIC resistance, it's still about as easy to make an ASIC for...  You just put some SRAM on die and then adjust lookup_gap. ASICs should always have huge power/hashrate advantages whenever you use scrypt, unfortunately.

http://www.openwall.com/lists/crypt-dev/2013/03/21/1

All you'll end up with is a blockchain that's progressively harder to validate as time goes on, which is actually a bad thing.

Do u mean it is possible to make an ASIC device with changeable N-factor with software ??

Boris/Vertcoin, can u comment on this please

"You just put some SRAM on die"...
it's cache, it's expensive. transistor count on litecoin ASICs is mostly due to memory. and they are barely in advantage.
double that, and you can not be competitive with gpus anymore.
you not only double the cost of each chip, but also you reduce yield for every wafer.

to be competitive also for next N number it's simply impossible. nobody would want to buy an asic "ready for the next N=12" simply because it would cost twice as much and the market is so volatile nobody know's what will happen.

OF course it's possible to do. but costs are over the sky

[enerbyte]

Matt Green. Vertcoin. Get it ?  

Matt Green. Ok  
Very good feeling.
https://www.blogger.com/profile/05041984203678598124
I like beer  

There is no relation between Matt Green and Vertcoin, please don't put me in an awkward position

Who's behind Vertcoin  

Satoshi Nakamoto.

+1

+1 

[ieatm3s]

If I understand correctly.. When ASICS hit the market they will mine scrypt with X khash, but Vertcoin performance will be a lot less than X/2 ?

[dunchy]

All you'll end up with is a blockchain that's progressively harder to validate as time goes on, which is actually a bad thing.

Anyone care to comment on this?

[ieatm3s]

All you'll end up with is a blockchain that's progressively harder to validate as time goes on, which is actually a bad thing.

Anyone care to comment on this?

Perhaps. If we could understand the context this statement was made in.

[Vertcoin]

All you'll end up with is a blockchain that's progressively harder to validate as time goes on, which is actually a bad thing.

Anyone care to comment on this?

I just copied from Reddit.

[–]nasone32 2 points 2 hours ago
---i'm taking some time to answer here but note i'm not the dev--- Colin Percival talks about encryption. here Scrypt is not used strictly for encryption. it's use to make calculations "more difficult". with big Ns (like 20) you don't just add calculation difficulty. you also add verification difficulty on calculations made by others. the network becomes too slow then.
the N increase has been chosen to comply with moore's law http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moore%27s_law
permalinkparentreportgive goldreply
[–]autowikibot 1 point 2 hours ago
Moore's law:
Moore's law is the observation that, over the history of computing hardware, the number of transistors on integrated circuits doubles approximately every two years. The law is named after Intel co-founder Gordon E. Moore, who described the trend in his 1965 paper. His prediction has proven to be accurate, in part because the law is now used in the semiconductor industry to guide long-term planning and to set targets for research and development.
The capabilities of many digital electronic devices are strongly linked to Moore's law: processing speed, memory capacity, sensors and even the number and size of pixels in digital cameras. All of these are improving at roughly exponential rates as well. This exponential improvement has dramatically enhanced the impact of digital electronics in nearly every segment of the world economy. Moore's law describes a driving force of technological and social change in the late 20th and early 21st centuries.
The period is often quoted as 18 months because of Intel executive David House, who predicted that chip performance would double every 18 months (being a combination of the effect of more transistors and their being faster).
Image from article i
Interesting: Gordon Moore | List of eponymous laws | Integrated circuit | Intel
/u/nasone32 can reply with 'delete'. Will also delete on comment score of -1 or less. | FAQs | Mods | Magic Words | flag a glitch

[BorisTheSpider]

All you'll end up with is a blockchain that's progressively harder to validate as time goes on, which is actually a bad thing.

Anyone care to comment on this?

This was one of the reasons the N-factor was rescheduled when the hardfork to KGW was released. We wanted to not only keep older GPUs in the game for longer, whilst still maintaining ASIC resistance, but we also wanted to leave open the option of running a full node (ie. a thick client, like the current Vertcoin-Qt) in the mid->far future on "modest" hardware.

As Vertcoin develops, one thing we are sure to see is an Electrum type SPV (simplified payment verification) wallet, in which there is no need for the client to validate the blockchain anyway, because it's done on the server, however philosophically I'm not overly keen on the idea of making this kind of thing something that most people feel the need to use because a full client is memory hungry, I'd rather it was an option but that people could still easily run a full node (to maximise decentralisation).

Yes, on a full node, the blockchain gets harder to validate as N increases, but Moores law and some awareness of history should suggest it is unlikely to be a big deal - it's like we were sat here 20 years ago talking about how by 2000 it will require a whopping 256MB of RAM to run X program, and how could anyone ever imagine having such an amount.

[uswapme]

price is getting lower because of trading bots at cryptsy. fuck that. one of them making lowball selling offers for 0.1496xxx for time to time. so price is getting lower and lower.

[FreePls]

price is getting lower because of trading bots at cryptsy. fuck that. one of them making lowball selling offers for 0.1496xxx for time to time. so price is getting lower and lower.

well but if someone is running a bot to make the price lower, that means he wants to get into that coin (cheaper) 

so he wants the coin because he believes in it!

[user871710]

If I understand correctly.. When ASICS hit the market they will mine scrypt with X khash, but Vertcoin performance will be a lot less than X/2 ?

If that was true there wouldnt be need for diffrent cgminer and we could mine in just normal cgminer, but we would have half the hash.
They wont be able to mine it.
Asic is not so advanced it can do just the operation its programed for.

[ieatm3s]

so he wants the coin because he believes in it!

Or he is just greedy.