[ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency

[flound1129]

I wasn't even aware stratum updates were required until about 20 minutes ago.  I am asking my developer to merge the changes now.

However, I still think this is stupid and should be done in the wallet code.

Great, thanks for looking into it!


I agree that this could have been communicated in a more transparent way. And I see that stuff like this is a huge pain for pools using custom stratum solutions (i.e. multipools).

Then once enforcement starts...its a feature 

We shall see.  I'll be here to say "I told you so" when I see the "EMERGENCY UPDATE FOR MASTERNODE PAYMENTS EXPLOIT" emails going out in 3 months.

[TheBlackDogeOfWallStreet]

I'm thinking that if.....

....if I am reading TheBlackDoge correctly

You run custom pool software - correct

Then getting DRK software to run on your system would be your issue and not a DRK issue

Introducing a gratuitous incompatibility that makes it harder for pools to mine your coin is a DRK issue as well.

Pools are an adaptation to decentralised crypto? Adapt, n'est-ce pas?

We are adapting.  The point is via lazy coding you are increasing the number of headaches in my life and I have enough already.

+111111

Multipools support so many coins, and every coin has their way of doing things, and we already have such a huge headache from avoiding forks, mandatory updates (across 40 wallets!!) that when a coin comes along and is like "Hey now you also need custom code, or a stratum update" it throws quiet the fork in to our operations. We don't follow your coins directly (at least I don't) but we are more than happy to comply and make sure your eco system is working-- just make it easy and clear for us to do so, because we have to do it across MANY MANY coins every day.

[coins101]

I wasn't even aware stratum updates were required until about 20 minutes ago.  I am asking my developer to merge the changes now.

However, I still think this is stupid and should be done in the wallet code.

Great, thanks for looking into it!


I agree that this could have been communicated in a more transparent way. And I see that stuff like this is a huge pain for pools using custom stratum solutions (i.e. multipools).

Then once enforcement starts...its a feature  

We shall see.  I'll be here to say "I told you so" when I see the "EMERGENCY UPDATE FOR MASTERNODE PAYMENTS EXPLOIT" emails going out in 3 months.

Keep a few of those mulit-pooled DRKs, in 3 months we'll be having a few beers on the moon.

[ddink7]

{SNIP}

Multipools support so many coins, and every coin has their way of doing things, and we already have such a huge headache from avoiding forks, mandatory updates (across 40 wallets!!) that when a coin comes along and is like "Hey now you also need custom code, or a stratum update" it throws quiet the fork in to our operations. We don't follow your coins directly (at least I don't) but we are more than happy to comply and make sure your eco system is working-- just make it easy and clear for us to do so, because we have to do it across MANY MANY coins every day.

That's like complaining that you run a travel agency and each airline has different policies and keeping up with them is SUCH a burden. I mean, isn't it kind of obvious that dealing with dozens of coins is going to be challenging?

[coins101]

Haven't been able to keep up recently.

Sporks: are they a permanent feature of alt-coins? Hard forks can now be replaced by 2-step implementations, including checkpoints?

If so, no more ASICs unless it is voted upon by choice?

Part of LTC price pressure has been said to be down to ASIC miners dumping

https://litecointalk.org/index.php?topic=2327.msg190260#msg190260

BUMP

Can I ask, are Sporks the end of ASICs?

BUMP

Have we Has Evan just saved Bitcoin and Litecoin?

OK, now this is silly. I'm having a bump conversation with myself.

Someone save me.

Did Evan just save Bitcoin and Litecoin from ASICs?

[hartvercoint]

We are adapting.  The point is via lazy coding you are increasing the number of headaches in my life and I have enough already.

+111111

Multipools support so many coins, and every coin has their way of doing things, and we already have such a huge headache from avoiding forks, mandatory updates (across 40 wallets!!) that when a coin comes along and is like "Hey now you also need custom code, or a stratum update" it throws quiet the fork in to our operations. We don't follow your coins directly (at least I don't) but we are more than happy to comply and make sure your eco system is working-- just make it easy and clear for us to do so, because we have to do it across MANY MANY coins every day.

Although I understand the issue: This is what you earn quite some money with. I think it's worth your while

Thanks for giving your best to comply!


@coins101: I don't see the connection between ASICs and soft-forks

[coins101]

We are adapting.  The point is via lazy coding you are increasing the number of headaches in my life and I have enough already.

+111111

Multipools support so many coins, and every coin has their way of doing things, and we already have such a huge headache from avoiding forks, mandatory updates (across 40 wallets!!) that when a coin comes along and is like "Hey now you also need custom code, or a stratum update" it throws quiet the fork in to our operations. We don't follow your coins directly (at least I don't) but we are more than happy to comply and make sure your eco system is working-- just make it easy and clear for us to do so, because we have to do it across MANY MANY coins every day.

Although I understand the issue: This is what you earn quite some money with. I think it's worth your while

Thanks for giving your best to comply!

+101

And if you know any other pools not complying, perhaps you can pass on their details or let them know directly. Glad to see the email campaign is working.

[thelonecrouton]

Alright cheers, I'm forwarding this to my engineers to see if we could make this work.

We are adapting.  The point is via lazy coding you are increasing the number of headaches in my life and I have enough already.

Dear fellow DRKheads, these guys do have a point, stop ragging on them so much.

Maybe someone with Evan's ear might mention these issues and see what might be done in future to improve the situation?

The whole ecosystem needs to be supported, not just our particular favourite parts of it, anything that can be done to help should be considered.

 

 

[hartvercoint]

{SNIP}

Multipools support so many coins, and every coin has their way of doing things, and we already have such a huge headache from avoiding forks, mandatory updates (across 40 wallets!!) that when a coin comes along and is like "Hey now you also need custom code, or a stratum update" it throws quiet the fork in to our operations. We don't follow your coins directly (at least I don't) but we are more than happy to comply and make sure your eco system is working-- just make it easy and clear for us to do so, because we have to do it across MANY MANY coins every day.

That's like complaining that you run a travel agency and each airline has different policies and keeping up with them is SUCH a burden. I mean, isn't it kind of obvious that dealing with dozens of coins is going to be challenging?

+1

Have you guys thought about that hostility isn't helping your/our case right now? Seriously!

Not a single posting of you guys has helped them with what to actually do. So cut them some slack and help them with complying or stfu.

[flound1129]

{SNIP}

Multipools support so many coins, and every coin has their way of doing things, and we already have such a huge headache from avoiding forks, mandatory updates (across 40 wallets!!) that when a coin comes along and is like "Hey now you also need custom code, or a stratum update" it throws quiet the fork in to our operations. We don't follow your coins directly (at least I don't) but we are more than happy to comply and make sure your eco system is working-- just make it easy and clear for us to do so, because we have to do it across MANY MANY coins every day.

That's like complaining that you run a travel agency and each airline has different policies and keeping up with them is SUCH a burden. I mean, isn't it kind of obvious that dealing with dozens of coins is going to be challenging?

No, it's not like that at all.  The masternode payments code does not belong in the mining software, and should not depend on the mining software.  It's making an issue for pool owners where there should be none.

[camosoul]

The whole multipool argument really only tells us that they deal with a lot of cut-and-paste shitcoins... They're all the same. Same codebase. Different name. Maybe there is a way to make integration easier, but getting a bit lazy just because the clones are clones is not DRK's fault for not being just another shitcoin clone.

Both arguments are valid, but the multipool peoples' argument is a lot less so... Yes, it's harder for them. But, especially when they're writing their own custom software, you'd think they wouldn't need hand-holding... Makes a man raise an eyebrow...

Could they get a little more of a helping hand? Yes... They have a "false sense of workload" based on the reality that most coins are shitclones and there isn't much to do when they're all the same old shit, different name... Do they NEED or DESERVE a helping hand? Not really... It just shines a light on two problems; lots of shitclones and lulled into a false sense of workload due to it... and this shines a light on the fact that DRK is not a shitclone. Does this mean DRK should make no effort? Of course not. "We didn't start the fire" is no excuse for standing by and watching it burn...

Some aspects of DRK could be improved, no doubt. There's a bit of ad-hock to speed up... Could it be exploited? Yeah, that's part of why it's closed-source right now... This shit is too fancy. I doubt there will be an emergency update for exploits, but there certainly will be updated version who's only real purpose is to head them off and to clean things up a bit...

[TheBlackDogeOfWallStreet]

We are adapting.  The point is via lazy coding you are increasing the number of headaches in my life and I have enough already.

+111111

Multipools support so many coins, and every coin has their way of doing things, and we already have such a huge headache from avoiding forks, mandatory updates (across 40 wallets!!) that when a coin comes along and is like "Hey now you also need custom code, or a stratum update" it throws quiet the fork in to our operations. We don't follow your coins directly (at least I don't) but we are more than happy to comply and make sure your eco system is working-- just make it easy and clear for us to do so, because we have to do it across MANY MANY coins every day.

Although I understand the issue: This is what you earn quite some money with. I think it's worth your while

Thanks for giving your best to comply!

All we are asking for is a centralized area with some information regarding this change-- like so some one can Twitter me a link and say "DO THIS" -- we will always do that-- but we've been hunting this information down for like 2 days, with no clear answers. Hell even the other multipool guy didn't know he had to update his stratum-- a lot of the pools don't -- I spoke with them yesterday.

People are just contacting us from your communities telling us to update the wallets and nothing else-- which we have done. We don't follow DarkCoin, we don't know the intricacies of your currency, or what magic joojoo it takes to run. Just send us some clear info, and we will comply, if we can't have that info then we delist because otherwise we're made out to be some fraudsters.

I'm not attacking your community, I have no beef with your coin, or how you guys and your developers chose to run it. But whether you like it or not, pools and multipools are a big part of your ecosystem, and help keep your blockchain secure and moving transactions. Please just give us 1 forum post or a link to a dev saying "for payments to work, you will need to do this, this and this in these methods and or functions and or configs, or you would need to write something that does this specific action." That's it, I don't think it's asking for much.

To the guy with the airline analogy, if some regulation changed with an airline, there would be some sort of instructions that followed, to help airports comply. I don't feel we have received that information, or that information is not in an easily accessible place.

Edit: it was a travel agency, not an airport.

[coins101]

We are adapting.  The point is via lazy coding you are increasing the number of headaches in my life and I have enough already.

+111111

Multipools support so many coins, and every coin has their way of doing things, and we already have such a huge headache from avoiding forks, mandatory updates (across 40 wallets!!) that when a coin comes along and is like "Hey now you also need custom code, or a stratum update" it throws quiet the fork in to our operations. We don't follow your coins directly (at least I don't) but we are more than happy to comply and make sure your eco system is working-- just make it easy and clear for us to do so, because we have to do it across MANY MANY coins every day.

Although I understand the issue: This is what you earn quite some money with. I think it's worth your while

Thanks for giving your best to comply!


@coins101: I don't see the connection between ASICs and soft-forks

Yay!. I'm not invisible.

The thinking goes like this.

Two-step soft forks, the Sporks, are used to prevent problems with hard forks, right? Implement new code, fork it, if it works enforce it; if it doesn't work, use the checkpoint to roll back?

If that is the case, the Nr.1 issue preventing Litecoin and Bitcoin from updating their code base is chaos caused by hard forks. QED, if sporks prevent the risks from hard forks, Evan just save Bitcoin and Litecoin from ASICs as they have the freedom to change their algo with nothing more than a reasonable notice period - say 6 - 12 months of a spork event.

I won a prize recently for laterally thinking. Did I do it again? Did I? Well?  

[flound1129]

{SNIP}

Multipools support so many coins, and every coin has their way of doing things, and we already have such a huge headache from avoiding forks, mandatory updates (across 40 wallets!!) that when a coin comes along and is like "Hey now you also need custom code, or a stratum update" it throws quiet the fork in to our operations. We don't follow your coins directly (at least I don't) but we are more than happy to comply and make sure your eco system is working-- just make it easy and clear for us to do so, because we have to do it across MANY MANY coins every day.

That's like complaining that you run a travel agency and each airline has different policies and keeping up with them is SUCH a burden. I mean, isn't it kind of obvious that dealing with dozens of coins is going to be challenging?

+1

Have you guys thought about that hostility isn't helping your/our case right now? Seriously!

Well since my case is 'this is idiotic' I'm hard pressed to find a way to express that without any hostility.

[thelonecrouton]

Haven't been able to keep up recently.

Sporks: are they a permanent feature of alt-coins? Hard forks can now be replaced by 2-step implementations, including checkpoints?

If so, no more ASICs unless it is voted upon by choice?

Part of LTC price pressure has been said to be down to ASIC miners dumping

https://litecointalk.org/index.php?topic=2327.msg190260#msg190260

BUMP

Can I ask, are Sporks the end of ASICs?

BUMP

Have we Has Evan just saved Bitcoin and Litecoin?

OK, now this is silly. I'm having a bump conversation with myself.

Someone save me.

Did Evan just save Bitcoin and Litecoin from ASICs?

The reality is that any coin, using any algo, can change anyway if the will is there to avoid ASICs. LTC had the chance and made the wrong choice, BTC still could but never will for a whole host of reasons.

DRK, with Evan + team, *is* willing and able to adapt as neccessary.

Sporking might make it easier for other coins, but it's nothing they couldn't have done anyway.

[hartvercoint]

{SNIP}

Multipools support so many coins, and every coin has their way of doing things, and we already have such a huge headache from avoiding forks, mandatory updates (across 40 wallets!!) that when a coin comes along and is like "Hey now you also need custom code, or a stratum update" it throws quiet the fork in to our operations. We don't follow your coins directly (at least I don't) but we are more than happy to comply and make sure your eco system is working-- just make it easy and clear for us to do so, because we have to do it across MANY MANY coins every day.

That's like complaining that you run a travel agency and each airline has different policies and keeping up with them is SUCH a burden. I mean, isn't it kind of obvious that dealing with dozens of coins is going to be challenging?

+1

Have you guys thought about that hostility isn't helping your/our case right now? Seriously!

Well since my case is 'this is idiotic' I'm hard pressed to find a way to express that without any hostility.

I'm not talking about you I totally understand your point. I know you haven't come here to tell people "I'm not complying guys! F U!", but to find a solution. So I don't get why there's so much hate coming your way and nobody's actually trying to help.

[Kai Proctor]

{SNIP}

Multipools support so many coins, and every coin has their way of doing things, and we already have such a huge headache from avoiding forks, mandatory updates (across 40 wallets!!) that when a coin comes along and is like "Hey now you also need custom code, or a stratum update" it throws quiet the fork in to our operations. We don't follow your coins directly (at least I don't) but we are more than happy to comply and make sure your eco system is working-- just make it easy and clear for us to do so, because we have to do it across MANY MANY coins every day.

That's like complaining that you run a travel agency and each airline has different policies and keeping up with them is SUCH a burden. I mean, isn't it kind of obvious that dealing with dozens of coins is going to be challenging?

+1

Have you guys thought about that hostility isn't helping your/our case right now? Seriously!

Not a single posting of you guys has helped them with what to actually do. So cut them some slack and help them with complying or stfu.

What hostility ? Check again Oo Moreover the "lazy coding" part (by flound1129) was hostile so you stfu thx.

[zombie6]

damn this is gonna be a soap opera this month

[camosoul]

We are adapting.  The point is via lazy coding you are increasing the number of headaches in my life and I have enough already.

+111111

Multipools support so many coins, and every coin has their way of doing things, and we already have such a huge headache from avoiding forks, mandatory updates (across 40 wallets!!) that when a coin comes along and is like "Hey now you also need custom code, or a stratum update" it throws quiet the fork in to our operations. We don't follow your coins directly (at least I don't) but we are more than happy to comply and make sure your eco system is working-- just make it easy and clear for us to do so, because we have to do it across MANY MANY coins every day.

Although I understand the issue: This is what you earn quite some money with. I think it's worth your while

Thanks for giving your best to comply!

@coins101: I don't see the connection between ASICs and soft-forks

Yay!. I'm not invisible.

The thinking goes like this.

Two-step soft forks, the Sporks, are used to prevent problems with hard forks, right? Implement new code, fork it, if it works enforce it; if it doesn't work, use the checkpoint to roll back?

If that is the case, the Nr.1 issue preventing Litecoin and Bitcoin from updating their code base is chaos caused by hard forks. QED, if sporks prevent the risks from hard forks, Evan just save Bitcoin and Litecoin from ASICs as they have the freedom to change their algo with nothing more than a reasonable notice period - say 6 - 12 months of a spork event.

I won a prize recently for laterally thinking. Did I do it again? Did I? Well?  

I believe in a much longer-term answer to ASICs; they'll burn themselves out, functionally.

A USB key ASIC that costs under $50 will be the only thing that makes sense, be cheaper and more inclusive than even CPU mining, and no longer be a money hose mentality because they'll reach a tipping point where that just can't be done anymore. Moore's Law will reach a wall that only this kind of IC use would push into.

[TheBlackDogeOfWallStreet]

{SNIP}

Multipools support so many coins, and every coin has their way of doing things, and we already have such a huge headache from avoiding forks, mandatory updates (across 40 wallets!!) that when a coin comes along and is like "Hey now you also need custom code, or a stratum update" it throws quiet the fork in to our operations. We don't follow your coins directly (at least I don't) but we are more than happy to comply and make sure your eco system is working-- just make it easy and clear for us to do so, because we have to do it across MANY MANY coins every day.

That's like complaining that you run a travel agency and each airline has different policies and keeping up with them is SUCH a burden. I mean, isn't it kind of obvious that dealing with dozens of coins is going to be challenging?

+1

Have you guys thought about that hostility isn't helping your/our case right now? Seriously!

Not a single posting of you guys has helped them with what to actually do. So cut them some slack and help them with complying or stfu.

What hostility ? Check again Oo Moreover the "lazy coding" part (by flound1129) was hostile so you stfu thx.

I think you are mistaking hostility for frustration.