[ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency

[Kai Proctor]

We support like 40 coins, all of them have something bubbling, for none of them do we have update stratum code unless it's a new algo. First we were told we just needed to update client, which we complied with as fast as we could. If some one could point to some clear instructions on what needs to be done, we would attempt to comply, but so far nothing (something beyond then just "update NOMP" as we have to write the solution custom ourselves.)

Hi, I have to agree with this, there should be no stratum modifications necessary for the masternode payments, they should be done within the coin wallet code, there is code already out there for this, check freicoin or other coins that have automated donations.

People are going to exploit this to steal masternode payments.  I guarantee it.

I can't see how once it's enforced. Care to elaborate ?

[Drobek]

Thanks for the view from the other side. Yes, the instructions could have been better. On the other hand, the majority of pools managed to implement the MN and surprise surprise - they still mine the coin even when the rate is lower by 20%. However, their compliance is putting them into disadvantaged positions against your pool so it is unlikely this situation will last much longer.
[/quote]

Look we have no problem complying, but 95% of those pools just had to update to the latest version of NOMP (the solution was provided for them) we have to write it custom. We would pay the 20%, and work it in to our formula-- but like I said instructions were not clear, even after we scrubbed through this thread and the darkcointalk one. This is coming from my engineers who spent like the better part of yesterday looking in to trying write in compliance.
[/quote]

Thanks for coming here and clarifying your points, much appreciated. Up until now I was under the impression that greed is the only factor for not paying the MN :-)

[Scriptiee]

We support like 40 coins, all of them have something bubbling, for none of them do we have update stratum code unless it's a new algo. First we were told we just needed to update client, which we complied with as fast as we could. If some one could point to some clear instructions on what needs to be done, we would attempt to comply, but so far nothing (something beyond then just "update NOMP" as we have to write the solution custom ourselves.)

Hi, I have to agree with this, there should be no stratum modifications necessary for the masternode payments, they should be done within the coin wallet code, there is code already out there for this, check freicoin or other coins that have automated donations.

People are going to exploit this to steal masternode payments.  I guarantee it.

I can't see how once it's enforced. Care to elaborate ?

Blocks not including payment or ones attempting to tamper with it will be orphaned as far as I understand.

[coins101]

Haven't been able to keep up recently.

Sporks: are they a permanent feature of alt-coins? Hard forks can now be replaced by 2-step implementations, including checkpoints?

If so, no more ASICs unless it is voted upon by choice?

Part of LTC price pressure has been said to be down to ASIC miners dumping

https://litecointalk.org/index.php?topic=2327.msg190260#msg190260

BUMP

Can I ask, are Sporks the end of ASICs?

[TheBlackDogeOfWallStreet]

We support like 40 coins, all of them have something bubbling, for none of them do we have update stratum code unless it's a new algo. First we were told we just needed to update client, which we complied with as fast as we could. If some one could point to some clear instructions on what needs to be done, we would attempt to comply, but so far nothing (something beyond then just "update NOMP" as we have to write the solution custom ourselves.)

Hi, I have to agree with this, there should be no stratum modifications necessary for the masternode payments, they should be done within the coin wallet code, there is code already out there for this, check freicoin or other coins that have automated donations.

People are going to exploit this to steal masternode payments.  I guarantee it.

Look I didn't mean to come off all hostile, we've been trying to become compliant for the last 2 days or so, but it's becoming frustrating, as everyone thinks we're doing this on purpose, but we're just not finding any clear instructions on getting this done.

Hell the first 3 people that reached out to me all just said update your Drk Coin wallet, which we did, and then people still kept messaging us, so I thought it was a mistake, but people STILL kept messaging us, so I posted on twitter asking WTF, some one FINALLY links me to the DarkCoinTalk thread! Great I thought, I forward it to my engineers, and they come back and tell me that payments have to be manually sent-- or that we would have to write a custom solution on how to do it. Instructions were mostly just to update to NOMP or whatever flavor of Stratum you are using.

So please gentlemen, understand where I am coming from. I'm not trying to steal freaking DRK coins or whatever, we've been trying to become compliant, and if some one can point to some real technical data and say "HERE THIS IS FROM THE DEVS, DO THIS" we will do it, but I have not seen that as of yet.

[flound1129]

Thanks for the view from the other side. Yes, the instructions could have been better. On the other hand, the majority of pools managed to implement the MN and surprise surprise - they still mine the coin even when the rate is lower by 20%. However, their compliance is putting them into disadvantaged positions against your pool so it is unlikely this situation will last much longer.

Look we have no problem complying, but 95% of those pools just had to update to the latest version of NOMP (the solution was provided for them) we have to write it custom. We would pay the 20%, and work it in to our formula-- but like I said instructions were not clear, even after we scrubbed through this thread and the darkcointalk one. This is coming from my engineers who spent like the better part of yesterday looking in to trying write in compliance.
[/quote]

Thanks for coming here and clarifying your points, much appreciated. Up until now I was under the impression that greed is the only factor for not paying the MN :-)
[/quote]

I wasn't even aware stratum updates were required until about 20 minutes ago.  I am asking my developer to merge the changes now.

However, I still think this is stupid and should be done in the wallet code.

[Kai Proctor]

We support like 40 coins, all of them have something bubbling, for none of them do we have update stratum code unless it's a new algo. First we were told we just needed to update client, which we complied with as fast as we could. If some one could point to some clear instructions on what needs to be done, we would attempt to comply, but so far nothing (something beyond then just "update NOMP" as we have to write the solution custom ourselves.)

Hi, I have to agree with this, there should be no stratum modifications necessary for the masternode payments, they should be done within the coin wallet code, there is code already out there for this, check freicoin or other coins that have automated donations.

People are going to exploit this to steal masternode payments.  I guarantee it.

I can't see how once it's enforced. Care to elaborate ?

Blocks not including payment or ones attempting to tamper with it will be orphaned as far as I understand.

Yes. That's why I don't understand his statement.

[Scriptiee]

We support like 40 coins, all of them have something bubbling, for none of them do we have update stratum code unless it's a new algo. First we were told we just needed to update client, which we complied with as fast as we could. If some one could point to some clear instructions on what needs to be done, we would attempt to comply, but so far nothing (something beyond then just "update NOMP" as we have to write the solution custom ourselves.)

Hi, I have to agree with this, there should be no stratum modifications necessary for the masternode payments, they should be done within the coin wallet code, there is code already out there for this, check freicoin or other coins that have automated donations.

People are going to exploit this to steal masternode payments.  I guarantee it.

I can't see how once it's enforced. Care to elaborate ?

Blocks not including payment or ones attempting to tamper with it will be orphaned as far as I understand.

Yes. That's why I don't understand his statement.

Oh sorry, misread your post, thought you asking how enforcement will resolve the issue ... my bad

[coins101]

Haven't been able to keep up recently.

Sporks: are they a permanent feature of alt-coins? Hard forks can now be replaced by 2-step implementations, including checkpoints?

If so, no more ASICs unless it is voted upon by choice?

Part of LTC price pressure has been said to be down to ASIC miners dumping

https://litecointalk.org/index.php?topic=2327.msg190260#msg190260

BUMP

Can I ask, are Sporks the end of ASICs?

BUMP

Have we Has Evan just saved Bitcoin and Litecoin?

[TheBlackDogeOfWallStreet]

Thanks for the view from the other side. Yes, the instructions could have been better. On the other hand, the majority of pools managed to implement the MN and surprise surprise - they still mine the coin even when the rate is lower by 20%. However, their compliance is putting them into disadvantaged positions against your pool so it is unlikely this situation will last much longer.

Look we have no problem complying, but 95% of those pools just had to update to the latest version of NOMP (the solution was provided for them) we have to write it custom. We would pay the 20%, and work it in to our formula-- but like I said instructions were not clear, even after we scrubbed through this thread and the darkcointalk one. This is coming from my engineers who spent like the better part of yesterday looking in to trying write in compliance.

Thanks for coming here and clarifying your points, much appreciated. Up until now I was under the impression that greed is the only factor for not paying the MN :-)


I wasn't even aware stratum updates were required until about 20 minutes ago.  I am asking my developer to merge the changes now.

However, I still think this is stupid and should be done in the wallet code.

Yes please when you are reaching out to pools telling them to update, do more than just telling them to update the client-- a lot of these pools run dozens of coins, and it's impossible to keep up with every single one of them, or what little quirk they need. 99.9% of coin updates require us to update the client only-- that's what we are used to, so that's what we did when we were initially approached.

Some real technical information here would be greatly appreciated-- specifically for pool operators, instead of accusing them of being greedy thieves =/

[flound1129]

We support like 40 coins, all of them have something bubbling, for none of them do we have update stratum code unless it's a new algo. First we were told we just needed to update client, which we complied with as fast as we could. If some one could point to some clear instructions on what needs to be done, we would attempt to comply, but so far nothing (something beyond then just "update NOMP" as we have to write the solution custom ourselves.)

Hi, I have to agree with this, there should be no stratum modifications necessary for the masternode payments, they should be done within the coin wallet code, there is code already out there for this, check freicoin or other coins that have automated donations.

People are going to exploit this to steal masternode payments.  I guarantee it.

I can't see how once it's enforced. Care to elaborate ?

Blocks not including payment or ones attempting to tamper with it will be orphaned as far as I understand.

Yes. That's why I don't understand his statement.

It leaves this open as an attack vector.  If there is any flaw in the enforcement code it can be exploited.  If the code isn't even there yet then it can potentially be exploited right now.

[Scriptiee]

We support like 40 coins, all of them have something bubbling, for none of them do we have update stratum code unless it's a new algo. First we were told we just needed to update client, which we complied with as fast as we could. If some one could point to some clear instructions on what needs to be done, we would attempt to comply, but so far nothing (something beyond then just "update NOMP" as we have to write the solution custom ourselves.)

Hi, I have to agree with this, there should be no stratum modifications necessary for the masternode payments, they should be done within the coin wallet code, there is code already out there for this, check freicoin or other coins that have automated donations.

People are going to exploit this to steal masternode payments.  I guarantee it.

Look I didn't mean to come off all hostile, we've been trying to become compliant for the last 2 days or so, but it's becoming frustrating, as everyone thinks we're doing this on purpose, but we're just not finding any clear instructions on getting this done.

Hell the first 3 people that reached out to me all just said update your Drk Coin wallet, which we did, and then people still kept messaging us, so I thought it was a mistake, but people STILL kept messaging us, so I posted on twitter asking WTF, some one FINALLY links me to the DarkCoinTalk thread! Great I thought, I forward it to my engineers, and they come back and tell me that payments have to be manually sent-- or that we would have to write a custom solution on how to do it. Instructions were mostly just to update to NOMP or whatever flavor of Stratum you are using.

So please gentlemen, understand where I am coming from. I'm not trying to steal freaking DRK coins or whatever, we've been trying to become compliant, and if some one can point to some real technical data and say "HERE THIS IS FROM THE DEVS, DO THIS" we will do it, but I have not seen that as of yet.

We will need info on what your setup is, well someone here will need. I would recommend contacting chaeplin for help. He would be the most qualified person to assist you here really,

https://darkcointalk.org/members/chaeplin.206/ <-- his profile on Darkcointalk

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=247488 <--- his profile on btctalk

[TheBlackDogeOfWallStreet]

I'm thinking that if.....

....if I am reading TheBlackDoge correctly

You run custom pool software - correct

Then getting DRK software to run on your system would be your issue and not a DRK issue

I feel like I'm banging my head up against a wall here--- I'm saying we are trying to comply-- just point us to the technical information-- something beyond than just "update to latest NOMP."

[hartvercoint]

I wasn't even aware stratum updates were required until about 20 minutes ago.  I am asking my developer to merge the changes now.

However, I still think this is stupid and should be done in the wallet code.

Great, thanks for looking into it!


I agree that this could have been communicated in a more transparent way. And I see that stuff like this is a huge pain for pools using custom stratum solutions (i.e. multipools).


@BlackDoge:

I think the magic happens here https://github.com/darkcoinproject/darkcoin-stratum/blob/master/lib/coinbasetx.py#L10 ll. 10-65

[coins101]

I wasn't even aware stratum updates were required until about 20 minutes ago.  I am asking my developer to merge the changes now.

However, I still think this is stupid and should be done in the wallet code.

Great, thanks for looking into it!


I agree that this could have been communicated in a more transparent way. And I see that stuff like this is a huge pain for pools using custom stratum solutions (i.e. multipools).

Then once enforcement starts...its a feature 

[flound1129]

I'm thinking that if.....

....if I am reading TheBlackDoge correctly

You run custom pool software - correct

Then getting DRK software to run on your system would be your issue and not a DRK issue

Introducing a gratuitous incompatibility that makes it harder for pools to mine your coin is a DRK issue as well.

[coins101]

I'm thinking that if.....

....if I am reading TheBlackDoge correctly

You run custom pool software - correct

Then getting DRK software to run on your system would be your issue and not a DRK issue

Introducing a gratuitous incompatibility that makes it harder for pools to mine your coin is a DRK issue as well.

Pools are an adaptation to decentralised crypto? Adapt, n'est-ce pas?

[TheBlackDogeOfWallStreet]

I wasn't even aware stratum updates were required until about 20 minutes ago.  I am asking my developer to merge the changes now.

However, I still think this is stupid and should be done in the wallet code.

Great, thanks for looking into it!


I agree that this could have been communicated in a more transparent way. And I see that stuff like this is a huge pain for pools using custom stratum solutions (i.e. multipools).


@BlackDoge:

I think the magic happens here https://github.com/darkcoinproject/darkcoin-stratum/blob/master/lib/coinbasetx.py#L10 ll. 10-65

Alright cheers, I'm forwarding this to my engineers to see if we could make this work.

[flound1129]

I'm thinking that if.....

....if I am reading TheBlackDoge correctly

You run custom pool software - correct

Then getting DRK software to run on your system would be your issue and not a DRK issue

Introducing a gratuitous incompatibility that makes it harder for pools to mine your coin is a DRK issue as well.

Pools are an adaptation to decentralised crypto? Adapt, n'est-ce pas?

We are adapting.  The point is via lazy coding you are increasing the number of headaches in my life and I have enough already.

[Kai Proctor]

I'm thinking that if.....

....if I am reading TheBlackDoge correctly

You run custom pool software - correct

Then getting DRK software to run on your system would be your issue and not a DRK issue

I feel like I'm banging my head up against a wall here--- I'm saying we are trying to comply-- just point us to the technical information-- something beyond than just "update to latest NOMP."

https://darkcointalk.org/forums/official-developer-thread.15/
https://darkcointalk.org/threads/rc3-relaunch-strategy-and-testing.1482/
https://darkcointalk.org/threads/rc3-soft-fork.1576/
https://darkcointalk.org/threads/please-update-your-darkcoin-clients.1602/